More important conversation we have today. Since the death of george floyd last month in police custody. And natalie here in america and also we have seen a certain narrative take hold. It starts with the assumption the only way is through racial lines. Actually and it is the narrative to assume the behavior to a black that with every the man what happened to him happens to black people all the time. Essentially they have left things the violent encounter. The media has run with the narrative that has a very real pushback with the little skepticism and that the Law Enforcement is at the root in america. So now we find ourselves with a conversation about policing. To abolish president , police and legislation in congress to make it easier to prosecute tops and fire them and with those are radicals with entire neighborhoods of a major city like seattle and those precincts that have been abandoned commentators who not only make excuses for the rioting and looting but sharing to a larger extent. And thats the point of this event today inviting panelists to talk about that particularly interested in what they have to say and whose name all of this is happening as a young man of color. They are supposed to be the biggest beneficiary of what is being advocated and the wake of George Floyds death. Lets get to our panel i will briefly introduce them. First have a lawyer and author who has the Nonprofit Organization called road Home Research and analysis and author the book why young man that allure of the Violent Movement and what we can do about it i hope you get a chance to talk about that director of legal policy at the Manhattan Institute with policing in the criminal Justice System in general and then to join the Manhattan Institute has testified before congress and for any number of publications in the New York Times so i will start with you. People assume to get your take on this is the blade encounter happen because floyd is black why did so many people jump to that conclusion . The answer is pretty complicated. Because there is no evidence with that racial animus that was reprehensible but the reason that so many people because it fits into your preexisting rhetorical structure that is built upon the assumption so when you have that misconduct in the case of george floyd. And then it is considered to be a foregone conclusion. And then to only speculate and the power that i narratives and they can capitalize with that in fact. That this was a racial incident to fit the narrative and the political types and more progressive commentators. Absolutely. We dont know if it was racially motivated. That sounds crazy to people who havent been paying attention to the full range of people in this way that we mining people there was a white man who died in a very similar way with the Dallas Police officer and released on video to spark as much outrage as the george floyd incident which leads to your question that this is something that only happens to black people and the answer lies in the National Media. At least a dozen are several dozen those that are killed by cops every year. And those stories just die in the black hole of local news. So people who just follow that casualty understand get the false impression that only happens to black people so i many ways is not their fault what the National Media has said why is that coverage bias in the National Media almost nobody knows the name tony has to do with the understandable sense and to speak for myself Many Americans were raised watching white Police Officers on civil rights protesters and that is imprinted and almost ingrained in the subconscious and to see a white officer doing something to a black man it hits the American Mind to see a white officer doing the same thing to a white suspect black officer doing it to black suspect. Do you agree that the media plays a role . Helping people jump to these conclusions it must be something fishy going on what role does the suppressed play leading people to jump to conclusions . I do think the media does play a role and to some cases and not others but the control that is speaking to the reality that is disproportionality in society and george floyd being killed by a Police Officer is more likely would happen to george floyd then our white person and that alone that disproportionality and what people know to if they are stopped by the police they will interact and then have a negative encounter. And then more than that media that and then to those certain explanations over others. So that is why we wanted to have the panel with the rate of those encounters a day picking on blacks are the over placing and with that disproportionate number in Police Officers. Its the way that Violent Crime is dispersed and Geographic Area and then be exposed to Gang Violence or worry if the kids will make it home safe and you call the cops and rely on them for that stabilizing presence and because of that black people will interact add a disproportionately higher rate is that the factor is just how human beings think and experience the world but the way Violent Crime was distributed police are having more common interactions with black individuals than others. The way that communities are policed. That makes it easier to prosecute cops. A National Database for police. And to heather background. But how much of a difference do you think these reforms will make when it gets at the problem we were talking about. Thats the right question before you answer to get a realistic picture how long of please violences. There has been that toxic narrative with the black community that it can be fairly characterized that those are reserved for black and brown people and it is extremely rare lethal force or nonlethal force it is used in zero. 03 percent of all the rest and they made ten. 3 million arrest. When it comes to nonlethal force it is not a largescale problem and that they will face with the difference they can make to say that because it is so whereupon there really isnt all that much room for improvement and this is a political problem. 1971 the nypd wounded more than 220 people. But by 2016 those numbers were down. None of that progress is reflected in that rhetorical posture and any proposal to the extend to overcome the narrative for those popular reforms we are seeing i do agree that has been made to difficult and i think that reflects some concerns about job security and ways around that we should be talk about that support of the general incapacitation argument to benefit society to benefit society to incapacitate to take that power away. But we have to do that. Unfortunately our conversation right now i just dont have the potential to make things better. What you think of that comment and then to share more data in Different Police departments and with that data and different ways there is no central database in terms of the behavior of the officers there is no uniform way that they lead move us in that direction. I know you like data we all like to use it but im wondering if thats the real narratives. And to have better data i would like to see more data doesnt make much of a difference to change the conversation we are having . Yes. I am aligned with ralph. Which reforms made sense . Transparent data make sense to me universal body can perhaps changing qualified immunity. I can see both sides demilitarize weapons make sense. How much does that address the problem and i am rather pessimistic and to understand why the shootings happen to begin with. And then to go from the high point that many of the shootings happen because america is the foremost gun country on planet earth so when a cop pulls over suspect that it has a legitimate fear and when someone reaches for the wall that are smart phone and then that cannot be legislated away that the suspect is about to pull a gun on him or her. That roughly 300 cops die every year that has an effect on how they approach the american suspect. We ought to have a very serious and rational conversation and the status quo is unacceptable that short of shooting someone in the back its very difficult to get punish as a Police Officer however at the same time we also have to manage our expectations about what is possible. We probably can i hope we can get to a place we never see george floyd again but i would bet all the money i have no matter what we do, we cannot get to a situation where there are zero or very close to zero deadly shootings because of the reality of being a gun country. What i think im hearing , and i certainly agree with it, we should find ways to get out of with police forces. Thats all for the good but at the end of the day policing is in the essential problem. That is where the 9 11 calls originate which gets me to the question is making policing the right way to go . If it isnt the essential problem, where a word you like to see the focus of the conversation . People are paying attention right now. If you think we are overemphasizing the role of black homicides in the country with every data measure that we have, more than 7000 black homicides last year involving police, where shared the focus of this conversation be . If the goal is to get society and goals in particular where they are reinvesting money away from Law EnforcementLike Mental Health and social services and childcare comments and necessity Violent Crime is reduced and its a vicious cycle that the problem requires more policing to take money from what could address the core issues for those neighborhoods in the first place every Police Officer ive talk into we cannot arrest our way out of this. Law enforcement over the last 25 years can have a heavy hand on crime but also a devastating effects on families and communities at the same time there is a role for those communities themselves and i think a lot of black americans that i have worked with understand there is a tension between address seeing that i need a violent non neighborhoods and conditions for police to interact with the very young man less often but those that shape the narrative and dont live in neighborhoods where we have attention on the ground if you dont have to worry that his shooting has happened and you dont think what intersection did that take place, then you dont have the value of police on your mind already. So there is a broader class dimension where if you are privileged enough not to need police its easy to go by them but if you the one need them and you have a more complicated the thing. And while black lives matter as a Community Group where there is a class difference its very out of step on mens issues with the average black voter in america so to be an authentic voice joe biden i do believe one have won the democratic primary and you see him polls and surveys that there are more positive views on Law Enforcement and there is conservative views on economics to create jobs and opportunities and Educational Forums so on the ground we already see it as a more complicated conversation the police are not the center point. It is an upperclass that we would call a managerial class narrative. Let me ask you a quick followup. I know youve asked about guidance in these communities for young black men with the rap music and hiphop culture , our young black man with suspicion or is it a cultural problem there is more with the expression of young black men and and then to embrace the criminality at least in the actual actions and behavior. Absolutely i wish we held people who saw their cultural world with the systemic racism to the same standard address seeing criminality. Its heartbreaking they can sell gangster fantasies in the young black man pays the price. I want to ask if there is a danger in the overfocus of policing . In other words is it not only the goal to reduce the number of black deaths each year but is it dangerous to do this . Could there be a backlash among Law Enforcement and how might that look them play out . And you have written with cops and have written a lot about policing in urban areas. What is the danger to scapegoat Law Enforcement . Twofold. The first part is it leaves the unrealistic impression from the data that these sort of things from the video which is a regular occurrence so in my opinion that is indefensibl indefensible, yes. But people actually believe it. There is a 2016. It says twice as many black respondents worried more about police brutality. Twice as many. But it shows highprofile cases need the president s to less likely to report crime. So it creates of all and we started talking with the discrepancy in the numbers it could be extremely dangerous if one is less likely to be and also the idea that police could pull back and that something we have seen happen in recent years. People will say thats just policing. That would be the right response if the meaning was that we are angry so take care of it yourself approach but actually i think much of the pullback is real fear ive spoken to a few Police Officers around the week and they have all expressed a real sense of insecurity. I dont know what will happen if i approach this guy. Maybe i should lower my risk profile. One of the dangers this will have is the rhetorical posture that demonizes police will lead to that job become more physically and legally risky if you increase that risk profile of a certain profession what are the ways people calculate the risks we take by considering other alternative options the more riskier the endeavor becomes less attractive it becomes to those who have better alternative options so potentially and that making policing attractive to a group of people who dont have very many options which means the recruiting people people with more one iqs are less psychological profile and ultimately could end up exacerbate the problem that you work so hard to get down to zero. Yes. These are real dangers and also form radical and dangerous for that can pursue incarceration at any cost and they have consequences also. Woman killed summer 2018 in chicago her name is Brittany Hills 24 years old standing on the street in front of her House Holding her one yearold daughter. The little girl waved and the guy in the passenger seat fired and hit Brittany Hill and the torso just before on where she was caring her daughter and collapsed and died in the street