I have read the book. Not only that, i highlighted it. [laughter] i made notes. Come on. Thats a phenomenon with the movie but people talk about books without reading them. Sometimes when they are promoting the movie im working off your page. I feel i could do better than Rachel Maddow right now the goal is to go even deeper than she did. That congratulations on the book and these ideas of what is happening that we wonder about how did this happen . How destructive is it and will it ever get better. But a question of how you got into journalism i got a sense that you were a journalism nerd the way i was a comedy nerd as a kid. Out often interviewed comedians i would hunt down john candy or Jerry Seinfeld because i was obsessed and you did a version of the same thing. The only job i ever wanted in my life when i was five i wanted to be a trash man that was a big event in my house. Was so amazed. Ever since then i wanted to be a journalist. Some people will say the two jobs are the same. [laughter] and then coming in with the snow on the ground and hearing them say my name on tv. Brian in damascus says there is 10 inches of snow. It was almost like fake news back then. I was always interested in television and journalism theres a lot that isnt but a lot that is. So was it a blog . Describe what that was. The tv news version of doing deadlines this was my attempt to obsess over fox and cnn. Post iraq war and pre katrina in the bush years msnbc was going left and fox news going right but back then to be honest its a lot more grounded and a lot more reality based when fox news started they talked about travel and medicine it wasnt politics all the time. Its about the evolution of how fox news changed so with the Movie Network talking about corporations and buying the networks and the news and then suddenly they were servicing the needs of the giant global megacorporations and it was truly terrifying these countries own to the news and it seems to affect their choice what to present on the news and subtle enough. And what i found interesting is the creek at fox news which is 9 11 with the iraq war moving to the right and then with president obama it moves more right it is like this organic adjusted one adjustment to just present this point of view and not even challenge the audience in any way. Any turn is a turn to the right. That was true when obama took office. There is a female speaker of the house and then they are promoting that. But thats all a comparison when trump entered the race and fox hitched on that is the ultimate turn with the owners versus the audience it so complicated it is partly on the owners which is murdoch which is the audience but over time and what we saw with the media it has become more extreme the rhetoric is more extreme over time but then sean hannity was on fox journalism was dead. Ampersand entertainment with movies and television they chase the concept which will bring them the most money maybe you had to go tv then its about horrifying crimes and csi and law and order that reflects the desires of the audience. Then you can see there is a lot of shows like kids being murdered with that algorithm and people must want to see crime shows of women and children and being victims of violence. And then the studios realize we do big spectacles may be we make 1 billion with a small drama because you will not make a billion dollars off of a small drama and when fox news they decided and if anyone is in charge of journalistic standards this is raw we create a situation they dont take the pandemic seriously and White Nationalism and supremacy, we need to make an adjustment but on some level to lose money if they went on the air to say trump is really lying about masks or the vaccine safety. So they dont do it for financial reason. Thats true but i dont know if its on the mind and its by Remote Control and cruise control. Individually i dont think this company will be less profitable to Fact Check Trump but what you say they do turn on the people of fox so the 5 00 p. M. Eastern time in the next hour is special report and then when the newscast comes on viewers dont want to watch it is much as the trump propaganda. One example i thought was interesting is when the pandemic started a lot of the voices of opinion would say things that like the flu and 70000 people died in many years and we will not even get close to that with that overreaction its the democratic hoax and now we close in a 200,000 people dying clearly the numbers will go way beyond that. But on the news side to say its not a big deal that was about 200,000 and pretty soon we need to take this way more seriously. You never get that but its hard to imagine people in the board room to say we cannot challenge these people because he will lose money and then to make a conscious choice to say the information coming out of this Network People who watch fox and they wear a mask less often and they dont social distance so more people watching fox are dying versus other so our lack of interest to really educate people about the dangers, people are dying and it is a conscious choice not to make that an important part of what they present spent the history of this from february or march is so damning and with this pandemic but when trump and hannity injection of the virus that the democrats are making up a hoax even that use of the word it is so dangerous it gave permission at the end of february and beginning of march. And then i made the timeline what were they saying february and march and trump at the white house. And it lines up unfortunately perfectly. Both fox and trump started to change their tune on the same day of march. And then wondering if they were taking it too seriously but then its too late. And then so many people a lot of people make mistakes but American Made mistakes but trump bears more of the blame because he is the ultimate leader of the country. And then to downplay the threat like he left the back or the front door open and close the back door and thats how it entered the us. But it was made as a decision because at the time of this taping the Republican Conventions are on. I saw almost no one wearing a mask. The president wasnt in the middle of the crowd. Im sure they say we tested everybody but the signal to the country is it is okay. And the issue is that will get noticed on other networks. If they were all Wearing Masks that is a signal for a powerful message when people walk up to the podium and that at fox news even points that out it is a Rupert Murdoch decision to not create that in environment we are allowed to say that and that will be punished. Because one thing you go against what trump said. But then the booking start to disappear now hannity doesnt have you honor Tucker Carlson and with that conditioning to challenge the president you may lose your job and your presence will diminish i thought that explained and with truth to power. And that cnn i am to be as accurate as possible because if i am not i will be held accountable. And i have made a couple of my stakes at my on mistakes of my time and i have been in the doghouse. It just doesnt work that way. There is not a standards of practices or the same type of journalistic bidding. So to lean into the propaganda and pro trump nonsense. There was lack of clear leadership atsign fox that is the reality of how this world works and thats how it prints money. 2million in profit and then reprint money but the best story is about judge napolitano the top legal analyst in one of the most interesting characters. They are all friends that he is a lawyer and understood trump was guilty of crimes that obstruction of justice was proven and he called it out and was shunned by trump. He tweeted about him repeatedly he wasnt getting booked on the shows the lost timeslots and maria would only book him on non trump stories otherwise it would not go well. Host trump is calling the network constantly complaining about the coverage and thats whats interesting in the book. Its very specific how often he calls Rupert Murdoch or hannity and he has the constant dialogue with the networks. They do now because it has come out that according to the book he has almost constant communication with sean hannity he calls him before and after the show. If certain ideas are coming from fox and friends are people like sean hannity or the president hes watching the network. And that they are both manipulating each other but its also in a way i dont think the audience understands and the most troubling example is talk about Tucker Carlson how the United States should not attack iran last year and that may have been an important reason. Talk about that story. When ayn rand struck the american drone and how trump would respond he claimed missiles were locked and loaded and the retaliation is about to begin. And what we now know he called Tucker Carlson before hand. But he had been on the air he was advocating against john bolton and striking i ran. But trump needed to hear it again. And needed to hear from tucker again. He called him up. He will not call the white house but if they call him he will answer. And its much more proactive. So the president calls and says what should we do and he says exactly what you said on tv. And carlton later told friends trump needed reminded of who he is. Thats not my they voted for you. So im glad tucker is running the country and not sean hannit hannity. Thats a ludicrous thing to say but there is a degree of truth and with those policy impact on impact so there was a fox military analyst he was on the air talking about the time in the eighties when america actually shut down a plane killing scores of innocent people. Trump never heard that story before when he heard it live on fox it impacted him. So im thinking we are in a situation the president doesnt know basic history but he is hearing some of that on tv. But the number of examples of the president getting information from fox could have filled an entire second book. Literally there are thousands of times. You would think the people that work at fox would be terrified. If i was murdoch and i was aware my host had a direct line to the president and says he does not want to have that type of relationship with the presiden president , that would be a position you would not want to have. As an owner of the network giving out information during a pandemic from my soul i would want to file saved lives and communicated properly. Certainly you can understand how a network could be right leaning and what lower taxes antiregulation but covering for president who doesnt seem mentally equipped to handle a pandemic and with that information you are supporting it requires a level of greed or disassociation not to be horrified that Tucker Carlson was concerned he wasnt taking it seriously. The white house asked him to go. He didnt understand the gravity and tucker is the exception to the rule. He was raising alarms on his show. Probably because he has the anti china view but he was raising alarms. And was asked to drive tomorrow lago. And thats what he did walk straight into the middle of a Birthday Party with a fox news reunion. And that didnt work right away because a couple days later trump is out there to engage in ridiculous rhetoric. Not until the end of march 13 when both fox news and trump started to change their tone. Even then we had limited impact see you have to have a doctor on the air every day so we dont spread medical misinformation. I do want to give them credit. They made changes that improve the tone of the coverage. However, within two weeks they said we need to figure how to reopen america, the terror cannot be worse than the disease than one hour later trump said the cure cannot be worse than the problem. He said we should reopen by easter. That was crazy and impossible. The entire country wasted four days on that idea. It all came to fox. Nobody can ever know for sure how many people died that would not have if not for irresponsible News Coverage or president ial rhetoric. We will never know they say what we were doing it is hazardous to our viewers some say the coverage was outlandish. People see it and recognize what went wrong but i dont think there has been soulsearching institutionally at the corporate level that you talk about. Not that kind of reflection. Host you talk about the Large Business deals they are making and it affects the coverage on fox news. Working on sky tv deal that is when bill oreilly was getting in trouble for the Sexual Harassment cases. And it was a distraction and then you talk about the deal to have the movie studio and others acquired by disney. At that moment there was an adjustment in the news because they were trying to get federal approval. Whats the story at that time . Its interesting because rupert is in the uk and he is worried the American Network word embarrass him and that he is getting rid of the stench. Thats partly why oreilly was let go. He knew about so many ghost and skeletons but it was just too disgusting and they were worried about business interests. And with judge napolitano he went on the air and said they tapped trumps phones. But then trump said asked the judge. And at the time murdoch wasnt concerned because it was the British Government so your American Network makes trouble for the rest of your global media conglomerates and that is while to see. And it is revealing that rupert decides to sell but keeps fox news and fox sports and keeps the News Division because thats what he cares about the most. Mutualll relationships. So the theory says david trump tried to get at t to sell cnn as a condition of the federal government approving at ts takeover of the rest of time warner. There is a theory folks do believe in corporate circles. They said we are not selling cnn. But the timing of the phone calls is very curious. I lay it out in the book. You look at the timing and wonder if murdoch was working with trump. The government did try to prevent them from taking over time warner and maybe it was hard to do that. Why do you think more people dont speak out against this Media Company . People are concerned about their own careers and money into thandfor the same reasons certan journalists wont speak out against trump. There are people on the progress of side that ultimately will still do business because that is who is paying for their rent. That lack of courage to stand up and say i feel this is wrong exists on both sides of the political spectrum. Hollywood is shameless in their willingness to cozy up to people who they think are doing very unethical or even criminal acts as we see this with saudi arabia and with murdoch where the president is teaching children at fox news is providing cover for the end of not fighting hard against it. The besfor the best possible information in a vigorous way to he made a choice to sacrifice his career and felt that it was nervous to make the statements he wanted to make in the civil rights. I wish murdoch would come on with you and take you on it until you. I say that because you never hear from these executives in public. And if you do, they show up on the pre pandemic circuit, but rarely has he given a real interview. The ceo of Fox News Media has given a handful of interviews ever and has never fully addressed with what she knew. They know that its indefensible because i think that for many of them theyve made a choice which is to believe something very simple and if it is the same for having these opinions out there, they say it on the radio. They say it elsewhere. And i feel like people make a choice about what to put out into the world. We all decided we want to be a good person or that person and if we want to sell out or not sell out. And a lot of people were very comfortable just not caring so you would hope they are tortured at home but they are not. They are just thinking there is a lot healthier if we put them on the network we will make a lot of money and then they will be on another network. They are on the left, too. I think that is a rationalization that you could be okay with untold pandemic, until kids are in cages. One of the themes is that journalists do decide to leave and why do they decided to leave, and a lot when people leave fox news they dont usually say why. Didnt even really talk about why and theres a lot of journalists people havent even heard of and also commentators, you know. Abby huntsman is one that came to mind. She was on fox and friends and her final straw was the separation policy when that story blew up in the International News she found it to be so heartbreaking to sit on that couch on that morning show and listened to the colleagues defend it and have to tiptoe around the Trump Administration that she decided to leave you are hitting on one of the reasons you can justify it but a lack of other options. You are not going to get one of the other jobs if you were really the theme of the faith of fox. How many have gone from fox to another network. Meghan kelly tried. I argued in the book that she is the first example of someone saying i cant stay with fox anymore. Its not going to work for me. I am not going to produce the propaganda they want. There have been a few that have left successfully. Katherine harris is a cbs reporter and said the bosses here are not strong leaders. It is their programming so theres a lot of those folks. The other reason some of them say they want to make a change on the inside. They think that they can make a difference but the biggest reason is fox does feel like a family. They take care of their people. When injured in a skiing accident, they offered the Company Claim right away. Those sort of things its not just the private plane or super bowl ticket or the fact they got to design their own offices, that is a real emotion for people. When you give people an nice looking office and redo the carpeting every once in a while, people get sucked into thinking they are being treated well. Although that you talk about in the book is how well paid the biggest stars there are. What was interesting is the competition between the biggest stars. Yes thats interesting. You were