And especially with whats going on in the United States, no one was more consequential and has been more consequential on the question of race in america than Frederick Douglass. Way ahead of his time. He was not only an abolitionist and and a passionate abolitionist as a former slave, but he insisted from the earliest times, in the 1840s right through his death almost toward the end of the 19th century, that equality was the goal. And he was, he would take no deviation from that. He was very clear about what the goal was. And so many of his words ring true today, and i really recommend the biography for everybody. Its a long read but its really powerful. Host one of the things i learned about Frederick Douglass this year was thatalso a very active suffragist. Guest yes, yes, absolutely. He was very consistent. And, you know, had a distinguished career and, you know, was able to talk to mixed race audiences at a time where that was unusual, to say the least. And, you know, was willing to take on the powerful when they had bad ideas. For example, Abraham Lincoln in the beginning of his presidency who was really fixed on this idea of colonization. So well free slaves but move them to some other country because, clearly, integration in america will never work. And Frederick Douglass would have none of that and took lincoln to task. And i think arguably could say can take some credit for changing lincolns idea about that. So just douglass is up this with our found up there with our founders in terms of where he belongs in american history, and this biography is long overdue and really a fine piece of work. So another book i dont have with me because ive lent it out, but the biography by George Packer of Richard Holbrooke called our man. Unique. Ive never read a book like it. It is not a traditional biography. It mixes opinion with facts and chronology. Its not your traditional biography, but it is a powerful book. Its really a powerful book about a man in washington who sacrificed almost everything for vision, to climb up that ladder. Talented, bright but, you know, really destroyed family relations, destroyed personal relationships and friendships of long standing and, you know, just con consumed by ambition. He also had some accomplishments. He was credited being the author of the dayton i accords that ended the balkan wars, and when he died, he was the special envoy for afghanistan and, you know, had really made Great Strides in trying to tee up that issue and get america to look at its involvement. But at the end of the day, kind of a tragic figure in terms of what he was willing to do. And its almost a morality story about power in washington. And a cautionary tale of what gets sacrificed. So really powerful biography. I highly recommend it. Host did you know him at all, congressman . Guest i had met and interacted with Richard Holbrooke on several occasions during the course of his career. I cant say i was an intimate nor did i serve with him or work with him on any kind of a project. But he was clearly a towering figure but also, i think in some ways, a tragic figure. And anyway, i think its one of the best biographies ive ever read and completely different style, not your usual biography which made it so engrossing. Im so taken with it, aye given it away ive given it away multiple times for people to read because i think its got a lot of lessons for people in the place where i work. A book i just read recently by Sidney Blumenthal, always powers on earth. And this is the prepresident ial history of Abraham Lincoln, but its so much more than that. Of its really a sociological and political, cultural history of the tumultuous years between 1856 and 1860. So much gets sandwiched into that fouryear period that made the civil war really inevitable. Everything from populist sovereignty from Stephen Douglas to bloody kansas and john browns raid in lawrence, kansas, and ultimately harpers ferry, the scott decision. The dred scott decision. These are four really important, pivotal years that led to the civil war. And Sidney Blumenthal goes in depth into some of the main characters; Stephen Douglas, Charles Sumner and others. And its just really a great piece of history. Lots in there that that one might not normally know. And one of the characters who really comes out badly from a historical point of view is Stephen Douglas. Really a demagogue willing to sacrifice all kinds of principles to advance his career. And, of course, he tragically failed in that endeavor. But meanwhile, did huge damage to the country, returning the missouri compromise, opening up territories to slavery where it had earlier been prohibited and, ultimately, pleasing nobody. Not in the south or in the north. A really good piece of work. The burning, which is by tim madigan, which is the story of the massacre in tulsa of a really vibrant and successful africanamerican part of tulsa, greenwood, and the massacre that took place was awful. I mean, its actually hard to believe this could happen in 20th century america, but it did. Hundreds of africanamericans killed. I think ultimately burned to the ground 36 square blocks of this africanamerican community, churches, businesses, all of this. And, frankly [inaudible] the africanamerican population until the end of jim crow in the 1950s, 45 years later. It is a gripping story. And, again, given whats going on in americaed today, understanding the history of white violence and the insecurity of the white majority at least at that time and leading to really reverse the economic and political progress of a very vibrant africanamerican community. In fact, it was called the wall street of black america, it was that successful. But, you know, for some reason for a long time america kind of forgot this important part of history. And it really needs to be revisited because the horror of what happened at the hands of racists led to unbelievable violence. And i think its a real contribution to the kind of discussion of Racial Justice in america. The book homecoming, i dont often get the chance to read as much literature as i would like even though im an old English Literature major, but this book was a beautifully done, beautifully written novel. And it kind of juxtaposes the evolution of both slavery and race in america with really the story of ghana, where and how people live in ghana prior to slavery and during the enslavement period. And its really a beautifully done book. Shes a very talented young novelist, and i think really has a future. And i know she just came out with a new book as well. A book that really got me, and that is killers of the flower moon by david graham. This is a book, again in oklahoma, where a white, you know, power elite murdered a number of native americans who had land titles and had royalties for Natural Resources on their land and were swindled. And in order to have deeds transferred to almost always whites, embezzlement, fraud and murder, numerous poisonings and some assassinations of native americans in order to get their land. This, again, plays in the 1920s in america. This is not ancient history. This isnt, you know, the old indian wars with of the mid 19th century. This happened not that long ago, and it it is an unbelievable story and deeply disturbing in terms of, again, the power of racism and the power of greed. But its something really about our history that people really need to read. I just finished the enormous book called jerusalem. It is the history of the city of jerusalem, and it takes you from, you know, the canaanite period, the incursions of the venetians and ultimately the romans and the greeks and the islamic period through, of course, modern history. The sweep of history, when you read this book kind of all at once, really strikes you. What also strikes you, sadly, is how jerusalem is defined by violence. You know, the constant killings, the constant [inaudible] and massacres all for a territory in the name of the sacred. And we realize that remains unresolved today in the middle east. And its really a sweeping history that gives you a sense of perspective. I dont know if it gives you a lot of hope, frankly, about the future of the middle east, but it really does but put a lot of what were dealing with right now in a very important context in terms of this is not new. And so much evil in the name of the sacred occurs irrespective of the religion or the period of history. Christopher lemon, a great book [inaudible] not so much of [inaudible] and how he built an empire from his perch in kansas and how he used it to influence politics in america in, certainly, a very effective way. He used his money to build think tanks, to insinuate himself at the universities by entowing chairs or creating endowing chairs or creating schools. He used his influence to build a Grassroots Network and then applied all of that to legislative initiatives that reflected his libertarian, government stay out of our lives philosophy. Now, were going through a pandemic where we understand that, actually, we need more government right now, not less. And that kind of flies in the face of the koch philosophy. But anyway, this is a great book in terms of giving you a sense of who is charles koch, where did he come from and wheres he going. Another book well, let me talk about two i like, given between history and biography, i like to read histories just to sort of unwind in and escape, and two ive discovered recently, one is whats called the nordic noir school, this is called the island. But he, all these mysteries take place in iceland. Theres this bleak, stark landscape background of murderous activity going on and sort of a loner inspector whose life has not worked out well who, nonetheless, was intrepid and undaunted and follows the mystery to where it needs to go. And then another one thats just incredible, colin cotteral, ive read four or five of his books now, he created this mystery detective who is a 72yearold coroner for the new liberated communist laos in 19771978. And hes a former guerrilla. He is a medical doctor, and hes kind of disillusioned with communism and where his countrys going but finds himself as coroner pursuing mysterious deaths. But cotterall, a, is a good writing and, b, takes you back in time to revolutionary laos in the 1970s and recreates that place and whats going on in a way that really is quite masterful. So for a little escapism, great writing. And finally, i want to talk about midnight in chernobyl by adam hikingen higgingbotham. We talk about Nuclear Power sometimes as if its the unexamined alternative to fossil fuels, and thats true, but when something goes wrong, its catastrophic. And this book, in the words often of the victims of chernobyl, really quite gripping. I mean, the suffering, the heroism and the coverups by the soviet government really are told beautifully in this book. And, you know, the series that, i think it was hbo, did on chernobyl, i think, in some ways might have benefited from this book and some of the accounts in it. But its a piece of history that ought not to be forgotten. And, obviously, has huge consequences politically in leading to the downfall of the soviet union because of its nonperformance, its bureaucracy, its lack of empathy and ability, frankly, to respond to the Worst Nuclear Disaster in modern american history. Host congressman go ahead. [inaudible] host im sorry . Guest i said those are just some of the things ive been reading. Host well, how are you getting your books these days . Is your local bookstore open . Your local library . Amazon . Guest el well, i would say sort of all of the above. So i have, i have a huge Library Including books i got for the hold holidays, even cspan provided me with some books. Friends know to send that, you know, thats the gift, you know, for birthdays or anniversaries or holidays. And i have a lot of friends who share my love of reading, and so we and we have similar tastes, so were sort of sharing books back and forth. So i had no dearth of Reading Materials during the pandemic, and im a voracious reader. Before i go to bed, when i wake up in the moment, when i have a free moment, i read. I think reading bondens your perspective broadens your perspective, challenges your preconceived notions about life and history and philosophy, and i think its one of the most enriching activities a human being can engage in. Host there are several contemporaneous accounts of the Trump Administration coming out, bob woodword, michael. Schmidt, etc. Woodward. Do you read those when they come out . Guest ive read a couple books on, actually, sort of the psychological profile of donald trump in terms of whats going on by those who have really studied that. I dont generally like to read contemporaneous history or memoirs because i think theyre too close to events to have a perspective that would maybe be lasting. But i do make exceptions. Bob woodward is one of them. Ive read every bob woodward book ever written or printed. Finish so i intend to read this one as well because i think he really has a knack for being able to get inside and get people to say extraordinary things they probably otherwise wouldnt. And they do give you insights to whats going on. So that one i, for sure, will read. And my friend, michael dantonio, also has written several books and is coming out with a new one on the impeachment of trump this fall, and i certainly intend to read that as well. Host congressman connolly, i want to go back to Sidney Blumenthals book about those four years before the civil war. With the. Hindsight of 160 years, was there a point during that four years when you read that history that the civil war could have been avoided . Guest honestly, i dont think so. Unless the north was willing to live with slavery or the south was willing to say were setting a timeline for its elimination. And, you know, echoes of the past resonate today. It was all fueled by firebrands. Some of them were hotheads especially in the south who really wanted to fuel the politics of grievance, the north is out to get us, were going to lose power. Remember, the civil war in many ways was also about the fear of the transfer of power. The southerners had controlled the Congress Almost from the beginning, and they protected what they called the peculiar institution all that time. Including doing very antiamerican, anticonstitutional things like blocking petitions in the congress about slavery which was the cause of John Quincy Adams in the years he was in the white house [inaudible] he was seven sure censured for refusing to recognize a ban [inaudible] the right of the people to petition the government. And that was all about slavery and power in the south. And as the south saw a growing Abolitionist Movement in the north and a north that was expanding, they decided that their only future or the firebrands, but not just the firebrands was, frankly, to separate. And i think it was inevitable. I think even without the events that occurred in this fouryear period, 18561860, i think the table had been set for end separation. And a violent separation at that. It took a leader like Abraham Lincoln to understand that we cant accommodate secession. We are one country. And he also evolved in his thinking to understand that to preserve the union we actually had to end slavery. That was not his view when he first took office. In fact, he he had said, you know, if i could preserve the union by preserving slavery, i would do that. If i could preserve the union by eliminating slavery in some places but not others, i would do that as well. If i could preserve the union only by ending slavery, that too i would do. So when he began, it was all about the union. But as the war went on, he understood that, actually, it had to be more than that principle, that aspect. It also had to be about what kind of union we were going to have and needed to be. And that needed to be a union made up of free men and free women. Host knowing what you do about the antebellum period,inging having lived through 1968, how would you put todays world in context . Guest i dont think the country is as torn asunder as we were in 1968. I think we came very close in 1968 to this country just, you know, dissolving into something less than what we think of as the United States of america. There were so many forces pulling us apart, and the divisions were so enormous about race, about the war. And today we are also a divided nation, but i think whats different is theres a clear emerging majority that wants to see a more progressive america, that wants to address the fundamental issues of racism, Structural Racism in america. Starting with our law enforcement. That believes that we have to empower people and expand liberties and deal with issues of inequity, economic inequity, Health Inequity the pandemic certainly has exposed that. And so i, in some ways, am more hopeful today than i was in 1968 having lived through those turbulent times. So, you know, having said that, i think, frankly, the president and his approach to issues, his governance represents a clear challenge to the continuation of constitutional democracy in america. I really do. I say that as a member of Congress Living with it every day. And that has to be addressed in this election are or were going to go in a very different direction than that envisioned by our founders, by Abraham Lincoln and by lots of us who lo and care about our country. Love and care about our country. Host finally, congressman connolly, we talked to your colleague and friend, republican tom cole of oklahoma yesterday. He said you two talk about books quite often. Guest toms a great guy, and he, hes a very thoughtful member of congress. I mean, hes not, hes not somebody who just has a kneejerk reaction id lodge iically or idealogically or pa