Host lived i was before we start on his new fascinating book of yours, the trump century, you worked on and on cnn 30 years with a variety of shows, not an orthodox republican obviously not a liberal democrat. So what is the formula that allowed you to exist for three decades did you have a particular relationship with ted turner . Enlighten us. It was helpful i joined cnn 1980 at the beginning i was one of the founders of cnn one of the fortunate ones they are president to creation it was a spectacular place to work because it was a thought of before ted turner the global cable news cast and putting that into action but it was truly remarkable. And the change over time as these do and we founded in 1980 and by 1984 he was on the forbes wealthiest list and basically was on the verge of bankruptcy just four years earlier when he founded it. So his position changed so did hours we are in the white house pull and growing and over tim time, his commitment, teds commitment to a more liberal approach to the news became far more serious and emphatic and by 1999 it was clear it would be a tough balancing act but at that point i was in so much and advocacy journalist by 2009 when we had the file the final falling out not with ted for time warner, it was simply a matter of ideology. As many critical things being said about george w. Bush, perhaps more than i ever did about barack obama. The truth is they were committed to a different approach and they decided it would be ideological and room only one and if you instead of the tent with many voices i was the only conservative on the air. Obviously that did not work out and if anything even more to the left rather than independent journalism or to moderation as you know. In this three decade evolution of cnn you odd and more specific interest in the economy and politics and economics so you have a certain worldview that is not easy categorized. Did you ever think there would ever be a thirdparty candidate for the presidency to dovetail with this formula and ideology over 30 years to gravitate . Obviously i didnt think we would see that in my lifetime. I was hoping that we would and donald trump ive known him for as long as i have known ted turner but we were not friends it was a professional relationship. I watched as this man stepped out 2016 running for president i have to tell you i rejoiced because independentminded and secular even an agnostic about his politics as he has acknowledged and for me that was exciting them that he was aligned with the Republican Party or the democratic and ideology and philosophy. But he was aligned with patriots and this country. I blanch every time i hear white nationalism. Is nationalism not white every color and creed. American nationalist means you embrace the constitution which is our great assurance of equality and equal opportunity and respect for all citizens. And he embodies that. He truly does i was very excited to see him run and it brought me back to the Republican Party i was a dependent and a fierce independent in those respects. You have these issues and to roaming the ability to get tough with the china and favor free trade you did not buy into the idea the industrial midwest was played out to be innovated and you are skeptical as i read the book of these optional military engagement specifically in the cost benefit analysis it is in play out for us in the region at large there were other thirdparty candidates who picked up on some of this what is it about trump was is the broader fabric or his personality . Why did he succeed when other thirdparty people had failure at the National Level . Those thirdparty candidates because unreservedly the independent thinker in their respective of his political preference for republican. The difference for donald trump he was be pulled in to none of the establishment. And with those influences in our society where we are contended with now but fundamentally this was a clash than the establishment that controls both political parties, or did until the arrival of donald trump he broke through and said i will take on the orthodoxy i will be the descriptor he will represent the forgotten man and woman in this country and pledged to do that and within days was doing that. He is one of those surprises and delights that we rarely have in politics he is a man who said what he went and kept his promises. That drives the left, the establishment mad. He is taking on the multitrillion dollar Business Roundtable 135 ceos that control a huge part of gdp taking on the chamber of commerce on that ridiculous mantra that free trade is the boon to the american economy. And then to refinance the rest of the world certainly and then to share in that over 20 years before trump had stagnant weight on stagnant wages and less opportunity because it was a financial benefit for the elites but not the middle class which is the foundation of the countr country. Host and in your book we have jobs jobs jobs and in the trump century and its true with record unemployment for minorities he got down at three. Five almost at the percent almost annual gdp but the point im making is there was a twopronged assault on the left and the right and in the prophetic message. Why do you think if he would take inner city youth their labor was bid on employers . Why do you think that empathetic message her attitude was never picked up a resonated . So why do you not think of that donald trump is the most empathetic and concerned president about the lower and middle class . Because he doesnt speak in the same language of the elitist. They have a lexicon all to themselves and is problematic. They are talking about the dependency of the innercity that are low income and that is the basis it is a condescension of government with the idea without dependency is the government now we have a huge bureaucracy that requires dependency on a good number of our people. May have gotten used to it since 1965 with the war on poverty begins spending 22 trillion we have everything but the metrics bureau to success nobody wants to follow up on black youth in the innercity and what happens to them when they go to the Public Schools run by unions rather than their communities. Its a strange world we have created and one that both parties have been perfectly content until now to continue the status quo and patootie. Host with the trump jobs program and implement we have not seen in 50 years is china prepared to trump everybody felt along the bipartisan the more concessions we gave the more they word me pay and to become wealthy and democratizes and we will manage decline then you come along and say stop that in a general idea to suggest that china was that strong and determined to rule the world but it had intrinsic weaknesses that wait and see you want to see but i never got from your book that it was a steamroller that was inevitable contradictions that you are trying to warn people about. We have known for a quarter century it had Front Companies in this nation operating for only one purpose to steeler technology and military secrets and especially our technological advances and they would save themselves a lot of money on education with research and development and thats what they have done. We built china in some respects literally important 600 billion per year from us in intellectual property stealing it running deficits with this country from the beginning of the relationship we have been in deficit to them in trade and shared our technology as well as permanently permitting their death and those that relationship between the wealthy power and the emerging one. At no time was it required of us to be the global chomp that we did under clinton and bush and obama and with the trifecta of worst president s to string together and then National Security it is devastating to what we have squandered and we did so with the knowledge of just to one Joseph Stiglitz the prizewinning economist and warned test with the wars of the middle east would amount to he just given did not give us a significant warning he said it would be 3 trillion and ended up paying 6 trillion and counting in addition to the lives we lost we have gone through. Of madness that is remarkable and it took donald trump to step forward the trump derangement syndrome he is the only one that wasnt arranged in the entire city of washington. Its really quite something. And then we see that with a 5 billiondollar make a. But it changes the ideology that is more critical of the misdemeanors in the United States and ignore the felonies of human rights racism hong kong and china the same recently with hollywood and that it was a reaction to directors who were under order or perceived orders that china wanted lighter skinned actors. So in your book how with this insidious presence with media and politics they seem so much more adept. Guest i and further affirm your question and that you are suggesting we cannot change because we are so inextricably intertwined with china insidiously as you suggest to the mesh itself in our economy, society and even culture and as you say hollywood right now is editing their films and shooting their movies in many cases with a cant to beijing because they want the International Market to be excited its no longer a us audience are us product we went along. It was always an american product with an international audience. Now the product coming out of hollywood is an international and chinese product in the United States market tags along behind it. It is a major change in our society and culture and business. Miscues the inordinate influence of the values and many times in many cases the traditional American Values in the world knows mac it and accepting it. Host you talk about the china ally and we can talk about the virus that originated in wuhan china dollars. Those that did not emerge when it emerged in the first accidentally other wet market now we know that narrative has been discredited. And however that narrative goes well was the attitude when we have direct flights in the old days you cannot go from wuhan or anywhere else but then forget about the origins of it was accidental or intentional, but what was the mindset in the industry the western economy that we never that would be possible. Guest as you say this virus was unique we cant say scientifically with empirical evidence or judgment what it wa was. Is a natural . Manmade . That we do know for fact whether accidental or engineered the communist Chinese Government know where once it was transmissible and then a very early on it was deadly. They had those terms from their own people of course and very importantly had the truth from the rest of the world. The who and cdc and the institutions and colleagues and doctors in china but that we also took a part of the research will also help them to design the version of the cdc and a certain cockiness and in overconfidence the american doctors would be forthcoming as a professional and medical relationship with individuals that they thought with any communist institution with beijing or on. Then said that to me above from january on they were very very certain that they would know best about what would be going on in on wuhan even as it was unleashed for the Chinese Communist party on the unsuspecting world and did not acknowledge it. I declared on my show that it was a viral epidemic and then saying they had way to the who moved to that the cdl would not because the who had not the madness of this moment again like so much of this is any and we have so much to catch up with. Host you suggest we are in the Election Year 2020 and engaged in a veritable trade war with china and with the force multipliers and that divisiveness back home inadvertently by design and is acrimony hysteria all played in a certain way we in the western world could not focus in a unified manner what we were doing or saying and what the who was but it was considered told right in this trade will we spend so much time eloquently defining and then you say there was a virus in the middle of it historically it is very odd. Guest it is very odd because the counter events that are not necessarily in conflict as far as the chinese are concerned you can all see the depth of chinese intelligence on all of this. It is not a reach at all to consider the possibility to be this engineered and purposeful in the chinese interest. Because they have managed inadvertently or otherwise to take down the economy of europ europe, the United States, all chief competitors in the global marketplace. They have killed hundreds of thousands of people across the world and infected others the longterm effects we dont know. But we do know the chinese have been in that beneficiary and they are the only ones responsible for this infection and pandemic that has claimed so many lives and second so many millions and trillions of dollars in lost gdp for the world not just the United States. Im very suspicious and the convenience of just to benefited because we also know the chinese consciously shut down travel outside of wuhan but effectively encouraged International Travel to europe and the United States and guess what by march the virus was coming back into this country from europe as well as china and asia. One is not suspicious one is not paying attention and personally i dont get lost if they engineered the virus the reality is they made the unconscionable decision not to warn the world of what they did have a deadly virus they had released upon it that is a moral responsibility. In one thing that characterizes the chapters on domestic policy and the trump achievement policy on dash it is a theme you keep going back to globalism versus nationalism and with those questions on Foreign Policy and look at the world and you see the United States withdraw from the Paris Climate Accord with the iran deal or day job over nato gets people angry to up their contributions now suddenly we move the embassy unilaterally to jerusalem and Golan Heights is not going back to syria and now we see a new nexus between the goal states and israel. What is your assessment not just on the ideology but efficacy . What did he do when he decided to pursue no better friend no worse enemy of god rather than this with the brotherhood of man . They saw the absurdities of the decisions being taken. But as the hard and reasoning and that is what is transpiring internationally. The first act by the way by this congress after the founding was the tariff act. And he exploded the idea a tariff would destroy the economy. Is interesting to think of the things we dont hear spoken about it anymore as a result of this president you dont hear people saying that nonsense anymore you dont hear the expression free trade because now the country knows the chamber of commerce and wall street were lying through their teeth when they said it was hardly a zerosum game, childre game, children. This makes us rich and wealthy and powerful will we up a huge external trade to australians of dollars of Economic Growth as a result of those deficits particularly with china. Y successful with the media will not credit him. Whether its nato or the middle east this is a man who gets nominated for two Nobel Peace Prize is, to separate advancements in the interest of police and he cant get the media to acknowledge what has having been made. Hes fighting against more evil seditious forces against him, whether its the media, the body politic for his own party, for crying out loud and he has to fight them through every day and when. Host this reflects the subtitle of the book how the president changed the course of history forever. If i follow you you say as much as he was opposed, he hit on a reality of truth that is going to convince even his enemies and so after trump, whether its a republican or democrat, dont pressure nato, let them pay what they want or lets get back into the climate accord or the iran deal weve got to get it right back or lets watch out for those gold states and nexus within israel. It convinces his enemies almost as if he says who the emperor has no clothes and now the dialect has been changed. Guest without question. What he i hes demonstrated is e assumptions of the liberal Foreign Policy establishment because in some cases he did the opposite of what they would recommend or insist upon. How dare you suggest the United States wont pay the bill, but we have great jobs and benefits that result from our deficit spending to support our wealthy european friends were in the case of the middle east all of the palestinian dreams and desires and wishes for begin to deal with organizing and aligning the interest of the states in the region. He did the ladder and the result is bahrain the United Arab Emirates and as we know from his statements, five others are waiting to join in a new relationship with israel working together to ensure peace in the region and yes, confounding iran which has been not only the largest state sponsor of terrorism, but its responsible for killing a third of our troops in iraq and never being held to account. Host you are saying if joe biden were to be president and trump were all wrong we would have to put them back in the center of all of the discussions. We have to reopen the deal and it would be very skeptical. That would have no residents now because they would change the entire conversation by the success was such a degree that it would be hard to put Humpty Dumpty back together again. Guest i believe that. Like so many variables in this Political Year one of them is the leftwing media. They are not performing as watchdogs. They are working and his political actioispolitical actih the Democratic Party, and simultaneously, the corporations that own them, at t, cnn, comcast, nbc. With all of the cute little mickey mouse pictures it puts a nasty reporter into the White House Briefing room every day who doesnt look nearly as cute and they have an agenda. When they told him about fake news, hes not talking about in my opinion adequately a s