Hello, everybody. Im allison kiddie, artistic director of the chicago humanities festival and delighted to be here welcoming you to todays program, Maria Hinojosa, once i was you. This program and many more are free and open to the public. You can learn more at chicago humanities. Org, and i encourage you to lend your support, make a donation or become a member. You can also learn more about our commitment to accessibility there thanks to support from chf audiences. All of our Digital Events have closed captioning which can be controlled through youtube. Thank you to our captioner today. And, good news, this program will have both spanish and english subtitles. In my previous life in public radio, the voice of Maria Hinojosa was a constant presence, compassionate, Ground Breaking. Im delighted shes back at chf and in conversation with another essential voice, Jose Antonio Vargas. They are two of the most compelling and urgent thinkers on civil rights in america seen especially through the lens of their deep personal and as awardwinning journalists, intellectual connections to immigration. So please join me in giving a warm welcome to Jose Antonio Vargas and Maria Hinojosa. I hi, im the author of [inaudible] i am thrilled to have this conversation with one of my favorite human beings and one of my favorite journalists, Maria Hinojosa. Were going to talk about her book, and this book, once i was you, is wonderful for many reasons. But one of them is that the book, like all great memoirs, captures you with, maria, as a come plex, multilayered human being. The immigrant maria, the journalist maria, the activist maria, the Ground Breaking entrepreneur maria, the daughter maria, the mother and wife maria. All those identifiers make you, make maria a whole person, and she is. Ing and i have known maria for a while now. The first time i meter her was in 2008 at a Journalism Convention in chicago, but reading this book i felt like i was getting to know you so much more intimately. And in the chapter called embracing a new identity, leaving chicago to go to new york city for college. Maria writes i had looked up the definition of the word radical. It meant going to the root of things, and thats how i saw mousse. This book with, to me i saw myself. This book gets at the roots. Like maria, it is radical. So now i really want to bring in Maria Hinojosa. Oh [laughter] measure im sorry, the last time we did this was the opposite, right . I know. I made you cry, but you just made me cry. You know, to pull that out, jose, that very specific detail of me actually looking up, wait a second, what does the word radical really mean . And for me, it changed everything. Yes, im a radical, but thats because im going to the root or i want to go to the root. But honestly, though, after reading the book i felt like it was an emotional root a canal. [laughter] i felt like you did get to the roots of this, right . [laughter] and in as many ways as this conversation can go just given how we are with each other, ive clipped one of my accomplished one of my goals, which was to make her cry. [laughter] weve been friends for a while now, and we communicate with each other. When i finished my documentary, you were the first person i called. I want to talk about the process of this book. How was this book birthed . When did you realize that, okay, i have to do that . When did that happen . You may even remember, jose, because it just kind of happened. I was on prime time on msnbc with joy, a friend of ours. And at that time i actually was doing a lot more prime time msnbc, which was fun. Not so much this time around, which is a separate conversation. But anyway, i had a moment, and steve cortez, who is a trump supporter, used the term illegal to refer to human beings, immigrants. And i thought, i said, look, theres no such thing as an illegal human being. Illegal is not a noun. And i just kind of did what you and i do can all the time. It was i was just speaking my truth. Well, that went viral, and univision, you know, ended up making a little video of that. That went viral. 10 Million People saw it. And a very close friend of mine said thats the book that you have to write, illegal is not a noun. And i was like, yes, i do. And so, jose, actually, this book was going to be a little pocketbook. You know those little books that you have. Yeah, yeah. Its like a 10point gude why illegal is not a noun. Short, simple people at the airport will pick it up, oh, okay, why i should never use the term illegal to refer to a human being. Well, people were really interested in that book. When i actually went ahead and decided to get an agent and decided to dip back into the world of plushing because its very publishing because its very scary, its a lot of work, youve got to have a very thick skin yep. And you have to have people around you who really love you and believe in you. So there really wasnt that much love for that idea of, like, a small book. And so thats how this ended up coming, you know . And there were many iterationings. I thought it was going to be a book, a love letter to my daughter who deserves a book because my son got so ultimately, what ended up happening once thed editor, michelle, whos a phenomenal editor from Simon Schuster, once she got involved in the book and we talked about this not just being my story which, sure, its interesting, its fine, but it was much more about all of those different parts of my life that you mentioned so beautifully and also talking about history and policy and politics and what it looked like. I was just thinking, jose, actually that one of the communities i hope reads this book is the vietnamese community. Yes. Because i, for me the seat ma that please experience vietnamese experience marks me as a human being, as a child. And i end up kind of resolving that by then becoming a journalist and giving at least in one case a vietnamese woman who had ended up in Corpus Christi voice. Because so many vietnamese were just it was the first televiewed refugee crisis. And as you televised. And as you know, they were reduced to terminology, horrific terminology that journalists used to refer to people as boat people. So even in the reconstructing of that, its a way in which we can find each other in this book, hopefully. Well, actually, what i was going to say is i love how much history youve interwoven throughout the book, right . And kind of a lot of, like, zooming in ing zooming out and then zooming back in and how its so crocheted in your life, you know . Part of what i was speaking about is when you arrived here in 1961, when your father arrived here in 1961, right . It was four years before the immigration nationality act which to you outline in the booker right . And i actually want to talk about that. Tud you feel that part of your goal here as a journalist, as a mexicanamerican journalist is to provide a history . Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. But doing it, i felt like at one point like this was a love letter to my country, it was like a reckoning with this country, the United States, where i was kind of saying but how could you do this and how could you do this . And the sad truth, jose, that we realize that White Supremacy has been in this country from the moment that the pilgrims arrived, right . And so we have to as a country understand what that means. You know, one of the other things that happens is that finding connections with other community, one of the more Beautiful Moments in the writing of this book was when in the writing of the history part. You know, the first people who were excluded by law from the United States, excluded, were augusts asian women. Chinese women. Before the chinese exclusion act was law, they were saying the women cant come. And i began to think those women were my mom. And so now i feel, you know, when i see asian women, im like im tied to you, youre tied to me, and we dont even know these stories because so much of history doesnt talk about this per se. Honestly, for me, that was so jarring. Let me just read something from the book. I had to read it, and then i actually had to stop and realize what i had just read. This is from the book. Maria writes but kept coming on until 1964 when the apparent lie bar violations labor violations became untenable. Under the program 4. 6 million labor contracts were signed. Person they helped to keep the u. S. Economy afloat [inaudible] productivity during those years. Yet there is almost no record or acknowledgment of their contribution today. After i heard that, i was like, wait. What . Yeah. And thats what i talk about. Part of the work of this book, i think, is to correct that narrative. You know, to constantly just be saying, like, wait a second. And there were things that i found out in the writing of this book where i, too, was just like, you know, over and over again, oh mid god, oh, my god, how did this happen . Its actually an important part of history, because i think if both democrats and republicans had their drutherses, theyd be way a happier to just have a [inaudible] theyd be way happy to just bring it back. Oh, yeah. Just bring the laborers over, treat them however you want. As long as theyve got a little green card that means theyre not going to be forcibly deported or put into i. C. E. Detention facilities, just bring them all in. After theyre done, send them back. What benefits . What retirement . Oh, what health care . No, theyre just worker. There are so many of them. And thats, thats whats so painful about our experience as a immigrants in this country, is that sure there are some people who come to this country who have no interest in staying here. Okay, fine. But then there are many of us who do and want to stay and not only want to stay, but actually feel an ownership of this place. And the fact that we would be reduced to youre just labor is really well, an invisible, right . Well, that was one of the themes. And this is the other thing that i thought was so not only compelling, but i kept being haunted by the fact that the language around this, the fact that mexicans were only seen as, quoteunquote, workers, right . No wonder you cant look at them as people. All you think about is their labor, right . And as part of that history too as i was reading it, you reminded me the republicans role in kind of the modern immigration conversation and how, you know, president bush, the first president bush, was really more immigrantfriendly than what we remember. How was that when you were researching that part of the book . That, i have to say, that part of the work has been revealing to me but also just basically the long story, to make it short, is that both republicans and democrats have thrown, actively thrown immigrants under the bus. So people will read this book and theyll just be like, wait, george h. W. Bush was actually good on refugees . He was the only one in the recent 50 years who increased noticeably the number of refugees allowed. He was the one who signed temporary protected status for so many. Is so this is george h. W. Bush. And the Republican Party talked about immigrants in this kind of glowing way whereas the clinton was making auntimmigrant ads antiimmigrant ads and was busy actually beginning the building of the wall. So i think this is important because we cannot have the illusion, right, of, again, who controls the narrative. Who controls the narrative and then whats actually been happening, whats actually been the policies. The thing about reagan, who was the predecessor to george h. W. Bush, is that ronald reagan, as you know, created the Immigration Reform and control act which actually legalized, allowed about 3 million undocumented immigrants to actually become citizens. That was amazing. Problem was that he was actively and this is a big part of the book too actively bombing central america, sending military, sending soldiers down there, you know, participating in genocidal activities, you know, soldiers that were trained by american military. So it hasnt been good. But that was a part of the book that i really appreciated. Again, how you not only are living history, witnessing history, but youre reporting on history, right . And for me, by the way, who were talking to here the premier latina journalist in the United States of america. [laughter] right . So i keep reminding myself that. This is, like, diane sawyer, barbara walters. Right . As i was reading that i, i kept thinking to myself the whole chapter on obama, on kind of the obama part of this [inaudible] given that Rahm Emmanuel used to be the mayor of chicago, given that rahm i man well was the first chief of staff to president obama, that was one of the parts of the book that i was really savoring, i have to say. As a journalist and as an undocumented person who has yet to really see and read kind of the full reckoning that, for me, for the first time ive seen in writing in the book. Yeah. Can you talk about what that was like to, that event that you were emceeing in washington, d. C. With, you know, honoring sonia sotomayor, the First Latina Supreme Court justice and introducing president obama and knowing that, feeling in your stomach, wait a second, how is this really going to turn out . You totally described that as just such a good journalist. Yeah, you went right into the scene. Because the scene is, you know, after george w. Bush where i didnt have much access, you know, in the white house, you know, suddenly obamas elected, the Congressional Hispanic Caucus is holding this big event, this big gala. Theres a vip tent, and now im in the vip tent, and im like, whoa, how did this happen . And im with sonia sotomayor. Theres kind of this beautiful moment, wow, things are really going to change. And youre right, i was on stage getting ready to introduce barack obama, who i had not met. And i was very excited, of course. And when he comes out on stage after i introduced him, he actually takes me and he whispers in my ear, he says i miss hearing your show. And i said you can listen to it anytime, but its nice that were both hyde parkers, because were both from chicago. He said, yes, we are, its so good to see you, off he went, and when i came back on stage to kind of wrap up is when i said, wait a second, this is a moment in history, what just happened here. And as journalists, we have to hold politicians accountable. I dont care if im at a gala and im all dressed up and i just introduced him and he gave me an amazing, big hug, it was beautiful. I have to hold him accountable. Is so i said remember, president barack obama, theres no such thing as an illegal human being. We do not refer to these terms, we are human beings. And it was kind of a political moment. And not everybody started because it was a moment of, hmm . It was a party. Yes. It was a huge party, and im just like and, by the way, can we talk about this . Because i think youre right, jose, i think part of what were getting at is that as journalists, and in many ways this is a journalists book in a lot of ways, were not, were not going to drink the koolaid anywhere. What i will never forget, and this is something that ive never really shared publicly are before, but when i was asked by the white house to fill in [inaudible] frontline documentary that maria hosted and produced, please check it out if you havent seen it, i was asked to moderate a conversation on youtube about immigration right after daca was announced. And that was the other thing, by the way, in this book is maria tells the story of really how daca happen, right . It wasnt obama that made daca happen, but its the work of activists, like many of whom are my friends who pushed for that. And maria calls me out of the blue i dont even know how you heard about this event, but of course you heard about it you said, ho sax say, you jose, you better not get used by this white house. Do you remember that . Oh, my god. You better not be used by this white house. And i just remember thinking to myself, this is great. Theres maria my friend, but then theres maria, you know, the journalist who ive always put on a pedestal in my head going, okay, jose, you better not be used this way. Youre right. In many ways the book is a memoir. I kept thinking about ben bradlees memoir, right . It covers so much ground in that way. I have to say though, i mean, i have to ask you this question. President obama is in the process of writing his memoirs now. How do you think president obama is going to justify and talk about the deportation of 4 Million People, human beings under his watch given that he would not have won president and gotten reelected without the latinx vote . How do you think hes going to talk about this . You know, heres the thing is that president barack obama barack, i mean, i was at parties where barack was at because i was at barnard, he was at columbia university. His kids went to the school where i went to for high school. I know the neighborhood, the local spots. That 31 flavors where he bought Michelle Obama their first date, i was going to that 31 flavors when i was 5 years old. So i feel a connection to barack obama so deeply, and to michelle as well. And yet there is this wound between us because i, like you and a few other journalists, have wanted to hold him accountable because he is a constitutional scholar. And so i is have to understand. And this is the question for him, is how is it that he puts together being a constitutional scholar but knowing that every single hour, every sing thing minute single minute people were being denied due process simply because they werent born in this country. And thats you, jose, and thats me, right . Yeah. Thats what it came down to. So i know this is painful. And, you know, im back in therapy. I just put it out on my twitter. Im like, okay, im back in painful. Right . You know, its painful to look at all these things that happened and so i would just make an offer to barack, president barack obama to say im here for that conversation. Because and i yeah. Because weve gone beyond the point where its like thats not what this is about. This is about our hearts and how we, hes my same age. I mean, were so equal in so many withdraws. We have to be able to so many ways. We have to be able to look at each other in the eyes because i know he cares about me. I know he cares about you