States. Benjamin i noticed that there may have been a flurry of books on socialism. This is price because socialism has come into the american mainstream for the first time in our countrys history. There have been socialist candidates in the past predict Norman Thomas but they were never in the mainstream for now, infected a time when many of the socialisms had collapsed at the end of the 20th century suddenly its back in his back with a vengeance. So my surprise theres a lot of books that try to take stock of it. By and large its going to be the history, the idea the socialism has never worked before. Certainly not for lack of being tried it was tried and really the majority of the world. The largest countries in the world, russia, china, india. Oh one go into the socialist direction. So is that it didnt work before so its not going to work now. History kind of argument. But the problem with that argument is the socialist left result a lot of people dont know the history so it doesnt really get them pretty the second part of this even though if they do, they listen. We are trying and new arm of socialism number one. Some authorities and trent authoritarian is to panic. In her model is not linear mall. It is scandinavian. Like the way the people like live in norway and sweden. Soy nuts scandinavian model. It works there and you can see it. And three, are socialism socialism is not just about flat grievances that include racial grievances and gender grievanc r grievances. Sort of the words on the left is putting forward this kind of new socialism if you will. And saying that this time its actually can and will work. Lets get straight what we are talking about so when you write a book about socialism, what is it that youre talking about. In the classic sense. Most early socialists pretty very economic context it was some form of collective ownership of the means of production sprayed abolishing private property. The form of socialism is not very common today pretty leasing large scale. So what is in the music socialism here. New socialism is not it would call a classic socialism. No socialism is sort of the involved the last century to half. Originally, is a socialism before mark sprints the voluntary communities of people and we come together on their own and share all of their possessions and they would usually kind of a free love components. But the state was not involved. He proposed his marxian socialism which is essentially the revolt of the working class. Presumably overthrow the capitalist and take over. They would take over the means of production and ultimately the whole community. The prediction has never come true. Even marxs date this day anywhere in the world. Theres never been that revolt ever. In the late 20th century, socialism it for many companies, nationalization. I grew up in india. Any government took over the banks and took over the airlines. Control ultimately the farming industry. So socialism in practice meant state ownership of Massive Industries and critical industries. In the left today is not interested in any of these per se. The new socialism is an economic component and has all these ideas renewed deal. Medicare for everybody, free college. You can see that these ideas are now embraced by the mainstream of the Democratic Party. Also includes its cultural components. Teresa mark in this book were see it is difficult socialist todays not a union guy demanding higher wages pretty sort of the eco feminist through marxism and black lives matter. Throw cement blocks that are to our political opponents. This is the character marks could have foreseen pretty and reflects the fact that were dealing here with an interesting highbred of cultural and economic issues. A lot of socialistic here what about than the minimum wage. Caremark of the transgender bathrooms and they care about the universal based income. Theres a cultural component that sometimes overtakes the economic component. Lets work through this starting from economic component rain and then getting to these cultural components. I thought it one point in the book coming to find types of socialist to believe it was, hardcore socialist because i socialist and socialist light. Because unlike maybe. Leaving with those three terms. One falls into those categories pretty. Limited think about this is to compare biden against for example Bernie Sanders for Bernie Sanders is explicit socialist predict he sounds like an alltime socialist pretty it is a Common Element pretty he honeys hundred enemas in the soviet union. Now this is a bit too much. I dont think this is a socialism but you can actually get buried so democrats have talked for call it socialism white printer perhaps miraculously briefing socialist. Sabina and for example those free college but now he is for it. Why. Because the pulling the Democratic Party is towards the left pretty good when you think about socialism knows as much is a kind of defined thing. Think of the free market unwanted of the spectrum socialism on the other end and asked this question. Wish democrat is pulling the free market direction and wish democrat is pulling in the socialist direction. The simple answer is, theyre all pulling the socialist direction pretty without exception pretty sought whether there pulling hard holly. That the depressive decide liska with ripping socialism. It is more marketable. And bernies socialism. Thats why they picked biden overburden. I think youre exactly right. On the spectrum. Even defining this narrow version of nationalizing the mean of production. Varying degrees of that were socialism in the present, the soviet union and communism are greatly, nationalization. Partially liberalizing and so overwhelmingly socialist. Maybe running in the opposite way. And policies going the opposite way some of them the predatory mentioned. Seven healthcare some version of nationalized healthcare. With benefits into the traditional socialism. It doesnt course there are welfare states in europe that have National Control of healthcare. Part of this is to start by you can debate these things without being honest about them. Just knowing what you are talking about pretty so that i of people like Elisabeth Warren, talk about medicare for all. To begin by using kind of rhetoric that has to be impact. Say things like want to take healthcare away from the Greedy Pharmaceutical Companies and started over to the people. We want the people to be in control of their healthcare. With their healthcare is administered. So then i asked the obvious question well. What roles do or will the people have in any of this. Lets look at other government institutions pretty what controls the your i have in running the post office. None. What controls your i havent running the dmv. None. Or controlled is the ordinary british guy have over the British National park service present pretty so people here its a little bit of a road pretty youre going to be running anything. Elisabeth warren is. So right away we realize the socialism offer some things to the socialist class this opposing it. It is not just the pharmaceutical companies of the people of the third player the politicians themselves have a great deal of power. To gain. How are the does ultimately converted into monday. This very important component pre socialist in america very rich. And people are able to parlay the position ultimately into the cash from seven to the bite the obamas. Out for great these people go from 0,200,000,000 in the government center. They cash in the public position pretty so that is the first point that people are not in charge. In fact the real question is this would run healthcare. Putting the Insurance Industry pretty on the Political Class and that makes it a little bit more of the actual choice savings. I think youre actually absolutely on point here. And this is true the name of the people. But they end up benefiting. Some more than others. No one think they will throw out as part of this economic policy. You say is treating everybody more equally, universal basic income. Guaranteeing a minimal income to all americans of that they can be free from the oppression. I want to print how do you respond to the proposals on that pretty. I think we have seen a little bit of a preview i nasty preview i was safe socialism. Under coronavirus. Where we actually had some form, monday through universal basic income pretty i think the glutton was actually almost, there was want to say to the market people, eight even sitting in cash for months pretty would you like to keep doing it. Why do you want to put on an outfit and shape a good work and punch a time clock to listen to your point regret having to forgive thousand or 2000 bucks a month essentially make you a permanent slug. Have to admit, there is a little bit in human nature this is well, that is fantastic because it was to get off the couch. This appeals to all of us. Ultimately, a voice to the type of socialism by the way the democrats are telling pretty readily mark would been discussed by this. He actually admired the worker was sweating and putting in the long day and is only point was that youre putting too much of the loan it on this guide. At some point is back his windbreak. He will have enough. In dripping with sweat tested this. Tomorrows workers of the world unite. Theyre not as the democrats have now. Freeloaders of the worlds unites pretty democrats it would seem to prefer that we dont work quite a patient me to be aware they said, were not going back to work pretty go keep telling us to go back to work. Try to make this temporary condition permit. Another way to put it is the shortages, mimic purchases pretty think that i am familiar with in india. Our family and a russian card for example. Under coronavirus them up with the december a case taste of what socialism would feel like on a permanent basis pretty we should not also forget the attack of civil liberties. That is the key part of what socialist do. Its also no religious liberties, no freedom of assembly. No freedom of speech. No guns. Its funny when you pay people not to work on me dont get production. Policing that decrease months. Another one that will bring up. This is not fit with the troop traditional marxism. Free college. Free college rather than african forgiveness of student debt as part of the package. I was watching 60 minutes and i see this fellow, joe lubinski. He studying to be a doctor pretty decent man, i would be such a better doctor if i didnt have to worry about paying for medical school. Will be separate in this education was free. I could put all of my attention into being an outstanding doctor. And heres leslie nodding. And im waiting for to ask key question which is a joe, you another people, the guys to pay for your education, to become a doctor, you willing to work for free. And the answer is obviously not. It was a bmw five sally with the pool in the backyard. And wants to have the big house and so on. So is the point pretty he wants the privileges the first being the doctor but he wants it the foreman to pay for his education. The shamelessness of this. I think a little shocking. And i dont think again the marks would have any sympathy for the sky pretty would consider him a bourgeoisie part of the class to actually be thrown is back in the working class made him angry enough. So the problem with the working class today in america is there less likely to be funded of the union, revolt then be canada trump rally. The left has lost pretty. The working class of the being has become wildly prosperous over the last 150 years. Finding their constituency on that. For the new policy this being proposed on the states environmentalism. But really is live socialist components underneath. So is renewed deal renewed deal. If you look at the renewed deal, number of its remedies have nothing to do with climate change. Honestly believe that many of the politicians pushing the renewed deal, neither no no care whether that is getting caught her colder and the earth. Theyre experiencing it exactly the same as they were when kids. So ultimately this is a ruse. Why is the need for abuse at all. He said the working class is not going to deliver with socialist want. An economist about a hundred years ago rapes the question, why how socialism became mainstream in america. In this answer is all socialist utopias and custom to live on roast beef and apple pie. In other words the working guy living too well pretty was to join the countless class, not to sort of violently sling it to the ground. The leftist figure this out. They know it they realize we need to pivot. Many new types of waves get the socialism that the kind revolt marx predicted which is never going to happen pretty soon the relying on the politics of fear. Fdr learned the new deal that fear is a great way to get things done pretty that you could not get in otherwise present since then, since the 70s when it first came to america in my teens from india, but during this period the 70s the world was running out of food pretty in the 80s it was nuclear apocalypse. The 90s, the ozone layer was apparently dissipating. Thus 20 years is that climate change. Editions arising the glaciers are melting in the pink with the coffee. In the late late coronavirus print something pretty never caisson the idea is to create panic and try to get people to do in the stampede in a crowd mentality, with they would not do if they thought about it. And acted in a comment deliberative manner. That is the key strategy of the left since the importance of climate change. You also identified this. Fear earlier in the 30s. This can have america began this transition to socialism. In the presidency of fdr and the policies he was putting place there. I like to highlight two elements of that fft operated. Either all that well known. One of them is that fdr actually favored in the seems almost coming to say today. Hundred percent tax rate. He thought if you made over a certain amount of money the government should pay everything. And one point even said, why should any american make over 25000 year. Obviously this time, he did mean 25000 but nevertheless a statement is really pretty wanted dave limits on what americans prefer. I could earn. He also introduced the politics of demonizing the rich. Which is been very critical to the politics of the market lofgren much as the socialist with the Democratic Party in general. This is actually worth noting because it is not necessarily the characteristic of socialist countries. Scandinavian. In that country, you would never see people demonizing the guy is running nokia demonizing guy runs somebody for making pay. Liking finger, Bernie Sanders is doing. So in the left side were trying to follow the scandinavian model, no youre not spray directly following the fdr model. The model i would say, the politics dividing the society, not just run away with that many different ways. Michael scandinavian unification pretty were all in this together, to begin conferencing with what could be division socialism which is absolutely critical to the politics of the left today. Look at the way for example that there pretty racial divide. They literally speak department. Because it part of that socialist strategy. Some surprising. A couple of years ago, when i was researching are the book about socialism sucks. And while they traveled the world, if any ship im going the big socialist conference in the United States. And into 2019. Talk to young people there. Theres basically nobody in our age range there. Everybody was either in their 70s, or 35 and under. Mostly 35 and under. And when there to understand what did they mean by socialism. What are they talking about just to learn. I didnt hear very much about nationalizing production. Instead i heard, black lives matter, immigration issues. Climate issues. Gender issues. Think of it as you go across the spectrum of different things. None of the traditional socialism. An abortion was a big one that they all chanted about. I dont remember seeing that it marks anywhere. I was a little bit surprised about that. Actually, maybe we have differences on this pretty some of the issues that they point out, but their solutions to be almost being seen a strong. You identified does as identity socialism. Would you like to elaborate what is going on thats a little bit pretty. Yes. Think this is one of the kind of signal contributions, book. I identified and tried to if you will, this new type of socialism identity socialism american classic socialism identity politics. So think of classic socialism is essentially strategy marxian division between rich and poor. Loosely speaking. The modern american socialist left, the divided society is that but its not just that it is also race divided black against white. Is a gender divide delegates female. His Sexual Orientation divide starting a skate. Transgender and is also an immigration divided. Legal against illegal. So amazing that while boxes started car of society into two groups of the leftist trying to slice Americans Society into many different and across many different lines for and why are doing this for the doing it because they think that if we divide society into these eight different ways, we can assemble a Majority Coalition of the Victim Groups that can come together and then sort of take on everybody else greatest of the trying to to 51 percent and firm belief that the democracy itself a legitimate nice. Of the of the 49 percent. This is what they called democratic socialism. To me is the arm of naturism. To be used on a full of difference if i was a kid going to school with ten marbles in my pocket with one guy jumped me and forcibly season mice marbles or im a group of ten and the other nine jump be a majority, take my marbles in the way of being robbed. So you think it is about the banner of socialism that gets those barriers, very individual issues that dont necessarily think together pretty what is it about the mentor socialism the polls them altogether. I think there are unified really by the hatred. And that is of capitalism more broadly hatred what can be called the infrastructure of western society that is made capitalism flourish within it. So another were some they dont just take the market. Where the Insurance Companies pretty they also hate the family. They also hate the idea of a judeochristians structure of morality. They hate the idea of these churches which are a vehicle for people to express their freedom of conscious. I think if the at its way the targets would be family, property in the church. This is not unique to be. The russians, they