Investigative skills in the private sector the ceo of a group. Is the founder of the center. And his specialty is Global Security affairs everything from governance poachers to state actors to nonstate actors and going to try to explore as much of that today as we can. In one think that i one of time that is each day we publish. Something that you should really read every day. Its a wonderful deep dive into a timely issue goes to the heart of what we should be thinking about even if it is not in the headlines. Anything from White Supremacy is on to what is happening with al qaeda and isis to the geopolitics of the nationstate and powers. I encourage you to read every day. I also encourage you to read this sponsor, in its 14th year. And bring to the news everyday but what you should be thinking about National Security in a variety of dimensions. So la, thank you for joining me today. Welcome. Ali thank you. Karen autostart but talking about the book and then will turn to other things. As you know, from invitation, you can join us online and you can buy this by pushing the button to buy it. And as we are talking a man will get to your questions. Look for schematic 2011, it was subtitled, the inside story of 911 and the war against al qaeda. Now it focuses on something different. So much of what had been redacted and classified had to do with torture, and interviews with al qaeda and others. I want to get to derailing the war on terror. So was talk a little bit about how the war on terror was derailed and how this book came to be rated. Ali i wrote the book back in 2011, it was supposed to be a book about the recounting my own personal experience and serving the nation on the war of terrorism. Wrote the book to be a publication can start a conversation. Based on fact. Based on all the successes that we have after 911. And also the failures. To the response to 911. The iraq war for example, tortures another example. So when i submitted the book, to the fbi for review. As anyone could expect, it was a productive process. They asked me to change a couple of things which do not create any problems for me because these things will kind of within the boundaries of any prepublication. Unfortunately, the fbi finished our review, they senate out of courtesy to the agency. Then suddenly, they started to get really crazy as youve probably seen from the first one. Pronouns were being redacted in anything that has to do with actually happen that in the rooms, how we get information. And we learned later on the up these things were redacted it. So couldnt say well you know, this could not work. Somehow you get the information regarding this but i cannot say how did we get that information. How do we get this information from the mastermind. And then, anything that has to do with technique programs. Was redacted. I described the process of distortion by rent reduction. Fewer for torture, you could say anything your one youre able to publish it. When the review board would give you the green light. But if you have a problem, and what happened to telling the truth about what took place in these Interrogation Rooms about it was redacted. So after nine years month of fighting and after the clinics jumped in to help others to challenge the reduction process. They were asked if they could do another review of the book. And that was fine. Is very fair. For the most part, everything that they had predicted has been unredacted. Now, we can read exactly what happens. So the very First Edition of the book was about the war on terrorism. In jail, everything that happened in 1996 until the state. So now, it is in a way the same book, there is so much information that has been classified on the National Security grounds the first time. It makes it another book. Apiece they did not exist. None of these things had to do with contacting program. With torture and when you read it when you see it, youll see how that program was devastating to the interest in devastating to all of the success. Or the lack thereof the war on terror. Someone give this opportunity here, to think that leadership for giving or taking this amazing step of transparency. Classifying it so the people that can read the truth. Because what he said in the black banner back in 2001, my firsthand experience, there were two Interrogation Rooms, i saw what was happening. And in any instances, i got the information personally or i saw it. When you look into this, listen okay, see their classified on a National Security grounds. Which are actually admitting, is interest for you because you dont classified lies. I was lying, knowing is full of it. But if its classified, now im a that helped the truth in the long run. Now when people read it, what happened or what happened with the people in the book. It is known, they will know the truth. It will into by so any people who through all of the successes, and made it as a result of this socalled reduction techniques. And that is why the decision was made to change the subtitle of the book. [inaudible]. This is the first time we will read exactly what happened in the Interrogation Room for you you will have a front seat two Interrogation Room. Karen so it is a rare occurrence when something becomes declassified. I formal official in a way that it had been declassified. Im probably unprecedented in in this case. What you think god declassified it. Does it have anything to do with this is the report. Do you think it has anything to do with the ci kind is in a different message. Ali i think first of all, i am grateful. For the law clinic. And all the people for telling my. [inaudible]. And trying to hear about this declassification. But i believe that a lot of people wrongfully and you and i talked about this, believe that the torture program, under believe that the cia program. We had these discussions before. The torture program, even the cias Inspector General, defunded as a ct seat program. Within the cia. A lot of people for officers and cia, were not under cdc is you will now see it in the book. So that is why so any people from this field went in and complained to the Inspector General and the Inspector General, began an investigation and actually made clear that you could not have any of this be discussed. A number two, yes this program worked traditionally interrogation marked per unit well, is a subjective matter. Its very difficult. We will talk about anything. Lend the second mistake a lot of people made. [inaudible]. I am glad now the book has been unredacted afraid because it shows that was not was with the cia, it was them hiring a contractor overseeing a program for you because it is bigger the cdc at the time. And how now we look at everything that happened we find out that what i was talking about a 2002, and then in 2011 had been unredacted afraid now we can see it is happening. For example, we can do not prosecute any of these people for anything even though they have american blood in the hands because of what they once did. Believe theres a lot of new people in the cia. In the Intelligence Community and in the government that believed that unless the cia Inspector General can do, the believe of what ive said in the book. The believe what the report came up with. Those people were new and not involved in all of the problems of the past. They didnt make these decisions in the past. Those people left. Something a lot of people wanted to turn the page i wanted to put everything away. So there is a transcendent to the two did not see for the last two decades. And that is why the timing of the release of this book is extremely important. Because what we think today, is a political culture based on alternative facts and talking points and conspiracy theories. But this is no trump. This is been disrupted. In our culture of our own times. As we see, just a step towards to what is happened. In one of these issues, what is a partisan issue. To believe in what it was. If you dont believe in the republican, and most probably the democrats. [inaudible]. Everything, thats what President Trump at the time candidate trump would say. [inaudible]. Was an issue for him something brings the cheers of the crowd. But now, youll have the opportunity to see the facts behind it. To see the truth behind the disinformation and about the efficacy of the relation techniques for unit and you will see at the Different Levels operationally and strategically totally failed and heard our National Security interest. Karen lets talk about that. We often hear the phrase this is also been partisan eyes. And it is that culture doesnt work. For other things didnt work. I was curious, it can mean so any different things. Does mean you dont get the information. You dont get the information at all. But you get that information. It means, a variety of things that you can talk about institutionally to the road. Like not being able to try people for it. The tortures of the war, it didnt work. And talk about the universe that you are talking about. Ali you are right. But i want to talk about it from the left perspective. I want to show you down the road, in every country in tortures, comes true. The terrorism that we came out today came out of the ones we tortured were not going to go down that path. Marination we have prosecutions. Seen these of Inhumane Treatment spread right. We have to protect the constitution against all enemies. Foreign and domestic. These constitutional protections have trials, humane treatment. They have all kinds of things that were talking about. But also, the cornerstone of our International Policy and who we are as a nation, the nation believes in freedom, and democracy dont like Ronald Reagan said, shiny see and help. We advocate for human rights. State department, and calling enemies. In our allies who practice sleep deprivation. These are from the 2002 departments report about li countries in the world. When we were doing it ourselves. So when you have significant contradictions, between the la laws, between who we are as a nation, between what we say publicly in between our strategies, when these things dont go handinhand together. Bigger. If you dont insult your enemy, he managed to forget about yourself in new york. You have no clue about the enemy, you going to fail. And on the eve of 911 and al qaeda, called the United States, trillions of dollars just become 40000 members today. another all across in somalia llama and you name it. Im not even mentioning ices that came out of al qaeda. And it came out of the world is longer than world work one or two. And guess what. We in such a dangerous situation today. This is because other laws in our strategies. They did not go together. This number one. [inaudible]. And this is everybody, the biggest redactor was back from 2000 to. We invented the country, hundreds of thousands of people are dead. Trillions of dollars have been wasted. You name it. Al qaeda was dying before this morning a wreck and ultimately gave birth to us. At the time, there was evidence that saddam and al qaeda were working together. Everybody in the cia and fbi knew these things, we know this. But that was not good enough. So the tip of god, he was with al qaeda. It tortured him. Working together. Absolutely. [inaudible]. Some of this disinformation, now the Security Council i think everybody remembers. Powell, back in 2002. And talking about al qaeda and saddam are working together which would be devastating in any city around the world. We found out everything. Then we cannot it was a lie. He did not make sense. [inaudible]. Rated i said but in july and he said because you are torturing me. So operationally speaking, theres a big difference between compliance and cooperation. Compliance is what i get. [inaudible]. Fine, we will torture a guy and we will get the information and then there will be war thats exactly what happened. So very difficult for us to go to the white house and save will torture you and uses information. Just because the information we want. So now, cooperation, you get the truth. So theres a big difference between compliance and cooperation. We dont have unlimited resources. Like in some instance we did. Because of the false information that they were getting. Evincing this book however getting facts. And some of the threats for example, they were watching tv, they sought jumping oh my gosh they will die. We go off that bridge prayed and then suddenly, within 24 hours on cnn, that they were watching al qaeda blew up the brooklyn bridge. [inaudible]. Is a big gap that what happened and what we showed the American Public and the timeframe so i think there is a big difference between compliance and cooperation. It other elements of the operation, that we do all of the time is basically just a story. And theres Liberty Justice or ego justice. And what we have today, our people who have blood in their hands. We have a mastermind who admits more than 3000 birds. He admitted that. Weekend not prosecuting in any course. The Inspector General actually warned about that. All of these things are back on hold and back 2002. You have to think long term. Because after all, we are the United States of america and we have lost. Karen lets talk a little bit about the times when you want the military commissions and how torture has affected them. There is a disconnect. We want to try them. But we want to give them the evidence of the tortures. And get around the fact that theyve been torture departed all of the sins complicate the legal process. You think the liver be tried. Ali i dont know. I think it will be a difficult situation. Seriously, i think some of these guys went to block sites. A lot of the information became tainted it. Now how do you proceed with prosecuting someone when theyre trying to classify this time. That they were in the black life. Thats certainly a complexity. And we still cannot prosecute some of these. Just by looking at the profiles itself. Believe me we help this prosecution and llama and suddenly and more rules of evidence and you can imagine. [inaudible]. They were able to find a judge to convict them. And to sentence him to death. So we know what we have nationally and in her own case files but unfortunately, were not allowed to talk to them because of the torture program. And were not aware of the information resulted from the harsh treatment. And now, the people he killed, these crusaders who murdered in the gulf of asia, still waiting justice rated. Karen with a question from our audience. Somebody over to the middle east. Infrequently had damaging information. Basically during that episode, is not what we you to do to move beyond this. Ali i think what is great about the United States, that we do eventually do the right thing. And i think the whole world sees all of these things happening. They see people like john mccain standing up god rest his soul. In support somebody like me. And how after nine years and has been unredacted. They can know the truth about the program. This is all positive for america. This is all positive. Everything that is happening there is still some life. It is still in that chinese cit city. I believe its good. I agree if you watch the hearings that took place with the Armed Services committee. Basically the images were in iraq than anything else. And that benefited al qaeda at the time tremendously. It was disastrous. It was disastrous for the iraqi people, frankly. I believe that by turning the page, by having that moment of truth in the moment of transparency and hopefully can lead too a moment of accountability, i think we can movie on this. You know, every country in the world is allowing the state. Unfortunately have a few mistakes. I think the United States will move past this. Straka won a talk a bit about the middle east region. On the tremendous instability in the region. Unless you say its more stable than im suggesting. Certainly the iraq war began a process that has unraveled to this day. You look at gavin, you look at syria. He looked at the difficulties of the afghan peace talks. Do you see a down spiral to see in a positive direction . How should we see whats happening . Speak to the middle east is always been a big mass now just a way bigger mass. We cannot disconnect between what has happened today and between the United States losing the leadership position in the world. I think we are advocating the world order. And you see that in europe we see that in the allies decedent that in us pulling out of international agreements. Receipt by advocating the fight against covid for example this is the first time in a Global Crisis with leadership in the United States. You see with Climate Change, use it with the pandemic. Somebody elses always willing to fill the gap. You see the regimes like china and russia are more than eager to fill the vacuum started to happen. See the vacuum started to happen in different places around the world specifically in the middle east. I now in the middle east the saudis are trying to get out. As a bigger audience trying to have an arc of influence of nonstate actors in yemen to lebanon to a lot of the shiite militia, afghanistan, some of the shiite groups in syria. And the ironic and so forth. You see turkey is trying to play the same game with iraq of the state actors. Is time to reclaim they believe their own historical influence. We see them in state actors in syria and libya. Something thats happening because the United States with itself. And we have allies we fight with us, bleed with us. As one thing guaranteeing for them you see it 11000 fighters with isis hopefully not the United States. They protect themselves and their cities. There people we can actually depend on. Look at the pakistan government. We started to negotiate the taliban we kept them on the side. Now w