Can you describe the scene . Susie sherbet personal thank you for having me. There is no sense of this one you have to remember is trump did not come as a bolt out of the blue. Even taking for years is running for president. He was not quite sure how it he did not have an identity sometimes he was a democrat sometimes he was a republican sometimes he is an independent. By 2012 he was getting serious about it. And david is a conservative activist, hardline conservative activists was a friend of donald trump and he decided to talk to him about running for president. They took his friend steve bannon who did not know donald trump at that point to new york to eat meeting at trump tower to talk about the possibility of donald trump running as an outsider how would he do it . David bossi sits down with steve bannon and donald trump that heres the way you run it the traditional reagan republican. Which is the way almost all republicans ran at that point. Steve bannon speaks up and says something different. He said that is not going to work anymore. If you are going to run each run for the populace and he talked to pat buchanan and ross perot. As a new populace mood in the country. And donald trump looks at steve bannon and see bannon tells a story and says your right i may popular wrist. Any kind gets the terminology mangled. But see bannon concludes later he is right. If he is going to run as a popular is, take populism make it popular in all about him. And then he decides not to run in 2012. Before his later thats exactly what he does. In the meantime between 2012 and 2016 he hones that message. There are a lot of starting points for the trump revolution if you will. That is at least one of the more intriguing ones. I know. It really is at the very beginning trump is been all about. Very much so. I interviewed Newt Gingrich for the book a couple of times. Newt gingrich is fascinating. And a lot of insights into this. Read the book tells of a fortyyear period of the conservative revolution from Ronald Reagan freely in 1979 when he starts to run for president to Donald Trumps arrival and where we are today. And Newt Gingrich has that whol whole. In one of the things he said to me though is donald trump is not a conservative. He is an anti liberal. He thanks a lot of liberal thinking is not sense. But he doesnt have a philosophy. Does not have the National Review which is kind of the bible of modernday conservatives in. He is an instinct player and it is about him. That is all fine with his supporters that some that we learned in 2016 page not have to be a traditional conservative or ideology. What you are against at this point in our political history is as important as what you are for. Host one thing that makes us so different from so many other political books is that there is an autobiographical thread that goes through. His first person plural. How did you come up with this title . And what we were attempting to do with that . That is interesting. It was not my plan. You are a journalist i am a journalist. To think about something in the first person is exceptionally uncomfortable. Its not what i intended to do. But when i got into this project it was an attempt to explain, as the title suggests worded donald trump come from. I got very interested in the starting points. The starting point really was 1979 when the carter presidency collapses. Carter gives them a speech kind of throws up his hands and said we are in terrible trouble here. The country is then turning too Ronald Reagan who wins the presidency in 1980. That began a four decade. Of influence in the countrys political spirit think the conservative movement was through that. Perhaps the most powerful of the time. I decided that was the story is going to tell with the story of how the conservative movement drove john rose to prominence and power under Ronald Reagan. Somehow evolved to picking donald trump to be the standardbearer by 2016. When i talked with my editor at random House Speaker about it he said that is the arc of your career isnt . And its trooper it i arrived in washington to cover washing for the wall street journal in 1980. In the spring of 1980. And then i and kind of following the story ever since. He said the editor of random House Speaker that you should put yourself in a books. You witnessed a lot of this that youre going to write about. You should tell us what it is like to be there. That is how that came about. It was not my idea. Once i accepted the idea to insert myself occasionally in the story i saw this convention this is what i felt like. I interviewed bill clinton at that point and this is what it sounded like. I hope its not too intrusive, hope it humanizes a story a little bit. Is not a natural or comfortable place for journalists to land. Sue and thoughts talk about 1980. Ronald reagan represented a number of things. He didnt represent very traditional conservative principles. Freetrade, smaller governments, stronger military. He was in some ways an internationalist. But he also comes along with this sort of opportunistic upbeat view of the world. And something that the country, after jimmy carter in there. That you write about, it is a shot of selfconfidence. The country really needs at that moment. And people forget, i certainly remember it was one of the formative memories of my political consciousness in some ways. By 1979 they said the presidency is too big of a job for any one person to handle. Maybe we need to split into and have a domestic policy in a Foreign Policy president. That is how the Carter White House was at that point. You are right, ronald ragan walked the door and said explicitly this is nonsense. We can do this is pull yourselves together here and move forward. That was the attitude. The philosophy was with conservative 1976 just four years earlier Ronald Reagan trying to get the nomination away from gerald ford and the Republican Party. In the party decided in the country decided hes too conservative thats too far out there. But by 1980 Ronald Reagan had not moved. But the country was ready for it. It has as much of carters failures ragan success but there you have it. What really happened in 1980 that i did not appreciate intelligent the book was it Ronald Reagan took a basic core message that he had developed for years. And expanded it and flushed it out. So how did that happen . First of all is economic velocity k more clear because he took supplied economics from jack kemp and said i am not for balancing the budget im for a big tax cut that will spur the economy. He had a conservative message its only had a little oracle to it. And united with united conservatives. That had not happened. That was a revolutionary idea that people in the evangelical movement get out of the churches into the political movement. That is not happened before certainly not on this scale. Ronald reagan went to them and they came to Ronald Reagan and linked arms. Their economic conservatives and social religious conservatives. And then he made common cause with the neoconservatives the hawkish democrats in Foreign Policy who are very antisoviet, very much cold warriors. And he brought them into the coalition. And that is where the anti communism that help this group together for so many years kind of provided the glue that kept it altogether. And what Ronald Reagan did in 1980 he put those three elements together and created a coalitio coalition. Mr. Not a conservative message is a wreck and brought to the table in 1980. Also is not entirely clear at the beginning that is going to succeed. He gets through massive tax cut with his economic program. But the next thing that happens is he gets hit by big recession. And he pulls back some of this economic policies unit implemented. What did that due to the movement . Thats a good point and often forgotten that we cut taxes and are thinking back to life. That was not true at all for there is a giant taxcut first first year in office. Psalms exactly what he asked for prayers considered dangerous and revolutionary and it did not work right away. The deficit exploded, republicans were crazy nervous with what had happened. The recession continued, the economy was going down. This look like it might be for a while a colossal failure. In effect so much so that in 1982 republicans, led by bob dole and harold baker pushed through congress a tax bill that took back some of those tax cuts. They were so worried about the deficits are opening up. And then eventually the combination of deficit spending frankly because the government had not been cut much and the tax cuts finally kicked in. And by 1982 funneling things started to take off. There is a. It looked as if this might be a riverboat gambler is power baker preferred to print a riverboat gambler that wouldve gone bust. It was not an instant success by any stretch of the imagination. Host you also write about how at this time there is sort of a scaffolding, and infrastructure being built so that reaganism without ragan. Could you talk a little bit about that . Those who were traveling with him on this road and the establishments, think tanks and outside organization. Guest again when you do a book he gets look the Rearview Mirror and suddenly there clearer that way is looking out the front windshield at times. This is one of the things i did not appreciate at the time. I live through it happen so incrementally i did not really grasp it. You go back and look you realize that one of the things that happen in the first ragan term. Also the reagan years was the construction of a conservative infrastructure that could support the reagan revolution. And it doesnt exist. Liberals had an infrastructure, a think tank network of supporters Money Organization activists off of the new deal era and beyond that supported what they were doing. Conservatives did not have that. They sort of created it. It took various forms. I had northwest americans for tax reform. An organization create at the behest of the Reagan White House when a group out there in society somewhere to support our taxcutting regiment. And to lend some firepower to support what we are doing. You have gopac which is a very sleepy organization that tried to recruit republicans from for state legislature. Newt gingrich takes it over and puts it on steroids. All the said and you have a giant nationwide farm team of republican conservatives being developed at the state level offices and house races. Theyre all being fueled by Newt Gingrichs ideas. Two and can i interrupt, describe the technology by which they are doing this . I mean i have thought, have long sought that the happiest coincidence and Newt Gingrich entire political career was the fact that he and the cspan camera arrived at the House Chamber at practically the same moment. He is spreading his message through cspan. But talk a little bit about the tapes. Newt gingrich has used two technologies that the timer cutting edges seem ridiculous now right . When was cspan cameras. He figured out if you showed up Late Afternoon on the floor of the house the cameras were on and cspan was showing what was happening to the country. But theres nothing happening. See step in you fill the vacuum where called regular order beaches. You basically spread the gospel because you have a platform available for you. He does that pretty lc uses kissimmee tapes which seems ridiculous now. He figured out they were all of these republican wannabes out there that wanted to be conservative reagan foot soldiers but they needed instruction in talking points. They needed practical advice. So he figures out the way i can do this i will make kissimmee tape recordings of things republican should say and do and know if they are going to run for office as a conservative. He sends them out by the thousands across the country to grass roots young republican politicians by large. Who are meant to take the kissimmee tapes, put them in their cars and they are going from event to event and listen to them. And they are basically getting howto instructions and doctor nation from Newt Gingrich as they go thither days and on the campaign trail. This turns a whole generation of young republican conservative into Newt Gingrich conservative conservatives. Who are all basically playing by the same playbook. So gingrich does all of those things. At the same time the nra becomes a more political organization, fueled on ironically by a democrat who is an outdoorsman very much guns rights democrat the immense is the they should defendant done right not just outdoor conservation and hunting and fishing parts of that happens. And crucially the other organization that gets created in this period was the federal society. Which was again a completely novel idea. It organization of conservative legalists. Lawyers and law professors which created an extend and spread the conservative legal gossip. What then turns out that it is an organization that is readymade to recruit federal conservative judges. So the federal society is created during this incubator. When it starts to recommend people and promote conservatives who are nominated to be judges federal and state judges. And now today the federal society is the most important force pushing conservative judges onto federal benches and the Supreme Court in all of washington. It is basically running that part of the operation for the Trump White House and to some extent which mcconnell the republican leader in the senate. All that started during the reagan years. And then have another funny story of the creation of the Heritage Foundation and essentially lends office. Again this is things are going on right under your nose you did not note the time. There is a sense early on for this is just before the reagan years in the late 70s. Some had a sense there needed to be a conservative machine and washington to counter ocs as the liberal machine. One of the people whos interested in doing this was joseph who is the coors beer magnet from colorado very conservative, interested in how to assert himself. He sends a letter to a colorado senator think im going to come to town i like to talk about how to spend money to spread the conservative gospel. And he has in mind probably giving a big check to the American Enterprise institute which is the one notable conservative think tank at the time. This letter that was intercepte intercepted. And ed fuller among a couple other people is aware of this trip. He basically hijacks the trip and arranges to meet with joseph coors. It is that i have a better idea. We should have a very aggressive small kind of green beret dig tank in washington that does not just put out white papers that people read and then put on their shelf. But its out there creating action. So he arranges to have a meeting with joseph coors to talk about this idea. But ed folders a very smart guy. He realizes this meeting will have more impact if it does not happen in some restaurant and hotel in downtown washington. But if it happens in the white house where Richard Nixon was still in office at the time. And lynn was a likeminded conservative from california was working in the white house. So they arrange for this meeting to be held in lynns office and the Old Executive Office building to impress joseph coors. They walk into the meeting and joseph coors said these guys think i should give them some money to start new conservative think tank. I think theres already one town called the American Enterprise, why dont i just give them my money . They arrange this ahead of time. They walk over to his bookshelf in the Old Executive Office building, pulled off the shelf and aei study on something, he blows dust off of it which she put on the study ahead of time the show is been sitting on my shelf gathering these for many weeks and months. This is what we do with ai studies here. They just go on the bookshelf and they gather dust. You should give money to these guys. So joseph coors cuts a check to ed for liberty because out rented townhouse on capitol hill and the Heritage Foundation is born. And it gets its name because one of its partners is walking through his neighborhood in Fairfax County virginia and suburban washington and are trying to figure out what to call it. He sees a group of Housing Division called the heritage home. He said that will be a nice name. So he called the Heritage Foundation and as they say the rest is history. As a giant multimillion dollar a year conservative think tank. It drove the reagan agenda. And it is still active today. It had its seeds in this. When conservatives felt they had double up if you will. Suet another thing you see happen over the 1980s. Especially the 1980s late going into the 90s as the language of politics begins to shift. It becomes a much rougher, darker kind of lingo that people are using. In part, Newt Gingrich is a leader in this sort of coaching acolytes on the way they should be framing these things. Suspect that is a big change. Its driven by Newt Gingrich more than anyone else. Ronald reagan had an all quality about him. He would set his jaw sometimes i get angry and talk about welfare moms and things like that. But it did not really last. People do not think of Ronald Reagan as a fighter in the personal sense. They thought of him as a kind of guy who would famously go out and have a beer at the democratic speaker of the house, to oneill after the day was over. Thats a little bit exaggerated but he was kind of a republican who could get alon