Survivor. We want to thank all of you for your support of their loyalty with their book lovers we be where we are today. And also update our history in case you are curious it is a physical store. It is open repent two weeks. So where a mass can stop by and enjoy the area. Tonight we are excited to have with this Julian Zelizer who celebrating the release of his book burning down the house. Is it professor at Princeton University and is a political analyst. His most recent book a fault lies the history of the United States from 1974 coauthored by our moderator kevin. With Johnson Congress and the battle of the Great Society which is the winner of the prize the best book about congress. Hes been awarded fellowships with the New York Historical society, the guggenheim foundation, a new america. Tonight julian will be joined by kevin kruse. The political social urban clash. In 20th century america. Focus on conflicts of arrays, rights, and religion, his particularly interested in segregationist civil rights movement. [inaudible] the rise of religious nationalism in the making of the modern conservative. His books include life light, atlanta and the making of modern conservatism. One nation under god how Corporate America versus christian america. In the recently book. His men honored as one of americas top young and evaders by the arts and science by the historian magazine. I was one of the top historians and history by the streaming network. Has been recently named distinguished lecture by american historian on the guggenheim fellowship. That the tongue twister to say. [laughter] without further due, Julian Zelizer and kevin kruse. So hi there. Everybody. So well have a local chat here and pretend hundreds of people are not lurking in the background. Its good to see you. I just heard we Work Together on a book called fault line which permit history since 1974 with the president Newt Gingrich was a big part of that so im excited dive into his career in your terrific book about it. Think a lot of american the audience we just went worldwide. I probably knew Newt Gingrich as his time as speaker. I think a burst on the scene in 1994 but of course and political app engine activism in congress before that we talk about a younger Newt Gingrich. When he started in congress the first run for office what he was all about aware he was coming from. Sos practices the first i like to welcome everyone thank you for joining us. Its nice to see people from all over. Newt gingrich was quite a character pretty had been an army brat in group living in different parts of europe. His family was originally right outside harrisburg, pennsylvani pennsylvania. Workingclass area that was republican. He ended up in georgia and went to emory. He married his High School Math teacher. He then went to tulane where he got a phd in history. Unstudied colonialism and colonial policy. Many moved to his first job, just as we did to west georgia college. He never really liked academia. Within a year he wants to be the president of the college and head of the department. And he runs for congress. He is one of the first republicans in the area who studied in a democratic area. Hes part of the republicans that wants to make the south read instead of blue to user modern colors. Elected in 1978 its his third try to have a taste of what is going to do. At one point said in a statement if she wins shes going to move to d. C. , her husband and family will still live their lives in their business and gingrich jumps on it. She was to break up her family shes a radical puts everything above moral values. I was really a low blow. And it was in congress and we can talk about it. By the early 1980s hes basically saying saying republicans need to do whatever is necessary to finally regain power after being the minority power since 1954. Start doing outlandish and pretty vicious things as part of his partisanship. Then it catches peoples attention. s woman who does that of horses through this group that he is the ringleader of the upper justin a stick society. Tells about that. So he organizes pretty hes not really an organizer and he doesnt care about legislation pretty doesnt want to be on committees, i just want to get his message out. But he is strategic enough to organize basically a caucus of likeminded conservatives who were thought to be a visionary willing to do it heated. Like someone named ben weber was another fellow republican stop listening to all these carts were civility and bipartisanship. We have a small cohort numbers change over time it starts with 12 people and it will grow. And gingrich has this idea that hes going to introduce the part of that team. And in some ways their foot soldiers before the reagan revolution their most aggressive bunch and theyre trying to shake up their own party and say we have to do things in ways that are out of the washington box if we are going to win. Smith and he said as i too think standing in, democrats and the republicans . Thats right. Much of this period that i write about the House Minority leader, this guy named bob michael from illinois using get along republican and had been there for a while. Just like to shake the vote believes in working with democrats. It Still Believes in bipartisanship and gingrich hates him as much is tip oneill and then speaker jim right. So when he gets around that leadership went to that new message out. Thats a big part of the book. This is raw before the conservative media world we now exist for there is conservative talk radio and its expanding during my story, fox news does not exist yet. There is no internet website felt he uses the main stream media as its called today for newspapers, Cable Television as its tool. When the stories he tells in the book which i used to tell for everyone listening everybody taught this class and we would tell the story lets actually want to tell the story its probably a good book here. I was in 1984. His group was a conservative Opportunity Society avenue ones allowed to go to the front of the house the chamber and make a speech theyre called one minute speeches, special order speeches theyre not reserved for people with just power and anyone can do it. So he started going to the floor he made the speeches. Started to say democrats are weak on defense democrats dont support reagans war against communism and with booktv cameras rolling with this news station, cspan covering the proceedings the even nays specific democrats like eddie bolin of massachusetts and said how to respond to this . What is your answer . The chamber was silence if you are watching you saw on cspan look like the democrats had no response. What the people could see his no one was in the chamber because the rules only let you put the camera on the speaker. Tip oneill get so mad, speaker of the house burst in, orders the cameras to pan the chamber into show there is no one there. And it didnt and its at times against mrs. Tip oneill the rules is an autocratic part of the corrupt democratic establishment and oneill gets even angrier. Since the closing scene in his career like gingrich was doing to the democrats. I said the speaker spoke improperly and thats an embarrassment. In this story culminates with the media angle meeting all three networks covered it. Nbc, cbs, abc on the nightly news all had stories about gingrich, but these young mavericks were doing and that was what gingrich ultimately wanted and could not be more pleased. Many stories were uses the institution of the media was his own party leader and kind of smear with the democrats are about. So you mentioned tip oneill which is of course looms large as reagan sparring partner in the 80s. I guess someone of a mess to politicians who kind of got along after hours. Gingrich how distinguishing people around them has a relationship that reagan and oneill had . Didnt like what reagan was doing to the countrys much too far to the right in terms of economic and social policy. It was true that leaders in both parties, the bob michaels, tip oneill, did balance the with the needs of governance. They were always making this tradeoff. That help them understand when you going too far . They didnt want to go so far that were simply necessary to govern gingrich said throw that out the window he would write memos to other enough with bipartisanship enough with civility. All that means is going to keep losing and the democrats again keep having their power. You have to teach republicans to be more aggressive to be more confrontational. Stop negotiating with the republican. It starts, and thats how people talk about him but what happens in the 80s, gradually more and more republicans start listening to him. And the more success he has with these tactics the more intrigued they are by him because they want to have power. On they started to think about that tradeoff that can be costly in american politics do i want power so much i enter into alliances of people i know can meet dangers to the institution. With the rise of lee atwater the political strategist and 88 . Whats their relationship like customer expect a very important relationship. They directly come in context of the heart of the book but hope everyone buys and enjoys from the strand, the heart of the book revolves around gingrich after this cam scan incident and their other conflicts with the democrats in 1987 tip oneill has retired and there is a new speaker in town. Hes been the majority leaders been from taxes party was an oldschool democrat. And you know he was a liberal he believes he was defending against the reagan revolution but right was a good target for gingrich. He wanted to focus on the scene that democrats were corrupt establishment. That was the theme. Their stories about questionable relations among people in the district, sold this book that he published was speeches in bulk to groups he spoke to. There are big on stories that did not sit quite right. So uses all of these any website washington up into a frenzy. Saying jim right is the most corrupt speaker ever in american history. Its really a small story about misbehavior, questionable behavior. So thats the heart of the story. Then in 1988, this is another time the Party Establishment sees the value of gingrich, who is running for president , george h. W. Bush, reagans vice president. And in may, his appointments, mike dukakis the governor of massachusetts is attacking bush and saying part of the reagan administration, had scandal after scandal and bush was part of it he told with the squeeze factor. His campaign person with lee atwater. He was putting together a pretty Vicious Campaign that played on racial backlash was very much a character assassination kind of campaign. And in may when bush is struggling any commences bush to talk about jim right all the time. To take this story that is really been on the fringes and mainstream and into the campaign. So atwater cell politics just like gingrich. As a bloodsport, characte is about storytelling. Gingrich was a historian and what historian was about i thought politics should be run accordingly back up a little bi bit. I think for people who do not follow the story, the thought of the late 80s as a house leader who is a liberal texan democrats going to seemed like an anachronism. Talk a little bit more about jim right and how he came in to this. Hes older reported 19202, english boarding 1943 studies older. He would subscribe to with the new deal represented. Pretty much on board with the Great Society. He did have spotty moments on civil rights issues. Voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964 but later apologetic about this. Thought it was one of the great mistakes of his career. But by 70s or 80s hes pretty liberal. But he accepts most of what fdr and Lyndon Johnson put together. Its hard to imagine a Texas Democrat like that. Thats who he was. He very much saw Ronald Reagan as a danger. This is a counterpoint to some of the mythology. He thought reagan was pretty right wing pretty and really taking steps that were dangers to the fabric of the country. An overseas he thought reagan supported the nicaraguan conflict for example is misguided. And there was opportunities to negotiate peace that he actually pursued on his own that reagan didnt care about her he was not someone wellliked, personally. Even democrats did not like him. He was cold. He was removed. That hurt him. He was oldschool, prewatergate politics. Any he didnt think about some of the things he did might work in the eyes of the media and in the eyes of washington. He was not corrupt. But he operated in that area of gray that many politicians did which could be used against them and actually won. s of course the ironing of Newt Gingrich of all people lobbying ethics charges against someone is Newt Gingrich own life was shot we say riddled with some of its own problems. Talk about that. How did gingrichs own characters serve here . So he had a lot of issues and they were public they were written about in the media. There are two streams of problems and by the timing is after jim right, are known problems are one his relationships. He had for example a pretty difficult divorce with his High School Math teacher there is a story about an mother joan the 1984 which was trying to capture what gingrich was like personally in one of the stories that really caught peoples i was while his wife was in the hospital for cancer surgery he came to discuss divorce with her. And in the article it left out the papers which was not exactly true. He also was known to be someone with a roving eye and who had an affair. This was known in washington and it mattered as part of the new conservative movement with a majority as a state he also had ethics problems. Half the time hes going after speaker right for the charge of unethically selling his books to make money. He himself was being charged with having a raise money from Interest Groups to promote a book that he wrote. During the papers at the climactic moments of the stories were springing jim right down. But he doesnt care. It is a remarkable part of his psychology. When these emergent bulldozed right through them and just says its different. And he wants to keep moving forward. With the democrats its much more damaging. Back to democratic character issues by think one of the greatest gifts gingrich ever got was finally not having a republican president in office and being able to run against basically a democratic president and bill clinton. So how did gingrich make hay out of the early ear years of the clouds and president . Thats a good connection to the two decades. In some ways jim wright comes first and bill clinton come Second Period and again, one of the most remarkable parts and to realize how consistent and strategic gingrich was and how he was going to attack the democrats. He really doesnt focus that much on liberal versus conservative all of the time. Left versus right post watergate american others love distrusting government. A lot of anger in the electorat electorate. He turns the watergate story against democrats. He makes them the establishment comes back to the theme because he think that will resonate hurt it be as populous message. And right the first takedown. Right is the embodiment of everything that hes been saying he draws a picture, creates a character in them brings them down. And i think after bill clinton is elected he very much or attempts to do the same with bill clinton. He made bill clinton, the embodiment not so much a corrupt democratic establishment kind of a morally corrupt establishment or a culturally too far left establishment. Whatever he wanted to focus on a think he then tried to did the same. I am sure his experience with rights emboldened him to say we can move forward with an impeachment it might very well work. The big move for gingrich of course is 1994. Talk about how that Campaign Take shape. Was it really a National Election . How big of a role does america play . How is gingrich going to change . So plate is an important election. One of the things that gingrich does is he nationalizes the midterm campaigns very effectively. And he uses the things he learns in the 80s about why the media is useful to his advantage. The most famous elements of that campaign for everyone he remembers that or studied it with the contract in america, which is really something of a media gimmick. It was a set of promises that republicans were making. And if they won then it would enact them, that was the first 100 days so to speak as a legislative body. Its published as a tear out sheet and raters enchant readers guide meant to be put on peoples refrigerators but he has a on the steps of the capital of the republicans talk about the contract with america. So stylistically you see him continuing to put together this conservative politics with the very media centered form of politics with the politics that placed great weight on the stories republicans were going to tell about their opponents. The language they were going to use. And it is successful. And when republicans take over and 94 its a big deal in washington. It is the First Time Since 1954 when eisenhower was in office at democrats controlled both chambers of republicans controlled both chambers of commerce. Its almost the second step of the reagan revolution. And so conservatives thats a big moment. And finally, back when gingrich could bring all the little tools, all the strategies come all the rhetorical weapons he had been working on since the 80s into the very top places of political power, speaker of the house. And religion language in 1994 campaign, and of course that when the really important things that we talk about. Talk a little bit about the mem memo. Was language a key mechanism of control. How does that influence not just 1994 but the Republican PartyGoing Forward . So is really fascinating memo to see you can google it if you and look at yourself. Ging