How identity and politics and surviving the land of the free is so important this webber hustings conversation and during this hour will have a lively discussion that includes to the most articulate analysts of American Culture today. Author of this book is Mike Gonzalez and host into the most popular podcast in america. Following the conversation between mike and michael. We will do q a session which i will moderate. Stony point during the program, if you think of something that you would like to ask either of both of them, send the question in the questions box. Be sure to tell us your name and where you are tuning in from. We will answer as any questions as we can in the time the week up. Before we get to the discussion between mike and michael, i want to introduce a special guest to kick off the program. The special guest is Heritage Foundation president missus k james. Missus james, the floor is yours. Good morning. I am so excited to welcome you to the Heritage Foundation and to our virtual book launch of the plot to change america. I want to thank you all but especially i want to thank michael for joining us today. We are so honored to have you with us. We are so proud of Mike Gonzalez in the time in the research he is put into this tremendous book. Mike is not afraid to point out what is happening to our beloved country. It is not afraid to call out those who buy into the destructiveness of identity politics. Mike is often at the tip of the spear and heritage it comes to these issues. Any dozen because he is a true patriot. Because he does not want to see our beloved country go any further down this treacherous road. Ladies and gentlemen, is only an the 1960s when we were struggling to desegregate this country. It encourages bison lacks were working to bring races together and to ensure that america lives up to its promise on liberty and justice and equal treatment for all people. Kay coles james today most americans live in racial harmony. We had our first black president , who had and people of all colors and backgrounds and the highest ranks of american business. And the government. And yes, and yet, our young people are coming out of our colleges and universities believing agreements politics, identity politics, is the road to justice and equality. When in fact, it will bring us right into a place where this nation is looking at a time in our history when we have never been more disrupted. This book cannot be any more timely with the riots and the discretions statues and monuments the rewriting of American History in the classroom. The American People needed to wake up to the insidious this identity politics. They need to understand what has already cost us as a society. And they need to understand how it will poison our children and our grandchildren free to stand by and allow it to continue. We cannot let that happen. We lost let that happen. And so mike thank you for writing this important book. I think you mike for being here, and michael for being here to be with us to talk about it. We are all looking forward to the conversation. Thank you very much missus james the latest an honor to be here at the Heritage Foundation albeit virtually graded not in the building. This is a pleasure to be joined by mike and tollison to talk about this book. A plot to change america. Mike, i dont want to accuse you of anything. But when i look around today, and i see anarchists tearing down statutes of the Founding Fathers of this country, all using the rhetoric of identity politics. Some of whom are selfproclaimed marxists. I cannot help but to wonder if you hired this group of people as a Marketing Tool to promote the thesis in the book because it seems as though we are seeing that thesis played out horrifyingly in real time all around us. Mike michael, thank you very much for that introduction. I think it is very much for being here. He is in very happy my book is sitting well. But not very happy at all the reasons why. I did not hire these people. Everything that you are saying today, you just put your finger on it. Everything from the anarchy in portland to the projects, to the blm organizations, to dangelos, the socalled anti racism Training Sessions. All of this is at the heart of viral my book. Little did i know is i was writing in a year ago, that we were going to have the summer of 2020, when im beginning to call the summer case, is really a consequence of the things we have done to ourselves. Michaelmichael you trace this o the summer of love, the 60s. A lot of people were skeptical of the designation of the time but now i think it is apt for immersing the fruit of those ideologies. Its led to the summer of eight. There is one moment early on in the book that was a little surprising to me. But i think youre absolutely right which is that when people think of identity politics, and all of the affiliated Political Correctness, intersection analogy, use whatever term you like. When we think of it, a lot of people consider that to be just as sort of an eccentricity, a side issue in american politics. We really need to get down to talking about or foreign policy. And the identity politics is on the side but would you say is much more specific and probably more damning. You say that identity politics has become our national hardware. What do you mean by that. Mike it is really the software of our culture. It is everywhere around us. We have become divided, among groups based on race, ethnicity, sexual orientation. Gender payment disability status. And anything that goes to a degree of and then be used to claim respect or reward or justice. It is from the moment you went to school when your daughter principal is saying, this is our friend. Into high school when her kids are made to read some books, which does a wonderful job, not a telling history. His very bad history. But in silly grievances rate. Installation of grievances. Need to work that way. And obviously, that the University Campuses have been taken over by this. But has migrated over to the workforce. Hr is telling people to put a sign on the desk that say im an ally. Are we in the time of war. So it is really, it is really come to believe that the jugular issue of our times. Michael but not every group claims the status. Because of even though as you can see i have relatively light skin. It seems that i would not qualify. Any of the people in this country do not qualify. So what is it print how does one get to claim this privilege of being considered depressed. Mike yes, we decided in the 60s to siphon off a group of people and call them minorities. We had not done this before. We had never done this before. We couldve done this in the 20s. When we had a huge number of arminians and syrians or companies or sicilians. In your case or people from eastern europe. People who were typical and can be identified us something different. We couldve siphon them off as minorities we chose not to parties just say, now, lets have all of these immigrants coming in, joined the melting pot and become americans through simulation. In the 1940s, you have scientists who believe to associate essential victimhood. Discrimination the term of monarchy. Then as we know it today, it comes into the first defined in 1961 in the definition that we know of today. Has an association with victimhood. So we divide and all of these people into minority groups rated and they have a sense of grievances, the victimhood. And then they use this to say, while the country is systemically racist. It is institutionally racist. So we must change all of the institutions and all of the structures in the system itself. Michael you mentioned the social scientists. The institutions. I think in the popular imagination, identity politics is something that was developed from the grassroots. People spontaneously taken to the streets and coming towards a kind of consciousness as a group of people and demanding the rights in the face of oppression. That is the official leftwing narrative by the people pushing identity politics. And you say the origins are elisabeth different. You say the origins were much more specific and involve a small group of people and it was highly intentional rated so much as it and who is behind it. Mike it is not in all grassroots efforts. In fact it was driven by elite activists. Groups of people who then formed bureaucracy to create these groups and then and still moved it and promoted it and universities in the 1960s. Before the Foundation Give a great deal of my 600,000 or so to ucla researchers to go into the southwest. They came back with powerful moves for the activists, the mexicanamericans do not feel they were minorities. Or victim group. They did know they were facing discrimination which they did. But they thought they could solve their own problems and an individual level. They could use their own individual agency to overcome the problems. This was very bad news for the ucla researchers. Then it went on to take on a process to create identities. It was already giving money in the late 60s to these identities into groups rated the night create the mexicanamerican trust fund and the foundation begins to really support of this group creation. Behind all of this is the thinking of postmodernists that wanted to rephrase a narrative in the post modernist to use the words from putting this down in the 20s. [inaudible]. , it has obviously not a perfect country by any means. But it could be improved by using our ideals. It is these theories that you see themselves play over again and again and again. And among these people who created these ethnic groups and dependent groups and who created this. Michael you mentioned as someone who was founder of the attend italian communist party, philosopher. He called himself a mark himself. So the very beginning having some of these ideas would you mentioned filter up to the school and out into critical theory in the modern university. Today you have people claiming identity politics who are openly describing themselves as trained marxist specifically the leaders on the blm organizations. As is Common Thread here. It seems to me hollow marks. Seems to be people who are communist yet when you raise that spectrum in the United States, the state thats a crazy Conspiracy Theory. Youre seeing communist. That is this red scare. Is that correct Conspiracy Theory or is it conspiracy read. Mike you mentioned the one who first comes up with the idea. The fascist was sent to prison to stop his brain working. Very bad idea from the example of the apostle st. Paul. A lot of people do a lot of good thinking in prison. So he began to think and they 20s and 30s why havent the revolutions happened. Only they have succeeded is known only one place. About quarter of europe. In russia in 1719. But they failed in 1948. There is no soviet, and the german revolution failed. And he felt in italy. And he begins to say the reason is that the worker has become his own oppressor. And accepted all of the cultural givens of the socalled oppressor class. And religion in the economic system. And so, he has his theory that we need to destroy this in modern america. This is what we are saying today. As you said, we are saying the creator of the 1619 project says this is about replacing the narrative of america. The refinement becomes with the school that is the second president s, pricetobook in 1937. Which pronounces in first comes up with the critical theory. Its an attack and all of the northwest. And they run very good book on the frankfurt school, notes that the almost ignored soviet union and there were no tax on sale and even at the height of the famine. In all of the massacres. Its putting it back on the western norms of the american norms are you and what you have today on campus. Critical theory, and has infiltrated every faculty. If you are in law school, you have to study critical legal theory. And critical race theory. On the ethnic studies departments, to started in the 60s by actually was in the 70s by these activists. About replacing the narrative. Angela davis, the former black panther, member of the party of the usa, started by brandeis in the 60s, another one of these gurus. And she said that ethnic studies of intellectual arm of the revolution. She knows what shes saying it and she saying openly. So i think that we could take it seriously when we see today what is happening, having echoing and repeating the same phrases that is neo marxist, these cultural markets is in the 20s and 30s and 40s and 50s and the 60s. Michael you can trace as you just did this evolution, this intellectual evolution that then overflows into this crazy politics that were sitting around us. One particular interesting point in the book is you did not dedicate a chapter to black identity because of the unique role of black People History of the United States. Obviously legal slavery and jim crow and everything that accompanies those institutions. And what you point out is that identity politics attempts to inflate the experience of other minority groups as they continue to be created by date with black experience in america. So this does not matter of chronology even had of these minority groups develop. Perhaps we can begin with hispanic or latino or think the new term that the identity politics once st uses latin x. I dont know how to pronounce that so i will try but i know, that your last name is gonzales. So what is the hispanic identity and assuming that the people did not buy into it when it came out. Why has it stuck. Mike it is this unique black experience, i think with these issues. They did it on purpose. This National Organization for women, in terms of jane probe the time. To make a Clear Association with jim crow. In the marshall said i think in the decision, think he said look our experiences unique. It brought change to america. And not quite have a chapter on African Americans because they are is a unique experience in adult think its helping to fill the hearts and minds of the africanamericans with hatred but i do think the slavery happened. Jane probe happened in segregation happen to forget it if i so hard because to go back to the era of separate but equal. And we are slowly, nothing is slowly but very rapidly going back to ferguson. With these politics in the hispanic models is a very clear one with the first tried to organize in the late 40s with the election of the Los Angeles City council. Organizing mexican americans. And fred ross who work for them did not think or organized enough into opposing box. And then, this Movement Comes in and has this belief that mexicans should be considered a race. And obviously it is a nationality. There are any mexicans who are european origin. And who are indigenous origin rated mixes thereof. And even mexican african mexicans. They do have the association of mexicans and rice. Then they begin to realize that we want to expand this coasttocoast and bring in humans and immigrations from florida. And that is when they start to come up with the idea of the hispanic. In the activists really begin to almost intimidate but work the bureaucracy into creating and finally it came to foul in 1977, the Office Management and budget comes out with policy directive number 15. And has a hispanic identity. And in three years later, it gets introduced introduced into 1980, first census of this hispanic identity and is also Asian Americans which is another huge group brings together americans of any different origins. People from india or pakistan or china or the philippines. So americans have very different groups and cultural indicators brought in under this umbrella of race in america. Is the same thing as hispanic americans. The thing is that any people listen to this will be surprised year that hispanics were concocted by the bureaucracy and will think that its been around forever. In fact, a professor at the university of california, they write about this the same it would be corrective amnesia. People will forget this is no. They will begin to accept this identity as having existed always. This is what they also wanted to do with northeast africa. And create another group. Mike will the development of nina which i am pleased to say i think we have collected amnesia about it because that was a new Identity Group that the left tried to hoist on us in the obama administration. It just never took off. So i guess when one for the good guys. And not one more Grievance Group that is been concocted because as you point out in the book, the vast majority of our history, the arabs were considered white. You name a number of very wellknown arabs including former governor of indiana, or other people, steve jobs. No one would say was particular oppressed and the basis of his race. That raises this question of White Privilege which we hear about today, the bestselling books are written on the subject rated you can take a job or go to a School Without attending a Training Session where you are talking about the White Privilege and it raises a question. If one receives a special privilege by virtue of being white, then why are activists clambering to remove the designation is white and create a new identity politics group. There seems to be a problem here. Mike yes, that is right. That is why to this idea of White Privilege. You can be, theres about actually they came out for five years ago in which he describes the upbringing. It was scotch irish. We got to yell, he did not know that he was unaware, what was expected of him culturally. I would be tinsel to use or anything like that. This is i think, but the activists who met the Census Bureau including linda, a radical palestinian activist, the very idea that the Census Bureau brought to the office in 2015 to advise on the creation of nina. Tells you eve