Arizona, i am Deborah Peters and my cohost is the Pulitzer Prize winning and distinguished Foreign Correspondent and columnt for the Washington Post and i am happy to say my friend james hoagland. Good to be here. Im delightedou could join us. I offered this evening, our copies are somewhere, the ckiest the luckiest man life with john mccain. I can say truthfully that we were fascinated with i i didnt expect to read every word, once i started i couldnt put it down. Thank you. Senator mccain in 2005, i am blanking, you did 7 books. Character assassination. We sold thousands of copies of it and his office staff. We find is a little strange. After spending time with him. Before i turn this over to jim, the mccain familys mississippi group. I assumed he had western roots. Im a carpetbagger in arizona and illinois. I didnt recognize john mccain how he was perceived as a carpetbagger. I asked john grisham, in mississippi, i read a little bit and i will read it again to get her reaction, the attitude of his, john mccains southern forebears and earlier generations who distinguish themselves in war offer parallels to quality in his own personality. No doubt those qualities derived in part from the personalities of your father and grandfather, in the position of the mississippi mccain. His high spiritedness, enthusiasm and craving current adventure are an inheritance from mccains mothers. And wrote about john mccain, when mccains uncle and grandfather left mississippi. What could they do around farms in small towns in an impoverished area not yet heels from the civil war, the law, the church, nothing seems to challenge them. That was fascinating and also were surprised a mississippian, thank you for that insight. Thank you for doing this. Thank you for a fascinating and compling book, i congratulate you on that and i will start by telling the story the first time i ever met john mccain and hoi learned a lot about him through that experience. We were both guests on the face of the nation shownd john mcca was coming out and i was going on and there was a pause here, a break, john mccain walked uto me and said i have been reading the stuff y have been writing about this bozo clinton and i dont like it, had a discussion, i respectfully disagree d went on with the show. Next today, the phone ngs, it is john mccain. He proceedto apologize to me, had quite an irish temper, my mothers main name was sullivan, so im familiar with. I was just impressed with the humili with which he did that and the genuine naturef that. You learned a lot about his temper as well. We got locked into a terrific argument and he said to you finally, we have botbeen hotheads the two of us, one of us should calm down. Lk a little bit aut how it manifested itself and how yo lived with it or didnt live with it. Came out of nowhereuddenly and moved on to sunnier skies but very rary directed downward. He could argue in a heat way with anybody, the staff had great life, and argue right back. I felt he lost control of himself so became discourteous and persal, something he always regretted, and that was kind of exagrated. It wasnt that big a problem, just had one. It would come up quickly, could be an intimidating thing to behold and this line, a fight not joined is a fight not enjoyed. The best line anybody ever wrote about john mccains personality, his wonderful book,ightingale song, describing mccain a plea at the Naval Academy. And as a boxer, mccains style was to charge to the center of the ring, until somebody went down. It was an apt description of it. John mccain let his emotion and charter show more than any other politician. Discuss that in relaonship to his upbringing. As barbara has said, in plantation life, never aed that way as you point out in the book. He was brought up in military conflicts actually. And the influence on him. It wasnt just his father but higrandfather, the first father and son four st imals, his grandfathers brother was a west point graduate, Brigadier General in the army, there were mccains and mccain relatives, every professional. And he was imbued, a and and an amalgam that they inherited, the literature he had, and consumed fiction or nonfiction he had 2 or 3 books going at the same time, it is very important to him. And the Naval Academy. Graduated fifth in the bottom of this class, and the idea, and where his emotions on his sleeve, they would get quite emotional from time to time about it. And all those things contributed about it. In reference to the fact that his father, jack mccain was a binge drinker, how will that affect john mccain. He was very candid, very and guarded person, he revered his father and his father was gone all the time, with deployment and i once asked him the difference between your father and your grandfather was your grandfather loved the navy or lived for the navy. Give me an example how that was and all he said was at christmas my father would come down, we would open our presence and go back upstairs and put on his uniform and walked to his office and didnt offer a comment other than the observation. He allowed his father had a binge drinking problem he struggled with all his life, heroically struggled against, stay in the wagon and start all over again he would prey on his knees every night for strengths to overcome his habit and how did how did it affect your view of him, didnt recognize, a completely different person and didnt recognize him. I canelate to that. Talk about h mother who passed away at age 108, one of the more remarkable women. Never met anybody like her. One of the most memorable people you ever encountered. 108 was plenty, she was bold, curious, resilient, charming, well into her golden years, and identical twin sister that they were as tight as sisters can be, they were both widows, traveled constantly together, they were veteran travelers in their 90s, and drive to turkey. Rental Car Companies refused to release the car because they were too old and kept in frankfurt. In la where roberto was brought up. Roberto decided to drive from washington to la to spend christmas with her, got a call from arizona highway patrol, must have been pulled over doing 112 on the interstate, and for the purposes of my book he credited her with his curiosity, his resilience, and his mother really raised him and most transparently his mothers son and loved her very much and it warmed her heart the we were reunited. Talk a little bit how johns mother and father presented him with the option of the Naval Academy . He talked on the assumption he was going. Nobody asked if i wanted to go but he would talk about being a little kid. He would hide under the table, and his grandfather unfortunately died after he came home from the war. Talking about their war experiences, he would hide under the table and listen to the stories but here his parents introduce him all the time to their friends, this is johnny, hes going to the Naval Academy. He didnt like having free will or a say in e matter. To be a rebel and rebel against the academy. He rebelled. By being insubordinate. The Naval Academy, he got in trouble a lot, went over the wa like he would at the academy, the Old Neighborhood might be burlesque shows, but he had the good fortune of being men toward, worked off thdemerits by working in the yard with the englh master at episcopal. A guy o had been a tank command in pattons army in world war ii and jn revered him. A lot of great literature as his father and motr did as well. He revered him, he modeled, he modeled his code on william ravenels code of the honor code, the Naval Academye was described as a leader in his class, and any forof hievement at the academy, confidently in troub and nearly being booted out, just this side of the line he got in trouble. Enough extra duty on the weekends to pay off these demerits to walk to baltimore and life 17 times. That is a way of asserting himself. The great arc of his story, dit get subdued so much, 5 himself in the context of something larger than himself when he went to vietnam and i think solved that need in him to assert his independence and always remains mavericky, subsuming his own interest an larger purpose. Thehronology you follow in your book, away from johns military career to talk about his political career so lets talk about the political career but back to the military part. John mccains decision to run for congress in 1981, was led him to go into politics . The navys liaison to the United States senate, politicians were friends with parents but he worked in the senate, had an office in the Senate Office building, effectively the navy lobbyist to the Armed Services committee and numbers of the committee and as part of his duty would escort them when they took overseas trips and he became a protege of john power and Barry Goldwater and Scoop Jackson and some of the old bowls, National Security guys and became a kind of personal friends with the younger guys at the time and they were young in the 70s, gary hart, senator biden, he traveled with them and became friends with them and told me he would launch in amazement, and he would see Scoop Jackson or somebody motion and 8 over and on a piece of scrap paper, become an amendment to the defense bill, hundreds of millions of dollars sent from one account to another just like that and it dawned on me most of these guys had more powerful than a one or 2 star admiral would ever have which is the most he thought he could realistically aspire to so he retired from the navy and moved to arizona with an entry into politics in mind. Wanted to ask why you chose that structure, talk about politics instead of going straight into the dram the incredible story of jo mccain. And watortured and refused to accept an early release. Why did it shift to politics . It would show how that experience affected a politician if we got a little bit into the political story, they occur all the timand some early on. That experience, the main crucible when offered amnesty and refusingt, that is the task of yourife that taught him to trust his own judgment, and sense of honor. It humbled him and made him realize he wasnt strong enough, nobody is strong enoug to get through the challenges thout needing the help of others, told him to just his own judgment and a sense of honor which was provoked in early experience. And show how that afcts it. He was elected to the senate in 1986, the general staff in 1989 and you were with him for two runs for the presidency, 20002008. You make the point in all of the electoral campaigns particularly the president ial ones, ran on fos rather than a governing philosophy. Talk about that a little bit. How successful was that . He was conventionally a centerright guy, smaller, more effective government, strong defense, but when you look, when you ask for a scylla philosophical review, we are here to solve a problem, not to philosophize. I am serving my country here, a very practical humility about the role of congress, shouldnt expect to get 100 of your way but you can make modest progress in the problems of your time and that was an honorable thing to achieve. He looked at the american experiment as a sacred project, selfgovernment was the only moral government and all human beings are entitled to it, he thought that was a great, precious cause in the hands of people elected to represent americans in congress and the white house who do their work overseas. Things that sort of exacerbate the image of politicians is selfish and self interested and all that. Complicated that cause and hurt that cause. This government that we are here to serve this noble project, lets do it fairly and make the most progress we can on our problems and not put ourselves first all the time. He had a code of conduct and that was how he he operated in the political sphere. The instances in the 2008 campaign where he actually defended his opponent against attacks from his own supporters. That was john mccains finest moment. Impressive. I was fortunate enough to be at th event and he was booed by his own people or me of them. Most people gave him a good round of alause. That campaign convened two enormous mistakes you helped him make. Help m make. One w sarah palin, the other was cling for an economic summit, failing to put forward a convincing program. Talk about those two mistakes and how quickly both of you, john mccain, you realize they were mistake didnt leave any lasting effects . Not those two decisio, no. Earlier in 2007, i would not say strain our relationship but we can talk about that another time. To me or anybody else whether it is mistake, ft responsible for putting her on the ticket, a position she wasnt prepared for and she struggled under the strain of it a felt bad about it and never said a bad word abouher or he would say many times privately and publicly he wished he had done what he wanted to do which was make Joe Lieberman his running mate. That was a politically fraught desire that would have led to a messy convention and a lot of unhappy republicans. But he said that was my miste. He never phrased it putting her on the ticket but not putting joe eberman on the ticket. Those who dont know, senator lieberman was a democrat but now an independent who caucused with the democts. He was convinced to meet with sarah palin and was impressed in the meeting with her because she was pitched to him as a reformer republin like he was, a young freshfaced taking on the republican establishment, taking on the Oil Companies in alaska and got a settlement for alaska, quite an irovement over what they were getting and some dissatisfied Hillary Clinton voters were sore about the primaries in 2008 that might be attracted to a mccain ticket that had a woman on it. Those were the reasons, not that she could stir up the base or anything. On impressive retail skill thats i think the press god in the first couple days. Ive never seen anybodwork like she did or seen anybody be so charming one one to voters in her speech at the convention in which a teleprompt went out, she didnt miss a beat, the performance was almost reaganesque in terms of mmunication skill. The mistake was she contradicted what his message had been all along and the argument ainst the young, less experienced senator bark obama. I argued against it. I lost the argument but i will freely admit in the first week or so maybe i was wrong, shes que talented. And even a seasoned politician, and a dauntingxperience and not ny people can handle the pressure of that, relatively new to politics and never expose that tension before, was bound to crack under the strain of it. What about his decision in poker parlance to unfold his hand on the economic summit. What i argued for. They managed to come out of the convention with a 5 or 6 point lead on obama. They usually dissipate, in late september, very competitive in what was then a horrible environment for a publican candidate. President sh, bless him, not entirely his fault was very unpopular in the postkatrina thing, terrible numbers and it was sy to tag a republican nominee in george bush third term, the wrong track number, right track, long track, i dont think even now with covid19 is anywhere near that. A terrible environment but would point to obama when Lehman Brothers collapsed and we look at each other like at . What can we possibly do to salvage this situation. We were out of ideas at that point, like we would put Country First and put Country First, lets try to figure out hoto solve this. Temporarily freeze the campaign as soon as we got there and go over to meet with the leader of the republican majority leer, john bain are boehne we tied ourselves to house republicans, th said yes or no and that was a terrible mista and didnt give a damn what john mccain told them to do. We were suddenly involved in whatas sought by others in that particular juncture and a loss to figure out how to make the most of it, the notorious meeting the white house he asked for. Bush turns to him and says john and he says i want to hear was john boehner has to say. He wanted on idea whato ask bush for and the democrats for that he could deliver his caucus and that is why he acted that way in that meeting. It was a stupid blunder we should have seen coming. Dont want to say it was panic, when you strgle and kick your way to the 40 yard line, knocked back very late in the race you have to have a 1yard line, and putting it up and throwing a hail mary and that is what it was a it up in our face. You know. We realistically knew it was very unlikely he could win. How long did it take to recover . From defeat . I think he recovered. He just gets busy. He is a man of so ny enthusiasms. Loves the workloves the senate. He threw himself into every fight he could find, even issues he hadnt expressed inrest in before he would get involv in. On Election Night he was very stoic, gave a concession speec that would stand the test of time for graciousness and spirit of patriotismnd love of country, he turnedo his detail leader, and you guys haveeen great, really wonderful to get to know you youve been good to me and thank you very much. I would like you to give me a ride home and then i dont ever want to see you guys again. The next morning walking to a starcks to get his cappuccino in the morning. One of the things he threw himself into that you gaveome attention to is the security conference. He showed real leadership in forging and strengthening the Transatlantic Alliance and i happened to be standing beside him in 2007 when Vladimir Putin suddenly turned and gave a very aggressive, very nasty speech. What i could hear john mccain saying partly me but mostly to himself was you have to find ways to workith him. He was known as a hawk, but he tried to reach out and i would love to hear you describe what his accomplishments in foreignpolicy were. The big moments, the normalization and relations, washingtons first since of mccains statesman, he h every reason even if he didnt eject to normalization not to be involved, in prison he was tortured, and ameris best terests, in the geopolitical interests out ofur illinois and southeast asia, similar issues with the chinese. Before it took a lot of guff on the pow mia question. He was almost the architect,