Transcripts For CSPAN2 P.J. ORourke A Cry From The Far Middl

Distinguished scholar it depends on the meaning of distinguished is a Research Fellow pj work. I say im going up aj. I was in college the most popular magazine on campus was national and i remember quite a few any beds play cannot them because they all have ethnic stereotypes and gender relations over drug use is all now forbidden then moving on to Rolling Stone Foreign Affairs desk chief week because they paid him to do whatever he wanted to go right to the roots and televangelist retirement villages mystifying so moving out of the rocket stage he became a correspondent the simplest magazine writing about medicare Reform Campaign finance reform and now moving into the age of retiring in College Tuition now editing a magazine on finance and investment and ran an article by me its called american consequences so by my count the offer 20 books including holidays and how all the trouble in the world and eat the rich one of the funniest writers around and has more citations numerous quotations than any other living writer but what people often miss when they talk about humor is what an insightful analyst he is this is a very funny book but a very perceptive analysis of a modern democracy if you radiate the rich how countries get rich and why they dont then all your of economics at most colleges. Thats why i recommend those two books as a Christmas Gift giving friends and family and Expensive College course in science and economics and the existential despair tonight his latest book a crime is a pleasure to welcome the hl mencken Research Fellow at the Cato Institute, pj work. One work. Welcome back to the microphone and to get out of the way in the middle of the road we was yourselves i think everyone seems to be libertarian between the poles of the angry left and the angry you write and trying to be reasonable is the regular left for the social conservatives going straight down the middle and get the message out right now because the country seems to have lost that. Host in 1980 charlie with a libertarian president ial candidate and for a couple of days and then to say we never make it in what is extreme sending american boys to die in countries theyve never heard of taking half of the working mans wages, that is extremism there is such a thing as an extreme libertarian it is nonsense. What they really mean is the anarchist. Without her anarchy we like law and individual labor liberty, dignity and responsibility. So with anarchy i spent 20 years as a reporter i have been to mogadishu and over the summer and the United States and over the summer and the United States and how it looks in portland if anything extremely or extremely reasonable and we try to think things through and apply logic to the heat and the swamp and the words of politics is not a very logical thing and it probably needs logic applied. Host talk about a Libertarian Center of lower taxes and freetrade and staying out of other peoples business an extreme agenda on left and right to libertarians those cohabit . A lot of people have a gut feeling called common sense and what we say makes common sense and our attitudes make common sense. But the position and i will research and analysis does not make is headlines. If it bleeds it leads with that 24 hour modern news cycle with his sleeves and it will lead just not sleazy and violent enough to attract the kind of attention that we need to attract to your paper way as you point out the extremism of their views what is fundamental to libertarianism willing to use logic and reason to change our minds. We are faced with a group of people at the moment who were not about to change their minds of those that have a mind to change. Host is a lot of talk about socialism i saw positive is a 30 percent of americans have a positive image of socialism are the only one third occur describe accurately what socialism was. Another humorist, family blessed one label its root years ago as a High School Student she drew a very anticommunist because thats what they taught in high school and then in college became leftist and procommunist. But then she discovered beyond college that according to their ability and their needs is not a decision i care to lead to politicians i believe the ability to, humorously on the scene with one bear weight with comrades. Truer words were never spoken. I actually address that problem in my book which is i basically ask why are our kids communist in so leftwing . Have you really forgotten the real horrors of communism . I figured i did the math in the fall of the berlin wall is as long ago as the Great Depression is for me and with the beginnings of free trade and free market principles that is as far back as the piece back of the 19 twenties. Who dont remember how truly bad socialism when all armed up when it comes and coke and marxist maximum from each according to his ability into his need that there is one little part of society from each according to his ability and his need the they are most familiar with the matters called a family kids are growing up there is mom and dad doing what they can to provide to kids with what they need so its very tempting to carry this from each according to his ability and his need the actual childish attitude into adulthoo adulthood. Hayek talked about that and a good moving place to place and to get the food and then to make the obstruction it works in a family, it doesnt work in a big society. You cant scale it up. It is a sweet feeling why people feel this way. And we as libertarians now like to anyone but you cant scale it up to the size of the nation. And the reason you cant do that is this thing called government which is necessary with a certain number of people concentrated in one place you need something called government. Government operates on the basis of course way of family to operate on close personal ties you can have close personal ties 320 million people. So we create this thing called government which is limited for the individual with a family with a small group of civil society. And those that which we cannot take care of is a family. But that government is in place if you get a traffic ticket and you dont pay it you can to find the new will go to jail and if you escape they will shoot you write down to the parking meter on the corner of your screen will be enforced by government by force. I did mention your books are better than a course in political economy they could just start with your chapter big fat politics with the new book. I think they could in the parking ticket is one example. Every time Us Government to do something so one should always ask oneself what i should my mother maybe not go at gunpoint so what i told my mother at gunpoint . I think thats something that can be privately done without any danger to my mom. Bless her heart she is no longer with us. But then to say to be overrun by nazis . That would be an extremely bad thing. And you realize and hear about polarization and what happens to liberalism socialism and nationalism. When you have a nation that is so internally polarized that does not mean we are not under the exterior threat to bring us all together it is not not naturally and a homogenous country and with those ties of language and not united by a ties the ancient territory and with this frontier mentality and then in some ways it is artificial and then we try to tend to unite with over is bombed in 9 11 happens we come together. It is a luxury for us in the United States is election to have a court rolls out in the open with screaming and yelling in the street and it shows us in the current epidemic will bring us all together and it is the domestic sickness is not the same as a foreign threat to cause a man on Community Around americans. Host you finish the book and to make the best everything and then when you talk about the pandemic he wanted to be a great novel coming out of this called on the couch. The jack kerouac of today who can leave his mothers house. It is a strange phenomenon and the right thing after. With the pandemic with the george wade protest that has come from that may emerge from this what the government does and what it should be and on the other hand spending seven months locked in the house and all those getting angry and frustrated that could lead us to emerge from all of this angrier because that is how human nature works. And im betting on human nature then he showed learn to tie a necktie. Sorry. [laughter] where zuckerberg did have to go handinhand to congress. Thats only time i see meant so you the inaugural address. You for either candidate will give that address . No. That in which the concern is basically and isnt even mentioned and told page eight or nine that is even mentioned before the presidency in the constitution is the senate. Im commanderinchief by congress has the power to make war and peace. Not me. Why is my duty are the laws passed by congress are enforced not getting any particular mechanism than that more illustration to be president of the United States so dont blame me for all that bad things in the United States. And to make sure the workers are closed. And we will be hearing that from anybody soon. Host he worked book called the court of the presidency also the idea and that the president would carry them out and now we wait for the president to give us a budget. Congress should write the budget and then the president signs it unless it is unconstitutional in which case he should veto. Right. Simple enough. It is beautiful if you can read small type get on six index cards. And that is 400 pages long getting into how much protein and fat are allowable in pork sausage. That is why the eu has the problems it is. Host a question from kevin moore, talking about polarization from dispatches of a divided land, were parallel between now and the sixties and seventies which was to much worse and angry. . With that distance and time it is sufficient for comparison comparisons. But the fundamental differences here are very very different. The anger and the divisiveness and the violence of the 19 sixties had to do with some very fundamental issues. We were dragging people out of frozen schools and sending them off to a place they have never heard of to show people they have never met. And the vietnam war is an example of government getting completely out of hand. That was one element of the divisiveness of the sixties that is about Racial Discrimination not until the Civil Rights Act has been passed and begun to be enforced, tremendous legalized injustice in the United States mostly at the state level of the south. People were angry and died to sacrifice their lives to fight this. People murdered to defend this terrible idea. That was a big question that resulted in a certain amount of violence that is not a surprising factor. And then a change of social mores between the older generation and the greatest that we dont have anything comparable to right now. With huge changes in attitudes with sexuality of all kind kinds, drug use but more fundamental things now about sex drugs and rock n roll and racial relations and fundamentally libertarian attitude of the Younger Generation government toward the authoritarian attitude that had grown up early as a result of the depression and to among the older generation. So of greater import and those that are dividing us now. Host do you think the current plans of left and right populism will drive people were like him to a more classical Libertarian Center . From your mouth to gods ear let us hope so. Societies do not sustain themselves will and with those that we are having right now. It is my greatest wish and hope and for the people will react to the left and the right with the idea not that they showed agree upon everything with oldfashioned conservative is important to go away and that is what people to argue in rational terms the heart of the liberals once everything to everybody and it can be quite sharp how in the heck and then to go back and have a sensible argument into the world. I hope so. The internet the government relies on force but there is a important difference between legitimate and illegitimate based on consent. In a democracy agree to be find running your they were the implications of this difference for libertarians . Right. The government to have a legal monopoly on deadly force we dont want everything settled by do is word gunfights at the okay corral. We have a construct with a legal monopoly on deadly force. But what can happen under those circumstances is given the authority in a sense to a thirdparty, it can get out of and. I have no sympathy with the vandalism and destruction going on but at the other hand the Cato Institute has been professing for years of the militarization of race and turning them into an Occupying Force in certain neighborhoods instead of this what they should be i dont have a lot of sympathy with the riots of was set them off. Host call asks if theres any possibility curbing the use of executive order for this and future president s . That would require a time machine. See you think the lesson of the vietnam war would be to return the warmaking powers to congress with those military intrusions on their own were sometimes i go to congress for some time so we do seem to learn that lesson from the vietnam war and im not too optimistic about is learn the lesson of executive orders not only by this president but the last president and the president that going to the time of lbj all the way down to andrew wilson. Woodrow wilson. And then to create the law of the land. In the power to declare war and all of his presidency has taken and one of the very best president s and starting the strand to a more powerful presidency and then as a practice and will send them into of the branches of government and one of them has been eating most of the other. And there is a tendency by the executive and legislative branc branch. So we have a tripod that the government stands on the phone or to the legs are getting shak shaky. Host deborah says she heard you speak at the university of wisconsin many years ago and she recalls you said you are not a libertarian. Have you changed . I am feeling i was asked if i was a member of the Libertarian Party. To which my answer is and would be and still is no maybe a more conservative side of the branch a libertarian or terry and in some. You are speaking with irony. [laughter] but the question of the Libertarian Party and with the ship is recognized as Political Parties you cannot make out of one of the parties if you donate as much of a nickel to either side then you have to join that party will call to carry around there is no credo there are vague tendencies that have a lot to overlap and sometimes dont those that think government to think the government is the problem and then to those two ideas in your mind at the same time and then to for our government forms so they are not mutually exclusive im not a Libertarian Party member because i dont consider america to be a Political Party system and i have been involved for all these years that the Cato Institute and our job is to analyze things and that analysis out there as forcefully as we can and makes a big difference the way legislators and bureaucrats and executives think about things. Not as often as i would like that sometimes it does. To me libertarianism is not a political position it is a form of analysis it is individual liberty and individual responsibility and way of working and that issue largely through that lens of individual liberty and dignity and responsibility. Host interesting questions about history. In past culture wars was the degree of intolerance with the opposing points of view we see today . Yes. You but they are lynchings about this. This is nothing new. And by historical standards is rather moderate. And the real culture war. And then in 1861 that was divided to me. But not to have any income. Maybe the sixties and 1860s so let me tell you about the 17 nineties the battles the jeffersonians with those attitudes the french solution. We have gone through this before and this distinguished professor challenges you not more libertarian than it was 50 years ago when taxes are not much higher as they were 50 years ago. So that sounds like progress. How do we get here . I like to think we got here at the Cato Institute. America is a more Libertarian Society than it was 50 years ago and im old enough to remember. And that shows a great amount of libertarianism. I think its hard for people to identify as a way of analyzing things more of that political identity. So yes there is a strong libertarian streak in the United States with too much forward two steps back and it may not get the press that it deserves but a lot of the goat is quite good in that doesnt make news. And then leaving the Cato Institute and then never was again i believe it was little nanny on andy its only a day away is more like it is Getting Better all the time . A little bit of both. Max i am glad you are watching you had a distinguished career he worked for the Cato Institute and also for me and he is orient on orient and a serious Silicon Valley executive. And he is brilliant so we will not been one abandoned his description of his job. But yes it is always a day away and we need to stay cheerful like little orphan annie did. You said in your book the goal for was aware foreignpolicy success. Here we are 30 years later still at war in the goal spend these are two distinctly different types of for go in the case of kuwait, the first gulf war you have a huge dictatorship that just went in to step on a Research Fellow<\/a> pj work. I say im going up aj. I was in college the most popular magazine on campus was national and i remember quite a few any beds play cannot them because they all have ethnic stereotypes and gender relations over drug use is all now forbidden then moving on to Rolling Stone<\/a> Foreign Affairs<\/a> desk chief week because they paid him to do whatever he wanted to go right to the roots and televangelist retirement villages mystifying so moving out of the rocket stage he became a correspondent the simplest magazine writing about medicare Reform Campaign<\/a> finance reform and now moving into the age of retiring in College Tuition<\/a> now editing a magazine on finance and investment and ran an article by me its called american consequences so by my count the offer 20 books including holidays and how all the trouble in the world and eat the rich one of the funniest writers around and has more citations numerous quotations than any other living writer but what people often miss when they talk about humor is what an insightful analyst he is this is a very funny book but a very perceptive analysis of a modern democracy if you radiate the rich how countries get rich and why they dont then all your of economics at most colleges. Thats why i recommend those two books as a Christmas Gift<\/a> giving friends and family and Expensive College<\/a> course in science and economics and the existential despair tonight his latest book a crime is a pleasure to welcome the hl mencken Research Fellow<\/a> at the Cato Institute<\/a>, pj work. One work. Welcome back to the microphone and to get out of the way in the middle of the road we was yourselves i think everyone seems to be libertarian between the poles of the angry left and the angry you write and trying to be reasonable is the regular left for the social conservatives going straight down the middle and get the message out right now because the country seems to have lost that. Host in 1980 charlie with a libertarian president ial candidate and for a couple of days and then to say we never make it in what is extreme sending american boys to die in countries theyve never heard of taking half of the working mans wages, that is extremism there is such a thing as an extreme libertarian it is nonsense. What they really mean is the anarchist. Without her anarchy we like law and individual labor liberty, dignity and responsibility. So with anarchy i spent 20 years as a reporter i have been to mogadishu and over the summer and the United States<\/a> and over the summer and the United States<\/a> and how it looks in portland if anything extremely or extremely reasonable and we try to think things through and apply logic to the heat and the swamp and the words of politics is not a very logical thing and it probably needs logic applied. Host talk about a Libertarian Center<\/a> of lower taxes and freetrade and staying out of other peoples business an extreme agenda on left and right to libertarians those cohabit . A lot of people have a gut feeling called common sense and what we say makes common sense and our attitudes make common sense. But the position and i will research and analysis does not make is headlines. If it bleeds it leads with that 24 hour modern news cycle with his sleeves and it will lead just not sleazy and violent enough to attract the kind of attention that we need to attract to your paper way as you point out the extremism of their views what is fundamental to libertarianism willing to use logic and reason to change our minds. We are faced with a group of people at the moment who were not about to change their minds of those that have a mind to change. Host is a lot of talk about socialism i saw positive is a 30 percent of americans have a positive image of socialism are the only one third occur describe accurately what socialism was. Another humorist, family blessed one label its root years ago as a High School Student<\/a> she drew a very anticommunist because thats what they taught in high school and then in college became leftist and procommunist. But then she discovered beyond college that according to their ability and their needs is not a decision i care to lead to politicians i believe the ability to, humorously on the scene with one bear weight with comrades. Truer words were never spoken. I actually address that problem in my book which is i basically ask why are our kids communist in so leftwing . Have you really forgotten the real horrors of communism . I figured i did the math in the fall of the berlin wall is as long ago as the Great Depression<\/a> is for me and with the beginnings of free trade and free market principles that is as far back as the piece back of the 19 twenties. Who dont remember how truly bad socialism when all armed up when it comes and coke and marxist maximum from each according to his ability into his need that there is one little part of society from each according to his ability and his need the they are most familiar with the matters called a family kids are growing up there is mom and dad doing what they can to provide to kids with what they need so its very tempting to carry this from each according to his ability and his need the actual childish attitude into adulthoo adulthood. Hayek talked about that and a good moving place to place and to get the food and then to make the obstruction it works in a family, it doesnt work in a big society. You cant scale it up. It is a sweet feeling why people feel this way. And we as libertarians now like to anyone but you cant scale it up to the size of the nation. And the reason you cant do that is this thing called government which is necessary with a certain number of people concentrated in one place you need something called government. Government operates on the basis of course way of family to operate on close personal ties you can have close personal ties 320 million people. So we create this thing called government which is limited for the individual with a family with a small group of civil society. And those that which we cannot take care of is a family. But that government is in place if you get a traffic ticket and you dont pay it you can to find the new will go to jail and if you escape they will shoot you write down to the parking meter on the corner of your screen will be enforced by government by force. I did mention your books are better than a course in political economy they could just start with your chapter big fat politics with the new book. I think they could in the parking ticket is one example. Every time Us Government<\/a> to do something so one should always ask oneself what i should my mother maybe not go at gunpoint so what i told my mother at gunpoint . I think thats something that can be privately done without any danger to my mom. Bless her heart she is no longer with us. But then to say to be overrun by nazis . That would be an extremely bad thing. And you realize and hear about polarization and what happens to liberalism socialism and nationalism. When you have a nation that is so internally polarized that does not mean we are not under the exterior threat to bring us all together it is not not naturally and a homogenous country and with those ties of language and not united by a ties the ancient territory and with this frontier mentality and then in some ways it is artificial and then we try to tend to unite with over is bombed in 9 11 happens we come together. It is a luxury for us in the United States<\/a> is election to have a court rolls out in the open with screaming and yelling in the street and it shows us in the current epidemic will bring us all together and it is the domestic sickness is not the same as a foreign threat to cause a man on Community Around<\/a> americans. Host you finish the book and to make the best everything and then when you talk about the pandemic he wanted to be a great novel coming out of this called on the couch. The jack kerouac of today who can leave his mothers house. It is a strange phenomenon and the right thing after. With the pandemic with the george wade protest that has come from that may emerge from this what the government does and what it should be and on the other hand spending seven months locked in the house and all those getting angry and frustrated that could lead us to emerge from all of this angrier because that is how human nature works. And im betting on human nature then he showed learn to tie a necktie. Sorry. [laughter] where zuckerberg did have to go handinhand to congress. Thats only time i see meant so you the inaugural address. You for either candidate will give that address . No. That in which the concern is basically and isnt even mentioned and told page eight or nine that is even mentioned before the presidency in the constitution is the senate. Im commanderinchief by congress has the power to make war and peace. Not me. Why is my duty are the laws passed by congress are enforced not getting any particular mechanism than that more illustration to be president of the United States<\/a> so dont blame me for all that bad things in the United States<\/a>. And to make sure the workers are closed. And we will be hearing that from anybody soon. Host he worked book called the court of the presidency also the idea and that the president would carry them out and now we wait for the president to give us a budget. Congress should write the budget and then the president signs it unless it is unconstitutional in which case he should veto. Right. Simple enough. It is beautiful if you can read small type get on six index cards. And that is 400 pages long getting into how much protein and fat are allowable in pork sausage. That is why the eu has the problems it is. Host a question from kevin moore, talking about polarization from dispatches of a divided land, were parallel between now and the sixties and seventies which was to much worse and angry. . With that distance and time it is sufficient for comparison comparisons. But the fundamental differences here are very very different. The anger and the divisiveness and the violence of the 19 sixties had to do with some very fundamental issues. We were dragging people out of frozen schools and sending them off to a place they have never heard of to show people they have never met. And the vietnam war is an example of government getting completely out of hand. That was one element of the divisiveness of the sixties that is about Racial Discrimination<\/a> not until the Civil Rights Act<\/a> has been passed and begun to be enforced, tremendous legalized injustice in the United States<\/a> mostly at the state level of the south. People were angry and died to sacrifice their lives to fight this. People murdered to defend this terrible idea. That was a big question that resulted in a certain amount of violence that is not a surprising factor. And then a change of social mores between the older generation and the greatest that we dont have anything comparable to right now. With huge changes in attitudes with sexuality of all kind kinds, drug use but more fundamental things now about sex drugs and rock n roll and racial relations and fundamentally libertarian attitude of the Younger Generation<\/a> government toward the authoritarian attitude that had grown up early as a result of the depression and to among the older generation. So of greater import and those that are dividing us now. Host do you think the current plans of left and right populism will drive people were like him to a more classical Libertarian Center<\/a> . From your mouth to gods ear let us hope so. Societies do not sustain themselves will and with those that we are having right now. It is my greatest wish and hope and for the people will react to the left and the right with the idea not that they showed agree upon everything with oldfashioned conservative is important to go away and that is what people to argue in rational terms the heart of the liberals once everything to everybody and it can be quite sharp how in the heck and then to go back and have a sensible argument into the world. I hope so. The internet the government relies on force but there is a important difference between legitimate and illegitimate based on consent. In a democracy agree to be find running your they were the implications of this difference for libertarians . Right. The government to have a legal monopoly on deadly force we dont want everything settled by do is word gunfights at the okay corral. We have a construct with a legal monopoly on deadly force. But what can happen under those circumstances is given the authority in a sense to a thirdparty, it can get out of and. I have no sympathy with the vandalism and destruction going on but at the other hand the Cato Institute<\/a> has been professing for years of the militarization of race and turning them into an Occupying Force<\/a> in certain neighborhoods instead of this what they should be i dont have a lot of sympathy with the riots of was set them off. Host call asks if theres any possibility curbing the use of executive order for this and future president s . That would require a time machine. See you think the lesson of the vietnam war would be to return the warmaking powers to congress with those military intrusions on their own were sometimes i go to congress for some time so we do seem to learn that lesson from the vietnam war and im not too optimistic about is learn the lesson of executive orders not only by this president but the last president and the president that going to the time of lbj all the way down to andrew wilson. Woodrow wilson. And then to create the law of the land. In the power to declare war and all of his presidency has taken and one of the very best president s and starting the strand to a more powerful presidency and then as a practice and will send them into of the branches of government and one of them has been eating most of the other. And there is a tendency by the executive and legislative branc branch. So we have a tripod that the government stands on the phone or to the legs are getting shak shaky. Host deborah says she heard you speak at the university of wisconsin many years ago and she recalls you said you are not a libertarian. Have you changed . I am feeling i was asked if i was a member of the Libertarian Party<\/a>. To which my answer is and would be and still is no maybe a more conservative side of the branch a libertarian or terry and in some. You are speaking with irony. [laughter] but the question of the Libertarian Party<\/a> and with the ship is recognized as Political Parties<\/a> you cannot make out of one of the parties if you donate as much of a nickel to either side then you have to join that party will call to carry around there is no credo there are vague tendencies that have a lot to overlap and sometimes dont those that think government to think the government is the problem and then to those two ideas in your mind at the same time and then to for our government forms so they are not mutually exclusive im not a Libertarian Party<\/a> member because i dont consider america to be a Political Party<\/a> system and i have been involved for all these years that the Cato Institute<\/a> and our job is to analyze things and that analysis out there as forcefully as we can and makes a big difference the way legislators and bureaucrats and executives think about things. Not as often as i would like that sometimes it does. To me libertarianism is not a political position it is a form of analysis it is individual liberty and individual responsibility and way of working and that issue largely through that lens of individual liberty and dignity and responsibility. Host interesting questions about history. In past culture wars was the degree of intolerance with the opposing points of view we see today . Yes. You but they are lynchings about this. This is nothing new. And by historical standards is rather moderate. And the real culture war. And then in 1861 that was divided to me. But not to have any income. Maybe the sixties and 1860s so let me tell you about the 17 nineties the battles the jeffersonians with those attitudes the french solution. We have gone through this before and this distinguished professor challenges you not more libertarian than it was 50 years ago when taxes are not much higher as they were 50 years ago. So that sounds like progress. How do we get here . I like to think we got here at the Cato Institute<\/a>. America is a more Libertarian Society<\/a> than it was 50 years ago and im old enough to remember. And that shows a great amount of libertarianism. I think its hard for people to identify as a way of analyzing things more of that political identity. So yes there is a strong libertarian streak in the United States<\/a> with too much forward two steps back and it may not get the press that it deserves but a lot of the goat is quite good in that doesnt make news. And then leaving the Cato Institute<\/a> and then never was again i believe it was little nanny on andy its only a day away is more like it is Getting Better<\/a> all the time . A little bit of both. Max i am glad you are watching you had a distinguished career he worked for the Cato Institute<\/a> and also for me and he is orient on orient and a serious Silicon Valley<\/a> executive. And he is brilliant so we will not been one abandoned his description of his job. But yes it is always a day away and we need to stay cheerful like little orphan annie did. You said in your book the goal for was aware foreignpolicy success. Here we are 30 years later still at war in the goal spend these are two distinctly different types of for go in the case of kuwait, the first gulf war you have a huge dictatorship that just went in to step on a Little Country<\/a> maybe now make a shining example but nonetheless not doing any harm to the rest of the world and that just isnt a lesson we want the rest of the world to learn to do that kind of thing that goes denmark and belgium the very same sort of thing that set off over to a great deal of force and then there was a limited operation. I was there for the thing. With a little bit of authority and then in terms and the part that is closest to the golf they held hoping to get Saddam Hussein<\/a> and we did nothing to support them. So one might honestly say but when mission was accomplished, it was done and kuwait was restored to sovereignty and then they will put the place. And then there was a very different matter from the quagmires we havent older cells and sense. We do have to distinguish enough force should never be used in International Relations<\/a> when nothing else will do. Host an interesting question from chile he says it is common to hear is an argument this would never happen in the usa. Sometimes is a the rest of the world in the United States<\/a> but this would never happen in the usa with the disservice to discover theres plenty of bad government why do you think the image overseas is so much better than reality . It is comparative to a certain extent looking at ourselves and in the mirror we see all of our faults like a see my 72 yearold self. One of the reasons i shave anymore to keep looking in the mirror. Its easy not to see a fault for going around the world with the right comparative experience. I know chile and i cannot speak of that situation but in most of the world we experience has been corruption is far more evident and pervasive and all levels of government not that we dont have the problems. And the rake the ethnic and racial hatred and rightly so is is worse in many parts of the world. Ia covered the bosnian war. Nobody on the face of the earth served in bosnia. When i witnessed my first battle to say they were shooting the unpronounceables. But the hatred was there. Lake hotel. And rule of law and protection and for the expression even in places like england or developed areas of europe. And Economic Opportunities<\/a> to think about immigration this place from the economic point of view. So actually speaking we are doing really well for things to be proud about the post and courier going back to complaining about our own country were critical of congress. Do you think term limits would move congress into thinking more about the Public Interest<\/a> or less about their own quick. Thats interesting thats an argument i have many years with the Cato Institute<\/a> ask president. Went back and forth he was always very much in favor of term limits my said the likelihood especially with seats in the house that it is still being to be forever able to see is congressperson this book want to assert Interest Group<\/a> who change every two years and down south that inner cities seat it would be changing and to wonder dog that will dig up the yard . And then one day over cocktails and said to me one last attempt i bring with you about term limits everyone in washington as opposed. And i said you just one your argument. Host that is a good point to follow the special interest and politicians are against it, there must be something they think it would do to their powe power. Is the was in the middle of the new great awakening with work culture on woke culture quick. That is the idea to be actually aware of and justice and not to be put to sleep or eat or drink because there is so much injustice out there now it is in wine grape egg existential injustice bob you have to spend your time being aware of it and that seems to consist of talking other peoples in your off and bothering other people who are not to be sufficiently aware or not aware at all. It doesnt seem like fun that will last very long. It is extremely boring and more and up in its performance. And with those great awakenings in the United States<\/a> which are mostly religious but not always there is populist great awakening in the past history is they have their 15 minutes. Host here is a question relating to professionally also the state of the country. In your book you imply that all the people who read books are rich or baby boomers. Are you worried about a decline in literacy or seriousness in the United States<\/a> . Absolutely. Reading is hard even if the one unsubstantial is what i write you still have to translate those from the page and create mental images just watching junk on the computer or television is a much easier experience and i am worried where you seeing the discipline required even for late reading and that means our things will be sensationalist and short with a very brief Attention Span<\/a> even if you are reading junk or mysteries or geopolitical colors but those badly rich and one requires the concentration span is very useful with every other endeavor in life i tell my kids get off the screen and open the book. Any book i dont care what you are reading. Just read because you may not gain information from the book but the Attention Span<\/a> you find worthwhile everywhere else in life. Host do you think your teenagers seven more words than you ever did because of texting . Yes they are short and misspelled. [laughter] but they knew what they mean meant. [laughter] i suppose you are right writing has not gone out of style because texting came and one is a last time so when will you a letter sealed in the envelope . That is pretty rare. It has been a while. Host i dont think economist can answer this. We will ask you. They know what they are talking about and i dont. Host has a pandemic wiped out the economic goal or will it come back . What we know historically of disease epidemics is economically we tend to recover pretty quickly which is one of the reasons this came along may have forgotten about the spanish will epidemic even though it took an enormous number of lives with a great amount of suffering because we tend to recover rather quickly. This may be more difficult because of the disease itself and the suffering and not remembering the dead people and in this case in the middle of an epidemic while trying to limit and prevent that from reaching the force and doing the most amount of damage of a period of the past would have done much more damage than this one. And mechanisms of pension themselves are very disruptive and we are paying a price for this. With very bad leadership in washington and a confusing science and changing sciences hard to tell when and if we are doing the right thing. May be a slower come back but the black plague unless you die from it actually a plan and to the server system creating a labor shortage in europe that resulted in the rise of the middle class and a Small Partnership<\/a> the completely oppressed and the net benefits economically speaking with the positive economics is one of those things we count the factories but not the dead. Host were about out of time. Your new book is a cry from the middle. Is there a take away you want people to get after reading the book . Go back to just being mad at each other. Anybody who is in a marriage or partnership longterm knows if you maintain a close relationship without having arguments theres always a stage where instead of arguing to buy a new car you leave web path details on the bed and the socks are all of the poor. And we have reached that point that America Needs<\/a> marriage counseling to keep on the subject let us argue by all means as much as we want and as hard as we want. But can find the argument to the subject at hand. Quit hating on each other quit hating on each other. 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