Book the rules rule. Mr. Hastings is the ceo of netflix. What is it netflix and what do you do . A world leading Entertainment Service to produce and distribute amazing Television Series and movies we have been around 20 years and have 2 million families around the world that are members. Host is there a connection to the 1990 a company where you had 900 movie titles . There is a connection we started 22 years ago renting dvds in the United States competing with blockbuster. That was a whole decade competing with video stores and then 2007 we started screaming about the same time youtube did. Host how did you get involved in this project . I study cultural differences in the workplace and i first came across netflix culture it wears way at the beginning and like adequate performance. And that struck me because in my department we were focusing on Psychological Safety in the workplace so here is a company not focusing on that but people who did not perform adequately. No vacation policy or travel policy thinking how that works in an organization. Then i found out there was something interesting. Your book the culture map is what connected you to . Absolutely. I was fortunate enough to be referred by a friend. And said and exploration of Different National culturals with the french and americans and the mexicans speaking to the challenges that we had internally. And so then asking to be a speaker to be a chronicle observer of culture and the point of having a coauthor having read a lot of books and i wonder what it is really like. She has her own reputation she is a professor and open access to interview over 100 people across the world and let her write honestly but then it comes from the tension between talking about the reality that as employees experiences. You were pretty aghast when mr. Hastings sent out the unfinished draft of the chapter to employees . Yes. [laughter] as his leadership the importance that i learned my the time that level of transparency is spearheaded by those experiences that i had and it is nowhere near finished and i sent it to him and said i would be doing interviews to say when i was reading the chapter that you wrote i said what . He said oh yeah we sent that chapter out to the managers and netflix. I said all of the managers . And talking about transparency for everybody to know whats going on. Host you are quoted to say i love the netflix culture for its content. That was my first reaction before i started doing the interview to understand netflix thats why read was interested me writing the book because it provided my reaction to the controversial principles and there was another part of that and what it said no Say Something about somebody if you would assert a it to their face a lot of us spent time at work talking about people i cannot imagine how that would play out in the work environment. Host what are some of those advantages . As a personal example, one of the first things i did in all the Vice President s and directors but they seem really engaged and then i started to walk around to those who were having a discussion and she beckoned me over and said in front of the group and my colleagues the way you present this information because we are not getting diversity. I dont think we can take this to heart. And i said oh my god somebody is getting feedback. So that i had three minutes to think about how to we organize the structure of the discussion. And then it saves the presentation but it almost always helps improve performanc performance. Host so that part of the book where we holding a conference in cuba . [laughter] because it was a simple to entertain people and cuba. Host do you have a real presence in cuba . Unfortunately in the last four years, this was about five years ago, opening the internet and cuba diminished we were on our way to a great presence there we have a strong presence in brazil and mexico and many other countries but not yet cuba. Talent density is referred t to. What is that quick. It comes from to accomplish something hard amazing people who work well together and those who dont work well together but if you combine people men in many cases a small number can be very effective. Is it normal, first of all if you sure the word Corporate Culture what do you think . My name first book culture map i have never been interested until i came across this company because almost every company i have looked at the Corporate Culture is to what we would let this company be like. We believe in respect but what i saw with the netflix is to explain the culture but instead to help make decisions by looking at these between power density and then to help people deal with the use tension filled with red come alive in the organization and thats i with netflix here with the First Time Ever what they say is Corporate Culture. Of the speed taken to fourdoor gm and implemented their . Thats a great point. We had 200 years of factories providing enormous gains to our culture and the factory is a topdown system with a senior boss and all the workers never make a mistake and assemble the perfect car were pharmaceutical or airplane. The manufacturing paradigm is very strong because it is invaluable. And that culture is wellsuited to a factory then you have another type of Creative Work that used to be very small but now it has grown to be substantial part of the economy to be over influenced by the factory the paradigm and you want to increase the relation and to experiment and learn and to think of it as fertile as the goal and sterile in the factory and in the creating an environment to get the best idea so we have figured out the right paradigms for Creative Work and the culture is one where it is no rules because they are managing on the edge of chaos about culture and context that think of it as a set of paradigms wellsuited to Creative Work and it is not suitable for critical safety work with the beginning of two paradigms. So writing a book has an old medium. We First Published the ideas on slide share with over 20 million views of that. But i very much were into the new format where we took the time to read it with a highly the polished well thought through story and those who lead the culture with that explanation. Host after your indepth study of netflix, where are your criticisms still . You are asking if there was a culture of more traditional Manufacturing Company but it struck me as i was doing this research any area of any Companies Seeking to be more innovative or flexible to reinvent themselves more quickly can benefit from these principles so look at michelin tires but certainly there are areas of that company so i do think any organization anyone who wants to get more innovation can learn from this environment that we were talking about. Talk about criticisms and doing something is there are always some difficulties that go with that and what comes up of courses we only had a talent some people nervous if they will lose their jobs. And thinking about netflix and how to reduce that worry while taking advantage. You have a story in the book with npr to netflix being a team versus a family. Whereas most Companies Think about organizations as families like longterm security and then at that time. I agree every time you hear and organization because they intuitively know a family is put together that we admire and thats just not the way corporations work. Host in your book you write that employees are not allowed. What does that mean . And choosing how many dvds to buy for certain film i said i dont think that will be a very popular film and he ordered less then he would have and we ran out and customers were any on and happy and i said why did you order so few and he said you didnt think it would be popular. I said you have to do what it is right you are not allowed to let me drive the bus off the cliff you have to fight for the company and in general we say dont seek to please your boss at the customers to grow the company so we want people to think independently not implemented the bosses intuition. Will certainly they should tell them but the idea to get everybody in the company thinking you best bring the customers and if they do you get the tremendous results. As a founder of the company the largest are called and ceo but you dont have an office but at the same time there are qualities there that will make people do what you want. Sure. I lead by direction and example and i talk about what is important like customers and other times they want to be pushed so with that Customer Experience to talk about culture. Is not that i dont want some things but we want everyone else to also want things and in those conflicts over disagreements a lot of good things come out of that. Host is a tough for a ceo to let go of that control . It is an interesting process we have implemented because on the one hand there are some strong opinions on the other hand he is strongly made it clear he wants people to be clear with him when they disagree. So they have a thing. That is is you were so asking me earlier all dade on dared given his level in the company and i would say it is remarkably and health issue the people do get a because whenever it happens. How much time do you get to just think . A lot of times and to talk through that i want to know what is going on all throughout the company and say and its not limited just to one area but i would go to the principles which is then that gets to the underlying lesson. So im always trying to be and then trying to understand the problem versus fix them. Is the geographical area. It is one of and then to come out of the Silicon Valley but to demand and that they have just the plus side to write about those differences and 2016 all over the world and leading to this innovation and over the life champion and said even with those controls. And then they come up. And we have had longstanding relationships with them both in particular hbo and that can be more challenging to a relationship. Host we cannot talk about this headache got allies and the founding head of hr who shoot you this but then to count how many hours somebody works in a day for taylor ten or 12 but yet in the old days we use to count vacation brother working 46 or 48 or 50 weeks per year. We realized why do we care between 46 or 50. Now. So that is with almost no risk. Host service to hastings what is the key at the last 22 years . And we think about what we have to achieve ahead. And the key is this and then to connect people through entertainment of other peoples lives it could be other countries, other cultures, other genders or and they think about 6 billion may have to take care of these and we are just getting started. The big threat in the long run is not making a mistake. Its great to be back