Just very briefly your job experience and career. Yes, thank you for doing this today and great to be with you. Grew up in duchess county new york and received a nomination to the u. S. Naval academy, which i started a week after graduating high school in 1989, and i so i completed annapolis and was then commissioned in the u. S. Navy and served five years in the u. S. Navy, first as an arms control action officer doing International Arms control negotiations in the pentagon and then i moved into i served on a couple of Surface Warfare ships, couple of navy ships in atlantic the middle east. Dont you have a couple of degrees . Yeah, yeah. I have been sort of a life long student. Although i joke around, i was at annapolis, i dropped out in my junior year, but i have always been studying. Just because ive been working kind of throughout that period so i always kind of studied at night and go to night classes and stuff, but so, for example, when i worked in the pentagon i did my masters in National Security at georgetown and served on the pentagon, and then while i was a Research Fellow at the council or Foreign Relations in new york i did my mba in International Business at new york university. And then i worth mentioning because if people followed any of your story in the popular press, they likely heard that you were a not too intelligent kind of hapless guy and i thought that was a clear misrepresentation of what you had done, and then i think we also ought to start maybe at the beginning of the conversation with how you came to work in russia because if not for your presence in russia for business, at some point in time, they may not have had what some would call an excuse to wire tap you to what some would say get to President Trump. So, explain why youyear in russia. People act like its so suspicious if someone goes to russia or does business there when actually many thousands of Business People from the United States live and work in russia. Yeah. Its ironic in a lot of ways because i am a free markets guy, and actually that was my other degree. Did my doctorate at university of London School of oriental and African Studies looking at middle and Near East Affairs and thinking how i did a big Research Project on the tensions between capitalists and socialists approaches in various emerging market societies and one of the case studies i did was on russia. So, my first time to russia was during the late soviet period in the summer of 1991, a few months before the end of the soviet union. I was a part of the First Exchange program between the u. S. Naval academy and the soviets. So, ive been working over there in various capacities, again as i mentioned when i was in the pentagon, i did a lot of u. S. Russia arms control negotiations and when i got out, while i was at the council on Foreign Relations i did a Research Project with this Central Asian caspian sea basin and of course russia is one of the countries on the caspian sea. So ive done a lot of work in developing markets in general but with russia in particular, as one of a key emerging market. I was always i did a lot of work there and eventually its sort of on the interface between cappists and socialists type of approaches with the end of communism that president reagan worked on in terms of transitioning to free market societies. That was some of the i was really inspired with that growing up, and i decided i wanted to contribute to that process. Was it time in the not too distant past when people who worked in russia for the United States war not viewed automatically with suspect because this was encouraged by our government as we tried to help them move from what was the soviet union to something more we hoped to a market economy like ours. And then were you based there are no a Financial Company and lived there . Yeah. Me and another guy open it was Merrill Lynch the u. S. Investment bank. We opened their office there in 2004 and it actually its kind of related to the overall transition to the markets approaches, because in 1998, Merrill Lynch was one of the few banks that decided they were there was a Big Worldwide eme. Ing markets crisis and russia was hit hard and theyre decided to shut down the office. So fast forward six years later and russias then the biggest, fastest Growth Market in the world, and theres a lot of privatization going on, and again sort of more of a transition towards free market approaches. And so me and another guy ended up heading over there to open the Merrill Lynch office. Last point on this, and this all plays a big part in the story of what ultimately happened to you, but of course it is not unusual if you are businessman in the former soviet union, because of the way the economy works, if you Winston Churchill doing business with russians you were coming comingo contact with russian government officials and coming into contact often times with people who spied for russia, russians s who or provide intelligence for the russian government. Absolutely. Id a fa philosophy its useful to tell the truth and help serve your country to the greatest extent you can. That was my philosophy when i served in the navy throughout those years, and i had through a lot of different work i had done, various contacts in the u. S. Intelligence community and some people i know asked me for help. So, again, ive always served my country in various capacities, whether its as an eagle scout or catholic altar boy, serving my community, and as well as in the navy. When i was asked, i was more than happy to help, again witch the view that if its useful to provide accurate and insightful information, and since i had lived and worked there throughout for now its been over 25 years, it would be useful to provide insights and could be helpful no our country. You having been a source in the past for information for our fbi and cia, ended up really being thing that drove in the nail in the coffin in this operation that thats government had with you and essentially the Trump Campaign. The book, abuse and power, tells the whole story, where can people order the book . Well, my theres a website, carterpagebook. Com and that gives options in terms of where whatever book seller you prefer, amazon, and the full range there. So its all available. At carterpagebook. Com. And in case people dont know who i am, im an Investigative Reporter with a history of working at pbs, cnn, cbs, i happen an independent show now called full measure on sinclair sunday tv show that you can find online and ive written my knew book is called moyland how the news media taught to us love cent choreship and ahead journalism our stores both involve the governmenting having surveilled news an improper and or lawful way. Thats what chapter nine of carters book focuses on, called overcoming the abuses against american democracy, talk boaz surveillance. Ill read a short passage from that and then you can provide some context. You wrote the ill legitimate case against me revealed several other forevers of dysfunction, talking about government spying on you. When i was targeted with four applications for fisa surveillance you say, the applications were filed under title 1, which defined me as a possible agent of a foreign power. Now as an aside, you have provided intelligence for intelligence agencied that were secretly wire tapping you, claiming you could be spying for the russians. And you write but i wasnt the only target with my surveillance the federal government could make two hops from me, listen in on people talking to you, and people who are communicating with them, which would include the fbi reviewing your private data, private data from steve bannon, and steve ban nons contacts with donald trump inch this respect the carter page warrants were a direct assault on the first and Fourth Amendment right of all americans, and you say this is isnt a partisan issue. People from choose the spectrum see it as an american issue. So, as this unfolded, when did your start to believe they werent just after you, they were trying to get to perhaps President Trump or others on the campaign . Well, its interesting, sheryl, because i actually through my contacts in the Intelligence Community, i had someone give me a heads up, even before the first one of the main defamatory articles which was used by the comey fbi to get this fraudulent warrant. In september 2016, contact of my win tithes to the Intel Community told me the democrats paid quoteunquote Opposition Research people to dig up dirt on then candidate trump and his supporters, such as me. So i knew that they were in the process of trying to come up with lies primarily with the initial idea of just pumping it out to the media and getting people to a real Election Interference Campaign to deceive american voters, and this is again just a couple of months less than a couple of months between the 2016 election and then sure new york on september 23, 2006, even though im getting all kinds of questions from reporters, finally the washington post, new york times, cnn, all asking me about these same false allegations which the democrats paid for and theyre consultants were trying to push out in every way possible. Finally they found someone who is either a Media Organization that is either unethical enough or gullible enough or possibly both to go ahead and publish this article on friday, september 23, 2016, and really the rest is history because again this is one of the elements in part of this election interference where this these false stories were used as a way part of the fraudulent fisa affidavits against myself and people i was associated with. Other Trump Campaign volunteers back in 16. Lets say that by way of summary the thing said about you in part to get the wire taps under false pretenses, these secret wire tap applications said you were either already acting as russian spy or imminently about to become one, thoses to the qualifications. You can not a wire tap somebody in our society just on a hunch or a fishing expedition. You have to already have that evidence in hand some other way that either already acted as a russian spy, like for another country, terrorist, or about to become one and the fir fact they wire tapped you four times over the course of a year without any evidence to charge you with anything or do anything about it, seems to belie the nose you were about to do anything. But part of the evidence claimed that you had visit russia and made improper contacts with certain russian government officials as a liaison for the Trump Campaign. Is that a fair summary. I think it is and an important interesting insight goes back to your personal story in terms of having to deal with similar things if know as part of your ongoing battles in the courts related to this, its very similar to what we have seen over the last several years for Senate Judiciary chairman Lindsey Graham. You have been making various allegations with a lot of basis to it, and unfortunately people within the u. S. Government, department of justice, which handles all civil litigation and investigations such as this, they unfortunately have innovate been very supportive at all in terms of providing the full information about what happened, and its precisely the same thing that Senate Judiciary chairman Lindsay Graham and his colleagues in congress have been fighting for so hard. I think were all in this battle together and its very much the focus of this chapter here in terms of understanding everything that is at stake and how it fakes so many people such as yourself, myself, leaders in congress that are just trying to protect Civil Liberties and so its a very long complicated story and ive tried to make it as simple and as understandable as possible with this chapter, while also illustrating what exactly is at stake, just given the civil rights abuses or potential abuses that were all susceptible here. Lets call it the ultimate catch22. The very Intelligence Community and part of the government committing the pusses and in charge of holding the perpetrators accountable and you fine they have no desire to do that. Or to provide the information that would allow us to do that in court. They hold all the cards. I didnt just happen to you or me mitchell information says there were many operations, hundreds if not founds of people involved over short time periods and over longer time periods and other administrations, not just one administration. There are probably too many people to count who have been involved in potential because of their Constitutional Rights and we may never know. You wrote in chapter 9 he Senior Department of justice lawyer Michael Horowitz revealed that the breakdown in surveillance state has been much worse than we originally realized and an examination done of 29 of these fisa wire tap applications reviewed were possible abuse after they learn about yours, all 29 as serious deficiencies, and inself case the Inspector General could not even find the document that showed the fbis mandatory processes were followed. Inspector general revealed something that has been apparent to many for a long time you wrote, the whole system of secret surveillance is broken, and that is what you say getting at the heart of how this impacts people if they say so this happened to carter page, maybe hell get redressed in the end. This is much deeper than that. Absolutely. There are so many different dimensions and challenges related to it, and again, its a little bit of a spectrum. I think as youre saying. This is a serious problem that has happened for impacts all americans on the one hand. This is a core element of First Amendment liberties and First AmendmentConstitutional Rights. In addition to having freedom of the press, theres also freedom of thought and freedom of peaceable say september by and so many freedoms inherent in the First Amendment and unfortunately what you have sometimes is when people have a different view or when people journalists such as yourself might Say Something which is not exactly what the powers that be again, my the indent that started with me happening during the obamabide Biden Administration and sometimes you have happen political actors working to achieve their political objectives this ace great story that youre about to tell. Another bit of, like, wow insight you gave me when he interviewed you for my program full measure because people may say why target carter page . Well, theres some evidence they were looking for anybody surrounding President Trump. Best case see anywhere you they throughout trump was a russian spy and looking for russian ties. Worth case just looking for excuses, anybody who had been to russia or had experience in that region, to try to justify a wire tap to listen in on them. You with your experience with some of the fbi, they talked with you in the time period was at the boston bombing. Yes, i. Go ahead and take it from there. Well, its funny. The right after the boston bombing in the first half of 2013, i was helping the fbi with a particular russian spy case in new york and unfortunately i was writing in terms of certain approaches that should be taken. Had just recently read a little academic article, and i had awe of offer that is in in a meeting with the fbi agents, i mentioned hi various perspectives to them and i think theres a severe bias, this big inspect youre general report that led to the initial fisa use record as to these abuses that the Trump Campaign and myself were that were were inflicted upon us. That was serious. It extended far beyond that. One of the elements of that and one of the big debates is the Inspector General horowitz and obama appointee who said that, well, we dont find any political bias there. It was an interesting conclusion iryoure onlyot of people who talking to the same bad actors theyll i i begging them to let me provide input and this is another example of Civil Liberties not be respected, number one, but also the rule of law not being respected, because there is the privacy act of 1974 which gives american citizens, if the government is keeping records on you, you have the right to review that information, particularly before they distribute it to the entire world. And so there are lot of problems in that december 2019 Inspector General report, and i thought it was really essential that i get i help set the record straight. Thats when if decided to write this book, because there was this story is just so incomplete and i just wanted to tell more of the full story in terms of everything that happened as part