Discussion. Great. Lets get started. Since thesi outbreak of the covd pandemic, a faceting debate has emerged about the potential impact of the coronavirus on the global order. Some experts are maintaining the virus will have a transformative effect. For example, doctor Henry Kissinger has written the world will never be the same after the coronavirus, andy ward that the pandemic could up in the global order. And then there are people like professor joan i who contends that the pandemic is unlikely to be a a political turning pointd he believes many aspects of globalization will endure and suggest despite u. S. Mishandling of the pandemic that the balance of hard power and soft power will night shift fromm the unitd states to china which is of course part of the debate. Id like to start with a broad question. Do you think, congressman bera, that the pandemic will affect the global order inconsequential ways . If so, how . I certainly think this is the Largest Global disruption with had come certainly in our lifetimes and probably since the end of world war ii. Certainly world war ii appended global norms appended. But i do think postworld war ii we were ablet to put institutions, alliances may be led by the United States that really did create this time of prosperity and relatively, relative peace. I do think this pandemic will have a similar disruptive impact. It will not be totally transformative but certainly it is created that opportunity for us to think about what that world order looks like as we come out of this. Clearly the president of the trait whether its the second Top Administration or an Incoming Biden Administration it will be consumed with domestic response to covid, and rightfully so trying to get the population through this. But as with the butt with the world order looks like we are focused on the direct impact of the virus that we have to focus on the secondary and tertiary impact of this virus globally. Folks were incorrectly food insecure, famines that were already there that are accelerating. We see a lot of gradual dates around the world prepandemic pc but the pendant will increase that fragility and certainly upend globalha political norms n some of these fragile states. On the china side, whether its a big power competition, china has been on the rise. What ive noticed in my conversations with our european allies, our asian allies is they are looking at china differently as well. Is there an opportunity for us to create Multilateral Coalitions and partnerships not just toip do with the pandemic, not just tomi do with Global Vaccine Development distribution, but also to move forward. The pandemic really does give us that opportunity to create 21st century alliances and coalitions that reflect todays world, not the world postworld war ii. We will dig into china in a minute but first i want to ask you a little bit about the United States, and it does appear that the pandemic is intensified international doubts and concerns about u. S. Reliability and credibility. As you say its underscored fragility around the world but certainly also in the United States and there are concerns about the u. S. Withdrawal from International Institutions such as the world health organization. Do you think this trend is reversible . I hope you do. And what steps should the United States take to reassert its leadership, and why does that leadership matter . Certainly prepandemic, President Trump and the Top Administration has taken antr unconventional approach to Foreign Policy. Statements about nato and other alliances, certainly create concern aroundre the world and n our conversation with global leaders, friends and likeminded allies they understand some of the 2016 election depended on domestic politics. This election coming up in november, as the American Public goes to the polls, talk a lot about the direction of the United States. Because while the outcome of the president ial election wont be based on Foreign Policy, it would be based on domestic issues, the candidates have very different approaches. The outcome will really tell a lot to ourur allies around the world. Ii do think these relationships are repairable. I was on the call with members yesterday and ive is a lot of concern about troop withdrawals in germany. This was a Bipartisan Group of members of congress. Congress realizes the value of these institutions and ten Congress Actually start to step up and rebuild the balance of power thats served us well in the cold war. There was a longterm strategy that wasnt democratic or republican. It went from one administration tore the next and i think theres an opportunity for congress to start to weigh in on these relationships because again, in a bipartisan way i think congress understands the value of these relationships and alliances. Theres an opportunity there to step back up to the table. That may not be the way it was previously but it is again can we rebuild alliances and institutions to serve us21 in te 21st century. Talk a little bit about china now, and as you know the Trump Administration has refrained the nature of the threats that the United States faces, strategic competition between the United States and china is really quite central to that frame. There are people i think you are raising the specter of the possible emergence of a new cold war between the United States and china. Not necessarily replicating the u. S. Soviet contest but with some important similarities and possibly equally as dangerous point from my perspective, the ideological component of that competition has really come to the fore. Do you think we are headed toward such an outcome . If so, how should we respond . I certainly think you will have Great Power Competition between the United States and china. Hopefully, it doesnt replicate what we saw in the cold war with russia. Certainly we will be in economic competition. We will be in competition for global influence around the world. Hope that, if you asked me four years ago the vision was we would have gotten ppp that was as much a tool of commerce as it was for strategy and he do think we will look back and the fact we didnt get it over the finish line was one of our biggest strategic losses that i wouldve predicted we wouldve been finishing ttip and we wouldve been creating a framework for the to get goods and services around the world with potential wouldve moved us into a more peaceful 21st century. We are not in that reality today. China is exercising some of its newfound muscularity. That said, some of the political rhetoric, the issues that the Trump Administration brings up are not necessarily the wrongng issues. I think their tactics and methods may lead us in the opposite direction. I would try to take the u. S. China issue out of the politics of our electoral politics and think about how do we approach this diplomatically. Its still better to have dialogue and relationships. I also think when we comes to a the one thing they really do here is its a Multilateral Coalition of likeminded countries come together to strengthen. I would make the argument that china is for something that with her actions in hong kong, with other the way theyre treating the uighurs come with her actions in the south china sea, the real concerns that we along with allies and japan, india, australia and elsewhere are concerned about Maritime Security and freedom of navigation issues. I think while china doesnt want to see this Multilateral Coalitions come together, i think there are accelerating this partnership and we should lead into that. Certainly the europeans in our conversations, in the covid era but also in the post covid era supply chain issues that were talking about are very different conversationsra that we didnt have just twoag years ago. Theres an opportunity for the u. S. And the eu to partner there as well. As our competition with china has intensified, our areas of cooperation have really atrophied our efforts to work with china on issues like of course combating Climate Change, even discussions about how to mitigate the pandemic are as i understand at a federal level virtually nonexistent. And nonproliferation probably another area where we used to work quite well with the chinese. I think some people argue cooperation with china can undermine our ability to compete. What is the right balance cooperation and competition with china . Do you think that we should reinvigorate some of these areas of cooperation with china of course along with other countries . I absolutely do. I think diplomacy and commerce are good things to build cooperation, certainly competition. Which engage with china with eyes wide open. In many ways i think we went into the opening of china and the liberalization of China Understanding the success we had with japan post world war ii where they became a developed economy, world leading econom, stable democracy and trading partner, the same with korea, that we had an expectation that as chinas economy develops, you would have freedoms and human rights and other issues would create the pillars of maybe not a u. S. Style democracy but something more liberal world order. Obviously thats not what we are seeing in todays china, but that doesnt mean we shouldnt be engaging in dialogue. The world today is very different than it was in the cold war where you had a bipolar world. You at the eastern bloc and the liberal democracies. When you talked to the countries in the region its not even the United States or the west or china. They understand they are going tot t un be dealing and tradingh both. We have to approach it as such that its not either our way or the chinese way, but is therea way to exist in in a competitie way but also collaborative way that is good for not just the region but also thehe world. The International Order that was established after world war ii, i think its frayed and in some ways may be no longer very well suited to address the challenges of today. I think we have to go beyond just thinking about how to strengthen the International Order that may be about new institutions. I wonder if you have some thoughts about how the International Order should be reimagined and what the u. S. Role should be in global institutionsin Going Forward . Take about the permanent membership on the u. N. Security council. Its not reflective of the 21st century. Its reflective of the postworld war ii and you and politics are very difficult. Certainly we have been trying to address and modernize the united nations. I dont think we should throw these institutions. I think wew should look at them from the frame of where we are today in the 21st century. The w. H. O. Is not without criticism but you cant reform an institution if youre not part of that institution, and i do very much worry that our not being at the table certainly seeds are influence and others that may not see the world the way we do. Garner and strengthen it. I do think theres an opportunity and i think the most immediate opportunity comes from the pandemic, and the absolute need to develop a safe and effectivee vaccine. We dont defeat this virus until were not just able to vaccinate one country but able to vaccinate six or 7 billion people around s the world. And can we create that partnership through organizations like cepi and gavi to laos to Work Together and create a Strategic Partnership . We dont know which country is going to come up with the vaccine first. We dont know if the United States will come up with a vaccine that is good for seniors and china will come up with a vaccine that is good for kids. Can we use this pandemic as a Silver Lining to create a different type of coalition to address some of this . Do think the secondary impact of massive displacement of people around the world, massive Food Insecurity, one country by itself cannot solve these issues and when ae look at the issues f global development, can we create new instruments and tools that help us address some of these real issues . And Climate Change i guess is another one. Just a small one. You referred a couple of times y to some of the Global Economic and social consequences of the pandemic. I wanted to ask you a little bit more about that. Obviously, covid is exacerbating challenges in many countries in conflict torn areas of the world like yemen and south sudan and syria. You mention Food Insecurity and the World Food Program suggests that the number of people in need of food aid may double the 265 million by the end of this year. And yet of course the impact of the pandemic on donor countries may result in a decrease in eight in the near term. It really is a major problem that we need to think about. What are the measures that you think should be taken to mitigate these challenges, and whats the role of the u. S. In congressha into . Yes, certainly in some of the prior bills repass the cares act, we plus the Global Health funding. I think an appropriations bill that weo just pass would also t in additional Global Health funding. I would hope what comes out of the current negotiation, we had a robust Global Health funding in there. Its not a given that will happen and certainly its my hope that we can get up to 20 billion, given the dollar amounts were talking about in this supplemental package. Thats something that our conversations with the senate, the hope is they will put some fund in there that we will be able to keep in. In the heroes act we did get our legislation to authorize participation in cepi in there and we got a partner state in the global alliances. Wealthy nations like the United States have to pay their fair share. We ought to figure out what this looks like, and the challenge is going to be selling that to our own citizens. That would be the challenge around the world because at a time when, you know, i talked to my voters are concerned about whether the kids can go back to school, and both, we have to do both because it is in our global interest and our domestic interest to address these issuee around theis world. I do worry again about the fragile states around the world, particularly in Southeast Asia as well as in Subsaharan Africa that could really be under my did here. Undermined it. We are watching a failed state in libya. These present challenges for us down thes road. The development of a vaccine of course is urgent. As i understand their Something Like 160 efforts underway. The u. S. Has launched operation warp speed. You mentioned cepi, the coalition for academic preparedness and the u. S. Does not participate in that and their International Efforts like callbacks. Even though of course callbacks. To get an effective vaccines as possible, that is connected to the global order. There appears to be a competition again between the United States and china. And what you think of the implications, if any, for u. S. Leadership if china develops vaccine first . Does the outcome of this race have an effect on the global order Going Forward, or is that something that you think is a concern that is misplaced . I think we are to be very conscious about my concern. Lets say china develops a vaccine first. They could have T Manufacturing capacity to quickly ramp up a manufacturer produced that vaccine. Lets say china now goes to the less developed world, conscious that i have the capacity and starts distribute that vaccine as china. They have a real opportunity, right now theres a lot of concern about china but they can very quickly create goodwill around the world helping other countries defeat this virus. Thats not a bad thing because if we get a vaccine, but what i would hope is that we would do it collaboratively. Once we come upp with the safe vaccine because of what country develops that vaccine, we show that intellectual property widely. We allowed the Global Manufacturing capacity to develop that vaccine. We should all have set price points negotiated this is okay, wealthier countries like the United States are going to pay this price, but for less wealthy countries they will would get t this price. All those negotiation should be taking place right now. Some of it is taking place but not enough. The real concerns that vaccine National Income use that term,cc in every country for itself, then its going to cost us more, its going to take a lot longer to defeat the virus. More people will lose their lives. There will be more Economic Hardship and suff