[instrumental music] hi everyone and welcome to the National Books festival. My name is anna lehman and im the executive director of the womens Suffrage Centennial commission. Im here today with megan twohey and gail collins. Both incredible authors and writers and journalists and i cannot wait for you to hear what they have to say. I mentioned that im the executive director of the womens Suffrage Centennial commission, the commission is a very proud sponsor of the National Books festival this year, we are the sponsor of the fearless women trail, which is featuring authors who are fearless just like gail and megan also books and stories about women throughout American History. Its just really a privilege to be here in this place today with these two women. Id like to start us off with some brief introductions for gail and megan and then we will kick it off. Megan is joining us, she is the author of she said breaking the Sexual Harassment story that helped ignite a movement. She is a Pulitzer Prize ab Pulitzer Prizewinning Investigative Reporter with the New York Times. Gail is also from the New York Times, she joins our staff in 1995 on the editorial board, later became an oped columnist, in 2001 she was appointed the editorial page director. Shes here today to discuss her book, which i have right here behind me, megan, im get a hold your book up too. Here we have gails book no stopping us now the adventures of older women in American History. Should we get started, ladies . Sure sure. All right. Im going to kick us off with kind of an easy one. Megan, we will start with you first. Would you tell us a little bit about your book she said and how it came to be . Megan the book that i coauthored with my colleague jodi kantor, another Investigative Reporter at the New York Times, came about because after we broke Harvey Weinstein story in october 2017 we watched with wonder as the dam broke and women all around the world came forward with their stories of Sexual Harassment and abuse. Watched with wonder as the me too Movement Really spread around the world as we saw this global reckoning over Sexual Harassment and abuse. We really felt like we had an obligation to continue reporting and to take readers behind the scenes of this investigation that had helped spark this reckoning. So much of investigative reporting takes place behind the scenes and is confidential and we really wanted to take readers, give them a front row seat to the first hushed conversations we had with our resources from famous actresses to women who worked in weinsteins company, we also wanted to report into what had happened on the weinstein side. We realize that in that first story we have been able to piece together some of some aspects of the puzzle of how this powerful men had been able to get away with abusing and harassing women for decades but in reporting this book we were able to help illuminate so many other factors that have explained how he was able to do that. The institutions and the systems that had enabled Sexual Harassment and Sexual Assault. Not just in the case of weinstein but so many other industries here in the united states. Host just so you know, as a reader of your book, you absolutely do what you set out to do. As i was reading through those pages i felt like i was falling your journey of investigating that story from start to finish and it was gripping, it was gripping the whole way through. Gail, would you tell us some about your book, what its about, and how it came to be. Gail i want to say first that ive written a bunch of books now about history but its a real playeal privilege t here with megan who made history. So nice to be with you gail. [laughter] host do you two know each other . You both work at the New York Times. Do you know each other in that space . We have passed and met but in a whole different area of the building. Yes. Gail with a range like that because of a [indiscernable] we dont get nearly as much chance to hang out with the newest side. Megan this is different for us. Host gail, tell us about your book. Gail i wrote a book a while back in which i ran across a letter from one of the early american columnist, writing back and asking for people to please send them the women so they could get married and have families and that they wrote, the women must be a good character and under 50 years of age. I thought, wow. [laughter] they are not that picky back then, suddenly i remembered afrom the 70s ba they started out saying, these days 25 is getting to be very old i thought, wow, we went from 50 is young to 25 is old. Thats how i got started on the whole looking into what it was like to be an older woman at different points in American History and what they got away with and. Host i love having the two of you in conversation with each other for this panel because what you both really get at, your books are about womens experiences and womens lives. Both throughout American History and now. There is that Common Thread that runs through both of these books and if you are larger work that both of you do. I think putting you in conversation with each other for this dialogue is perfect. Lets pivot a little bit. Megan, your book is really about your investigation of the me too movement, about Harvey Weinstein, for people who havent read your book at, could you talk us through a little bit about why did you and jodi decided to write this book . What sparked the idea of, we need to put this down on paper, weve done our investigative reporting that, as gail said, made history and change the world, why put it together into a book . Megan one of the reasons was that we realize that, as i mentioned, we realized that when we broke the weinstein story we had learned a fair amount about this powerful producer and his decades long history of harassing and abusing women but really understanding more of how that abhow is it that powerful men in this country have been able to get away with that year after year, decade after decade. We really felt an obligation to report further into those questions. To report into the question of complicity, how was it that weinstein worked, weinstein ran some of the most prestigious phone companies and powerful Film Companies in this country, miramax and then the weinstein company, we realized that these companies had glimpses of this, the bosses privation, including weinsteins brother, bob weinstein, the cofounder of these companies and work sidebyside his brother for years. And the board of his company. We really wanted to report into the question of complicity when people get glimpses of wrongdoing, what do they do in response, harder they try to stop it or do they look the other way. We wanted to report into these secret settlements that have been used, weinstein we were able to piece together a financial trail of payoff that weinstein had made over the years to silence as many as 12 women who came forward with allegations against him. There was this one moment in the investigation when i was on the hunt for a woman who we thought had been sexually assaulted by him when he was a young assistant working as a young assistant in his company and i drove to a family home of one of her Family Members had a home outside new york i drove up there was like a handwritten note i was going to give this Family Member s making the case for why she should talk to us and the woman herself actually answer the door and she said, oh my gosh, i cant believe you found me in the second thing she said, ive been waiting for this knock on my door for 25 years. Yet she was legally prohibited from telling me what had happened to her like so many women in this country who deal with Sexual Harassment and assault shes been advised by her attorneys her best option was to take money in exchange for silence. We really felt an obligation to try to explore more of the secret settlements on what they meant and how theyve allowed predators to cover their tracks. It was clear that there was much more of the weinstein story that needed to be told as basically an xray into abuse of power in this country. Then we also realized that we wanted abwe never couldve predicted the way that the me too movement was ignited following abthat our story had played a role in this me too movement being ignited. We knew it had come to mean so much to so many people so we really wanted to give people a awe wanted to take people inside the New York Times newsroom and into our partnership as reporters and to watch journalism in action and see how you built an investigation like this that can have such a huge impact. Reading her book i was reminded that you all basically through your reporting of this, we take it for granted now but following the paper trail of these nondisclosure agreements. That wasnt done before you all figured out it was a way to prove the pattern of behavior. In reading her book i was reminded of something that now seems obvious and clear and of course how the investigation happens, but that was just a few years ago you all uncovered something very important. I would actually, i do a little bit of a correction to that which was that we were actually taking a playbook that had first been created by our colleagues who brought bill oreilly story. Thats right bill oreilly was 400 million in secret settlements to women who had come forward with allegations against him. These were women who were locked into silence for the secret settlements. Emily and mike were able to basically piece that financial trail of payoffs together and when they were abwhen those stories were published the impact was immediate. Bill oreilly, perhaps the most famous and powerful figure and conservative media, was fired from fox news something that had seemed unthinkable just nights before. It was the moment of the New York Times where the editors and reporters came together and asked the question that might seem now quaint, which is there other problem for figures in america that have abused women and covered it up. That was really how the weinstein investigation began and we were really fortunate to be able to draw on some of the tactics they used but we were in consultation with family throughout our investigation saying we are about to get trying to get these wanted to talk what you think we should do. We were really grateful to be able to draw on the previous reporting. Thats another theme between the two books is really giving voice somewhere where womens voices had been taken away. Gail, im reminded of that in your book that often times with women, women have a very couple get a relationship with aging. That society has handed to us on a very dicey silver platter. Your book really speaks to that and speaks to the power of that and the beauty of that and the comp located in so that. Could you talk a little bit about what was it like to research that topic and to bring life to this topic . I think when you do this stuff you just read and read and read for a while. You kind of fall in love with different people in your story. You want to figure out more about them, tell more about them. One of the ones a [indiscernable] the thing that fascinated me what she came up in an era where women were dying to talk about abolition and rights of women to vote and they werent allowed to because the idea of women speaking in public was regarded as so shocking like a sexual thing. Any time women would try to speak in public they would throw things at her like she was a horror, ruin her reputation so they didnt. What she figured out was, i am old, i am a grandmother, look at my gray hair, very old, i cant possibly be a problem, right . What she had gotten that safer if youre all there is a woman to go out and do things, not the same kind of shock. She was trained across the country abhe had a million adventures. She spoke to a million different people. I just love the way she figure that out. I love that. And the executive director of the womens Suffrage Centennial commission, suffered history of course is very important to me, especially this year with everybody out there listening this year is the 100 Year Anniversary of the 19th amendment and womens right to vote. A very important milestone in american democracy. Gail, you talk about Elizabeth Cady stanton, you talk about Carrie Chapman catt, you talk about alice paul, you talk about sojourner truth, you talk about several suffragists, one of the things i love about Elizabeth Cady stanton, as a mom myself, she had babies on each hip, babies around her skirts, she was still just bold, radical woman her whole life. Can you talk a little bit about the investigation and the research you did and the writing you did about the Suffrage Movement in your book. Gail it came up a lot. You find it in a lot of different places. Ive been thinking about it a lot this week of course, it came up again. Youve got to have income of your own, theres one thing that what i read in history thats taught me is that women who can bring in money, women who make money for themselves and their families have a whole different status in life than women who are confined just to be in housewives and mothers. It wasnt there doing for stock and Different Things they went along and moved to cities but i wonder this about the sexual a athe fact that right now since the 1970s theres been this transformation of the economic role of women in america, it was in the 70s that suddenly because of one thing or another married middleclass couples no longer support their lifestyle with one income and women had to think about working their entire life not ideological purposes, just to meet the standard of living they wanted. Once you got to that point and once they abthe woman also have to go into the workplace they are expected to end in positions and relation to men that they never were before. I dont know if in the entertainment business there been that much interaction between men and women. Working behind the scenes 40 years ago. And updates a danger as well as a great lesson. Is that right . I think not just the work, not just our women in some ways that might be stating the obvious but not just our women working on taking on paychex but what positions are they holding within various industries. And trying to figure out how it was with the weinstein, and 2015 and 2015 it was actually one of the rare moments when at least one allegation against Harvey Weinstein burst into public view when this model this model from italy had reported to a work meeting at his within hours of leaving had gone to the new York Police Department and said, i was just sexually abused by the producer, they want charges brought at the time but there were headlines and so we knew that the weinstein company, the other executives in his company and the board of outsiders overseeing the company were aware of that. In the course of our reporting we realized in that year they also learned of other allegations that there was actually a junior executive in the company who actually submitted a scathing mental outlining all this alleged harassment and abuse by weinstein. That the board saw and so what are they do that year . They renewed his contract they renewed weinsteins contract and to try to figure out how Something Like that couldve happened i always thought it was very interesting to note that the board of weinsteins company there was not a single woman on that board. I always wondered, yes there were women working in the company, even women working at high levels, but nobody on the board, no women on the board. What would that have looked like over the years that there had actually been women on that board who read those memos who saw those headlines . At such an important thing to think about, women and our voices and what spaces we occupy and power, both your books have an undercurrent of the dynamics of power at play for women in the world and how much that matters. Megan, could you talk a little bit about the reception of your reporting and the reception of your book . Megan its interesting, ab when we started the weinstein investigation we knew there had been other journalists who had tried and failed to do the story read also learned closer to the end that roman pharaoh was also working on the story and close to the finish line as well. So there were times when we would be knocking on womens doors and contacting sources people whod worked in weinsteins companies or otherwise in his orbit and there were people who said, you are not the first reporter weve talked to theres other journalists who have shown up on our doorstep. Some people said not only did they show up on our doorstep but we talk to them. Only to watch those stories, those reporting efforts, die. Come to a screeching halt. We heard time and again. Weinstein is so powerful hes gonna find a way to tell your story, hes gonna barge into the New York Times hes going to people just didnt have a lot of faith about the story was going to ever actually make it into print. We said listen we cant speak to the experiences youve had with other journalists or other news organizations but we want you to know when we show up on your doorstep we are showing up with the entire support of your times behind us. After the publisher aware of the stories and weinstein was in fact contacting them he was one of the many things he was doing to try to stop the investigation but we as an institution were committed to if we were able to nail the fact if we wer