Transcripts For CSPAN2 House Hearing On Insurance Coverage During COVID-19 20240711

Their video functions on at all times even when they are not recognized by e chair. Members are also reminded tha they are responsible for muting and on muting themselves and to commute to themselves after ty finishedpeaking. Constent with the regulations accompanying House Resolution 965 will only mute members and witnesses as appropriate. When not recognized for inadvertent background noise. Members are rinded that our house rules relatin to the order andhe decorum of the hearing. This hearing is entitled insuringgainst a pandemic challenges and solutions for policiesnd i now recognize myself for three minutes to begin with an opening statement. According to the Congressional Research service, 110 million ople could enter a state of extreme poverty do that tohe global econoc contraction and here in the United States, 67 Million People filed for Unemployment Insurance since march of this year. The harmfu effects of this pandemic are the stability of small bunesses like restaurants cannot be overstated. Thereve been literally dozens of restaurants in my home district in st. Louis that have closed, many permanently,s a result of this pandemic. Andith them, the vendors, the Truck Drivers Storage Facilities and tire supply chains arell affected. Though many businesses have insurance, most of the policies have exclusions for pandemics which are likely to be upheld by the courts. I would add that for many around this country the probability of failing to enforce a policy is unlikely given t high cost of litigation. On the other hand it isnt realistic or practical to expect the Insurance Industry to shoulder t astronomical cost of a Global Pandemic. The american property and Casualty Insurance association has estimated that paying all claims regardless of exclusions would amount to trillion per month while the legislation by my colleague like congressman thompson and congresswoman maloney and the input. My bottom line is any solution will need effective buyin from the industry with a conunum posed by the fact that my of the busine interruption case is being adjudicated have been dismissed and f businesses to make an expectation that you have some skin in the game particularly if youre going to petition or even accept. The industry could work with the siness and consumer groups for a type of umbrella policy of which the businesses pay because thisurrent system isight and because it is my firm belief they shouldnt need a battalion of lawyers after faithfully paying and i look forward to the testimony of the wnesses as we roll up our sleeves and try to find a viable solution. At this time the chair now recognizes t Ranking Member for an opening statent. Thank you for convening the hearing. Id lik to take aoment to thank congresswoman maloney f her efforts to put fth an idea as early as may of this year her work should be applauded as a symbolic first step and id le to take a moment backward and put the hearing in perspective. The problems and solutions we ll discuss today are about creating a plan for the next pandemic for that reason so mh more important that we do itight then get itast. Congresswoman maloney reach out and asked for bartisan colloration. I feel very strongly as you do to mr. Chairman and that any product that we put fth must have meaningfu support from both parties, and ultimately if we are going to have any impact on the Senate Deliberations w need a big vote so we need a bipartisan agreement. And as the Ranking Member of the subcmittee, i can tell you republicans are committed to working in a bipartisan way but need to mak sure that as we do that, i think again we take a step back and dont start with a preconceived outcome. When we take a step back maybe we will use the insurance model or maybe we willnd up with a noninsurance approach likeou pandem. We must make sure that it solves e problem of the businesses that are shut down during the xt pandemic. Some of my colleagues today may focus on the existing framework inlace for the Risk Insurance but i want to be clear the scale and scope of the pandemic is orders of magnitudeigger than a terrorist attack and you illustrated that, mr. Chairman. We should spend our time tryg to understand the nature of the problem and the issues around those that will be testifying today. Furthermore, its prove disastrous and anyolution we adess must look at cancellations and thats something that isnt in the legislation. I would like now to yield time to the Ranking Member t before i do while i am not advocating for any one proposal i would ask unanimou consent to ent into the record they did not hav a witness that was allowed for this hearing so i wouldsk unanimous consent to enter their statement into the record. A. Without objection. I am going to recognize the mr. Mchenry. When the pandemic hit in march the Economic Forecasters are warning Small Businesses many of which havent recovered from the disruption they have experienced already this year may permanently close the policymakers act. Congress has an Important Role to play but with the election of president elect joe biden im hopeful the government will respond to this pandemic effective leadership which has been and continues to be absent. Im thankful for the witnesses we have and yield back thank you mr. Chairman. I would now recognize the Ranking Member of the full committee the gentleman from North Carolina for two minutes. Thank you chairman clay for your leadership. You have been a strong advocate for your convictions during your time in congress and i want to commend you for also your bipartisan work i appreciate the committee holding this hearing. Its been delayed because of the nature of the selection year and whats happened they put a marker down. While i have concerns about the construct of her legislation. There are some unworkable parts of the issues laid out and some unresolved parts but we have come to a bipartisan agreement that have impacts on the business. We need to look at the solutions and incentivize the participation. And solutions that are scalable and theyve saved millions of Small Businesses. Thank you for holding this important hearing. After the terrorist attacks of 9 11, the economy completely shut down. We couldnt build anything because Insurance Companies against terrorist attacks so we came together in a bipartisan way and past and it unlocked the market and got the economy moving again and put people back to work and that is what we are trying to do with the pandemic. Tens of thousands of Small Businesses have closed their doors permanently and entire industries and theyve been upended and have no way to protect themselves from future pandemic related. Currently, Business Interruption insurance policies explicitly exclude pandemics. We cant continue to expose the economy and Small Businesses to this level of risk and expect them to recover. We know the federal government. And during the next crisis, so why not to be proactive and develop a longterm solution. This is a starting point for a forwardlooking Risk Sharing Partnership that would provide a federal backstop that include coverage for pandemics. It would create a totally voluntary program and insurers could provide the policy if they wanted to and policyholders could purchase them if they wanted to. Its totally voluntary. This is supported by more than 50 stakeholder organizations. Its the best way to structure such a program and im willing to collaborate with any of my colleagues in the democratic republic who approve of the bell and movbilland move to do just. Today we welcome the testimony of the distinguished witnesses. The owner of the bloomberg general store on behalf of the National Retail federation. We also have john doyle president and ceo. Brian leman, the chief counsel on behalf of ap cia. Michelle, chief underwriting officer and an International Center the witnesses are reminded that your testimony wi be limit to five minutes and you should be able to see a time that will indicate how much time is left. I would ask you to be mindful if you hear the time so we can be respectful of both the witnesses and the Committee Members time. Your written statement will be made part of tecord you are now recognized for five mutes to give an oral presention of your testimony it is an honor to appear to discuss the pandemic risk from a policyholders perspective. I would like to give a special shout out and thanks to the congresswomen whove been a champion for the women owned businesses. Women owned and operated since the get go and the House Business Committee the fact that this hearing is being held shows members of Congress Care about people on main street. The National Federation has partnered with congresswoman Carolyn Maloney to sponsor and we would like to thank you for the leadership on the issue. We look forward to bringing muchneeded protection across the country to those that have been suffering during this crisis. Retail sales and jobs have been demonstrated by this and its not only a Health Crisis but a dire economic crisis. It is an honor to appear today on behalf of. When my team and i discussed closing friday march h i immediately called my Insurance Company live near never steered me wrong they either follow my shop on instagram. And then moving to a new location seven years ago. I quadrupled my business. Hes always been extremely forward to help me with my business. Was 12 months of business income if i needed to shut down and also special Flood Insurance which cost 6182 annually for i also carry workers comp. With his harsh realities i quickly learned from the insurance policies like mine now wasnt considered not property damage. Now denying policyholders coverage when they needed at the most what happened to like a Good Neighbor or you are in good hands . Then i slowly realized what was happening even if i put on social media to reach out there was no relief in sight and then to how to keep on the financial obligations and figuring out our next move. The experience with the darkest of my life. Navigating the uncertainty of the business compounded by the traumatic experience hoping to get a ppp loan. We did receive a 50000 loan thanks to congress in support of the c. A. R. E. S. Act which help us to keep afloat were closed over three minutes missing easter mothers day. Share we made 166,000 understand only covers future pandemics but we never know when the next pandemic will come we didnt see this one coming in the meantime marriage members of congress to look at those businesses that were forced to close during government mandates. Also the National Retail federation not only for widespread availability but Insurance Coverage gossip or pandemic coverage. And those that were hard hit by covid19 the pandemic insurance i have a federal program to help administer Insurance Coverage model on the program that was established in 9 11 its time for washington to do the same for a pandemic. Not every pandemic has a worldwide impact but when it occurs legislation of that approach of managing that is time for Real Solutions for real problems prepared for any estions you may have. You are recognized for five minutes you may pceed. And my name is john doyle i am ceo of marsh the Worlds Largest Insurance Broker i appreciate the opportunity to speak to to ensure pandemic risk first and foremost we are deeply concerned of the impact on the economy to be an advocate for clients which is why im here with you all today. The Publicprivate Partnership is the best for a solution and to recognize the leading role the congressmans had in the debate including introduce the legislation and compelling reasons to act now. Moving for Capital Markets will seek assurance that companies have protection against perspective pandemic risk. The pace of recovery depends upon the nature and the degree of confidence in the marketplace. Taking action now has financial protection against future pandemics to absorb some of the initial financial shock. If we start now we will bend the risk her for future pandemics. But by definition pandemics are global that they cannot diversify against them as of other catastrophes and the stakes around the policyholders may include businesses for all sectors are too high to defer action as he thought about a workable solution the following principles have guided us first look at Risk Mitigation how is that designed to encourage resilience to the community . For example should we incentivize prohibitive measures will be linked to ongoing government commitments next is the funding model a Publicprivate Partnership with increased private partnership at the appropriate level of industry commitment. And with the scope of coverage is that compulsory or should also be compulsory for purchase . Next is to chew on distribution to contemplate that what was required, Going Forward basis and the technology needed. Finally the claim process a solution of a welldefined trigger of relevant thresholds and specified how and when they deserve to be paid. With financial social benefits to mitigate economic losses while also providing greater certainty about sustained recovery. So which you may be asking it is complex the last several months have said those commercial Insurance Market does not fully provide businesses and others with what they need against the enormous cost of a pandemic it is rarely purchased that makes policyholders reluctant to ensure against it but at the same time explicitly include pandemic risk the main reason is sporadic and for that capacity to bear now they look to existing policies with the loss from covid19 even without specific pandemic insurance in place they will pay out tens of billions of dollars of covid19 related losses nevertheless some policyholders will be disappointed the complex nature means we need Strong National Risk Management to require insurers back to the federal government to a pandemic insurance policies and to contribute the risk knowledge and infrastructure. Widespread pandemic coverage the Publicprivate Partnership will help to facilitate coverage and then incentivize the preparedness and mitigation. And insurance product in the process associated with pandemics. With those greater economic incentives thank you look forward to your questions. Thank you and know at this time. Good morning chairman clay Ranking Memberlay bird and subCommittee Members. My ne is Michelle Mclaughlin and the chief underwritg officer for the Small Business commerci middlemarket at ch one of the largest insurers of small,edium, Large Businesses around the world thank you for inviting me to speak regardin pandemic risk that has risk sharing by the Insurance Industry my world gives me a uniquinsight into the economic effects of ndemics. And i appreciate the opportunity and is covid19 has shown but also devastating with their impact on the economy and peoples livelihoods. We believe the Insurance Industry is an Important Role to play alonide the federal government to provide sistance to blunt the Economic Impact of future pandemics. Those th are not insurable in the private Insurance Marketith other catastrophes like wildfires and hurricanes listed to specific geography or time. They can affect entire colonies in almost every business. The private insurance marke cannot underite the us economy but the Insurance Industry should have a meaningful role to provide coverage as part of a Publicprivate Partnership with a greater understanding of pandemic ri better preparedness and to create a amework to help congress think about ways to do tt the proposal has two components arounfive Key Attributes arogram that has a meaningful role for the Insurance Industry to share pandemic rk with the government and that is recognizes the immediateeed of Small Business to provide affordility and choice for Small Businesses with strong incentives with th Insurance Industry and respoible. The first component addresses thneed of Small Businesses in the second focuses on middle and Large Businesses. We have bifuated the program because small and Large Businesses differently. They require a different approa the detls are included wherein testimony part o is for Small Businesses to provide coverage for up to three months of payroll plus other expenses such as rent and utilities claims are based on predetermined amount paid automaticallwhen the program is triggered this provides policyholders with certainty they will receive timely Financial Assistance after an Event Industry share of the risk increases fr 15 billion in the first of the program to 3billion over 20 years. To address concerned that some insurers may not havthe Financial Capacity to assume risk each individual insurers retention is basedn the market share. The smaller insurewith less market share would assume less liability under the program. Policyholders ly pay for private sector covage not government provided assistance which keeps premiums affordable. Part two is a federal reinsurance facility for businesses withore than 500 employees. Private Insurance Companies that choose to sell coverage would write pandemic policies at market terms and retain so portion of the risk the rest would have adequate rates for coverage purchase wld be voluntary to ensure between one and three months of coverage with the maximu payout of 50 million per policy we estimate this posure would b 400 billion incrsing to 30 billionears 11 in your ten of the Program Proposal is one of several that have been suggested in recent months the framework might not answer the questions to address the unique nee of small and Large Businesses it is critical to any program we appreciate it would her to work in working with you on this critical issue thank yo you. Thank you mrs. Mclaughlin you are now recognized for five minutes you may proceed. Ranking member stivers and members the subcommittee im senior fellow and the law of economics i concur with the other wiesses pandemic risk is at the industry cannot solve on its own and of insurance is a bus structure insurance can see it on the ngers of moral hazard insurance i will be clear i dont have those concerns about the propal before you today if it were to backstop for liability thats where we do need price signals to signal the businesses to invest in litigation to otect employees and customers theres nothing the business can do to avoid a pandemic that cou be rolled to the federal government to pport this disruption about one third of businesses have Business Interruption to remove virus exclusions with property insurance policy and and claims disputes any f Business Interruption needs to show dage to the property. The legal theory in covid claims certain contamination is damage moshave nothing to do thiss to avoid transmission between people ats not covered by property insurance. And required to be a shut down and plummeted in places where there were no shutdowns and it was long after because consumers do not want to be infected the best argument is that insurers can help to mitigate the risk but its important is not the risk that it is unsafe thats on the liability side of the risk is that the business will shut down during a pandemic we want the business to shut down and have a safety net so they can survive they were schools are close but the bars and shims are open and then to long preach the gospel, i am telling you the riskbased program for restaurants and Community Theaters and churches pay the most. I think that the outcome that you want. How much has that changed . That seems generous it doesnt that now. With a 500 billiondollar program now 150 billiondollar program if it were in place during covid so lets be humble of the current pandemic so if you want participation with a bias toward Small Business and already have Insurance Options available this should be just the Insurance Industry program with those to help market it and not to go to the claims adjuster process some of those will end up in court so that trigger is much better. It also specifies the bank and only use it for rental payroll but lawmakers should understand that is on how Business Interruption works they can make an interruption claim at the same time without a loss of employees. Unless they have their own programs and partially reimbursed them. And then to take your time with ad Hoc Solutions and to get help to the businesses and workers and communities that need it right now. Thank you. Now you are recognized for five minutes. Mr. Perlman. Members of the subcommittee thank you for the oprtunity to be here today. And the senior Corporate Counsel shelter a Mutual Company that is headquartered in columbia missouriounded in 1946 primarily to serve the inrance needs of an on ssouri missouri farmers going into a company tt now rights auto the property in busiss and Life Insurance in 21 states and conducts business internationally. Im here on behalof the american propertycasualty insurae Association National association mutual Insurance Companies which together represent more than 90 percent of home, ao and business insurers in the country. Ver said earlier shelters that prompt action to see the needs of policyholders a a mutua company and work with policyholders on a casebycase basis with the current financl challenges. Those to designate for charity shelters know for doing the right ing will continue to respond to the rapiy evolving situation. Will do rit by the policyholders and employees we will help peace of mind is the Committee Congress goes about the future pandemic however it is imperative we understand the core pnciple. Not every risks insable. Insurance gulators across the country understand the pandemic risk this is true fore covid19 it will be true after for a numberf reasons including it is impossible to diversify the losses whichs a fundamental tenet of insurance. Cod19 affects tens of millions of businesses simultaneously in the numbers and data protectioexceed the capacity of the insurance instry to provide the protection. Undersnding they are the alternative mechanism to protect business from future pandemics. Whatever it looks like it should be focused on rl and efficient and effective assistance our industry believes the risk expertise and infrastructure to an end with his protection models meetinwith stakeholders and businesses with the Business Continuity protection plan. The cpp model after congress for world war ii it would provide revenue replacement solution f businesses and nonprofits of all types it would set up a program in u. S. Easury for fully subsidized revenue replacement product y business or nonprofit in the us. America Small Business for a sile application for the three months of 80 percent revenue placement distributed to license Insurance Professionals they could then e these funds for other operating cost during the pandemic. Parametric trigger mechanism would eliminate the fricti for a quick automated release established in advance tput cash in the handsmmediately avoiding a long detailed covege analysis for complex claims adjustment procedur responding directly to stakeholders withhe event cancellation provisions those at seek the additional protection were need more specialized coverage most importantly thbe cpp is the current proposal that would be most affordae for america Small Business with the federal backstop it would be far more expensive because pricing for the product would federally subsidized toe made more affordable from the other ograms this encouraging a high takeup te which is essential for preserving the broader economy during a crisis we are appreciative of the ideas and the proposals brought forward by congressional leaders in the Business Community to dress the pandemic was challenges we are committed to working with you wit affordable protection thank you very mh. Thank you all the Witnesses Today with her testimony i recognize myself for five minutes. According to the National Association of Insurance Commissioners with that of 94000 interruption claims made during the pandemic were less than 1 percent of these claims had been paid out so all the operated business in this country it does not mean a battalion to understand and make claims of the policy and miss most Business Owners are not experts with that language and its frustrating to understand especially when youre trying to pay her staff, and deal with payroll taxes and other potential liabilities. Can you please share for us were kind of tall has the pandemic had on businesses like your own especially those that believe they have policies . Many of my colleagues quite honestly have close their businesses not able to survive in this is devastati in so many ways one cleague had 34 people working for her another was in business 18 years. It has been stressful trying to figure out what our next move would be. After the terrorist attack september 11, not supporting Major Construction without first getting approval that the project had terrorism insurance. At the time is virtually unavailable or extremely unaffordable. Congress responded by passing in 2002 today we are considering the pandemic risk adherence act which is based largely on the same program put the scale of the pandemic is even bigger. Are pandemics and terrorism events comparable enough to use a model for affordable coverage for pandemics also . Thank you for your question mr. Chairman. Thank you, chair man. I do belie that you would indeed exacerbate the problems of ththe criticisms are warrantt basing this on a similar model would exacerbate that because of the sustainabilityty to spread e sk. Are there other ways t strengthen and do you have any thoughts on that . I think the risk as i said is a very different risk that i dont think can be based on this purpose. I think that the product would be unaffordable, tomac. Thank you. I now recognize the distinguished Ranking Member for five minutes going to step back and look at the scope and scale because i tnk there are some big differences here. Its hard to me the model work for the pandemic. My first question [inauble] for two months and many analysts haveaid it is a t month shot down because of the next pandemic. Thank you, congressman in your opening remarks as did the chair man, we applaud the congresswoman for putting a proposal on the table. Theres no questions as some of my participants justified before you today the economic consequences are quite differe different. Depending uponhe overall ambitions. For the rerd wouldnt it be true that above that limit the insuranc companies until they are completely broken and bankrupt because of that you will find almost no Insurance Companies that would be willing to produce the current models that we are talking about today in the legislation and i think that is the key so i appreciate that and our conversation when we talked about and i appreciate you taking this approach. What we can do is cap the liability of each individual Insurance Company so that it adds a small level and they grew it over time is there any way to make this a risk . I think by its very nature i dont think that there cld be. There would be the tens of billions of businesses at the me time. Assuming we cannotake it and assumable risk and an exact dollar stop loss with that how comforting would that be depending where the stoploss is. I think, congressman, that using an insurancebased model you also have to factor in the adjusting process and the cost and the time of the adjusting process and th affordabili. It is a parametric approach and not on the pandemic there isnt time or scale for the adjustment process, so it is a parametric approach. I thi if we look at it as this current pandemic we have had wildfires in colorado and a tornado in arkansas and hurricanes in louisiana, tse are our policyholders that we areherefore that we were paying out and taking care of and to do that [inaudible] im sorry, Ranking Member. I had a hard time hearing your question. I was asking if [inaudible] about the event cancellation covege . Our proposal was trying to cover main street americao the propal doesnt really coemplate the cancellations but certainly we can expand it and we see thats needed in the future as well. I will yield back. The time is expired and i now recognized the chairwoman of the Small Business committee, the gentlewoman from new york, ms. Velasquez for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. It is nice to see you again. Ive been so concerned about the impact and how it is impacting the Small Businesses that back in maine on the Business Interruptions i would like to ask hold on one moment. Do you think that if we had a program in place like the ones we are discussing here today under the pandemic Risk Insurance act that they would be in a financial position and better prepared to withstand the economic [inaudible] absolutely. It would have been a game changer for me and countless others in the community a around the country absolutely. Tha you. Since the start of the pandemic, insurance organizations have consistently mainined that the Business Interruption are uninsurable which instead your organization has proposed the creation of the business section program. First, can you explain i it is in uninsurable risk and tn how the Business Protection Program will work . Sure, thank you, congresswoman. As ive said previously, that think that it is an uninsurable risk certainly for small and mediumsized insurers such as the shelter where you would have millions of claimall at the same time throughout the entire country. Its just somethinghat would not be a risk for us and i dont think quite frankly for most companies. But think what we have proposed would be a progr that would have the trigger where because it is a federal program and it would be subsidized by the federal government there would be premiums that would be paid but they would be affordle for Small Businesses, nonprofits throughout the country, and i would be delivered through the Agency Network that is currtly out there and highly regulated by the states. People would be able to buy and purchase either up to 80 of their lost revenue for up to 90 days, and i tnk that it would be thank you. March [inaudible] one of the First Companies that advocated for the plan [inaudible] first how would you despond to what was just said and second, can you explain why if the right incentives are created, Insurance Companies wont be able to have that mitigating risk. Thank yo thank you very much for the questions. I recognize its complex and its a unique risk. We talked about the lack of diversification with it but we have many clients just like this who are suffering and are under great distress at the moment and it is hard to tackle at the moment which is why we are here. I fundamentally believe in the social benefits of insurance. We will be able to if we structure the program and the right way invest in the new technologies and better collect and manage the data and build models and new ways of working. Im right now sitting in my office in new york city in midtown manhattan. My experience coming to work today was different than my experience was on march 12, so we need to begin to take those steps to harden the infrastructure and bend the risk curve for the next pandemic. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I wl yield back. Thank you so much. And now i recognize the gentleman from florida for five minutes. Thank you very much mr. Chair thank you very much for holding this hearing today. I appreciate the well intended efforts of the sponsor to help Small Businesses. I am afraid those discussing another government program, without subsidies. To ensure business losses and do so in ways that cannot cover the payouts for such losses. From a social policy point of view is there any subsidization for businesses directly due to a pandemic but not to do so for interruptions in a financial crisis like we had in 2008 . It is a difficult distinction to make. In both cases there is a role for government. Whether there is a need to create an Insurance Program and whether an Insurance Program is the best way to spend 250 billion, as i mentioned earlier, only a minority have this as a direction. If you dont have a Business Interruption policy and if you do not own your property you will not have a Business Interruption policy then you would not possibly benefit. Directly aiding businesses. And this pandemic first, we cant geto the point flaws in the proposal modeled after the terrorism Risk Insurance program. I voted for longerm reauthorization to build a Critical Role in the terrorism insurae market. In this case there is no existing market, for the creation of tria a it is obvious to me we cant force something that is uninsurable like a pandemic into a terrorism model. That can lead to visit participation. Can you elaborate on that point a little bit. That is to the point we would make, trying to force the coverage onto companies or if you make it voluntary, not a great takeup among Insurance Companies and it would be unaffordable. And it would become more expensive. Back to mister lehman. You had various models dling with risk in this country. For example the national Flood Insurance program, anthe range of programs under disaster reliefunds like floods, hurricanes and eartuakes, the government is in this case in sure of last resort rather than creating a Insurance Program that is associated with more hazar with cost sharing. Would that be just as eective as subsidized Insurance Program implying greer control for fema programs addressing the current pandemic. The pandemic is more like a public catastrophe than it is an economic assistance program. And a way to respond, and this piece of it. And there is an agency, the insurance, fiscally sound helps the firm that. The gentlemans time has expired. A large list of members have to ask you to not ask that question. I am sorry. Will you yield back. At this time we will go to the gentleman from missouri. You are recognized for five minutes. Tnk you, it is extremely important we deal with this issue. What i want to focus on, derstand the varying Program Proposal that have been offered involve potential risks, depending on the size o policy. And and and and the broad tolerance of it, under various adverse conditions. And other independent bodies to be evaluating this question and if so, when can we expect some data . Are we blowing in the wind right now . Congressman. I am not aware of that but the bio is in transition and we will see, i do think it would be wise to direct bio to examine availability coverage for Business Interruption and other coverages. Business interruption is not the only coverage hit by the pandemic. Workers comp. Liability claims and things that need to be looked at as well. We are dealing with an extremely Important Program and as far as i know we are dealing with it, without data. There is something to call from other witnesses. Please speak to it. We are designing the program. We are looking to create a program that insurers get into the game, the program from a Small Business standpoint limiting exposure by the market share. In the insurers portion available to Small Businesses. On june 20 second i sent a letter to the federal Insurance Office asking them about coordination with the industry and stakeholders to providing an assessment of pandemic insurance landscape to address possible shortcomings. The United States congress it is an important issue and we need to have data that everyone is dealing with. To understand its parameters. Right now, it is a big deal but if we have to vote on something today we would be voting in ignorance. We have no data, as significant as it is that we would wade into the water with an organized system of presenting data. You are absolutely right, congressman. Any other witnesses. What does the silence mean . We would support you getting that information. Trying to gather some data that we can to review that. Im sure your wife is not there. Thank you. We will now go to the gentleman from new york for five minutes. Thank you to the witnesses for being here. I represent new yorks first Congressional District which is one of the areas first and hardest hit by covid19. Long islanders are tough and find ways to adapt to the pandemic but many businesses in my district are facing difficult decisions, restaurants, gins and other Small Businesses, facing creased restrictions on how and when they could operate. Coming together not as republicans or democrats, the cares act that enacted the paycheck Protection Program with needed liquidity for Small Businesses. It is final Congress Comes together again and passes another round of ppp funding to help businesses, for restrictions. To have liquidity measures, with any potential future pandemics. Representative maloney, with tria, started an important conversation about how to be more proactive. I want to dig deeper into whether an Insurance Program makes the most sense or any potential solutions, for Small Businesses. One thing we learned from this crisis is the importance of getting Small Businesses forced to shut down through no fault of their own. The difficulties of using Business Interruption insurance product and the claims process during a pandemic. Using a claimsbased process, specialized adjusters analyzing these claims, a form of Forensic Accounting to evaluate claims and even doing that is efficiently as possible is going to be not as timely as in a situation like a pandemic. That will add to the premiums. Is there a more efficient way to provide liquidity to businesses for interruption insurance. That bcp would be a way with the barometric trigger to get funds for policyholders in that regard. Business interruption insurance, to be triggered by principal damage to property, specialized Insurance Products like production insurance and cancellation insurance that were critical for financing Film Productions and live events. The goal for the federal government to play to help these markets regain Insurance Markets coverage . Thank you. The proposal we put forth to address mainstream america, with all the forces to expand that. After 9 11 construction halted in new york city because lenders do not want to extend credit without the terrorist attack, congress correctly responded with tria to make sure lending financing, and many nations lenders provided forbearance to help businesses who do not have the cash flow to meet scheduled debt payments but this was unsustainable in the long term and a proactive solution would be preferable. Whether insurance product is the best method to you foresee Market Forces leading to an increase in Proactive Solutions to provide liquidity to Small Businesses during pandemic so these loans are safer and sounder . I am a bit skeptical. The Insurance Market. They introduced exclusions that werent there before. What we are facing here, no business, very few businesses, before covid19 they have been providing that. I dont imagine lenders will ask for an insurance product that does not exist and they are not going to foreclose, there is no market. We yield back. Thank y. I want to recognize the chairwoman of the diverse city subcommittee, the chairwoman from ohio, miss beatty. Are you there . Not, i will come back to miss beatty and recognize the gentleman from texas a the subcommittee chair mister our green. Thank you very much. I think the Ranking Member and chairman of the fool committee. Your testimony was quite moving. And one phrase you use, you indicated you were experiencing the darkest days of your life and a lot of concern because if i multiply this by many persons in similar situations, a lot of hurt and a lot of pain obviously. For me as i refuse this with individual businesses, and under 100 employees during the pandemic, as much as 431 billion per month. It says to me this is about Small Businesses today. I would like to see a better solution if at all possible. The economy impacts everybody, not just individual businesses. I am willing to work across the aisle to accomplish such a solution. I want to ask about something related to policies in general. Are you under the opinion you had coverage for a pandemic at the time you were experiencing this. Thank you for your question. It is available in all situations. There are many things Insurance Companies, that was one of them. I absolutely thought i was covered. On my colleagues, those dark times are still in them. How to pay employees are payroll protection and insurance as well and many of us talk how we have been paying in 4 years, something at wasnt going to help us now. That is the concern, your testimony sparked interest and ive sken to staff members, how it has impacted, would it haveeen beneficial to you to have a notice of closure that was clear and concise . Do you think it may have been difficult for you, it would have beesomething you had an expectation otherwise for, that you had coverage that you didnt have, that you wouldnt have that expectation,o would this closure have helped to some extent or you needed to looklsewhere for some insurance or coverage. Was closure helpful to you . I certainly, whether it is my lease or my insurance, so many things the pandemic opened up about what i need to ask for Going Forward and hoping the government helps in some way with this. I wouldnt have known to ask for it but certainly would have. I think there was so much uncertainty, there is still so much uncertainty and he about that things would be time is limited. Forgive me but what im trng to get at is would it be neficial for me to work with some sort of disclosure, to find out what u dont have wh you are purchasing and that is beneficial. And others. I think disclosure would be great. Dont know how many Business People are reading every timeline to know what is covered. When i talk to my Insurance Company and he is sayinthis will cover you. My time is up. Thank you so much. I would like to go to the gentleman from christophe, you are recognized for five minutes. Thank you for convening todays hearing. I want to thank the witnesses for appearing virtually today. If i could, if you are still on, i would echo what congressman green said about your testimony, i find it compelling, everybody listens to it found it compelling and we all have constituents in our districts, we heard the same or similar stories. Following up on what congressman green was asking you. The Business Continuity Protection Program was in existence. You had to litigate your claim and what affects your business. If i took legal action against my Insurance Company . If the coverage did in fact exist and you had to litigate what would be the effect to your business . I dont have the resources to take on an Insurance Company. I havent talked to Insurance Companies and spends time, he made a point about good faith, if we dont work things out with the Insurance Companies my coverage i never occurred to my mitigation, thats not in my mindset and i didnt think david or goliath, it was working that way. You dont have to litigate, it took six months to get your claim to your business. I felt that way with the ppp, that is something that could be helpful and supportive. Cant speak for others, that would be helpful. If you knew it would take 12 months for your claim to be paid it would have a detrimental effect on your business. A devastatingime when your rent was really high and Health Insurance. You would need that claim to be paid in a quick manner to be helpful to your business. Absolutely. If i could to you, the way it is drafted now, is the any prohibition if it did exist to receive a payment to have a claim paid or in the relatively shortterm future . That wouldnt bunusual. You cant have the insurance contract, could specificly insuring payroll. Thatepends on the contract between insurer and inred, the government is not involved in that process. That would limit them from happening. The way it is drafted now, claim was paid and employees were laid off, what would be the effect to the economy . Generally speaking, these relationships between employers and employee relationships between businesses and customers, the goal of ppp was to put these businesses into an induced coma, we tackle the virus and bring them back and hope Everything Else in many cases come back to normal, the way it was structured, it is not structured the same way. If priya were created, and talk about what the challenges would be establishing, with a federal Program Designed to affect the pandemic related losses. Pandemic losses, tria has the certification from treasury. Public health is a local matter for the most part determining businesses that across jurisdictions in the Public Health zone. That takes quite a bit of work. You i have 19 seconds left at yield back my time. Thank you very much. Now go to the gentlewoman who is chair of the Oversight Committee as well as the person who drafted this issue to the subcommittees attention, my friend Carolyn Maloney for five minutes. Thank you so much, t me express how much ive enjoyed working with you and h bad i am that you might not be returning, thank you for your decades of work. And i think the raing member and all panelists who are here today. The ce of rceau who incidentally was the only company that could insure new york, along with lloyds of london during that time, pandemics are unique, the econom effects of pandemic cane devastating, a broad consensus has emerged supporting by search from your company, proposals like chuck, endemic risk is insurable with appropriate federal backstop. I want to thank marsh for all the research that you provided in his issue, and hope you make it available to all of us and can you explain why any federal program must include a federal backstop and if you could talk about insuring pandemic risk. A number have said they believe pandemic risk is totally not insurable. Your comments on that. Look forward to hearing your comments. My connection was poor before so i didnt hear a few of the prior questions from the committee so apologies but i could hear you clearly. Thank you for your leadership. Pandemics are global by nature, they lack diversification. Unlike other risks diversification is a fundamental part of insurance of the economic consequences are too severe and me on the risk bearing capacity of insurers to ultimately there. Many insurers have come forward and had very constructive dialogues. Miss mclaughlin on the panel today is an important voice and many believe the industry has a big role to play. With all due respect, shutting down businesses or putting businesses in a coma is not ideal. We are to be looking to ultimately change the outcome of the next pandemic. I got to tell you, can u hear me . I cannot hear anythi now. We can hear you. All right. I wasnt able to hear his response. I will ask to get that response in writing. I knowy time is almost up. I want to ask miss mclaughlin, my bill would require insuranc to share the risks of the fedel government. The ceo lieves the industry, he does have wherithal to take risk. It was a mistake but could not sure this risk at all. Other leaders have come out and saidhey support it. It is possible and necessary for any federal program. Thank you for your leadership on this as well. Chubb feels it is important to participate in the solution by playing a risky ring role because of the industrys knowledge and experience to drive better behave years. We feel the Industry Needs to have skin in the game. Our involvement in a partnership and Publicprivate Partnership with the federal government would lead to a better understanding of pandemic risks and incentivize improved mystic Risk Mitigation and preparedness. This provides an opportunity for increased risk sharing over time as direct and secondary markets develop, reducing the governments financial burden in the future. Thank you for your work on Small Business. How did pandemic Risk Insurance improve your businesss ability to survive a pandemic. Every other store that i see out right w, me and so many others would have so much hope anfinancial stability for the future. Thank you, thank you. Small business across the country closed their doors forever, and finding the American Society veteran supported by bill, have canceled their annual event. Their funding without any event cancellation. It is inclement in my bill to cover related losses. Emphasizing that, this is just a marker and a proposal, a draft to be proved upon. You work o a draft and go through the hearing of a point of reference to build on. I am open to all suggestions. Ou are very welcome. We thank you for that perspective. I appreciate hearing that. The gentleman from tennessee, mister ros you are recognized for five minutes. Mister rose. Mister rose. Trying to get this on. I tell you what. We will come back to mister rose. Are you there . My mike is an muted now. There is still some difficulty. I tell you what. We have to come back to you and i will go to mister south of wisconsin and then come back. Can you hear me . Yes. Now we can hear you, mister rose. Go ahead. I was an muted but it must not have taken. Thank you. Ranking member, thank you for holding this important hearing. We can finally discuss this important issue here today. The covid19 pandemic has devastated businesses nationwide, the government mandated shutdown led to massive furloughs, layoffs and closures, programs like the paycheck Protection Program made it so businesses across the country including my home state to keep their doors open and their employees on the payroll. This program was critical because the financial losses are businesses faced were not covered by insurance. As we begin to consider legislation to combat this issue, i believe any legislation this Committee Approves must have a bipartisan consensus that should include input from all stakeholders and require voluntary participation. Legislation attached to this hearing failed to pass that test but i did appreciate the chairman and the bills sponsor for recognizing this bill as a starting point and willing to work across the aisle for a solution. There are many alternative solutions that have advantages and disadvantages and are worthy of consideration as we seek bipartisan consensus. I look forward to furthering that discussion. The pandemic insurance ask would require participating insurers to offer pandemic risk coverage as part of their Business Interruption policy. Whether the mechanics of priya would even work this structure could lead to incredibly high cost of coverage. Mister lehman, what would happen if insurers largely declined to participate in the program . It does require insurers to make the offer but they have the option to participate in the program. I dont imagine many traditional casualty insurers, the administrative costs would be pretty large. Not much a own capital would be contributed, only 5 or 10 but the 750 billion is exhausted, looking for money over that. It is unclear how that would work out. It would largely be of interest to operators like captives, largely serve individual policyholders and large companies, that is what we see in treo as well, uimately close the gap in. Made coverage on avoidable. Given the cost of administering it. Even without the insurers, difficult to know what this would look like. You expect businesses, Indoor Dining whether it is persontoperson interaction would have more expensive coverage and would not opt to buy it. If you are a Small Business you would as you did before the Pandemic Take a risk that is not going to happen in 100 ars. You would point out the general difficultyf using insurance for spreading risk in a pandemic event several prosals being discussed in the hearing today include priya following the insurance model. Explain why the insurance model would not be an efficient or effective way . As i mentioned Business Interruption, most businesses would not be affected by that. The other side is a lot of this is not an Insurance Claim. Most of the lockdowns were lifted in september, they thought business was normal. It obviously wasnt. It wasnt a shutdown, it was the pandemic. There is no recognizable Insurance Claim for businesses act. Reporter my time is expired. This hearing is an important first step, i look forward to working with mcolleagues at this time, the gentlewoman from ohio, you are still on. Apparently she is not there so we will now recognize the gentleman from Washington State for five minutes. I will not take that much time. To thank t panelists, ofoundlynteresting and important conversation focused on prospect of approaches to deal with what we are experiencing right now but does serve as an oprtunity to severity and circumstances we are in. American families and businesses a hurting on an unprecedented scale. The fact is what weve done, unemployment extension, business have eaten, they are on the brink of whole scaled bankrucies and it is incumbent on this congress to act and figure out a way as we head into the peak of this frightening spite and spread of covid19. Weve got to find a way on a deck of personal privilege to exprs to you how much we appreciate serving wh you. I wish you, cannot exaggerate the collaboration we experienced ov eight years especially of weight on housing issues and frankly your friendship. In wisconsin, a couple specific questions. Something we didnt hit in this discussion, Insurance Markets regulated at the state level, state insurance regulators are required and rely on them and insurance policies are solvent. And think back towards sars as pandemics come online. We have 50 states. And and maintain solvency. The exclusion, promulgated by standards for a lot of policy language all 50 state regulators reached the same conclusions of your knowledge of that. And what would be the demand for this. A lot of conversations, we have 9 11, low covenants coming online demanding terrorism risk coverage, free market is not provided that, to address a real market demand. To your knowledge is there a market demand by bank loan covenants, relating to providing this pandemic coverage. Anecdotal chatter is what lenders e looking at. It is a common requirement that seems very uikely to require something that doesnt exist. In a sense they did in treo with southern markets drumming up if you will for lack of a better phrase following 9 11, catastrophic loss, congress was called to ask, hiccup for lack of a better phrase as related to providing liquidity in particular, the real estate industry, to your knowledge, that plays out in the financial side to pandemic insurance. Not as yet. One thing that is difrent, treo following 9 11, existing terrorism insurance disappeared. We dont havpandemic coverage bere covid19 and dont have it now. Sars was carved out specifically in manyf these programs. The trgering event that would be required wouldhift in many ways from traditional insurance covera, being an actionable occurrence of an ent to a triggering event requiring possibly an act congress and State Government and seems that would set up a potential moral hazard or political hazard but you can envision the pressure that would be placed on the decisionmak in a political enronment versus a tornado catastrophically shutting it down. It occurred. Whether it was a tornado that came through. This would be a triggering event. Can you comment, other instances you can think of where a government actor, political actor control the triggering event and how that played out as relates to potential hazard. The only real comparison is tria, where the treasury secretary has to trigger us terrorist of attack but we havent had one. We never had a terrorist event certified by the treasury secretary. With various proposals, they all consider different stakeholders making those decisions and obviously that can be complicated and a public official will have pressure. From a comparison standpoint, pretty knowledgeable about how the trigger would work. You dont see other instances, free market ivate insurance is triggered by political acti rather than an event occurring. Usually events are defined. I yield back. To the gentleman from florida Mister Larson and hopefully Mister Larson, you can turn your camera on. Can you hear me i can see you. Five minutes. Thank you for this hearing. It affects people and businesses all over the country. My question, there has been over 700 losses against an Insurance Company that denied coverage, the loss is the same as the result of covid19 pandemic. And sure enough, every claim across the country by taking the position covid19 does not constitute a direct physical loss, direct physical loss or damage. It is covered because of this virus, all to the tangible propagated fire damage or any other damage can you please share from a policy perspective about this issue but this is a pretty interesting issue. I need to know what they think about this. Are you asking about the litigation part of it . The litigation part of it, the reason is because in the Health Insurance area, everybody has a preexisting condition based on a virus and so forth. There is so much litigation involved, people filing insurance i uerstand and as i mentioned earlier, i didnt fileny legal action but we havent sustained any operty damage but were shut down by the government orders, how we were able to function a make any money at all so may be the language, this is what we were talking about, the language is there to support small busine. I didnt take any legal action but i see others have. If anyone else on the panel would like to respond . I cat hear it here. I have another one. Looking at this, charges for federal tax cuts, what private insurers face, do you believe some type of progra may b necessary iinsurance will be widely available to us businesses for the whole county . The entire panel agrees the private market alone will not cover the Global Pandemic and that is one thing we all agree with. It is too correlated a risk. You are not going to have just a private solution. That there is a Government Role i dont think anyone anyone else catch it . We have been working on behalf of 10,000 policyholders. It is excluded. Which is why we are here. We need a program that covers this risk Going Forward. A quick and simple treasure to get liquidity into the system and controls business is alive and need to create the right incentives. Shedding a business down, we are to set our sights higher than that. The gentleman from floridas time has expired, the line of questioning. The gentleman from texas, you are recognized for five minutes. I want to say how much of an honor it is to work with you during my first term in congress, appreciate the time we had together. I would like to insert bipartisan bill hr 7671, along with a list of supporters letters, the legislation will complement the cares act paycheck Protection Program by simplifying the application process, provide continued businesses, in underserved areas, how to address future pandemics and witnesses on the panel, representing the National Retail federation, common legislation. You want that as part of the hearing record. Is that correct . Without objection, so honored. I wanted to ask your comment, perhaps being overlooked by some, the basic principle that it is designed to be covering the losses of the few paid for by the many and in this case a Global Pandemic or a National Pandemic is a major loss of everyone paid for by everyone. I would like you to touch on that but also to comment on this idea of a mandate for insurers. Some of you suggested it might solve the issue we were talking about to mandate that insurers offer this coverage but would that work and what are the unintended consequences to the market as well . The written statement, half the Global Economy shutdown, the Insurance Industry alone cannot carry the other half on its back but there wont be a scenario where that is possible. That is why an event of this size, correlation is not impossible on its own. On the question of a mandate the concern if it is included in every policy, miss cantrell doesnt have to know. It is just automatic for that. The question, if you add the cost, with the business go by this interruption, 2 thirds of businesses dont, that is an open question. If you think of a Business Interruption, you are not necessarily getting the outcome you want. Mister doyle, i heard from brokers that the availability of pdemic related insurance has disappeared and se indicated to me congress should wait until after the crisis is over before contemplating a program to address future occurrences. In the case of tria the incides were catastrophic and only affected certain areas, but a 1timencident the very next day we we talking about what do we do because the attackad happened. In this case the pandemic is still ongog, we are potentially not even to the worst of it. Any thoughts whetherongress should wait until this is completed beforee talk about a longterm solution . Thank you, congressman. The market for a panmic is limited prior to covid19 and more limited today and clients facing these risks, but as i mentioned earlier in my prepared remarks it is fundamental and critical for the economic recovery that we act and act quickly. We should be thoughtful, what congresswoman maloney has put forth, terrific starting place for a conversation but we cant wait, we have to move soon. I yield back. I think the gentleman. At this point we go to the gentlewoman from california who is the chairwoman of the full committee, you are recognized for five minutes. Thank you very much, mister chairman. I would like to request a point of personal privilege. Please proceed. Have the opportunity to speak with you at this committee and financial services. I would like to say that we were with the issues of this committee. Housing and the most successes. And many hello . Set forward. But then that your cousin. And we respect to you. And we respect to you. Thank you medicare. Thank you medicare madam chair. Thank you. Now that they know what the world dedication. [laughter] now i will turn to the question for ms. Mclaughlin . With the trade groups that have argued pandemics cannot be ensured again. To help businesses with the federal government but not everybody agrees. And then spiking that is over 1 trillion each month. So what do you think . I think the federal government should be entirely on the hook the Insurance Industry should play a role as well. And then to have some guardrails and thats what the program has presented a finite exposure for the Insurance Industry and as we learn about this over time we think that exposure and when it will grow. Thank you for your explanation and your concern and to explain the role that each play. Ms. Cantrell. What will those expenses that you might have expected trade policy to cover . First of all rent has been high and they will cost, Health Insurance and in the retail cycle. So you able to identify how Government Insurance c play a role in that would accomplish tha. Im not that familiar with the child proposal. Oes the government py a role or should it . Aolutely should not be left with covid19 or pandec . It should be shared yes. Thank you very much mr. Chairman i yield back the balance of my time. And. And appreciative of your service in the committee as a whole also allhe bad ideas we are throwing around to put a na in the coffin of the absolute worst idethat has ever been broug forth into layout claims for which they did not collect premiums retroaively. With the tens of thousands of contras across this country with contract law that has underpinned the free market economy 240 yrs it is a violation of those basic prinples and every state regulator approved the exclusion of pandemic insurance as a part of Business Interruption insurance. And that has been lostn the conversation. We are using the asked were using the word entrance a lot inhis hearing but really zooming out i continue to hear from industry come fromxpert and se academicshat this is truly an uninrable risk for the industry. Can you elaborate on why this is an uninsurable risk, briefly . Certainly, congressman. Thank you f the question. The very nature of the pandemic, the fact its occurring all at the same time forens of millions of businesses allt the same time all over the country, its n something we can spread theisk around. Its something that you use the many to pay for the claims of the few, and this would be anyone attempting t try to pay everything at once. Speak to hear other members with the Publicprivate Partnership what they mean that they would cost and then updates to do some premiums with those contemporary losses that would occur and then to say this would include economic stability and to lower the premiums dramatically not the real underlying risk or by the government. Because the government itself is stable if it was iurable the cost would be very very gh. That is absolutely correct. And the way to have the product me much more affordable to be bought by Small Businesses in the way people that buy into it but then the more concurrent losses y have seen need a government Balance Sheet to step in. If it is very good you have a good problem getting paid out but those that what continues to be a concern. The cond thing is that the notion that is the future congresses would say to american businessethat you paid into this program but the buness next door that is suffering mildly will not be paid out. Ive only been in congress f years but i bore witness to the inclination e future congresses to pay everybody and to help spur the economy and then nobody will b that insurance the next round because the enable recognize everybody got the same payment if they paid in or not so this hearing is a lot of bad ias that are not actually either and i will your back. To recognize a friend from iowa for five minutes you are recognize. Spirithank you chairman is so good to see you. I am grateful to be here hang this hearing on an important topic right now. We all know oucountry has been incredibly hard by this pandemi pandemic. You are echoing. Try it again. You are still echoing. To mr. Gonzalez from ohio you are recognized for five minutes. Thank you mr. Chairman and to everybody for participating in this hearing a lot of thought because i know they tried to solve and having said that i want to associate myself with mr. Hollingsworth remarks it seems awfully premature and i have heard am curious does anybody believe this is an insurable risk . There are risks that are insurable is not possible for the industry at the macro level to find the entire pandemic. But you can have a policy with the cap but is not not nearly enough. Precisely. And then to do this as you can possibly do. And it is very premature to think that right now we could stay here with that Workable Program against future pandemics. And what we probably should do is navigator way through the review through all the programs we put in place. And with the future pandemics i appreciate all we have done because we all try our best. Thank you for the hearing now go back to the gentleman from iowa. Are you there . She is not there. Mr. Timmons you are recognized for five minutes. Thank you mr. Chairman and for your Great Service and then find ourselves in the midst of a disaster. And then for us to be the voice in this critical decision. I feel the intense pain and those for customers those that are unwilling for the ways we are accustomed to shopping than this is not the Business Owners fall. I have heard today any longterm solution must work for all parts of the economy and help those that are forced and as proposed to address the problems so many Small Business owners are facing. We do believe it is a better model back into the insurance a model for handling those claims and the amount of time that it would take to actually adjust the claims versus the bcp p which could get money directly into the hands of the needed Small Businesses. We will be leaving this program to take you live to the u. S. Senate for a brief pro forma session this morning for its part of cspans longterm commitment to bring you live gavel to gav coverage of congress. The presiding officer the senate will come to order. The clerk will read a communication to the senate. The clerk washington, d. , november 20, 2020. To the senate under the paragraph 3, of the standing rules of the senate, i hereby appoint the honorable josh hawy, a senator from the state of missouri, of the chair. E duties signed chuck assley, president pro tempore. The presiding officer under the previous order, the Senate Stands adjourned until 12 15 p. M. On tuesday, until 12 15 p. M. On tuesday, the u. S. Senate traveling out. They are holding brief pro forma sessions over the thanksgiving day break. They will be sacrilegious and work on monday november 30. Follow live in the temperature of cspan2. And we will take you back to the hearing on Insurance Coverage during the pandemic. Made solid points, cheering the risk posed by potential terrorist attacks versus the risk posed by Global Pandemic. They just couldnt be more different. Their attacks even the worst and most of stating ones are typically confined to relatively small geographic areas and they have very clear beginning and end. And the next come on the other hand, by definition are occurring everywhere at once for an unknown amount of time. To think we can copy paste anda plan from insuring against terrorism and against pandemics, it just doesnt work. Furthermore, i believe that the time to plan for the next one, how could you pandemic is not in the middle of the current one. Small businesses are suffering due to government closures. Nothing were discussing today will help ms. Cantrell or any of the other businesses in a district that are facing the prospects of closing right now. The cares act was a helpful but it was over seven months ago. I believe when you do get done quickly and i look for it to working with my colleagues to get through this pandemic and then finding good policybased solution that will allow us to prepare for the next one. With that, i yield the bounds of my time. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Timmons. Let me say it get any relationship with your to make your senators, i wish you would talk to them about getting back to getting with the Speaker Pelosi as well as with treasury secretary mnuchin, and that would help us address the issues that you raise. Mr. Chairman, i have been pushing that as hard as i can but at the end of the day we need to have people that are being adversely affected by covid, not bailout dates insolvent pension funds. We can find a way forward im sure. A we as a congress have to believe we want to help the American People during this Global Pandemic. Let me go on and lets try ms. Axne one more time. You are recognizedor five minutes, ms. Axne. How does this sound, chairman . Much better. It sounds like you. Perfect. Thank you so much for putting up with my technical difficulties. I never thought i would be saying that in the middle of the hearing, but here we go. Thank you so much, chairman, for holding this and for having me here. This is an incredibly important topic of course for Small Businesses across the country who have been hit so hard with this pandemic. We could be looking at 4050 of our restaurants closing in the next six months and thats just one example with covid uncontrollably getting worse across this country. So the starting point for what were discussing here today is businesses in my district and around the country found out in march even if they were in the 3040 of companies that at Business Interruption insurance, and likely didnt cover pandemics. Mr. Doyle, none of the proposals we are discussing today would be retroactive and cover covid19 losses, is that correct . That is correct, congresswoman. Thank you. I know estimate for the loss of more than 400 billion per month for just the smallest businesses. Ms. Mclaughlin or mr. Kuhlmann, i wonder how much it losses g think we might be talking about ensuring . To have it updated estimate for the losses so far this year . I dont have an estimate of the losses for this year. Okay,kay. Mr. Kuhlmann, do you . Know, i get. All right. For a o the witnesses if this wereust to be covered overall, do you have a sense of what kind of premiums then we wld be talking about relative to current insurance . Congresswoman, what i am suggesting is that we develop a prram that encourages participatn, need to in some ways be subsidized by the governnt and the u. S. Governments Balance Sheet i would make t case the governmentltimately is holding the risk today. Whats missing today from whether its the cares act or the bcpp are the social benefits of insurance, and we can mitigate the future impact of pandemics on our economy if the private market, the government and our policyholders come gether. I very much appreciate that but i have to be honest. Its hard for me to evaluate proposals to cover future pandemics were no windows what those premiums might be. Thats a support piece of what this looks like. Mr. Doyle and mr. Kuhlmann, do you have any sense of what percentage businesses might want pandemic coverage either with or without a federal subsidy . If you are including a federal subsidy in that how much do you estimate that subsidy to be . Its hard to say what the ultimate takeup rate would be. Of course it would depend upon how we structure and ultimate price the program. But a government subsidy would be required, and we need to figure out the modeling and data behind that. Okay. So no clear understanding right now at this point on the kind of premiums and or the types of subsidies that would be necessary for that come is my understanding . It would depend upon the risk the government would be willing to backstop for the private market. Okay. This crisis unfortunately has shown us firsthand how many of our businesses cant even go weeks without some revenue coming in, and theres another issue that we have to address here which is how fast we can give relief to the businesses that need it and we saw that with the ppp this printer much a difference even if you ask can make in getting that into folks hands. I know firsthand the processing Insurance Claims isnt always the quickest process and thats without anyone making a a claim all at the same time. Under any of the concepts were considering how quickly would business be able to get the help they need during a pandemic . I would take an answer for each one of you or anyone of you on that. For me, congresswoman, a parametric trigger, if we could set the right trigger we could get that claim paid quickly, within weeks. Within weeks, you said . Yes. I think, congresswoman, bcpp with a parametric trigger it would be immediate. You would not have a traditional claims process where you have asked the adjuster do some accounting undetermined amount of the claim. I think under the bcpp it would be nearly needed. Congresswoman, under the chubb program as well were looking at a parametric structure for Small Businesses so we can get the funds in the hands of a Small Businesses as quickly as posble. Okay, okay. Thank you for that. Since this prosal are all forward working forwa look at what have a solution that works for the businesses that need it. Stly i just want to make sure we dont raise costs for businesses so much that insuranc could be unaffordable and push them out of business right now as were coming out of the pandemic. We also risk fightinghe last word on charging visit for something to believe in use. So thank you so much for your answers to give me some clarity, and mr. Chairman, i yield back. Thank you so much, ms. Axne. I understand the Ranking Member from ohio, mr. Stivers, wants to make a closing statement. I just wanted to appoint a personal privilege, mr. Chairman. Please, go ahead. I will be very brief. I think this hearing is another example of showing your leadership and what you have done to make Congress Better come to make america stronger and to serve your constituents, mr. Chairman. And i for one am very proud to have worked with you and i want to say good luck to you in your future, and that we will all miss you very deeply, and your expertise and hard work, your diligence and your caring nature, mr. Chairman. Thank you. Thank you for making our country that and to represent the best of us. Today is just another example of that for a great hearing today. Thanks for making a difference for america. God bless you, mr. Chairman. Thank you so much, mr. Stivers. Let me first say i would like to thank our witnesses for their testimony today. Without objection, all members will have five legislative days within which to submit additional written questions for the witnesses forwarded to the chair and this will be forwarded to the witnesses for their response. I ask asked our witnesses to pe respond as promptly as you are able. Without objection all members will have five legislative days within which to submit extraneous material to the chair for inclusion in the record. And i remind members to submit written questions and material for the record to the email address provided to your staff. Without objection i would like to submit a letter from Ranking Member stivers and i to President Trump for the record and also a letter to house leadership, both letters address pandemic Risk Insurance. And now in closing, this hearing has certainly raised interesting and intriguing issues on how to best protect businesses of all sizes during a Global Health pandemic. And i want to thank chairman maloney for bringing this issue to the forefront, and i am certain this will not be the last we hear of this issue, more than likely. This will be the last hearing that i chair of the subcommittee since i will be leaving the house at the end of the 116th congress. Let me say that it is been an honor and privilege to serve in this august body, and the distinction only experienced by some 11,000 americans throughout our nations history. As chair of waters mentioned chair waters mentioned, with our relatives, but to me, to all of the members of this committee and this congress, i look at you all like we are family and hold you in my heart as such. And i wish you all success in the 117th congress, and god bless you all. This hearing is adjourned. Thank you. Booktv and cspan2 has t nonfiction books and authors thatou weekend. Coming up this weekend saturday at 1 p. M. Eastern from the recent virtual brooklyn book festival. Watch booktv on cspan2 this weekend. The Washington Post talk with former National National y adviser to President Trump john bolton was asked about the Trump Administration decisions on iran, withdrawing troops from the middle east and number of other issues. Good afternoon. I am robert costa with the Washington Post,