Policy i will be monitoring our conversation today by collier and the cofounder vote with the Election Reform Program at the center for justice. So feel free to drop your questions and the chat below. And miller voters than ever were voting early and as we talk about alternatives a lot of people are asking about Going Digital asig well. So i would you even want online voting . Here in Seattle Washington we have a robust mail and Ballot System what that conversation would look like. The appeal is enormous and in theory it has largely been attempted in the country for people is a of the in the polls so convincingly that if we somehow have a robust online Voting System that would drastically increase voter participationld but this country doesnt have really great numbers that would actually show up on election day in the paper so engage. And those in a given election its. And you also need to keep in mind there is a nontrivial amount then effectively use the postal ballot or mail and Ballot System as well because they have constrains. So we do need to keep that in mind its also there is an element if there is a Natural Disaster women to have backup plans and with those Digital Solutions and then to provide access to be enfranchised. Elections are about access with as much choice as we can in a responsible and measured by thats why we do need to keep exploring this. And to push back ahi little bi bit. And looking at voter access issues and then to increase options for voters. So if you can find a way to allow for internet voting that would be great to offer that option. And then with those options with them more early voting with that extreme increase turnout and thats why we dont have the turnout in the us that we like to see so that is the key reason that ever so voters in particular and that is easier to vote. For the time being but i will get into the discussion with much universal opening by Security Experts that we need to be looking for alternatives right now voters with disabilities and abroads but before we get into that so what about online voting . But currently has mentioned to have this option available and with that deployed military personnel and in a small number of jurisdictions for those who have a disabilitys and for across the country and more than 30 states to allow some form of electronic ballot return and some of those use fax or email or then to be secured so that is also something that needs to be kept in mind. So what does it look like from your perspective . I would be happy to take that. And with the traditional approach is from the website and with the smart phone application. And the initial process is the same as any absentee and there is the federal form so we can do either and with that information and then there is an option on the form which method you want to choose and so depending on the channel if it is mobile then you download the app and then use your mobile number and email that matches what you provided a venue issue with the government a photo id or your passport and then you take a live video selfie so they know it is real. And then tries to match you with the picture of your id and then if it matches the barcode as well and then to be stored on the phone in a secure location and with those credentials and so all the documents you provided and at that point you are ready to receive your ballot and with that access of interface you need to put the phone you can do that and then once you are ready you input your choices many states what have you signed an affidavit. And then that is comparable the election club. And with that credential and then it is projected and then to have anr identifier. And on that audit and then on election day it is actually generating a paper ballot and that is where it is tabulated in the system. And then it has the postelection audit so on the paper ballot and the block chain and then everything that goes through without any tampering. Thats one of the ways that looks right now. So to get back to the verification process so back experience so those for voters. Up talk to a number of people who have cast ballots and pretty much to the t they all had some difficulty to overall enjoy the experience voting is an is easy. I dont know if you want to get into the issue as well but there is a interested is a much tougher nut to crack. I have a couplein of things. If you look at the polling if they would like to vote on their phones they would say yes but if you mentioned russia or security attacks are nationstate the numbers plummet. So most people thinking about voting are necessarily thinking about security but that is a grave concern and with voters it is a concern to them as well so the fact we have moved from the internet away from the paperless Voting Systems and with National Security and with that public desire before the vote was cast even in the past few years of 2016 those that were voting on the system of voter verified paper record on that word be 4 percent because of those security concerns that have been raised. We have also seen a lot of surveys and a lot of that feedback with the majority opinion of favor with the risks they get skeptical so that is an early indicator with a measure of trust of Something Digital commissioner be overlooked. Lets back up a little bit the state interference with elections the Security Risk . I think the online Voting System the Central Place where those ballots are cast but the worstcase scenario with the voting machine on election day means that those of us if we talk about a more centralized hub a for longterm care and who was cast on that on election day orders of magnitude more. And furthermore with a paper record a truly separate independent recount that my not be found for months or years which couple weeks maybe to certify the Election Results but certainly everybody has to be settled before november and january thats a greater nightmare scenario than anything i can think of a traditional paper. That is a good example i would agree with that that is a big concern. And how secure those devices are. And thenea potentially to have their vote impacted. And that i know going into 2020 and one of the things that makes me feel better in all the battlegroundal states 96 percent of the country theres some kind of problem or some kind of doubt that we go back to the paper record of the voter that they have filled out r t and confirmed thats how she intended to vote and with those hurdles than the actual Security Risk and as we know all too well and that her democracy works. So the whole idea of having a Central Store from the more rewarding system with technology and generally every jurisdiction so even if you were using that so there is no single place so that is one andd the second that there is the paper ballot in general and then that would be actually and it is consequential so thats not actually true then you literally get that assurance and that should not be overlooked because technology has a way to be more impressed than the system i agree there are a lot of conflicting thoughts and narratives out there that is why its very important so it is the slow and gradual to make sure everything good and expand access. There has been a couple of studies the mit one found that they did deal with a control and those results if i understand that correctly and those results if i understand that correctly and the researchersre disagree for that point. That is a misunderstanding of the architecture and you could correlate that as well as a citizen what is happening and if a malicious actor if we saw that and the dropbox of california. Thats not true. But the reality is with the Voting System as well so there is a perception that is created we should not ignore those went to go into effect and at every step to minimize the risk that it becomes usable thats what we need to focus on with the inperson boarding system as well. I just wanted to mention it this instant it is a empty dropbox they now have video cameras so they keep track of the ballots and those that have been lost with that circumstanc circumstance. And with that type of attack you still have a lot of questions about how you might recover from those attacks and with the security measures and to build the and resiliency that there are problems to recover and one of my concerns i have a concern generally with the oversight of the election system but we dont have anysa National Standards for internet voting we have private vendors with those methods of voting there are no standards so at the end of the day what youre left with rely on those representations what they are telling you is true other standards they have satisfied most people think they are ready for internet voting or not that really either need to have standards before we have any significant number of people before we have any significant number of people it is pretty low i cant imagine every official wooden independently verify what do those regulations look like to see what is adopte adopted. There are some standards put out by the foundation in connection and working with Security Experts and frankly that if were going to do this in the United States it should be to the standards of technology the standards for Voting Machines but at the end of the day it seems there are three things the standards need to satisfy one is the privacy of the voter and the steps that could be taken to voter had wethe ensure privacy is protected. This is a big security challenge. We need to make sure what other people are posing. So we can have a system and most important to have the integrity and when it arrives and that it actually representsts the vote that the voter intended to cast and then to do that without anybody else that so they intended. And to add to that definitely the problem or the standard i have been advocating for for a while like all the agencies to work on that so at the same time the process of panicking internet standards process past to deliver thosee standards so that needs to be accelerated and if you look for example to look at the identity which is one of the challenges outlined that was mentioned from a few years ago that has been addressed based on the standards so that has been successful and other industries so that is happening bit by bit with the formal standardization process and that word benefit the spacehe that would help controlling the chaos. And is as a they do with what you are going to jump in with. And that trajectory of online voting has if you count fax military members see. Is not common but then to send that as an email attachment. And then that trajectory there was that surge of West Virginia to offer the counties in the primaries and those out dewest which then prompted a couple months ago several federal agencies to issue a warning about online voting because they talked about the feds involved because they feared Widespread Adoption quickly and whether online votingom can happen or a decade before we can do so safely but the consensus is they were afraid of a warning against Widespread Adoption. So with the original question . So what does that look like i feel like on security and trust and out of i trust any online voting platform and those to test for vulnerabilities and then recommend and to improve that. And so to be at the forefront the first Elections Company to roll out the program and the intention there was to have some form of formalized process with other entities who are curious to do the research to have the method to do that. With the notion of the live infrastructure and that Test Infrastructure that mears a live infrastructure and then to be part of the community because on the live system if anything happens essentially thats what happened in the incident you are alluding to where its not possible for the system of that bad intention to do something malicious and thats reported to the customer so that is something that is a source of contention but we feel there is a lot of information out there and the platforms available and ample opportunity for organizations to do Constructive Research and in a constructive manner. To have this investigation as i have reported the university of michigan and as they was researching. And then the program at the time but only after the investigation started and with those live election system. And the cast system information and then with that election the system to the customer as you would expect and beyond that is not on our control so someone doesnt want to follow the guidelines been is something you can control and to make sure the system remains safe so if you want to have that election system. Its not its controversial that is best understandable. You want to add that is not accurate. It is literally. It is one year after. I have a problem using a system during a live election and using that as an excuse more opennessng so my thoughts would be maybe we should be using the system like in washington dc after they found out there were problems with that. But unfortunately we have it backwards talk about using the system. This is not the first time there are close to 50 elections they never any intention of anybody to go through the election thats a whole motion. Of those calibrated and then the process of learning and then in each of those in that process needs to continue because not everything can be tested in the lab and we keep doing this process. I think there has been and just generally so with this process with the average consumer reads the news and with that Security Issues overall public trust in the systems that we could be doing overtime. So we shouldnt be using them this time. So there is the universal agreement among the Security Experts whether or the fbi the warning that was put out with the National Academy of sciences and others to say we are not ready toth do this im always concerned about voter confidence and scaring voters unnecessarily but my own view is were not ready to be using these systems we are not ready to repair confidence so what we should be doing is set up a National Standard first and then that is a great idea but not for use in actual elections with the actual role of citizens at risk. So those to be piloted with that existing option with overseas and email or fax those are not exactly topoftheline systems out there and incrementally and significantly safer them at that is one reason and the other as we discussed earlier and i think that is unfair those of the difference of ideals and if that is adequate and then the question of near universal agreement that it should never be used and not safe enough i think thats not true. There are other people who are security practitioners who are working in different aspects of industries and the technology to make the safe is here. In different aspects so i dont think we should just view that it would never be possible and with that narrative and to put this on kevin and those in the manner so it does not mean it would be compromised and those folks in the media to say look at that aspect and as they are reported and to a constructive role to educate the people for what is important here but at the same time present the facts to the other people. So to have talks with those experts about this and that is a reporters job. I think a lot of reporting can overemphasize danger at the expense of realistic use of the system the National Academy of science and the consensus there are too many potential vulnerabilities and that is absolutely near unanimous i cannot in good faith with these equally valid ideas. Its that simple. I did not mean to imply that but so to see those challenges all voters with disabilities or overseas or those that are not as secure as they like. And thoseec that Security Experts there are people unfortunately in the United States that you shouldnt have a market that are not approved by the fda with no regulation no testing and thats what were seeing that there are no standards. And there is no independent authority to ensure that they are secure. We have vendors who say that secure and thats not enough for that election. When you brought up the aspect of medicine and the whole idea of Clinical Trials in what is essentially happening in these that have been carefully selected them and to have that option so we need to see that and the idea of standards but we should not forget there is the delay or the creation of standards for the peoplee who criticize at the end of the day and those who are benefiting this and the elections in this country and to produce by the private sector. And then to change that technology and then it needs to be more collaboration on that front and then pointing out those reports and then not even considered in that area that has actually been used by other industries. But that is not the extent and to be comprehensive. But those technology paradigms. But that has only been around for a few years. To take into account the standards to be successfully used of other industries that have proven think youre comparing apples to apples. But thats not the only one. I dont know what you are fe but that they are actually using the system to attempt to break into the system and has been blocked and it has been audited. I do want to leave some time here for questions. And then to be accessible so what could be done to make online voting accessible and those that are unfamiliar with that technology. Thats a good question one of the jurisdictions we work with that is curbside voting so they have learned so whatever the disability you can request accommodation then in the privacy of your home to your ballot similarly and then to bring the ipad with the whole idea of using technology for curbside voting by that juri