This hearing will look at a range of violent antigovernment actors, movements, and organizations, highlighting recent threats from militia extremists and accelerationists, including the Boogaloo Movement, who seek to accelerate society toward violent collapse. Anything that is threatening institutions, we also look at it. That is what we are doing today. It is incredibly irrelevant to me which groups we look at so long that we are looking at the principal ones that threaten peoples lives. Some of these Extremist Movements stream from ideologies that are decades old. Others are both having new. Others are relatively new. These threats range from decentralized and leaderless accelerationist networks to more structured militia groups. Antigovernment extremism is one of the Common Threads, but we often see overlap with antiimmigrant, antisemitic, antiblack, antimuslim ideologies as well, bringing these extremists into common cause with others who are extremist in nature. We have an opportunity to discuss the current Threat Landscape from these movements so we can develop an understanding of how they have flourished in our communities and in online spaces. We have seen horrific acts of violence. In april, a man in texas was arrested after skimming himself streaming himself on Facebook Live searching for a Law Enforcement officer to ambush. In may and june, a man in california shot and killed a department of Homeland Security federal protective Service Officer and wounded one more, and then went on to kill a Santa Cruz County Police Officer before being arrested. He wrote the word boog in blood after carrying out the second murder. In may, three men were arrested by the fbi in nevada, in possession of molotov cocktails, while reportedly on their way to incite violence at a black lives matter protest in las vegas. In june, a man in oklahoma was arrested and found to be in possession of an illegally modified machinegun, homemade grenades, and molotov cocktails, all of these men appear to be connected to the Boogaloo Movement. The list goes on and on. It is important today that we do not lose sight of how these movements intersect with other popular extremist groups. We are going to be asking some really critical questions today. Number one is what do we do about this. What does Law Enforcement do, what is the federal government do, what should social media do . What do we do in it collaborative way and what we do in a mandatory way . We have a shared responsibility across the public and private sectors. The lives of our lawenforcement officials are on the line. The lives of innocent citizens who are congregating in protests are on the line. I believe in so many ways, the future of this country and sanctity of the constitution is on the line. With that, the chair recognizes mr. Walker. Thank you, mr. Chairman. There is no doubt that across the globe there is an uptick in extremist ideology. Particularly linked to White Supremacy. As the committee created after 9 11, we must stay focused on the continued jihadi threat. We are seeing the adoption of accelerationist rhetoric with call to target government institutions and Law Enforcement for adherence to commit acts of violence as a means of creating further unrest. We have seen this in subpoenas movements, antigovernment groups and environmental organizations. This convergence of violent ideologies results in the sharing of tactics and propaganda and the spreading of misinformation and conspiracies as well as the liberation of celebration of violence. I probably should start with expressing my condolences to the families of david underwood, a dhs protective Security Officer and a deputy that the chairman just mentioned. They were both murdered in the line of duty in may and june. I want to express support for the speedy recovery of their colleagues who were also injured. The suspect believed to be responsible have been arrested and the fbi is conducting an investigation into the links of the possible support for the Boogaloo Movement which is an accelerationist term. We also must review others as the chairman mentioned. I appreciate that. These attacks are on all americans. Groups like antifa, and i know that seems to be a conservative talking point, but its not. The kind of damage they are doing, a reporter sat in my office and i could still see the injuries. There has been a consistent effort by antifa supporters to infiltrate protests to lay siege to government buildings. In portland alone, the police chief has stated that the violence has costed the city tens of millions of dollars. These are the kinds of things that we must stand together regardless of politics. In seattle there is an effort to deny the antifa movement. We need to move forward. The reality is that antifa is not an organization. We understand that. But it is a movement, an ideology, and a call for violent rioting. The people involved in the zones and violence around the city are part of these movements. We can agree that all of these groups, boogaloo, antifa and any other Extremist Movements must be condemned, and i think that is why this hearing is crucial today. These violent extremists on all sides are tending to hijack legitimate protests and interrupt debate on needed institutional reforms. Some are targeting protesters. Some are attacking Police Officers. Many are vandalizing government buildings and others seek to create autonomy zones. We need effort to condemn violence and restore order. I want to thank the witnesses for appearing before the subcommittee today. I look forward to your testimony and i yield back my time. I think the Ranking Member i thank the Ranking Member. The subcommittee will operate according to the guidelines laid out by chairman thompson and ranking number roberts. The chair recognizes mr. Thompson for an opening statement. In chairman thompsons absence, the chair recognizes the Ranking Member, mr. Rodgers for an opening statement. Chairman thompson, i will recognize you for an opening statement. Chairman thompson thank you very much, chairman rose. I thank you for convening this timely hearing today and for your leadership. This committee is known for following the threats wherever they may lead. This hearing provides us with the opportunity to examine the emerging threat from violent antigovernment extremists. I believe todays hearing is the first congressional hearing that focuses on the emerging threat of the accelerationist and i applaud chairman rose for examining this issue. It is important that members and the American Public hear from these experts today to understand those emerging threats. Recent attacks and arrests have showcased the threat from individuals affiliated with the Boogaloo Movement. This loose coalition present an immediate danger to Law Enforcement and the american people. As our experts have shared in their written testimony, this movement is complex and requires a nuanced understanding. The Boogaloo Network appears to be largely antigovernment, constantly changing and drawing followers from the fringes of many different extremist ideologies. The Common Thread is the desire to accelerate society toward a second civil war. That means that many of them are driven to commit violence. It is imperative the department of Homeland Security and other fellow agencies immediately devote resources toward understanding and confronting these emerging threats. I understand that this is a difficult issue, but it is not acceptable for dhs to remain in the dark. Law enforcement officials made a Law Enforcement officials remain a top target of these individuals and extremists which means that it is even more urgent for dhs to produce and disseminate information to state and local Law Enforcement so they can stay ahead of the threat. Federal resources and attention must be appropriately allocated. We need to follow the threat. We should not be swayed by political whims. It goes without saying that Property Damage and any and all violence linked to antifa should be condemned. Public reporting, arrest records, the governments reporting indicate that right wing extremists pose a more urgent threat to americans. We will hear from experts about the threats facing americans. I look forward to the discussion on how the violent fringes of these movements have utilized Online Platforms to their advantage. This has been a major concern of mine over the last congress and one of the reasons i introduced hr 4782, the National Commission on Online Platforms and Homeland Security act. The commission would seek to understand how bad actors, including extremists, exploit Online Platforms in furtherance of violence. This bipartisan piece of legislation was voted out of this committee in october 2019 and awaits action from our colleagues in the energy and commerce committee. This committee will continue to shed light on how social media platforms are exploited and also hold the Companies Accountable when they failed to enforce the policies they have set forth to combat extremists. I appreciate the witnesses joining us today, and again and and again thank chairman rose for convening this hearing today and i yield back. Chairman rose thank you, mr. Chairman. Our first witness is jj macnab. She is an expert on antigovernment extremism. Our second witness is dr. Heidi beirich, cofounder of the Global Project against hate and extremism. She has more than two decades of experience fighting extremism including leading the Southern Poverty Law Center intelligence project. Our third and final witness is jack donohue. He is a former chief of Strategic Initiatives at the new York City Police department. He brings to this discussion his from his experience time as a leader at the nypd. Thank you for your Extraordinary Service for new york city with the men in blue. The greatest Police Department in the world. I will allow each witness to summarize his opening statement. Thank you to the distinguished members of the subcommittee. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to testify today. I am a Research Fellow at George Washingtons program on extremism. The remarks i will express are my own. Im here to talk about the militant segment of the antigovernment Extremist Movement. People who want to change or topple the country by force or a threat of force. Like any large movement, this group goes through cycles and in the months following the 2016 election, altright supremacy groups experienced a meteoric rise. Military extremists either joined these movements or were quiet. They approve of the Current Administration and so their antigovernment rage abated for a time. However, renewed conversations about gun control laws, stress from the pandemic, the mainstreaming of antivaccine conspiracy theories, high unemployment rate, civil unrest in major u. S. Cities, and the extreme divisiveness plaguing the Upcoming Elections have triggered a recent reverb. The movement is not monolithic. The oath keepers membership include Police Officers and military veterans has shifted from armed standoffs to providing support to Small Businesses violating state harm pandemic orders. And organizing armed guards to protect neighborhoods from violence. 3 ers is a hybrid between a Militia Network and a gun club. This group leaves they only needed 3 of americans to overthrow the current u. S. Government. Each subgroup is independent of the others and there is no leadership for structures. It has kept them from becoming a force. The militia is a much mueller much smaller segment of the business. Scattered throughout the country, engaged in armed training, have a relatively organized structure and even though many states prohibit their activities, they offer operate with impunity. The idea of a second American Revolution where armed patriots rise up and overthrow a tyrannical government has been the dream of extremists for decades. Most call this the second American Revolution. Members of the weapons board renamed it the boogaloo which later turned into big luau and big igloo. Supporters were hawaiian shirts under their body armor and the look went viral. Other militants started copying the shirts and jargon. For most it was just an in joke, a tribal aesthetic that separated those who were in the know from those who were not. Most boogaloo members are libertarian anarchists who hate cops. The goal is to hasten the collapse of the government through attacks on police. These are the major players, how they react to Current Events raises many red flags. Im worried that any attempt to pass guncontrol regulation could trigger violence. This could include red flag laws, bans on certain types of rifles or any legislation that is viewed as a foot the door leading to gun confiscation. Another potential issue is the covid19 pandemic which is placing significant stress on extremist groups. If states return to lockdown status, i am concerned that individuals and small groups will lash out quietly against the government, Law Enforcement, medical professionals, essential workers, contact tracers and medical infrastructure. Some militants driven by conspiracy theories have already turned to armed resistance and have taken up guns to protect Business Owners who want to violate stayathome orders. Michigan has been a hotspot for such activity, and in may the state had to cancel legislative sessions because of the threat. I am also concerned for the upcoming election that will spark violent events if the president loses his reelection bid. The risk that worries me most, i am concerned that there will be a shootout at one of the black lives matter protests. There are too many guns at these events held by too many groups with conflicting goals. You can find that those taking takerscan find the oath taking to the streets to protect police or businesses from antifa for when boogaloo joined forces with black lives matter against the police, adding the National Guard and federal agencies and rights the premises groups along with a growing number of leftwing militants and volunteer armed guards, there is the potential street war growing. There are militant groups and individuals willing to shootout or bomb police and protesters just to get that war started so they can use the chaos to accelerate their own plans for revolution. These groups know they need a catalyst, a big event. They need a ruby ridge or waco so they can be the next mcveigh. Most are waiting for the big event but there are some that will do what they have to to force this occurrence. Thank you for your time. Chairman rose thank you for your testimony. We will now recognize mr. Donohue. Thank you very much. Good morning members of the subcommittee and chair thompson. I am john donohue, recently retired threestar chief from the new York City Police department for 32 years of patrol, intelligence and strategy. The opinions im giving are my own. I am testifying to discuss safety concerns and challenges for Law Enforcement made by the growing phenomenon of militia extremism and the power of online movements to influence violent actions domestically. The use of social media is documented. These platforms are mobile and ubiquitous. In the United States, we cherish the right for freedom of speech and assembly and social media has been embraced by many to share ideas and opinions on any topic at any time. What is recently observable from social media data is that there is an exponential growth in participation in the cyber social domain coalesced around a revolutionary and extremist themes at either ends of the ideological spectrum. Those extremists have Law Enforcement squarely in their sites. In the early stages to motivate in the early stages of the isis caliphate to motivate some youth and disaffected to support devices, we know the recruitment started on the social media platforms and moved to encrypted communications to shield criminal conversations from authorities. The same cycle is happening domestically with militia movements on the far right and far left. A report i coauthored in may on the Network Contagion Research Institute shows that on social memes become viral and evolved, plant hateful and revolutionary ideas in the public eye often disguised as inside jokes. The boogaloo code word for revolution is an example of that movement. In protests over the lockdowns, followers played out there joke joke, wearinge hawaiian shirts and carrying semi automatic rifles. Memes shared on the Message Boards game if i assaults on Law Enforcement, encouraging violence through dragon known in the gaming committee. Jargon in the gaming committee. While it appears in a forthcoming report, we had records showing antiplease messaging and other farleft media spaces where they have seen special growths in the most recent period of unrest in america. Exponential growth in the most recent period of unrest in america. These antigovernment messages have broken into Mainstream Media on facebook and twitter. Memes advocating murder of Law Enforcement and slogans found on the internet used by the farleft were scrawled on the defaced monuments and buildings across america. Memes instructing peaceful protests that can be used as tactical subterfuge for violent action are being widely circulated on social media. What is apparent regardless of ideology is that assaults on and the murder of Law Enforcement that occurred during the recent civil unrest were motivated in part by the themes in the memes and the slogans. It is not unusual for police to be the subject of protest. There has always been inherent tension between Law Enforcement and protest because police are the most visible representatives of government and people are protesting against us. Protest activity is a constitutional right. We in Law Enforcement are sworn to protect that right regardless of the contents of the speech or whatever controversy no matter how controversial it may seem with very limited exceptions. Another right is to bear arms. Some states permit open care carry. Others outlaw that practice. Both have withstood constitutional scrutiny with exceptions. I highlight these rights because in real life on the streets when tens of thousands of people are assembled, explaining the finer points of rationality does not work. That is why police are at an disadvantage and challenged when they become the targets of protests, as was more recently observable on the right and left. Intelligence gathering brings its own tension and limitations. Law enforcement needs to prepare for the safety of these incidents. That is smart government and there are safeguards in place to prevent overage. What Law Enforcement needs and what is out there come from an open source. When people use encrypted communications, police have zero visibility into those channels and that is where tactics and opportunities for confrontations are shared. Law enforcement has a tough task when policing protest events in the best of times. When protesters arrived intent on violence and are carrying semi automatic weapons, the stakes grow accidentally. The stakes grow exponentially. Militia members know this and Sees Opportunities to amplify their message through direct confrontation with police. What can be done despite social media efforts to minimize the ability of extremist messages, they persist. Social Media Companies are not in the position to identify those who encourage violence. Law enforcement must remain vigilant. The timeframe may be remarkably short. Law enforcement is the last line of defense against extremist who mobilizes violence and it may be their own lives that they save because they become the ultimate target. The outcomes of a militia and revolutionary extremists online movements are not protectable. The time for acknowledging it and rapidly working to preserve Civil Society is upon us and i thank you for having this hearing. Chairman rose thank you for your testimony. I now recognize dr. Beirich. Rose, Ranking Member walker, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting me to testify today. It is a great honor. My name is heidi beirich, i am the cofounder of the Global Project against hate and extremism. I have been researching for more than 20 years. Todays hearing is of the utmost importance. We face an increasingly violent Extremist Movement composed of an incendiary mix of White Supremacists neonazis and the boogaloo. All are interested in bringing about the collapse of democracy through violence. Isms is what acceleration i is. The accelerators, these extremists are sharing hateful ideologies for correcting internationally in a way that was not before possible. This group is at the defeat of Tech Companies that refuse to express the hate and content on their platforms. The fbi considers the risk of violent as on the same footing as those of Foreign Terrorists like isis. Dhs, the state department, Government Agencies and independent experts all agree farright extremism is a metastasizing problem that this country will be dealing with for the long term. The tragedies in pittsburgh, el paso and christchurch, new zealand are testament to the devastation inspired by these movements abroad. Right now the movements are taking advantage of the pandemic and Racial Justice protests to spread hate about those they blame for covid19 and to attack Peaceful Protesters and Police Officers. It is likely the violence will intensify as we approach the november elections. Descriptions of groups and Movement Overall are laid out in detail in my written testimony , so if i could take the opportunity to offer recommendations. Nothing is going to stop the growth and violent activity if we dont accept that the Online Platforms are driving extremism. Much as hitler used what was then the new technology of the radio to unleash his genocidal views, extremists today do the same with the web. In 2015 the number of perpetrators of terrorist incidents were exposed to violent extremist ideologies almost entirely online rather than in the real world began to rise substantially. That was all forms of extremism. Online platforms are where recruitment occurs and strategy is sophisticated. There is a double standard with how Online Platforms treat content produced by White Supremacists versus islamic extremist. For the latter, deplatforming is the accepted strategy for the latter and practiced by Tech Companies. It would be inconceivable for social media platforms to allow isis propaganda to go unchecked or be monetized, but thats whats happening with White Supremacy. It wasnt until 2017 that Tech Companies began to take hate seriously and ramp up enforcement. It has not been enough. Group,ook civil rights dozens of youtube videos by the International White nationalists network that were monetized. Bringing ad revenue from businesses and Political Campaign ads. Even after notifying youtube, most of it is still up. And they were monday tied earning ad revenue. Ven after notifying youtube most of this is still up. F were to stop the spread of acceleration and violence, the ocial platforms must design policies and enforce them. Bar act proposed by chairman rose would help form baseline of data addressing extremist content and that could e used to push the platforms better. Policies like those proposed by the Civil Rights Coalition i, help if adopted. We also need to address extremism in the military. Too many actively serving troops and veterans in these movements. People to training kill and then releasing them on the public. When it comes to Law Enforcement passage of the act proposed by us to n would help understand how officials are prioritizing and combating these movements. The extreme review act would disseminate terrorist threat assessments of foreign violent extremist groups. Thats good step as well. I would suggest, though that we be very careful in providing legal authorities to Law Enforcement before understanding what the impact might be. Too often when weve increased of federal Law Enforcement they werent used as promise but rather against populations to violate civil rights. Finally sensible gun control like banning ghost guns could be useful in. Closing i would like to thank for taking these issues seriously and for having me here today. Thank all of the witnesses. Hat is the wombed case cenario, what do you think things going . You. S start with i raised the comparisons a violent jihadist recruitment. Its certainly true here. What weve seen is the motivation to violence can moment. T any the concern that we had is that that violence, in triggering the that have happened across heidi ted states, and as mentioned before, mean christ that the to show power of whats happening online and the power of the messages that they make sense to certain people, and to have the we need ability to have visibility into those networks and the people motivated to violence. My biggest concerns are essentially twofold. Described, which is this incendiary situation that find at the recent protests where she said people are armed, eagerly triggered, and police shot dead posters. S against this happened in las vegas. We saw in like pittsburgh, is what im most concerned about. White supremacists who have come to believe they need to use errorism and violence to bring down systems of government. Multicultural democracies, to stop genocide that has motivated most of the motivation that wont go away because demographics are shifting in much of the western world and what they view as a threat and if we dont intercept propaganda is spread on main street platforms where it allows for recruiting im just next christ he around the be corner anywhere. Here or abroad. Facing an uphill battle. Youve got social media mormans here people can basically post propaganda. They recruit. Recruiting ively younger male members. From that point on they move into private groups and places and from there they herry pick who they think are serious actors and move into other places. Trying to police this i think would be impossible. Got rid of the bigger groups, bigger propaganda groups an endbook you would put to it. I dont think there is a large risk of these groups ever coming and forming a private army but im very concerned terrorism. Cell as i put in my earlier testimony, protestors are at risk. Are at risk. Rs infrastructure. I know that in las vegas one of down didts was to take grid. The power grid during a protest o that they could then fire on protestors, bomb protestors, and the chaos would be horrible dark. E it would be pitch so i think there is this mass casualty thats an issue. Dont think it will be large scale. I dont think it will be coordinated too much in the but i think the possibility for someone to have learned, for example, from the shooter, getting up igh and shooting down into a crowd is a very big concern. Thank you. Youre up, my friend. Mark thank you, sir, i want to donohue if i. Could, please. With over three decades of nypd unookly e you are qualified to talk about why Law Enforcement is a common target violent extremist groups. Can you add to the testimony ouve already provided about why this is the case, impact it has on Law Enforcement, and how he current environment is impacting Law Enforcement and their families. Much, ranking ery member walker. In addition to what i had said prepared remarks and in my testimony, the effect and impact on Law Enforcement is great. Hat weve seen are attacks sensational, to true intention is to attack the most visible arm government, which is police. And that impact on law the last month nd a half or so has been dramatic. There is always a concern both out, from a, how to they continue to respond attacks on lawve nforcement, whether just the physical or the emotional reality that winds up taking and with Police Officers sheriffs around the country due o those long hours and being exposed repeatedly to the negative media engine thats on it. The reason i say is because, we, sheriffs, cers and Law Enforcement, are the most visible representatives of the government, and we always look whomever is rm of being protested against. Nd most importantly, its against the police. You mentioned upcoming wing groups eft anarchists. Are you looking at violence and destruction linked to various or extremist that is has occurred over the past few months . I dont want to tip my hand the research is complete in my aid what i said written remarks, and both in my testimony, that there has been exponential growth in both far left anarchists social media participation. Antipolice and antigovernment. All right. Go to, i on i want to believe its ms. Mcnabb, you worried, cautioned or i believe was your terminology, legislation, if any Gun Legislation was passed or if the reelect id not President Trump you were concerned, i guess, of various Different Levels of civil unrest. You might have even used like a war on the streets. S that just something youre seeing from your research or just your concern. A little plain that bit. Sure. Those are two different issues. Reelection nd the of President Trump. Gun control has been a hot issue extremism vernment for decades. Thats always been a concern. It was one of the factors that mcveigh to move forward, with the restriction on assault rifles. Button. Ot its one of the very few things we can all agree on. Things that he few can bring them altogether. There is some proposed virginia at the beginning of the year at a gun it. Ly to protest ordinarily a rally with guns is going to draw 200 to 500 people. This particular rally brought in 22,000. And most gun ue, owners are not violent. Most gun owners are not there are a ut number in the antigovernment extremist world who talk about, to happen,ng this is going to happen, i am going to unleash. Donald trump is a second issue. A lot of these guys have been very pleased with donald trump, you see the maga hat and trump signs. They talked about civil war for years. I wondered if there was anything that would expedite this. Your testimony touched on direct targeting of Law Enforcement. How can we best show support for Law Enforcement, they brought additional training tools and authorities. I would like to start with miss burchett. First of all, these movements. Dozens of Law Enforcement officials across the United States. It is the first line level of attacks. With these movements. And the threats Law Enforcement face. And the Racial Justice, with these folks. When it comes to Law Enforcement, and hand dancing authorities, for genetic terrorism statute, and to International White supremacy networks. I do worry deeply about the implications of the tools that are not used in the right way and i talked about study but these things should be discussed and on the table. I will yield back since i am over the time and give the answers and responses, thank you. I recognize the chairman of the school committee. I think the witnesses for their expert testimony. One of the challenges we have been working with is how we assume enhanced responsibility with managing content with civil rights and civil liberties. Some of the things we see being pushed out further enhances the malicious and other extremists to care for their message and i will talk to each witness to counter it. To what extent should we hold those companies responsible for the content on various platforms. If you want to start off and then we will go to miss burchett and miss mcnabb. Thank you for the question. In my prepared testimony to speak about the power of the social media platforms to serve as an opportunity to share ideas and increase them, in a speech that is being shared on a number of those that provoke the assaults taking place on Law Enforcement and jeopardizing others that are not involved in the protest, the extent to which social Media Companies monitor that speech and ask their communities, social community itself to help with the platform has gone in the right direction. For each of those extremists beach, or videos you have seen being shown altering what other people are saying and amplifying negative messages becomes a complication. Part of it in the communities in the platforms themselves in coordination with the companies to police them internally. Its not a question whether police, Law Enforcement can do that is not possible. The people who are using it has got to follow a little on them as well is the companies. Doctor burchett. I mention permission to look into this. The process that has gone on for too long as civil rights organizations, criticizing Tech Companies in public and having incremental moves to improve the situation, to clean these companies up, if facebook can submit itself to a civil rights addict which has major problems on this front, this strategy as much as it brought them the little ways, to Call Companies to account for what was in terms of service and how they are enforcing those terms of service. Most claim not to host a lot of aspects of White Supremacy, dozens of neonazi bands recently. Investigative powers in some way to ask about procedures, what they are doing, how they are doing it and raise the bar as we understand it, modeled on what the European Union has done which is create monitoring exercises for outside actors and what is going on with hate crimes that push the Tech Companies to do better. Something like that would be good. One last note of caution, shouldnt be up to civil rights organizations that are small and underfunded that have to play this role is asking too much. And organizations chase the news, and facebook comes in. The news doesnt know whats going on, i spent a lot of time developing contacts in these, what they post is shockingly bad because the news, and i go to facebook to see who is claiming credit. Lets get the kill rate up. I will go to Facebook First and foremost. It isnt really a movement, it is a dress code, a way of talking, it is jargon. People who belong to it came from other extremist groups usually on facebook. Might have been White Supremacy, they picked it up somewhere and donned that hawaiian shirt and treat it as a separate movement and ignoring underlying areas they came from. 551,000 followers, pretty violent in the comments. I can report this to facebook and never had one deleted. Ive had Death Threats that were quite explicit. I can report them and nothing happens. A lot of attention paid to the social media company, they dont have incentive to do anything at all. It is not up to civil Rights Groups or the news to monitor all of these things so there has to be some external group from committee or something that can provide accountability and keep an eye on it. We are taking the leadership on this. It is real concerning because as you said, chief donahue and others, as long as i am making money off of this product it is hard to pull back. If you will remember we asked a simple question about how much are your Revenue Streams devoted to managing content. It was almost like i dont believe you asked that question and all we are trying to do, if you are serious about it, without having government come in and run a private business we have an obligation to the public to make sure these Companies Just cant monetize hate and other things in freespeech. I yield back. Thanks for having this hearing. Im in michigan, i began the issue of extremism and hate groups and incidents on the rise, with the coronavirus lockdown, we had significant repeated protests in lansing, michigan, protesting on all sides, protesting the lockdown governors put in place but protesting in response to the killing of george floyd and we have seen an increase in the state of michigan in the last year and a half in instances of hate whether it is graffiti, violence, etc. One of the things i am concerned about is since the lockdown started, we see the presence of a number of groups, 27 hate groups in the state of michigan, one is on the rise, the proud boys, chief donahue, if you could speak in any way they are putting signs on top of their cars, wearing vests that indicate proud boys and theres a discussion in the district whether they are a hate group, can you talk about what you know about them . I would have to deter. Perhaps one of my fellow panels . I would be happy i was working at Southern Poverty Law Center, we added the organization to the list of hate groups largely on the basis of antimuslim thinking. The proud boys in some ways were a forerunner to the activism we are seeing in the Boogaloo Boys. It is a group that is pretty militant, lots of inside jokes, they are showing up at places like these protest movements and something to be concerned about. The Canadian Military bandits members for being part of the proud boys, a sense of how curiously another government is the organization. See if jay jay agrees with me but the problem right now for the violence seems to be folks connected to that, there are 7 different plots involving Boogaloo Boys that could have led to a terrible situation in las vegas. That would focus on them more. Very specifically we had a march 30 first protest in front of the Lansing Police location in response to the George Floyd Murder but there were a number of armed men who showed up at that protest, didnt have any incidents but they were photographed at the scene, what we can expect from folks on the ground here. The problem is they are not a cohesive movement. You could have Boogaloo Boys who are White Supremacists and want to harm the george floyd protesters, they are antipolice, not racist and siding with the protesters, george floyd protests. You can have two groups shooting at each other. So being able to see the hawaiian shirt you cant prejudge what they want to accomplish. And and instance of hate, and you see these groups talking online whether it is graffiti and nonviolent incidents. And my testimony talk a little bit, what you are talking about is the viral nature of means, that people are creating and sharing and people modify and shift their dialogue from something that may have been an inside joke or something funny and then showing things, talking to specific instances more recently where police were involved, acab is one of them but that turned into viral means about how to turn that into things that, there were means that were turned into police cars on fire and it was morphed in that meme. And that is how that happens. Thank you very much, mister chairman. I am sorry, folks can hear me and see me. We are suffering from being on the epicenter from what we experienced from covid19. This is an important hearing. We see these kinds of intrusions in opposition to the vietnam war and other incidents that we have indulged in. Im interested in asking the witnesses what would be the ultimate results of dealing with Fringe Groups for important protests where people are protesting, from their belief in democracy. And what is directed to these elements directly . Legislative fixes continuing and feel site. I particularly speak about boogaloo trial boys and other groups that have been known to do this in other eras of the history of the United States. We will start with you. Certainly. The end result, we all believe in constitutional democracy and the republic and the billing to protest with righteous rage is important and this is petitioning the government. What we are seeing, saying that what we are seeing is violence coming out of peaceful protests or being usurped at peaceful protests where people petition government for the right types of change for acceleration purposes. And civility is the thing we need to have it protests. That is lacking in many interests when we have acceleration tests show up with guns intent on violence and occupation whereas the righteous rage that is shown so we can have change in government where it is appropriate as opposed to violent revolution is what we are talking about and that is where police are in the headlines. We need to learn from our past and our mistakes. We need to move beyond that. There is a path forward but not through violent insurrection. Miss barrett . Thank you. Doctor barrett. If we dont do something to address the spread of this material online, the rise of these movements with research and oversight etc. I think what we are facing is more masked terrorist attacks like we saw in el paso after walmart not just in the United States or other countries because White Supremacy is flourishing abroad. We will see more rise in hate crimes like weve seen as hate speech against asians and jews in relationship to covid19 and the attacks have risen. We will see more terrorists taking advantage of current problems whether that is directly targeting protesters which already happened, killed by members of Extremist Movements but other scary things happening like neonazis who claim that they will use people infected with covid19 to infect others. This is a scary thing, a huge amount of people unfortunately who do not accept multicultural democracies and dont like these systems and dont like our changing demographics and are willing to use violence to stop it. Thank you. Mister donahue . I went first . Mister mcbeth . My biggest fear is there will be acts of terrorism at active protests places that will put a damper on people willing to go there, make people afraid to go into the streets and protest and that is terrible for democracy. There are waitll too many guns that protest events held by people with differing views and a lot of paranoia, and an aggressive one and you never know who is who until the shooting starts, terrified theres going to be a shootout at more of these events. That is a dreadful situation. It is difficult to stop the flow of these groups if they have a voice but there is no counter voice. The Research Memo is leaked before we know what the government you is, some form of public papers and how they are dangerous and who they target. Looking for information that should be public information. One quick question to doctor barrett very quickly. This is important information. What i got from this is Domestic Intelligence is important to inform us to protect our citizens. We have seen homeowners stand in front of their homes with guns misinterpreting protesters. How deep should we begin to assess hate speech and attitudes legislatively within hate crime bills so many years ago. We need to modernize our perception of how we interact so different groups are not demonized. Im asking doctor barrett this question. These people have First Amendment rights but i do think congress has oversight responsibility to find out what the heck is going on in the social media world on this front. If companies are allowed to write their own terms of service it seems to me that our government has a right to find out whether they are being enforced, how they are enacted. We dont live in the same world where peoples a terrible thing about black people are jews or muslims that only carried to a few other people. Now millions of people are potentially the target. Some of them eventually committed that online. That is where it starts and somebody needs to pressure the companies. Thank you, mister chairman, and members of the full committee. I thank you for this hearing, very important. Thank you for your extraordinary, welcome to the second round of questions. Chairman, this is still a panel, some quick responses here. Each of you highlight extremist content and imminent violence on social media, that is important to the chairman as well. Mister donahue calls for creation of social media norad version of something explain what access and authorities you think the government or individual Law Enforcement agencies the authority to do this. No pun intended but miss mcnabb, we start with you. I hesitate to give police more authority to monitor and review things said by citizens it is a problem area, it can be abused. We are still on this left right idea where we should be looking police have a little bit of a blind spot for rightwing they dont have for left and they have to be look at rightwing more than left at this moment. Can you impact that a little more where they have a blind spot . Look at any video of a street protests in portland or seattle. A line of Police Officers celebrity leftwing protesters and rightwing protesters. If you watch the Police Officers have their back to heavily armed people standing behind them and facing leftwing with the ascension the leftwing is going to harm them whereas people standing behind them have rabid antipolice ideas as well. A number of Police Officers with 3 tattoos, these are extremist groups. Police need to be aware that some of these extremist groups want to kill them and that is not really coming through. There needs to be a countervoice, information coming out of Homeland Security or fbi, explains these are the violent groups, police have some ability to discern rightwing protesters from rightwing extremists. It is a problem. I spent the better part of 20 years at the Republican Administration and Democratic Administration tried to convince federal Law Enforcement that the threat from rightwing extremists should not be abandoned, after 9 11 people were horrifically concerned about al qaeda, isis, that is still important but looking at rightwing extremism was essentially dropped, there was a division of people who created intel on rightwing extremism that was shut down nearly years of the obama administration. It would be very helpful to find out exactly what the federal government is doing and what authorities they have when it comes to rightwing extremism. Directing extremist content and violence on social media as a whole whether it is the left or the right as far as working on tools or access authorities should have been doing so. Do you have anything to speak of that . I say this because the facts are right now that rightwing extremism is the bigger problem. If we were talking the 1960s i would not debate whether there was rightwing violence but the focus has to be there. That is where the deaths are coming from. It could change tomorrow but right now that is the problem and that needs to be battled in terms of online space. Mister donahue . I think now side i hate to use that as the example but no one has a monopoly on hate or a monopoly on violence. There are authorities that exist within the federal government, the attorney generals guidelines on Domestic Intelligence. There is the fbi Domestic Intelligence operations guide and might form a position in the nypd, we are under federal Court Monitor ship for the types of intelligence gathering we have engaged in in the past and in my prepared testimony i said there has been overreach. Having been an Intelligence Officer i understand the importance of it and how we can help prevent violence, injury and death. Molotov cocktails being thrown at Police Officers and Police Officials being beaten over the head, sustaining serious injuries, when looking at the events that happened in california, the deaths you mentioned earlier, sheriffs deputies are incredibly painful for Law Enforcement to see and we need to have support through dhs and the air intelligence authorities at Regional Intelligence Center level. Without the norad type of broker ship, more conversations, with the cybersocial donating. Expanding programs, encouraged by these activities, we have an in person hearing to get an update on that work. My time has expired on one question. I appreciate and yield back. That is something that we should absolutely pursue. It is clear that extremism is threatening the lives of Law Enforcement officials and you and i have made a commitment to politicize our efforts. Extremism is affecting peoples Constitutional Rights to congregate, this extremism is undeniably amplified. To our witnesses, if congress does not do anything to crack down on what is happening are we putting the lives of Law Enforcement officials and lawabiding americans unnecessarily at risk . The answer is yes. It whether it is longterm remains to be seen, groups build and build without any dampening effect and engage in random acts of violence and they may turn out, we are looking at mass casualties. It could be protesters, cops or medical workers or anybody. Whether it is chaos these groups will thrive, do what they have to do to bring chaos to the situation and so i think if you do nothing people will buy. I agree with jj. If you do nothing, what is leading to this proliferating, we will have what jj described. It is very clear the tactics and rhetoric is being turned up and we are watching and need to acknowledge what is going on, Congress Needs to act. Politicians get locked in my new sure. We have a group of experts of bipartisan support with stature and expertise, they are unanimous in the fact that if you do not act to address the rapid increase of extremism in america and the ways in which their activity is amplified on social media if we dont have the courage to act, Law Enforcement officials and lawabiding americans will buy it. We have no excuse. I hope we can put hyper politics aside, it is signed into law, democrats and republicans have to agree on something. The line of questioning in my first questioning, a highranking Police Officer achieved for many years, how something goes, and inside jokes more extreme on the internet. Can you talk about the latter escalation when it starts to become vandalism and harassment and potentially violent. You talked about there is a ladder, a road that people travel before they perpetrate real violence. And walk us through what that looks like in a ticktock way. The in ij a couple years back. The potential risk factors from radicalization to violent extremism in the context. And were seeking violent extremism abroad. And what other experts have weighed in on. And want to belong, people who desire action or adventure, people with serious grievances but feel under threat, and us versus them attitude, those are part of the toxic stew that contributes to radicalization, people online help support identifying those moving from radicalization of thoughts to motivation to extremism and violence. We said prefor in our prepared testimony that time frame with what happened at the synagogue in pittsburgh that murderous rampage went from a web posting moments before entering, going in to conduct those murders posted online. The time frame from left of action to right of action is very very short. It requires observation for many. I yield back. Thank you. The questioning, doctor baer, i believe it is important for the government to have as part of it certain expanded resources to mitigate the intense dangers evidenced in this hearing. The social media right before the synagogue killing. Black lives matter and the movement is a civil rights movement, a Generational Movement that has drawn the attention of the nation, 60 of the American Public, not latin, not white, but all americans understand black lives matter. Social media, lack of understanding and lack of presence in the government looking at these accelerators can interfere with the election, be dangerous to those going to vote in order to vote for something catastrophic. What is your response to the importance of the government using resources understanding and being able to move into this difficult time in democracy. It has been an important point, the justice department, black lives movement is a particularly target of these organizations. If youre a white supremacist you dont care about Racial Justice and these are people you want to stop from exposing their views and reforming american democracy in a positive direction. The government needs to Pay Attention to this. The Law Enforcement investigative agencies and so on need to be watching these movements very carefully, monitoring what they are getting into violence in online space, working with academics and others who study these movements to keep on top of these trends and bring oversight to online space to pressure the companies to be better on this front, they claim to take the material down and keeps popping up. We have to be on it in the month leading up to the election. In 2018 for terrorist attacks in a month including the tree of life synagogue attack. Reporter miss mcnabb, in terms of the actions in 2018 which allows certain candidates to take advantage of what is going on or attempting to be going on in this country. The Second Amendment has been used as an instigator to divide people. No one challenge the Second Amendment in the United States congress, to amend the constitution. This mcnabb, what role do guns having the provoking of the Second Amendment along with potential hate speech impacting the elections, homeport it is for Government Resources and understanding to be played into this and a real response to gun safety laws that were promoted. Lost the connection for the last 5 minutes and logging back in. What role will guns play in approaching elections for the provoking of the Second Amendment, as an excuse for those who want gun safety. All these issues provoking in 2020. With these components. For terrorist acts, skewing people to believe a gun toting law and order as opposed to someone who wants to bring the nation together. Adding to the approach to disrupt peaceful demonstrations. The ordinary person does not have. They are using guns to intimidate and in worstcase scenario use their guns to kill. The big loser rested in las vegas brought accelerant, a car bomb and another one, wanted to blow up a hospital. Not just guns, guns are visible and very intimidating. If anything will cause professors to be afraid to go out it is the presence of a large armed group. Chairman, it is clear that this hearing is vital for actions that should be taken, in particular dealing with actions by the government that sit idly by, they cant be leaning and giving indications of one group over the other particularly Peaceful Protesters, trying to have something of sorts dealing with particularly the Jewish Community and i know we are in covid19 but i look forward to moving on these issues before the november election, we need to take a strong stand. I yield back. It is clear that there is a massive intersection between protecting Law Enforcement officials, protecting millions of people to be heard as they call for Racial Justice in this country and our constitution to be upheld. Protecting allamericans, i yield back. I think the witnesses for their questions. Members of the subcommittee may have additional questions for the witnesses, respond expeditiously, without objection the committee record shows it is open for 10 days. There being no further business be subcommittee stands adjourned. Live tuesday on the cspan networks the house continues work on fiscal year 2021 defense programs and policies bill. At 9 am eastern on cspan, 9 30 on cspan2 Maryland Governor larry hogan along with formers fda commissioner doctor Scott Gottlieb discussed marylands coronavirus response. The Senate Returns at 10 am for work on their version of the defense programs and policies bill. At 10 am on cspan 3 a house subcommittee looks into the development of a covid19 vaccine. Witnesses include cdc director doctor julie representing merck and representatives from several pharmaceutical companies with at 1 4 05 pm joe biden speaks on the coronavirus pandemic and economic recovery from newcastle, delaware. It to 30s subcommittee investigates covid19 scams. Now the House Small Business Committee looks at proposals for aiding Small Businesses impacted by the coronavirus pandemic. They discussed the need for further stimulating Small Business recovery and how the pandemic affected minority owned businesses and helping them gain access to muchneeded capital. From earer
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