All to be with you to celebrate this tremendous new book. The book is asia new geopolitic geopolitics. Book isk at an important time about the reshaping that is going on across the indo pacific reason. Its also the author of another great book right behind me talks about the end of the age century. Misha is why the most prolific i from the region just do it i did set up a google alert for what ever her essays are published. You will get it right away. Also hopes of a wonderful podcast that he does with john you on the pacific century. And of course the Asian Pacific reason as we cso many developments ongoing whether its from north korea or the latest aggressive actions of the Chinese Communist party. We could not have a more timely discussion about this vitally important region. And then joining us to facilitate this discussion as a brilliant scholar in her own right doctor nadia shadow is a senior fellow at the hudson institute. And as Deputy National security adviser or strategy in the Trump Administration nadia was instrumental in what i think was the most significant ship since the end of the cold war and that is the recognition that china is a strategic rival in the policies of the Chinese Communist party pose significant threat not just to the United States and her interest in the region and globally it puts all three into open society nadia its great to have you here to facilitate this discussion. Enter kick it all off we have congressman Mike Gallagher who is done a wonderful job serving this country as a congressman from the eighth district of wisconsin. Prior tubing at congressman which again hes there on capitol hill in 2016, he served his country with distinction as United States marine corps officer. Mike has a distinguished background as a scholar as well as a graduate of princeton purred he has a masters and phd in International Relations from georgetown university. Mike i will just say i have fond memories of when i first recruited lieutenant gallagher to serve on an Important Mission as you would just returned from iraq. Like it everything you did you exceeded all expectations. Mike, she of soon learn if you havent learned from these introductory remarks, its emerging as one of the most thoughtful Young Leaders in the area of Foreign Policy and intelligence. Id like to call on congressman gallagher to please kick us off. So thank you for that kind introduction. And thank you to misha for asking me to it join you this afternoon. When i was in previous life i worked for him if you see me break out in a cold sweat at any point during these remarks, i still feel like a Second Lieutenant when ever a hang run hr i get very nervous around hi him. I can hear his voice booming in my head, it might, brother, youve got to hurry up. Also hr hired me back then because i was a middle east specialist. In many ways ive been catching up and mishas work and scholarship has been a critical part of that. There is much in his compelling new book that we should i look forward to talking about today hr writes in his forward, spin warning of the communist partys belligerent behavior but its only for a long time but its only been in the past few years that these warnings have become mainstream. Ive spent a great deal of time in congress wondering why exactly that is the case. Why did it take us so long to wake up . What is it about the present moment that has awakened to the western world to the threat posed by the Chinese Communist party prayed so in search of answers because we have been trapped in our very basements through the last few months i recently sat down and watch the 2017 classic film wolf warrior to. The highest grossing chinese film of all times. For those who are fans of this film you note at the climax who was an american mercenary is baghdadi is about to kill the hero who is a special ops soldier. Baghdadi attempts to jam a knife into his throat he gloats and said people like you will always be inferior to people like me so get used to, get used to it. Spoiler alert mike van turns the tables around and stabs them to death it was the use the ebola to kill them and it was a ebola that was used to kill fiance originally. Sorry i just wrote it for a prey to the original wolf lawyer this was satisfy get familiar ending because that first installment ended with another american mercenary this time and at u. S. Navy seal with a british accent named tomcat. After trading multiples tablets tomcat takes a seemingly helpless while holding a bowie night to his 30 rips a patch off his shoulder the chinese flag in the words and say i fight for china. And he mocks them for being willing to die for his country. But of course the tables are turned yet again and our hero manages to stab him. Surely after the commanding general of the chinese unit suddenly sums up the movies message by saying those who challenge chinas resolve will have no place no safe place to hide. I think there is a lot to dissect in these movies that may seem like an even more cartoonish of a michael date movie here in america. In his chapter on the new china rules, misha offers which something that could be ripped straight from a wolf warrior strike and shed fight team. He says quote with chinas new strength comes a bare knuckle abusiveness combined with an unexpected sense of insecurity. It deems increasingly clear that beijing expects the west to change how it thanks and acts, engage in selfcensorship and even punish our own workers for defending china. Of course weve seen this phenomenon play out in spades with the diplomats have adopted wolf lawyer diplomacy throughout the coronavirus crisis. Responding to the general secretary desire for responding with more fighting spirits and implants wolf warrior diplomacy has seen this often ham handed it often comical as those in the wolf warrior movies. We are still in the middle of this plot, early returns and Public Opinion suggests that wolf lawyer diplomacy may be backfiring in your particular comment further turning Public Opinion against the party. I would submit it may be popular domestically within china. What we are seeing today is the product of recent events colliding with the long running trend. Thats of course the cover up the dove the coronavirus outbreak in these subsequent wolf lawyer attitude that one a few fans abroad. The wolf wore attitude is not brandnew the first movie came out in 2015 and two american administrations in a row across both Political Parties have released strategies that have rightly with the indo pacific gnome with the urgency in the strategic scent that hr and nadia put together. I give them incredible credit for the phenomenal work leading to the National Defense strategies. I tell you some who works on these issues on every day in congress and the countries very politically provided im struck by the amount of consensus on the basic premise of those documents. Are not necessarily taking issue with the premise of his grand strategy with nadia. Luckily we have the work of insightful and clear eyed scholars to thank for that. For waking us up the challenge we face from the Chinese Communist party and the fact that we have a new direction and u. S. Foreign policy. It will take a long time for us to figure out how to navigate this new set of geopolitical challenges and all the different crosscurrents that we navigate around for decades to come so misha thank you for your work thank you for not firing me over a decade ago really excited for this discussion im honored to be working with you on this in congress . So thank you for those great introductory remarks. To our viewers this could not come at a more important time. What weve laid out this diplomacy and approach i think the pla and misha were anxious to hear your thoughts are on it. Its why were such a dangerous. Now. Across the pacific so for our viewers, what were going to do now is going to do a facilitate discussion led by doctor schadler with some insights from these superb essays in the book. We will facilitate that discussion with purpose and of gallagher until 45 past the hour in the meantime send me your questions i will read them as the discussions going all synthesize those as best we can in the final 15 minutes i will post to doctor osler and some of the questions from reviewers without further delay thanks again congressman for those great introductory remarks i will now turn it over to dr. Schadlow. Select think every much of the pleasure to be here this afternoon its great to be back with old friends. Thought i would start because i think congressman gallagher needs to depart a little earlier so misha if you dont mind ill have a couple questions to him and then will turn to me she prayed doing to say however, mike you have proven my point i should go wrote an article without having to fluidly recount movie lines. And plots. Too literally make it in the National Security import and transform policy fields any of doubt it again. You go forward youll see how awesome thats actually important its usually to the godfather. So mike i would like to ask a couple of questions. In the past couple of months youve been really busy at home writing a few really great and interesting things. One talks about the problem of reciprocity and that u. S. China relationship. Think of that point he talks about how twitter, as a platform, they were using twitter here in the United States as a platform. But there were rules and regulations that prevented its use in china itself. Could you talk a little bit about that . And second i would like you to comment a little bit more about your mowers recent that talked about the possible cold war between the u. S. And china. There is some criticism of that i think a couple days later, bob selleck wrote a letter to the editor he found the term not helpful. Thought it might be interesting to start a little bit with the cold war and the reciprocity. Thanks. So great thanks i do not want to consume time that could be better spent listening to me she was an actual regional specials but to take it to the godfather the middle east is very much like michael corleone in a godfather for it every time i scape it pulls me back in. But on the first question of reciprocity, i recently did an hour long interview with bill bishop whom im sure everyone tuning in this stenosis is the publisher of cynicism has become essential reading for people who Pay Attention to these issues in d. C. He really said something i think is true, these platforms are absolutely essential to the ccp ideological warfare strategy. It is the water in which that strategy swims. And without at that strategy really has a tough time taking hold. So it i suggested after seeing day in and day out go on twitter and suggest conspiracy theories that often were being parroted by the american media, not to be too uncharitable. I wrote a letter to jack dorsey with the senator and suggested a simple rule, a fair rule would be for countries that deny their own citizens access to this platform, i. E. China. They should not be able to propagate conspiracy theories on that platform. Im sure there are unintended consequences to that im not thinking about. Its an area very tricky. Theres a lot of conservative bashing of Media Companies and suggestions we should treat them like content publishers. I think its a bit more complicated than that. I dont think we can sit idly by all this disinformation is being openly injected into our democracy. We just went through a bruising debate years about russian disinformation leading up to an election. This is more pernicious we are in the midst of an election right now. I would be interested on thoughts on how to thread that needle. And for thoughts on a cold warm hope into a better analogy. I think misha what youve written youve been critical of that analogy so i welcome the pushback. My only point is there something in between hot war, particularly nuclear war and status quo, doing nothing, right . In cult gray zone, warfare, we can call lukewarm warfare, i think the cold war analogy is useful. One because it closes into certain similarities with the original cold war the need to reinvent a lot of the National Security apparatuses we built in the old cold war. Have a society effort invest in research and development from a federal level but also clues us into the many, many differences. Foremost among them the fact we were never economically intertwined with the soviet union like we are at the Chinese Communist party. And also just let cold war history as a reference in the peace, Joseph Mccarthy is buried in my district hes in my district hes a second marine Intelligence Officer from wisconsin elected to congress that may be a dubious distinction. That warns us we can go overboard. But as long as we have the capacity for self correction is something we can win. The final thing, sorry to go on but he cant help but think they go on pay tv every day and criticizes cold war thinking and cold war mentality because they dont want the new cold war to end the way the old cold war did. With wii when they lose. I rest my thoughts. Thanks mike prayed thats at perfect opening with history, historian, misha lifted turn to you now the featured guest of the day. So first i loved your book. I would like to say that each of the essays really elegantly crafted they are perfect for both those who are new to the subject as well as experts. Michael howard the famous who wrote about strategy would have been proud you are an example of what he was talking about. So lets start a little bit, michael just on the title of the book, geopolitics tells a little bit about what you mean about geopolitics. As a scene that run throughout the whole book. To think its important for the audience to understand a little bit of what you mean tell us a little bit about niclas as well, he also features and several of the essays. I think that forms a nice framework for understating the rest of the chapters. Thank you. I am happy to do that. I realize now the title of the book probably should have been a wolf warrior geopolitics, i dont know if we could change it but probably not asking represent of gallagher for his thoughts on the title before hand. Before that limit give a few seconds of thanks. Thanks to the Hoover Institution for allowing me to it publish the book. To go with the book of essays which a lot of people dont like. Tom gilligan who is the director and very supportive of this, chris and his entire team, this is my third publisher and this is the best experience ive had publishing a book. The book is beautifully done as a peace its nice to hold. Erin wicks are and her team has put the word out i really appreciate. Halley Neal Ferguson who kindly wrote such an excellent forward that according to this context of where we are today and i appreciate him taking time of course all of you guys were coming on i know how busy you are unrepresentative gallagher not only helping run the country worried about very impending wonderful family news that will be coming so everybodys busy im glad you took time. Its important. Its important for those in asia for decades have waited for. Now its here its a little bit like the dog catches the car. What do you do now because everybody is focused on and a way that you were a lonely voice in the wilderness. One of the ways its helpful for me to it think about is this concept of geopolitics. Represent of gallagher talked about the water they would swim and we assist women geopolitics we would think about all the time in relation to our strategy our goals our desires are with the world should look like. And then at the end of the world were redrafted just like we folded up Strategic Air command and said okay we dont need it anymore. I think part of it was the end of history, the idea we were end at history the idea that we did not have to really think anymore about a Global Challenge or different areas of the world. I think also some of it may have been related to things both hr and Micah Gallagher went to the revolutionary military affairs are we thought we can project power anywhere around the globe easily with precision we dont have to think about geography there are things that made us forget why geography is important. Geopolitics i want to have a distinction from geo strategy is very simple it is the influence of geography on political and International Relations or conversely how Foreign Policy interaction geographic space. I think when you think about china theres no other way than to understand that they are looking at the world geopolitically. Were so used to trying what one belt that we are the Second Island change those or geopolitical conceptions for the chinese. But the way they are approaching it is three geo strategy. I know its clunky im not a huge fan of it but that its important distinction to make. I think these days you talk about geopolitics as though that is what ir is its foreign policies geopolitics. Well geopolitics is not necessarily what you do with the un or the hague. But when you think about access to resources we think about lines of communication you think about linking different parts of the world together to benefit your own Natural Power of your thinking how is a geographic state. You do it through geo strategy for those of us on this side of thinking about policy we should be thinking about it in those terms i found it i will wrap appear in this question, i found the start with the germans gave it a bad name theres a long history there. I found niclas pikemen was that gail historian and political scientist geo politician whatever you want to call him unfortunately died during the ward he died very young he wrote a couple incredibly insightful studies on where geopolitical competition played out and unlike mick kander despite his wit