It to such a pleasure to speak about your book try washington and we the people. Im going to get into the idea of revolution, you say in the book america has been through divisive. Before some followers that we are living through today, with the hindsight of history, we can see them as inflection points, the transitional period between old system that is broken down in anyone with information, are we at an inflection point, absolutely, we are right in the middle of it, to the best example, in 2016 the republican primary, it was a real civil war and the Republican Party that the establishment of republicans represented by jeb bush and others did not get the nomination, did not get the support of the other people, those revolutionary donald trump, the democrats are going to the same thing right now, theyre having a civil war in their party, is it going to be the traditional democrats, is it going to be some outsider, socialist, i think that is indicative and the fact that it just doesnt work, the stop that is worked in the last 40 years in the United States to govern the people has not kept up with the country, i guess at the end of this book that i realized after long. Then i went into the wilderness to figure it out as america goes to the divisive periods roughly every 40 years, why, its because were very dynamic country, demographically, geographically, socially, economically, we are constantly reinventing ourselves, not just as individuals but as a nation and government aisle which might make this intriguing, but certainly the more productive conversation that we can have in this teenage are based on common ground, civility and understated each of the differences. Can you explain what you mean i nationalism and populism and how it might be different than others. I think there is for things to define, nationalism and populism and elitism. For decades i was republican Foreign Policy establishment, i went all the schools, i had jobs and those of ministrations but over the last ten or so years i came to reject a lot of the thinking that i had before about globalism, globalism in my mind is the idea that because the sophisticated Economy International and that the boundaries are as important, the National Boundaries are not important when you think of the internet and the finance going and people going, the boundaries are less important because its a free flow of information, ideas, individuals, finance, business and so that is international as a globalist that thinks thats a new world and so we really dont need to thank you so much about the National Laws and regulations, we really need to have global institutions, global regulations that defy anybody. The second part is the elitism, i think that stance from a couple k did world in a cup located society for only the experts and the people who had graduate degrees in Nuclear Weapons and no how to hold any kind of opinion on National Security. With those two together, borders dont matter and experts to come a lot of elitist are the people who think if we only have this International Group that they could better govern the world and we would be safer and happier place. That is sort of where i was 15. Im not there anymore, the elitist, theyre not taking care of all the people in the American People especially i as a patriotic flooded american, i believe the American People are sovereign, not some selfselected group of experts, lets say bureaucrat if you will, if the American People who had the right to choose their leaders, they dont like their leader, throw them out and they also have their maker people who make the mistakes and change your mind. The other part which is globalism versus nationalism, i think we spent far too long dealing with the world as we wish it would be. That the United States at the end of world war ii, we were the dominant country in the world, economically, militarily, what we did, we were very generous to our former allies and even tory former adversaries who had the society devastated by world war ii, we entered into security agreement, bilateral multilateral as well as trade agreements tory disadvantage, we put up 75 of the resources for nato for example. Development. Thats how things were for 50 6070 years but i do not think that made sense anymore because the world had changed, a lot of them, most of them have not only recover but surpassing. We did the same thing with china and around 2000 when we said we will give china a helping hand and help them economically develop because in the end they will be like japan, korea or europe, our trading partner, we will play by the same rules and they will be our friend, it did not work out the same way with china, thats why i broke with nationalism, i broke with globalism and elitism well before donald trump came along, i was already there 2014 15 and the reason was i went around the country and in public speaking around groups around the country. I am an elitist, i live in a cocoon in a bubble in new york but as i went around the country i knew something was happening but i cannot figure out what it was, i did my own informal polling and i would get up to the podium and say how many of you think the economy is not where it was and you will have opportunity with your childrens generations that you have had an hands went up and i said do you think america is losing his place in the world and were getting kicked around by pipsqueak countries that we should not be getting kicked around. Then i would ask how many do you think the values of america that we think of as american values, selfreliance, independence, ingenuity, how many of you think that those are going away. Around 75 and then i would say how many do you think its washingtons fault, everybodys hands even including the guy running the sound their lives when they were in their teens. Number in the middle of a cultural revolution. But inch in china, was in the 60s, actually maybe 1970 to 1973. These guys were in their late teens. A lot of the leadership of china now, has been the sons and the leaders of china. When the culture revolution happening, which was chaotic and disruptive and of guard students who were storming, universities, tearing down leaders. It was really the wrong kind of possible of revolution they went wild and they took a lot of the Senior Leader to china. The pet them to jail are they sent them out into the country. Basically firstly labor. And his father was one of those people. So for his child that experience as all of his colleagues, a lot of them have been in the top positions when they were young. Then at the good beijing. That all of a sudden the work sent to the countryside. Along with their families, to be punished and beaten pretty so i think that he in this group, to them, this would think that could happen is a destructive Society People going crazy. Order breaking down. Revolution of the wrong kind. So what they want to do at all costs is to make sure that china doesnt go there again pretty think that drives their full authoritarian social point system. An eight think that drive, their position in the world. They dont believe like we do that sometimes revolutions are a good thing. An individual freedoms, youre not going to have individual freedoms pretty going to be as the government tells you predict so that sort of four they start out. They dont want this order, and they want transparency. Everything was going along quite nicely in the United States as i said, literally tried to help china. To modernize, we thought well the modernize an open economy. The open up at checkpoints. It will be just like korea. All of the of the countries. It will be great happy world. Goodbye yet. But it didnt happen because of the chinese needed to, they were coming from so far behind. They were probably down 20 to 30 years. What it took us 100 years to do. The very conscious of that that they have people who were in starvation situations, 20 years ago now they are building other cities. They will be or do anything to give them a produce of the United States, a lot of the manufacturing jobs that we have, i think he could safely say that they work in america. But then they went to china. In america never really retrained the people. We have unemployment or underemployment a large section of our population while the chinese doing it. We enabled their success. We dont resent their success. At least i dont. If enabled it. Down the times changed. Now time to recalibrate that relationship really dont need to treat china like a third world country and give them the advantages of the trade and finance and marketing of the economy. They wouldve enjoyed their have enjoyed as a third world developing country. Some not saying that we should have an adversarial relationship and are not saying should try to keep them down. His hair because they have done great things. We acknowledge that. Historic achievement in the history of the world. The time has come to rejigger that relationship. To your concerns about fourway for example. And the buying up of all the ports. It throughout africa and the concern about the new sort of colonialism and concern about china and displacing of the United States is a sort of the predominant power in the global power. The chinese have sent to the market, we know that youre in charge. K. T. youre the little brother. When big brother. But i think that their rhetoric and their ambitions have changed. In the las decade or so. The things that i would point to her their refusal for example to renegotiate a lot of these deals. Eight borrow still however you can, access to the technology geographically, ms. Militarily. One is a south china sea. Now that is the waterway through which the majority of the world trade, from europe and africa, from the middle east, august with each south tennessee through china, philippines, korea and the chinese have very aggressively moved and say thats an internal chinese thing. Thats how they started. Were they to build them up. The know, the militarized them and out they are moving towards claiming that that is the worlds greatest ceiling of commerce. It should be an internal thing in the right for the chinese who does what and when. That is a big problem. So far the chinese attempt to take the countries, is in the 14ths, where treatment from china to the middle east. In the chinese attempted to recreate them and with china in charge. It is called one road, one bill. So the chinese but this physical highway but they will also build the virtual highway by going through all these countries. In building things to the Chinese Standards in the chinese will be in charge. None like that roman empire in europe, the final thing is that their maritime ambitions pretty so the chinese have looked at pakistan, these coast of south africa. The name said, well were going to build ports. Just like the south china sea, they civilly sports are here because we want to sell and trade chinese goods. To the sports but in fact, a lot of this portion of being militarized to the chinese are building a maritime route, they are building a land route and trying to control the worlds Global Commerce route. Now in addition to that, with the chinese, made in china 205 through the chinese leader, has said they want to dominate the ten technologies of the future. Gone from making low value, like tennis shoes, to all of the way up to computers and high technology. But theyve identified ten technologies of the future. Artificial intelligence, bioengineering. Sent we want to be leaders in those and will do it however we have to pretty will buy American Companies and we will go to the intellectual demands that we have fred going to demand that the companies have to turn over intellectual properties pretty so that is another way but all these things added together, plus much more aggressive attitude and talking about it. I think the chinese no longer want to be little brother to them of the world and they say, we are going to dominate the world the technology of the world. The commerce of the world. With our International Five g global networks. Well dominate the communications then will rewrite the rules according to our specs. Is that not the case for multilateralism. Versus china not to send this would be an overtly aggressive start but that this would be Transpacific Partnership for america and a dozen of the states around the pacific rams decided to make trade agreements. Hello in the tariff so that they can constrain chinas ability with this companies. Mr. To link the United States. K. T. i think there is a transpacific internet really show. Think that would be everything to revisit entrapped second term. And why because trump understood that he real guilt the American Economy to make it this economy and welcome you have a lot of average. As you get off of the middle east soil, we have a lot of leverage in the energy world. And also because we are the recipients of purchases of most countries goods. Other countries may sell it to us. They need to sell it to us. We make stuff, we dont have to sell it to them. So trump understood those things and realize they can fix the American Company economy, he could get us off of middle east energy. He could use trade with china, japan, south korea, britain soon. Mexico and canada. But what the United States together in a better position they would have much more leverage and then sergeant negotiate. My advice to him is that now that you have china, the phase one agreement, you have it trade agreement with mexico. You probably get one with the brits by the end of the year. We now have it trading because we can go to china and a lot of us have the same complaints about the chinese. And when he goes a block lead by the United States. Say we demand a new deal now predict human to beat you down but we want you to stop exploiting the generosity that we have given you over these decades. That is interesting. I want to talk to about something, the aftermath of the tech americana. And we speak about china. It has given us to some extent, leucine American Intervention with iraq and afghanistan. We seen a sort of complete waste of american lives in how do we take ourselves from iraq and afghanistan. With license and al qaeda. How do we get out of those things. And focus our resources at home. Sue and i think Foreign Affairs like life, you pick your fights and you have priorities. To me its a Big Authority is china. While isis is a problem, and while all of these other things, their problems but theyre not, you dont want to lose track of the real problem. I think they was really graded understanding what was the real game here. The soviet union in the United States. In his Nuclear Weapons. This not get sidetracked with all of this other stuff that might prevent you from dealing with major issues in china. And when trump has allowed the Energy Industry in United States, we have gone through four years and that Energy Importers to exporters. Within a short period of time, we can replace the middle east is the worlds major source of energy. So once we can get off of their energy, leading have to get sucked into their psycho thomas. They been fighting each other for thousands of years. Tribal warfare. We dont belong in the middle of that. We probably could replace the oil. So i think that to me is one of the important things, you have all of these things. Thats important. If it distracts you from doing the importance things from asia and the five g Global Technologies of the future, then you should have a very different focus. So i was critical, not going into afghanistan. We kind of did that. We should not have stayed around to rebuild afghanistan. Sure should not exceed run and try to rebuild these countries. They dont want to be rebuilt. You talk in the book about the idea of nationbuilding overnight even if it looks like years and what is missing is the buildup of civil society. You cant just make a democracy, you cant create a government and an educational institution. It comes from the country for you talk about invasions being the right thing but also those around thing. Ive appreciated that you have your counter. And some of the president s tweeting for example. And your thoughts on importance of rest assured since in this country. The backbone of democracy. I know youre not a big fan of. And then on the other hand, where for example the president to have the tax junctures. And to some way or another. In talking about the people who tried who are associated with him. Can you talk to me about the importance. K. T. i guess about the best part of this in the first amendments freedom of speech and freedom of press. I think trump understood what reagan did. That the would be against him. [laughter]. I absolutely would argue. I do agree that some president s get all of these treatments and challenges frankly. George washington right did he couldnt be bothered with the newspaperman. K. T. i think trump understood the same with the reagan did. I think all of our great revolutionary presence of that you have find a way to get to the American People. And the press establishment. Reagan did the right corner of the country rated and speaking to cities and towns all across the country pretty going to local radio stations a local television stations. Fdr, he went talking out on the radio directly to the American People so how does trump do it pretty he understands the press is not quite like in effect even those that are going to hate him and lie about him. But he found a way to reach directly over the heads of those people. Directly to the market people by tweeting. I dont like to tweet. But some of them