Thank you for joining us. Thank you for having me. So lets start with the idea of your book 1 billion americans try to get more people in here . 670 Million People. And then sometimes have a Bad Reputation and how clean it was good. And then to be provocative and i thought to thought experiment like chinas competition we just cannot grow as fast. But we can have more people we spend money to keep them out and we dont have as many children as they say we want to have. We occurred provide childcare so why not . When i do it . Limited to say thats too many people like is hong kong to be crammed in like sardines. Is that true . With one americans the population would be about half. Yeah america is empty with a lot of amber waves of grain. [laughter] is just really big and stuff is historically odd 330 million in canada they are 25 million we make policy choices mature. Our career to get a lot of people to. It is very deliberate you look at the George Washington administration, there is a lot of racism in that time crossover interested in him to welcome immigrants to build the country into a major power with the speeches he just wrote a letter which was nice but it was totally open borders they had to put more money into opening officers in europe. They have the homestead act and civil war that we should get some more people. Part of the thinking of the book is we should go back to that type of thinking that is embedded in moments of our history. Its not a huge departure just a little more than 100 years ago. We have a much more rapidly growing population in the fifties and sixties with the baby boom era have a more than three children. Of go back to that with preferences shifting the people say that would like to have two or three kids on average instead of having one or two. But in the aggregate from my five family that means a much slower population growth. And in that modest shift. That makes a huge difference over time that we have the space bar two triple the population you cant say you want to english food that there is no space in kind of preaching to the choir. And mike iam into that i call for open borders and the places that we live in want to be welcoming theres a lot of immigrants there and with those critical questions so why should we do it . And then try to maintain our meeting pressure the world stage in america a report that says how chinese movie sensors used to say you cant put that in the movie if you want to show it in china. You can put in the movie at all. Because now they have the number one box office of the world so it gives them incredible leverage. You cannot walk away from the china market. So the general manager of the rockets to express solidarity with the protesters in hong kong he got a smack down. And the dalai lama and there is a lot of cynicism there in marketing but there was a huge uproar and the ceo day where issues a groveling apology. So is that primarily is that a bigger market so they would not have to kowtow to china. You get more leverage and do things on the policy front understand what is going on right now with tiktok but the bigger the more the regulatory in the world. And those decisions so you will not be allowed to release a movie in america submit. You have to pick in that situation where they will want to pick. With the Obama Administration may tighter regulations he says you can flush the toilets anymore. I thank you can when people argue about it and biological cannot just walk away and then as new zealand and with a large market and you can see that in but i think there are benefits to both domestically. So you have big cities and deep complicated markets for services and skills and between customers and employees and workers where individual media for a long time and because america is big if you can reach 1 percent of the American Population with a podcast that is crazy success. Then you can get somewhere but i know danish language podcasting is not that vibrant. And then just to have more cities are growth and then technology. And exactly to five areas and detroit is famous in st. Louis have lost over 60 percent of its population and a lot of smaller places like cleveland and cincinnati and in philadelphia and baltimore all the way down and then you can look at anyone place and say the mayor screwed up. Almost every city in the midwest and west of the smaller cities and they are still shrinking because this will be hard in the bay area but so these can get to cheap so affordable is good but when you get to a situation like milwaukee with the building market price is below what it cost to build a new building that means nobody wants to build things and landlords dont keep up their property theres no work to do but if you own your home but that sweat equity is a waste instead of an opportunity for people to build wealth and value its not literally true the rising tide lifts all boats but if it arises a lot it is easier to make sure all the boats. So what we have now people go to the big cities simply open up the builders then how do we make sure he wanted to go to places were not going now so how do you change that quick. So one idea to try to decentralize the economy somewhat and some people think with covid that will happen naturally which in some ways is great i know the people abandoning downtown but either way thats one thing that may happen the Economic Opportunity may naturally span out but if it doesnt we could try to spread it out. Amazon if you do h2 q, dont go to new york. Shift this activity to places that needed Government Agencies going out of the dc area those that have infrastructure. Also directly target immigrants so in canada quebec he gets to sponsor immigrants on its own to find people that speak french will want a special perfume for french speaking immigrants so right now we have these programs where people come working for a particular company that we have to stay in a particular city and follow the rules and then convert to a regular green card with any put down some roots and you know people. A lot of time immigrants will move to other people from the same culture have moved in the past. So i think we should experiment with that and Pete Buttigieg talked about it a lot and somewhere in the biden plan but it seems like a good idea. To me, it seems one of the main problems it is more cultural and innovation is that issue that seems to me a winning issue for the right how do you change that and how do you even get here what a lot of americans dont want more immigration . It is a tough one it is somewhat flexible public passes the senate and with a phrase like barack obama but instead they chose to go down a different route to that donald trump took and that also works. He works for them politically. Those reasons people on the left like a National Pastime and who cares . But one reason its hard to solve problems unless you have some level of by and across the aisle and for that kind of reason that you can think about the cold war era if every decision had been made in like we would not come through that wall and needed people on both sides to say to broadly shared prosperity and to show communist the system is better labor unions and equitable distribution of income like the Civil Rights Movement in part because of intrinsic justice and the courage on the front lines in part and then in the highs of the world. And then talk about freedom and then to live up to american ideals and if conservatives dont want to be more serious than donald trump about the nation you can see where were going with that going on a trajectory of decline and chaos and division and helping with tax cuts what does he was in a good for winning elections they might want to consider something different. So you say conservatives and conservative elites recognize the geopolitical benefits and try to change those cultural attitudes the seems very longterm. [laughter] yes think more constructively in one thing that happens is conservatives say we shouldnt have all of these visa let them in on merit that is reasonable a lot of countries have the system but in the ball that tom khan did and to cut the ilLegal Immigration path but trump is just at the townhall yesterday and said i love legal immigrants i just dont want whatever so i think that message resonates that people should follow the law and you have to go through legal channels. A lot of people in the blue states think there are scapegoating of undocumented people but thats the political message that works cutting Legal Immigration is a Stephen Miller passion project and has been his whole life but they dont need to do that they could embrace a more immigration policy to say lets have more people with amazing skills. So with medical doctors we worry all the time about healthcare. So much we pay the most doctors but dont have actually that many per capita. And then to pass some type of test and say now im a doctor but we told that professionals qualify to come here and knock yourself out that would address an important problem facing people. One of the things that makes me skeptical is that the trump era is a big part of the Republican Base i dont know if you can change that a lot of americans dont want people who are different from them. That is absolutely true. But there is a duality we say we want to make America Great again. I was interviewing a member of congress from el paso the other day and he says make america why to get i think that is part of it but part of it is a really do want to make a great again so i want to show in the book there is this incredible tension and then nostalgia politics with this exclusion of america and does the project the greatness. Quantitatively. And with those big moments a challenge and to make those more inclusive. Because that has been the obvious. It holds us back. And with military service. And discrimination and the people who do it and the practitioners of racism feel i am getting benefits from this like supremacy is good for me or to pay psychic wages. It has tangible material harm but that is how you create a stronger country and then just to and political fights. And to change hearts and minds and fundamentally its not true of the demographic change making the country weaker. And this Little America thinking accelerates at decline. Dont agree with the administrations approach to underscore that. And not just then a sky. And with the Current Population and with per capita gdp. But i think that military strength ultimately is a shortterm thing. Those strengthens domestic is not just about how many people you have the quality and the strength of your institution and things like that. So when i was a kid i used to ask my one grandpa stories about world war ii he flew line and airplanes for the navy as a Radio Operator in the pilot. I thought the stories were great. With her grandfather worked and to help ration went with rationing of that that was the most lame thing in the universe and then to contribute to that were we needed boots for our soldiers also english boots and boots we were making all the boots. That is how america became a great power and with that economic dynamism and that is a lagging indicator because and then its hard to build aircraft carriers but they are catching up in that regard and sweden is nice and whole lot of leftwing people who have sweden is just a Little Country they will never amount to anything in the world. Being that small. A lot of people on the left would say so what . We had the geopolitical power may be hegemon in the world and be a happy Little Country. And the question is will sweden overtake a sword and mark . Okay we made our share of mistakes that somebody else take the wheel but if you look at the real alternative its not good to thank you can say that with eyes wide open and the history of the United States of what is happening that is horrifying in a much more profound way than things the United States has ten in the recent past and i got into it. I used to be much of the school of thought that bill clinton gave the speech in 1999 china want to do it will be a part of that with the use of the internet so it will need to democratization that i am not a Technology Person but i Like Technology and that is not possible to buy on about this firewall. And really that is wrong because you have cell phones so now everyone is monitor they have an authoritarian system that is more powerful and entrenched and more progressive and ultimately i dont think it is correct to think america is so rotten it just shrinks away from that makes the world better for that. We need to be a big powerful country because if they are in charge . So japan and korea and taiwan the ability they depend on alliances with United States and as a major factor on the world stage. That many people around the world would like to serve and be friends in the wall a diplomatic term but thats good its a good thing we have going for us but it also means we gain benefits by having a strategy for national leadership. And it seemed like the country are crazy people but the alternative to the nationalism like we are down on ourselves maybe the world would be better off and this is another blow to confidence. Why not 6 billion . If that is the right target today is a matter of political reality . Specs billion, trying to pick a number that i thought was ambitious enough to be interesting but also realistic when you think about it. A lot of americans have been to france it is beautiful. Paris. It also means elevating our population growth rate to what it was. To sustain that 2100 then you get a 1 billion. So thats where it is. Is want to immigrate. Maybe one day everyone will wake up. A children i have just want i can imagine eight. My wife has a cousin i think has nine kids. This happens. The world can get weird. As this appeal with those attitudes for america around the world a lot of people who want to come here. Its not 100 percent clear and think about open borders im slightly against open borders but it is worth saying their Gallup Survey 135 Million People around the world say they would like to leave their home country in america is where they want to go so now there are more people their first choice the word settle for america i dont think we know the people that would like to immigrate is exactly but its fewer than what most people might think there is that paranoia that we would be flooded with immigrants which is probably not true people like to move here but it is a finite number. So how does that play out politically and then to raise democracy but with the ability to win votes from people of color is a little unwarranted and that becomes a cycle like those people will never vote for me will then they wont. But if you look at the current polling, the trump is doing better than he was in 2016. Hes not doing very well but is doing better someone whos made a really strong effort to be inclusive and his for a problem and then to get it you can make it work for them that makes me sad because Mitch Mcconnell said the other day republicans will never be in the senate they have a nonvoting member of congress right now who is a republican so just do the work. But diversity can reduce social justice . And its like changes in the homeownership rate will just the spectrum of things so its like the chicken and the egg this is at one point in time but in the diverse neighborhood is that you something we should accept as a part of human nature . My kid goes to a diverse kindergarten we are doing with food virtual kindergarten right now which is tough so we wanted to put something together in my house we wanted ventilation so my son and seven classmates are in the and its true if we let the chips fall with no forethought we may have ended up with a homogenous subset for we are committed to being members to make sure we have a Diverse Group of the homeschool pod wake we do and that builds trust ultimately will need to accept the statistical finding that they cant cooperate across racial lines. One of the counterarguments that i always think of and we did have the places during that time is the deathknell of these things have been flow to the extent particularly from the National Point of view and the presence of 11 Million People have been here for a long time integrated to have legal status and are now subject to waves of enforcement intensity and now the pressure is on to me roads a National Community and have the Legal Properties for people who are here to regularize their status and to pay back taxes or whatever and in the future to have a process they could go through to qualify and come through legally that to me will build a Stronger Community that the existing process treating desire to migrate as legitimate and it creates a lot of problems so is there a legitimate asylum application its a good way to get a job with a higher standard of living. Thats the worst reason in the world. [laughter] so on my moms side i am jewish would have to prove they were afraid of persecution and the fact that they could get higher jobs is just a coincidence so why did you come here they could just pick one reason its common sense. I was grew up in apartheid in south africa it was much better to come to america they just thought it could be better and funny and adventurous like political persecution to be granted asylum. It is just weird because it is a thing they are lying they are breaking the rules were honest think it will be better all Things Considered if that doesnt qualify you then. And Climate Change impact we are asking for . Here is a big question a lot of people have. If you think about it holistically on a few different dimensions you can alleviate and look at the cost of Climate Change it i