Transcripts For CSPAN2 After Words Peter Strzok Compromised

CSPAN2 After Words Peter Strzok Compromised July 12, 2024

Interviewing top nonfiction authors about their latest work. All afterwards programs are also available as podcasts. Adam hi my name is adam. I worked with the hard times times for about four years. Ive covered National Security including the fbi in a reported extensively on the fbis russia investigation. Its known as crossfire hurricane. On a think piece for coming on and having his frank discussion with me. He actually came up with the name crossfire hurricane. So much and how he came to use that code name. But before we get into the details of the book, that you have written about. One is you tell us a little bit about yourself and your Counter Intelligence back out of the fbi. Peter first thank you to cspan for hosting. I started in the in 1996. Ive been in the army prior to that and then college. When into activeduty and then was with the fbi as an analyst with domestic terrorism back in 96. I saw the organization and the ages in a new but that was absolutely what i wanted to be doing. So i applied. And then in 98, and then from there, went to the academy for his assigned work to the cia thats what i did for my entire career. I was in boston working the case in the series of russian illegals. Basis of current or past coalitions to the americans. A variety of bread and butter counterintelligence work that incurs in a midsize office. As was russia and china and espionage, economic espionage. From there, from being a street agent and then moved up the chain. A lot of the espionage focus is then increasing to a broader focus and working a lot of china and russia. In of the whole gamut of the counterintelligence work that the bureau does to the point were i was a deputy of the Counter Intelligence division. And then help called the fbis counterintelligence operations. From there, worked the clinton investigation and also on mueller steam. And then i stepped it out with fbi personnel. It and was removed from that and returned to the Research Division for about a year. Until i was terminated in 2018. Adam before we launch into this book. Describe us between the difference between the primary intelligence investigation is and what a criminal investigation is that the fbi. I think that has been lost upon the public. In the midst of everything. Peter so criminal investigations frequently what the public think that when they think of the fbi. Theres a bank robbery earth organized criminal digits there trying to build the case. Theyre looking at law which of course those various laws upon. Demonstrate the evidence and have to including in a courtroom, where it will stand crossexamination by defense attorney. Unable there is to prove or not to be able to improve the study violated the law. Intelligence work is really different. Counterintelligence, snoop and the fbi has been doing that for generations and generations of the coming on shore. Northeast coastline anybody for that are the world war ii. Looking at what foreign nations are doing from an intelligence perspective. That is really different from criminal work. In the Standard Division comfortably the material is classified. And the case is closed could get a person killed or destroyed Sensitive Information of what is going on overseas. So the goal is also fundamentally different. As unnecessary to prove that a crime occurred. The goal at the end of the day is to get an understanding of what any foreign nation whether it is russia, china or iran or cuba you name it. What theyre doing from intelligence perspective and targeting the United States. With the fbi, legal encountering that intelligence activity. And again until very recently, very quiet line of work. Classified nobody talks about it. Spy case would be made and public imagination. But by and large what they do in the counterintelligence arenas to meet the circuited and need something not talked about. Adam why did you decide to write this book. For years he was essentially maintained your silence in congress 90 come out with this book. Which is obviously highly critical. In the United States President Trump. In accused him of being and people around him. Why would you put yourself back out of the spotlight where trump can torture your twitter. Peter because the threat he poses is too important to ignore. It continues to this day. One of the reasons was to have an accurate account of what accord. Theres been a lot of recounting and twisting of the historical narrative and bipartisan individuals seeking to twist but didnt didnt occur. Which confused to the state. I wanted to book that could be relied on to be an accurate factual representation of exactly what we did. In 2016, and 17 and all the way to the court date. We just wanted to get the reader into the mind set of the Counterintelligence Agency what they think and how they see the world. One Counter Intelligence works is for that is. What were concerned with the one that is different from criminal court. In the last thing of course is the highlight, the threat continues to come out of the white house. Things have not gotten better. Directions are still attacking us of people need to understand why russia is doing what theyre doing. And also the unique threat that exists within the person of President Trump why that is so advantageous to brush up the why russia continues to try to get him in this case, reelected. Why should we take your word. You have been cast as a villain. A sacred member of the cabal. This morning to take down the president. But as the narrative among the Trump Supporters. Namely based on your testament. And type of bias. So you claim that you never found or they never found anything but you are among a fbi official trump has targeted. In the Trump Supporters think are as dirty cops. Why should the public believe what you are writing. Peter a couple of reasons. Like historical record. Speaks for itself. Part of a layout cases that worked. The outcomes of those and why and what we did the reasons we did it. Able to be collaborated and people can see the facts and go back and verify them. The reason they should blame is independent books have been done, over three years and 15 or more animals looking in every best thing i did, every email every note. Every communication, all of which have been concluded melanie but the entire team, there was not evidence of improper motive. Add multiple attorneys to look at the actions after the fact. In all the investigations the tried to extend an ultimate all the media. All of these things in these deep investigations that come up no indication and no evidence that things were done and improper considerations. The president cannot begin to a press conference or town hall without Fact Checking in each event putting out the numerous and frankly fly spread things and he says that are not true this not a oneoff occurrence. Occurs time and time and time again. Folks in the media, literally thousands of untruths that he is entered. Others that have been lumped into this crazy conspiracy has occurred to me that the bipartisan, being dumped specifically to undermine any sort of valid investigations because he is trait and trent afraid of what is there and he does not want the truth known anybody, not just if you have of the people like you abundant anybody dirt speak the truth is immediately attacked because they dont want the truth out. Adam this leads me to some of the things that you write in the book. One part you are cast as a central who villain in this. What is convenient for the President Trump allies, you are truth teller. Walk us through a couple of accounts in the book the coyness. Almost like a conundrum. Walk us through how you handle the company memos regarding conversations with President Trump and also you were interviewing general plan. And expressing that he did not have any signs of deception. But yet he lied to you. Walk us through those accounts and how they fit into this conundrum. Peter so the fact of the matter is on at the truth. In both sides of the debate, people can find things to support their arguments and rebut the arguments. So some things, some of them are both tending to favor of my credibility and on the other hand, seek to undermine it. In the example is general flynn. He knew we were there to interview him. He was dangerously and recklessly but i cannot say, we knew we had reviewed the conversations that he had. He knew that he discuss things like the damping of the russian response in the obama administration. We know he had spoken about and asking russia to moderate or voted for certain way. So before we even walked the room, he had talked to the Deputy Director and told him you guys know what i said. What you need to talk to me. You have it. At the same time, in response to that, he has for his attorney decided he didnt think one of one. A few hours later, he did it leaving the white house. Honey sat there knowing what were good asking. To three weeks after he had conversations with this with the president and the Vice President the chief of staff in the white house counsel. A new full well what we were going to talk to him about. And timing time getting the southern did not tell us the truth not only that, a lot of people when they lie, the cover the mouth sprayed the lick their lips, the look away. The rios the question. Didnt do any of those things. Doesnt mean he wasnt lying. But does mean theres something going on there eateries a very good liar all right thought he was telling the truth or Something Else was going on. Proportionally left written were talking about it but might interview partner night with jackson is really not because he had boy didnt get any kind of visual ornate show of deception to make you think that he was lying. But at the same time, he clearly had. He pled guilty twice to two different judges orally and in writing that he lied to us. So we get back and were trying to explain, this make no sense. And yet he doesnt choose to tell us the truth. Hes not doing anything that looks like hes nervous or looks like hes lying. So when i relight all of that and some of that goes into our right of the interview. Someone comes up later in the discussion in an interview. Photo right sees that as give me just dont think he lied. Their credible experts and they know what theyre talking about and uphold the rights. It was me. That was the one who said it. You know this up as a standard of somebody absolutely incredible. Then on the other hand cant save not credible. An unbiased. Adam so on the one hand your writing accurate coming right that general flynn does exhibit signs. But you also want to take them down. Can you explain that contradiction. Because i dont get it. What i dont get it either. It is something that might interview partner and i took the lead on any given to me in i made subsidence changes made on my recollection the confirm with him, i think is happening that. That is what he said. David somebody was an excellent proofreader to sit there and say this is grammatically make sense. Less common. Ultimate review it. But this was some of the crazy extremes its a this was rewritten several times. My partner and i began the traffic and conducting process. Some may take the lead in writing the ticket up to the partner was there and review it. I just think, and things because you have to bring together at the recollection of two people. That is what is covered. In the three oh two, it represents what general flynn said. And as we took, all of that is been turned over not only now to the department of justice but provided to general flynns attorney. There was nothing unproduced here. There is no secret here but again it serves as a side of life some great Conspiracy Theory. That theres no activity going on. It just didnt happen. Adam also are the country diction here. Your critics say in the fbi, they said that you will in there to trap him. If something revealed in any trust him. But when you read about these documents have been made public, you see that jim coming on the 23rd two sides that you guys are going to ask questions but then by the 24th on the day you interview general flynn, coming decide you can red back snippets of the electronic stats. Going to entrap flynn, why give him the benefit of reading the snippets of what he actually said on electronic intercept. Why give him a chance to tell the truth. Peterpeter this was not a perjy chat. But whats interesting about that as you point out, not only overnight, becoming think about it and save you give him some of those things you said. I noticeable in the interviews to give him the opportunity to tell the truth with the relationship with russia. That was the purpose of the interview. Surprisingly department of the justice it was odd because i rebutted some of the things that the government is arguing in the recent filing. I hope the court now will get to the bottom of it and hold hearings to try and understand what happened. But ended the day, right. Limited there because we needed to understand what his relationship with russians was. We decide in the fall and winter, not coming up with a lot. Were looking at them see whether or not he was a potential match for what george, this allegation the government of russia and the release of material would be damaging to obama and clinton. We had looked at flynn because there was a lot of connections to russian potentially one of those folks can mightve heard that. But in the fall and early winter, in the director had been briefed. Probably only to close the case. Betty had agreed. When you get these intercepts between flynn radically changes our understanding of his relationship to the russians. And suddenly he becomes again a focus of investigative interest because of his relationship to russia. The field office wanted to close it in the form of the fbi stepped in. Adam pete, another theory is it was an intentional leak in the Washington Post about plans because. Right hard that the right is very upset, he was meant to take out fun. It that late rate of it is true that you already knew about it. Will before that was revealed in Washington Post. Think that was early january. Obama had asked the Intelligence Community to figure out why food intended responded. Device on your holdings that flynn in fact had talked to him. Did that leak matter. Are you going to interview him anyway. Or was it convenient for you. I think youre right about it in the book. Walk me through that. It. Peter as you know, any of the i, was leading investigation to the leaks to the media. So for any years,. Adam i dont condone that by the way pete. Peter im hold both of those with my head at once. Look, if the section chief is the supervisor feels. I investigated countless illegal leaks of information to the media. Several people in jail for doing it. Adam im not going to answer that. Peter is not something we do. The first amendment. Supreme court ruling the rules are set but the absence is not. That leak in particular and anxious to have an impact on our investigation. I was very concerned. If you look at my kind of communications i made at the time for this. Thomas deeply concerned about the impact the leaks were having our investigation. The crazy Conspiracy Theory that it was all part in organized plan for look at the repeated concern about the way the government was hemorrhaging as fight information. I was impacting our investigation. Those are not the words of a man seeking to undermine trump. This lowers of somebody wants to highly conduct an investigation to get to the bottom of the truth. And discourage and bothered that this information is coming out. It was not ideal and put us on a much more compressed timetable. But what it did do a split things out into the open. And frankly when things become public, while not great. One thing it does is it gives you a reason to go ask about it. Stuff i know something in a classified way. You talk to them its going burn that source. Is a big newspaper article about it will it gives me a chance together and say hey, i read this article like you did great can you explain it. That was part of that pushes on the path. Adam one last thing on. I think one of the arguments is that you work very concerned to retaliate. Reaction with the attorney general and very concerned with the Vice President pets went on tv and said, flynn told me he didnt talk about this which we know is false. When you heard that, when pence relayed that story, what were you thinking at the time. Do the elevated why do you needed to talk with him. Was it even a greater concern. And i think one of the things i cant remember if it was in the motion to drop the charge against him but it was idea or maybe garcetti. He can remember this was a political issue. Him lying was not a crime it was something that shouldve been dealt with at the white house. Son fbi matter. Peter so i disagree with that. We did not know what was going on when he made that statement. We knew it wasnt true. Either pence had been light duties repeating the light. Which he claims is the case or in the alternative, theres something seeking out there to cover up the conversation between flynn and russians. In a might include others in the white house including Vice President pence in may maybe even trump. Russian and just intervene in our election that is undisputed. Even between the Intelligence Community and others. It is very clear and undisputed that russia intervened to assist trump in getting elected. Sore trying to understand what the nature of that relationship was. But at the end of the day it is important to know whether or not he was knowingly lying to us are not telling the truth. But at the end of the date on the much more fundamentally important issue in question is was he doing that because of something that trump told him to do or otherwise directed him to act. And it wasnt going there and figure out what he said or did it say because you really know it. The underlying question was is this something that flynn is doing in the context of the rest of the administration. And interestingly, that key question, muller asked. Trump refused to sit down to be interviewed. And you can see all the questions that were asked. And that set of question is a very detailed list of these

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