Vision of what america should look like there was a story to be told and talk about Barry Goldwater that this one is a story and then one version of that with the series of books that talks about where the pundits and the experts when we would become a social democracy that is different from the rest of the country one in which conservativism dominated up until today. Host you have been watching the program our guest is available to take your phone call. Here is you can 202 is the area code seven or 88200 eastern and central 202 7488201 mountain pacific with the Text Messages and your name and city to the number 202 7488003 we will think. How should we in your you conservativism versus populism versus libertarian . Thats an interesting question identify as a populist times. In coming out of the 18 he is and that we are ripped off by the banks and then that merchant of the Democratic Party now im having brainwave. Host i am having the same one. And then to become a democratic nominee and secretary of state and since then to be manifested through the new deal and the liberal tradition and the basically setting up american institutions and it has existed and that basically tells a story in which the hardworking press simultaneously and to talk about College Professors and liberal media and those that are living on the dole sense of those of the living in you saying the word populism. And libertarianism is the tradition that the government should have no holes in the economy with that european they should be active with the favored ethnic group and what was the last category . Conservativism capitalism . Yes. Guest these are names we get to complex realities people attend the ways to figure out how the world works. So in my word i dont get to lost in the abstract of what people call themselves and im telling a story how americans understand their own lives and their political. Host we will begin with michael and also with author rick pearlstein. Caller im calling from. President mann tulsa oklahoma and president obama did not but i wonder why and as a very diverse candidate and then we have all kinds of movies and spanish it is not authoritarian and an attempt to elected the American Republic has survived i think the American Republic as unshakable foundations and not to get so panicking because white house words vicious and i know you live in new york and the results so there is no reason. Host i think we got the point. Guest i live in chicago, not the work. Right now i am in Marshall County illinois. I hope youre right that this too shall pass every great civilization or higher that ended that their foundations were unshakable. I hope you are right. Im not so sanguine about donald trump. He is an aspiring dictator and reveals that more every day and 90 percent support. I hope we overcome this. Host Anchorage Alaska please go ahead with your question. Caller yes. I want to discuss Ronald Reagan. I remember that. In history to speak about peaceful coexistence of social Economic Systems and i assume those social Economic System means everyone has access to medical care and prescription drugs and employment, childcare and various other entitlement. And when i was a child were not having any Health Insurance and i was sick all the time i came to regard the scientific socialism system and someone of the humanitarian kind of support for the citizen. Host i think we got the point. Rick pearlstein anything you want to respond to . Guest yes the soviet union was a wicked place with very little freedom. But at the same time the country is of western and Northern Europe have shown you can build a society with lots of freedom and dynamism and to guarantee the right to go to the doctor when you are sick and those places have three universities and a lot of those scandinavian countries have high level of social mobility a child is more likely to do better than in the united states. So i thank you have to be for the soviet union to believe. Host a text message i grew up in milwaukee how growing up outside of milwaukee formed your thinking if it did ask. Guest definitely did because growing up in the eighties it was very boring. That turned me into a historian and milwaukee was segregated for those areas of the city we call that the selma of the north and that has had an impact on me politically also as a historian and wisconsin and also my dad was a small businessman and those of the goldwater movement of the sixties and i was fascinated by and the child is the father to the man i am proud to be a midwesterner and im proud to be in chicago. Did i mispronounce your city go ahead with your question. Caller the question i have is since the seventies in the role of again regulars on revolution is basically the same and the election of donald trump is just anger over the population for now he has gone into office you have seen why one lied. You said a fascist he has no underlying radiology one ideology. It is all about me. I was a republican but i changed my affiliation but i hope somebody else gets into office otherwise this is the end of the. Thank you. Guest there is a new book it looks wonderful it is called strongman and it shows that fascist dictators careen from place to place and then i want to ways to dismiss the intelligence of that nature of Donald Trumps talking about the 20th century fascist dictator. I think the point you make about the stagnating and count in his extraordinarily important. Those that voted for the Democratic Party are disappointed by the Democratic Party. Dont forget jimmy carter a liberal and military and also talked about the necessity austerity and budget cuts to cancel popular words and budget cuts to cancel popular words he would be vague to preserve to create jobs and the point of the Federal Reserve chairman that in tuesday recession and paul voelker to bring the economy out of recession closed factories at the same time to help the investor class. At the time to say what paul voelker was doing under carter with his approval words like roasting a pink ride burning down the house. With a sense of alienation and what middleclass existence. Host and i believe the author of that book is bruce if i pronounce the name correctly publishes november so to follow up on that last call what do you foresee if trump is declared the winner . Are we so divided . Guest i have an unfashionable opinion to be divided is not a bad thing as long as they are willing to abide by elections it doesnt matter how much they disagree but if they are phase strongman with the results of the election to see why more and more to have the attempt to retain power because now we know from the New York Times that he has those if he is not president cannot exercise the power he could be in a desperate spot and desperate people to dangerous things. And i will listen. All the elements that contributed are narrated to understand the presidency better from the book. What was the other question . The debate. I love writing about the debate. We take it for granted now but we have to remember that the first televised debates between the two Party Nominees was the 19 \60{l1}s{l0}\60{l1}s{l0} and the only reason that could happen is because they had to spend the rule that the federal Communications Commission or Election Commission came later that they upheld that every announced candidate from every party had to debate before 20 people were on stage and they basically got around that but it was very easy for the future incumbents like Richard Nixon or Lyndon Johnson to avoid debate and it was only through some very clever lawyers on the part of the former aide and there almost wasnt a debate in 1980 and then there were three candidates and which candidates would be included. I will say a couple things how i write about it. First of all, going into the debate, the two candidates were pretty much tied. Somehow imagine he dominated for most of the part but after, Ronald Reagan shot ahead like a rocket and the fundamental reason is they believed Ronald Reagan, not everyone of course but a lot of people believed he was an extremist and bold. That he wasnt up to the job of the presidency, and they were desperate to have a debate. They were frightened to have a debate because both sides fought maybe jimmy carter would reveal Ronald Reagan to be a shallow person that wasnt up to the presidency. One of the things that happened that was striking was Ronald Reagan said many things that were about his records. The first instance he said he had never been suspicious of Social Security. In 64, he was very antiSocial Security. When carter pointed that out, reagan made up a story that didnt care much correspondence to the truth but he said it so charmingly that jimmy carter thought he had an advantage he didnt really have. He tried it again by pointing out that Ronald Reagan started his political career in the early 1960s as a paid spokesman against the idea that later became medicare, free medical care aged out of Social Security. And that was absolutely true. The record album was a proxy party for women and was designed to kind of create grassroots pressure to make it impossible for the president then, john f. Kennedy, to pass that bill. But instead of saying well, i changed my time, Ronald Reagan lied about that. He said he had proposed one bill instead of another bill and now the concept of medicare was completely made up. And Ronald Reagans b reagan y carter started tearing into him, and Ronald Reagan looked at the camera, gave a charming grin and said there you go again. It was a crack. Somehow he charmed the audience, the media, the people at home that jimmy carter was unduly attacking him, unfairly attacking him. The guy that made his reputation as a politician and a an an ordy man was somehow turning. The result was on election day he won a landslide. One quick story, peter. When the carte corridor speechwr and white house aide, later for the new yorker, told me that when carter when reagan said there you go again instead of acknowledging that he changed his position, the reagan people were excuse me, the corridor people were embracing each other. They thought of that reagan was falling into their trap. Athe headline the next day is Ronald Reagan lies about his record on the Social Security and medicare. Up at the headlines were all about how Ronald Reagan charmed the nation. Host while, lets hear from karel in cedar rapids, iowa. You are on booktv with ron perlstein. Caller do you have any ideas on how to eliminate this huge deficit that we are under 22 trillion approaching, and also, does it matter . Guest i dont think it matters. When you can borrow money like america has, less than 1 of that money that we borrow becomes the seed money for social investments that is greater than 1 , then we can borrow to our hearts content. Less countries have less then the gdp and they are doing better. One reason people dont like that is it might hurt their investment. Of that theory has been proven wrong by the pocket. Jimmy carter responded to inflation. The reason we have inflation is high deficits and now we have massive deficits and of no inflation. So i think this idea that the deficits are always harmful is a very dangerous myth. When you have a business and you fund that is called an entrepreneurship. At the nation isnt going to go to business. We have this debt that we are servicing at a very cheap rate. It doesnt have any longterm consequences unless it becomes much higher than it is now especially if the rate is so low. Host finally, lets hear from lisa in oregon. Go ahead. Caller host lisa, are you with us . It looks like we lost lisa. Rick perlstein, how strait is the line you can draw from Ronald Reagan to donald trump . Guest it is crooked, but theres a definite line. I think of the revelations right now the donald trump paid 750,000 in taxes last year and a zero in the years before. It was revealed he paid no estate taxes because of the business reverses into the New York Times revealed today they were paper losses created by the company that created tax shelters for people that advertised it as individuals wouldnt have to pay income taxes. Then when he was caught up in that he said we fought a revolution in our papers and once again he charmed his way out of the crisis. That is only one example in which the parallels between [inaudible] are real and striking differences. Reagan revered emigrants. Even in the texas primary against of george w. Bush he saithings aboutundocumented imm. He declared an amnesty that was pretty profound. The both of them are working very hard now in the case of donald trump to weaken the protections of the government offers and to make life safer and healthier for ordinary americans. Ronald reagan cut the budget for the department and also by 80 . So, you know, history is the study of continuity and change, and you will see both of those elements in my book, reaganland. Host and we have one minute left. Jam in king george, virginia. Please ask your question to rick perlstein. Caller hi. I am not a partisan, neither democrat or republican or thirdparty. I am a person who studies the election process in order to make up my mind. Four years ago when i came home to watch the results, i assumed that hillary would win from everything that i was hearing from the media. About i never could quite figure out why. And then as the evening