Will leave this program to go live to a conversation with florida senator marco rubio. Good morning. Im bob costa, National Political reporter here at the Washington Post. Welcome to Washington Post live in another special any for the Texas Tribune festival. Today my guess is senator marco rubio, republican of florida. Hes been summit ive been covering for over a decade since he first ran for the use senate back in 2010. Senator rubio, thanks thanks for being your. Good morning. Thanks for having me. We are 49 days away from the election. You serve as chairman of the Senate Select committee on intelligence. From that seat what is the biggest threat to our president ial election in terms of foreign interference . I think first we have to break up foreign interference into two categories. One is meddling and the actual architecture and mechanics of election. And then the other is sort of af the message, sort of the psychological operations and a war for design to divide against each other. In terms of putting messages come that yearround. What there addresses this would produce a look at all the preexisting fractures in our society and they push on that. They use social media increasingly what youre seeing is there using, they will create a website somewhere. They may even hire americans to write on the website and put that out there as real news content. Thats an ongoing challenge and that is yearround all the time. Thats going to continue to be developing over the years to come and the three is if you get a country to fight each other intimately, which would abridge a pretty good job ourselves, you try that, it weakens that country and society overtime. Thats the first part. The second, and its related to the first is, can i miss with elections . People think about as chemically change votes . Is probably the hardest thing to do any meaningful way to influence the outcome of the election. More concerning to me is a situation where you can get into accounting elections eight counties election system, to delete voters and to strategically so all the voters are from one party so you pick a democratic county where a democratic Election Officials, but republicans of the once when the show to vote are not allowed. Allowed. Even though the get a provisional ballot and your vote will be counted this narrative will get out there that republicans not being allowed to vote, or vice versa. Then if its a close election you then use your influence operation to promote the narrative that in some parts of the county, in some parts of the country in certain counties partisan Election Officials were preventing democrats or republicans or people from a certain racial ethnic makeup from voting. All that designed to create chaos and questions about the legitimacy of the election. That would be their dream and that would be the biggest achievement that any adversary ever scored against us in an election cycle is just bring us to the point where people, we believe, half the country believes person whos going to be sworn in was not validly illegitimately elected. Its a great threat to our republic and the way i tell people to think about the 2000 election, but on steroids. 50 times worse than that, breaking out of multiple places and it will not be about hanging chads. It would be whether someone was cheating on purpose. Its a deep concern and our adversaries who have the capability to do and at least three with intent to do it to some level. You mention state websites take websites and fake accounts. His book removed some of those things that were created by russian operatives. What new can you share in the final lap of the campaign about what russia is up to in terms of meddling . Its if ill be on that and if ill be on russia. Its not just about fake account where it is a bot that has a name on it and a facebook account. Im talking about you create website, create some news agency or some sort on the internet and it really is promoted and sponsored by a fake. You hire some americans who willingly or unwillingly use it to write up stories that look like news reports. Then you get people to organically spread it online as real news. That spreads. I think thats one of the challenges all of us need to be aware of is just because it looks like a News Organization doesnt necessarily become one. We have reached a point now where its difficult to distinguish, and ill be frank, with all due respect a lot of americans already question the mainstream outlets. They view them as places where they promote notice, not news stories. Its this huge model people are naturally drawn to report that further the preexisting notions and that affirmative preexisting beliefs that become attractive for people to read articles, even if its a source you never heard of, to read articles that confirm your preexisting bias on policies. Thats an ongoing threat but its one that we will see sort of a difference what we seen in the past. Is the russian government stoking Racial Division at the time on social media . Yeah, i dont think theres any doubt russia, iran, china, particularly iran and russia are constantly in search of what our fractures, what are things to get americans fighting against each other . It helps them by weakening as internally. The more were at each others throats in this country the less capably art of governance internally or around the world. But it also helps russia and some extent i ran domestically where they see these of the people that are lecturing us about democracy and freedom, and they are chaos, they are destroying each other. This is what socalled democracy at least the version of the western version of it looks like. Its a twofer. It helps them by weakening as and then helps them geopolitically but it also helps him domestically by going to people and say this is our system of governance, but it didnt be the american system because look whats happening over there, they write, they are incapable of doing anything, fighting with each other all the time and so theres no doubt if theres anything that is deeply divisive in america, they dont create but they will drive it, do everything they can to drive it. Beyond russias youve mentioned china and iran. Weve done a lot of coverage of russian interference, someone chinese interference. Can you share any specifics to help us learn more about the extent of chinese interference in the election . I think when it comes to china i would look at their tactics and the goals are a little different. Chinas gold what i think, i dont have any doubt in my mind that china doesnt want donald trump to be reelected, i think they measure that against i concerned that their involvement is revealed, they will, that would be counterproductive for them. But ultimately chinas approach and its not new. Using american corporations of big business interest in china, they unleashed upon the american political process and the use leverage to in that regard, but the chinese gold is to try to influence american goal towards chinas preferred position. That could eventually extend to going after individual candidates in an election. It takes all sorts of form, from punishing a Congressional District that would trade measures all the way they have the capability of doing everything russia does and more so. They have hacked and leak capabilities. We can foresee them when they use that against individuals they view as china hardliners and what have you. They have the ability to do it and its just a question of, and we really wouldnt see the intent to do it properly until after its been done. But they have the capability to do everything russia does and more capabilities than russia in cases. More capability than iran and its just a question deciding how far they want to go and because it do think not that they are more measured because they worry more about backlash if their hands is revealed. They can be more cautious. I have been reading many of your recent speeches and theres a comet or refrain from this phase common good capitalism. If you took the praise and applied it to your work as chairman of the Intelligence Committee you do support the free market but should social Media Companies like facebook be more regulated with all of these threats from abroad . Thats a great question because its a new question. Are they a publisher or are they a content site . I think they have, thats a good question, heres the problem, theres a complexity that races. What is the fine line between foreign interference and narratives on social media that are domestic, but that may not be true . The truth of the matter is as an american the First Amendment does give you the right to say things that are not true. Obviously there are limits to that, if its going to cause panic or cause people to hurt each other, you cant do the proverbial screaming fire in a movie house with you did. But that said the problem, when you start going after the speech of political figures because they dont agree with their political narrative, then it gets complicated. Its a tough to talk about. I certainly think eventually its a nation will have to grapple with. My view of it is for the most part they have tried to be a . Of going after it come some more than others particularly facebook is been more aggressive about identifying foreign sources of false information and trying to eliminate them from those platforms. Whether the regulation would make it closer is something im always cautious about because im not sure in the end we can define or closely regulate how that content is dealt with. I would much prefer to enter into a collaborative compact with him that clearly delineates the difference between domestic political speech and for efforts to interfere or spread propaganda within our country. I dont have a tough one to work through. I do think however social Media Companies are going to get into the business of being publishers where theyre going to edit out information they want in first is not and then they should be treated as as a publisher inclg for purposes of liability. If something would have to grapple with. I dont have all the answers on it but certainly recognize the problem i think were making some headway on some spots. You brought up just down the challenges on the domestic front, which are happening in your own state, this qanon Conspiracy Theory i was reading an article the other day, eduardo, pollster Florida International university in your state said the Latino Community in florida is dealing with a quote on slot of issues related to this qanon conspiracy that is spreading around florida. Are you alarmed about that inside your state . More broadly, in the u. S. I would say two things. I dont think those conspiracy theories will have anything to do with the outcome. In many cases the things that been promoted out there are all theyre doing is as i said reaffirming peoples preexisting positions on politics. As far as conspiracies are concerned, this one in particular yes, it is ridiculous, stupid to some extent and very dangerous. 1 thing is to see these things out there and take it for what it is. Another is have some of who already has some challenges and sees this stuff and decides to take action and somebody could get hurt. That part about it concerns me very much my deeper concern is we are a society and a country in which people are vulnerable to this sort of thing. At the core of every Conspiracy Theory is a fear, the fear that fear is what drives this and so weve reached this point the fear, insecurity in a country where people are likely to believe some ridiculous Conspiracy Theory than they are what they see reported of what their leaders tell us. Really is a warning to both leaders and those to those whot the news about how important it is that they do Everything Possible to build up and protect and secure the credibility both for those of us in Public Service and those of us who report on our work. Because in the absence of it leave a section of a population vulnerable to what could in some cases be very dangerous, in some cases stupid but many of the cases very dangerous conspiracy theories that could lead an already deranged person to take violent action against someone because they believe that person was a pedophile or when a child sex ring or something along those lines. Senator rubio, when my question here on election security. You have seen this complaint, whistleblower complaint from senior dhs official saying that in short, he was pressured by the white house by dhs to stop providing intelligence analysis on the threat of russian interference. You are here in this interview today have a candid conversation about interference. As chairman of the Intelligence Committee have you ever heard about the white house or acting secretary freshening officials by analyst not to say certain things on russian interference . No. I havent come and have seen in the reporting either. Everything ive seen and all the work done but all of our been pretty straightforward. And to the point on all of these things including the Public Disclosures who have been, they have been identified by name and sanctioned an individual in ukraine. The sort of russian efforts. That said, there is a process in the law for whistleblower complaint is handled, it is referred when its revealed to congress, the commission has jurisdiction in this case our scope its an intelligence matter, we have a process for handling it so we begin the process. As us and we handle this way we will handle any whistleblower complaint the comes forward. We are going to it seriously, run it by the book at our staff is already working audit and well get to the end conclusion on it after we done that work. So we will treat any whistleblower complaint that way and the process has already begun. Lets trim back to this tension between your freemarket conservatism that shape the early part of your career and still does to some extent, engineer focus on china. When you speak about this i give, good capitalism and you look at the pandemic, should the u. S. Be doing more to ask pharmaceutical companies and ppps manufacturers to produce goods and products ppe in the United States . So first of all i think the final question is why do have a market and an economy. The purpose of our country and people to serve the market and economy or is the purpose of the economy in the market to serve people . I think the answers so obvious. The economy is the means. The ends of the wellbeing of her country. Im a supporter of Free Enterprise and capitalism because i believe it is the best system to deliver the best results for our people and for our country and for the common good of our nation. That said, i recognize freemarket one of the things i love the Free Enterprise is and will always reach the most sufficient outcome. It will allocate capital to the most sufficient use. And oftentimes thats a great benefit to the United States of america. Every now and then it is not, it is not in the best interest of her country, the most efficient use of capital is to make pharmaceuticals in china or to make certain manufacturing combats certain Manufacturing Company overseas. But thats not always in the best interest of the United States. Its not in our best interest to depend on china or any other country for that matter for an overwhelming percentage of the active pharmaceutical ingredient in our genetic medicine or personal protective equipment. And i would extend that in our best interest to depend on china for significant percentage of a Rare Earth Minerals that we need for technology or our manufacturing and installation capabilities and telecommunications and in 5g. In those instances in which the most sufficient outcome is not in the best interest of our country that is working as an obligation in my view to create incentives for the private market and for Free Enterprise to do that activity within the United States. And sometimes that best interest is because of national security. Sometimes that is because the jobs that industry creates are the kinds of jobs that allow people to raise a family and have Strong Communities that they are part of, and thats good for the country, too. But senator rubio, lets say that these tax breaks or incentives for companies, pharmaceutical companies to stay in the United States, and a working americans is why do these Companies Give enormous tax breaks now to stay in the United States and my Small Business doesnt get the same kind of basement level tax breaks . Well again it was not necessarily geared towards the large company. For example, one of the things we try to do to my chairmanship and Small Business committee is find ways for more sba programs to be about making it possible for smaller and new companies to enter that space and create competition. What i would argue those incentives are already in place our laws already incentivize Large Businesses to do things. We have for example, incentivize them to move manufacturing overseas and then friendship ts back into the United States with the Free Trade Agreement at very low prices. Some make goods for less somewhere else and send it into the United States for sale. We already have incentives that i am kissing incentives are the wrong ones. People are going to incentivize behavior issue the behavior that is good for behavior in behavior that is good for american jobs to be created because thats what would help our country be