Transcripts For CSPAN2 John 20240704

Democracy at work with citizens who are truly informed. A republic thrives. Get informed straight from the source on cspan. Unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. In the Nations Capital to wherever you are, it is the opinion that matters the most that is your own. This is what democracy looks like. Cspan powered by cable. Welcome to another at the university of utah, college of law presentation, we are pleased to have you with us this afternoon. I am robert keiter, director of the center for Land Resources and the environment here at the college of law. I should note that we are very pleased to be joined this afternoon not only with our esteemed speaker but cspan will be forming todays event and we are pleased to have them with us. The customary way that we start these events at the college of law is with native lands acknowledgment. We acknowledge that this land which was named a for the tribe, the ancestral homeland of the shoshone, by you tribes, the university of utah recognizes and respects the enduring relationship that exists between many Indigenous Peoples and their traditional homelands. We respect the sovereign relationship between tribes, states and the federal government. And the university of utahs commitment to a partnership with native nations and urban indian communities through research, education and Community Outreach activities. This will conclude our series for the fall semester. Beginning in the Spring Semester we will host a series of the noon events exploring utah water law. That lecture series which is sponsored by the Ottoman Society is a lead in in essence to our 20th annual symposium which will be on the future of the Great Salt Lake. I suspect everyone in the room knows that the Great Salt Lake has dried immensely. We all face a significant challenge, environmentally and economically as a result of that. The state is making moves to begin to address that. We hope the symposium offers Meaningful Solutions to the challenges presented by the drought and receding of the lake water levels. Todays green bag Event Features Professor John leshy, distinguished Professor Emeritus at the university of California Hastings College of law and former solicitor of the interior department throughout the Clinton Administration. He is wellversed in atopic he will be speaking on which is the subject of his recently published book by Yale University press entitled our Common Ground, our Common Ground a history of americas public lands. John leshy, in addition to his activity at the university of california, hastings, college of law served as counsel to the chair of the Natural Resources committee and house of representatives, he has been a law professor joining hastings faculty at Arizona State university. He served during the Carter Administration is associate solicitor of interior for energy and resources, served as attorney advocate for the Natural Resources Defense Council in california and as a litigator with the Us Department of justice civil rights division, quite a diverse career, exposed him to various levels and institutions within our government. He also served as leader of the Transition Team for the Clinton Gore Administration in 1992 and colead for the interior Transition Team for the Obama Biden Administration when it came into office in 2008. He has visited at Harvard Law School which is where he graduated and earned his bachelors degree, served numerous boards and commissions and authored a book on the mining law as well as casebooks on public land and Natural Resources law and water law. His talk obviously addresses the sweep of history, of americas public lands and with that very pleased to welcome to the Green Bag Program today, Professor John leshy, my friend and colleague. We look forward to your talk. [applause] thank you, bob. Bob is an expert with many publications in the area of public land. We worked together for a long time. At the university of utah i had the pleasure of speaking before. It is great to see snow on the mountains. I am happy to be here. My book is the First Comprehensive history of americas public lands, the four big agencies, park service, fish and Wildlife Service and bureau of Land Management. In a long time. You folks in utah know more about public lands generally speaking than most americans but still, when you tell people the United States owns 600 million acres of public land, plains, mountains, wetlands, seashores, deserts, they are surprised because the celebration of private property and distrust of government particularly the National Government, baked into our culture. People are surprised to learn that, the question, i had no idea how did that happen, i wrote this to answer the question how it happened. It didnt just happen. It came about because the political system, our political leaders primarily in washington made political decisions that resulted in what you see on this map. With the way they came to be made are the core of the book. The heart of the story i tell, begins late in the 19th century. That is when congress and other branches of government really become serious about holding and conserving significant amounts of land and National Ownership. That was after, usually long after the United States acquired title to these lands in the first place, from native americans and foreign governments. Acquisition for native americans began soon after columbus landed in the americas, long before, three centuries before the United States came to be. Once the Us Government was established in the late 18th century, it continued that process and vast areas from foreign governments like the louisiana purchase. Native nations usually lost their lands through a process that began with often brutal dispossession by an evolving cast of characters was speculators, minors and other developers, settlers often backed by the military force of the european invaders and their successor, the United States. Acquisition of native legal title followed. This was usually commerce by treaties and other arrangements while providing some compensation, could never fully make up for the injustices perpetrated by the and already of the loss. The process of disposition and acquisition come along and contemplated story, from the one i tell which begins generally after all of that acquisition had occurred. And get a sense of that, in 1890, just before this process of reserving and conserving federal lands began. As you can see, there was a lot, the white area our lands were acquisition of title had been settled. I will put it differently, the title to their ancestral land, not conservationists and other projection advocates, not to deny the prominent conservation advocates like most of the contemporaries regarded native americans and their cultures as inferior, nor what i argue federal agencies became part of public lands that consistently reset for native americans and cultures but the good news is progress is being made in this general area and i will tell you more about that later on in my talk. What i want to do is outline the major themes that emerge from my book especially as they relate to use and offer some reflections about what this might mean for the future. I will try to convince you that these major themes demolish common fictions that have grown up about these lands. The first and most notorious fiction is public lands have been a divisive force in american life. One of my favorite examples to the contrary, i offer many in the book, the socalled weaks act, most people never heard of it. It was a bill passed by congress in 1911, the first significant Environmental Restoration legislation in us history. What it did is established a program where the National Government would buy up land in the upper reaches of the eastern midwestern southern watershed most of which was logged over. To reduce erosion and help prevent destructive floods. This act going through congress, governors of the New England States joined forces in a panel to testify before congress. The governor of massachusetts noted in our testimony this was the first time in American History that governors from those reasons go before congress to, quote, ask for something, for the common welfare of the United States. Weeks after that, were responsible for most of those lands in the eastern half of the country. The Second Fiction i want to demolish is public lands tend to provide americans along partisan lines. We view issues of Public Policy as a red blue republican democrat but a dominant theme of public land is how republicans and democrats alike have long agreed on the importance not only of holding more and more land for us ownership but also protecting them. So all can have opportunities for lifechanging encounters and can learn from and be inspired by the cultural and scientific resources on these lands. My book provides many examples. Southern democrats, new england republicans. Some tend to be republicans, less favorable to protection of public lands. The gop surprised many heroes in this story. Another of my favorite examples. This fellow, a newspaper publisher, a republican politician, Dwight Eisenhower appointed him to be secretary of the interior in the 1950s. In that position he protected vast tracts of alaska public land. 11 million acres by putting them in National Wildlife refuges notably the arctic National Wildlife refuge on the northeast coast of alaska which was called americas serengeti. Most public lands were safeguarded through a land grab by the National Government carried out over state and local opposition. It is heard in the intermountain west. Grassroots advocacy and support was instrumental in establishing nearly all protected public land that we see today including those in utah. This is the case with this is a big surge of decisions, reserving public land that began in the 1890s. It began 1891, congress responding to requests from the west from their growing cities in particular to protect the uplands, the president sweeping power to reserve public land permanently in us ownership. President Grover Cleveland in 1897, a year after utah became a state, Grover Cleveland, a democrat, established the first forestry grid in utah, 900,000 acres. He did it with strong support of utahs first governor, a republican who graced the president s action by withdrawing state owned lands in the proposed from sailing settlement. Then between his ascension to the presidency went mckinley was assassinated, ran for election in the fall of 1904, Theodore Roosevelt tripled the amount of acreage in utah and did something similar in other states and did that and told congress he did it because he believed it was he told congress in 1904, the Forest Reserve policy can be successful only when it has the full support of the people of the west. The people who live in the neighborhood ultimately determine whether or not they are to be permanent. Those political instincts, and fall of 1904, care utah by 40 points. He covered other western states by at least 20 points in won the popular vote by 20 points. The second term, more than doubled the acreage of utah. Leading utah politicians were prominent roles and safeguarding public lands of National Ownership. In 1903 to 1933, primary sponsor of legislation that established civil and National Parks. The primary sponsor of legislation that in 1916 established the National Park service. What was on the cover of the law School Brochure hosts more visitors annually than any other National Park. Worthen yellowstone or yosemite. As a history professor, thomas alexander, who are taught more than half a century ago, the utah National Parks have, quote, the hearty approval of most utah funds. Another example, don colton utah congressman, also a republican, was a leading proponent of the legislation that paved the way for lands managed by the bureau of Land Management be safeguarded in National Ownership. Had he not lost his bid for reelection in the depths of the Great Depression in 1932, it would have been called the colton grazing act. Around the same time in the 1930s congress was expanding programs to purchase private land back into National Ownership. Primarily comfort conservation and Environmental Restoration. Most of the protected public lands, parks, forests in the eastern half of the country required for the consent of the state involved. In fact, south florida and texas, two iconic National Parks, everglades, they were acquired by the state themselves from private owners with state taxpayer funds, zoning to the National Government so they could be safeguarded as National Parks. Not a land grab. In public land, really the executive branch of the government has done most of this with congress on the sidelines. Facts are to the contrary. In the late 19th to the middle of the 20th Century Congress did give the executive pretty broad powers to hold, reserve, protect land, in 1911 there was the Antiquities Act of 1906 that some of you may have heard about that gave the president Broad Authority for select or scientific interest which is controlled by the United States and Call National monuments. Thats confusing term. The Reason Congress labeled them National Monuments is congress wanted to reserve for itself the label National Park. Only congress can make a National Park, gave the president the power and said we will call this monument so they wont be confused and keep our prerogative. Since the Antiquities Act has been on the books in 1906 almost every president , republican and democrat used it to protect 100 million acres of public land on shore and many times that of submerged lands off the coast. Most anytime congress has used, most every time president s have used the Antiquities Act to protect public Land Congress later effectively ratified that action. Heres an example. Most of you probably know for years the office of tourism ran a Successful Campaign to encourage visitation to a trade mark, the name, the mighty five National Parks. What you may not notice four of those parks were first protected by the president using the Antiquities Act. It is not unusual but there are 63 iconic places called National Parks. Half of them were first protected by the president using Antiquities Act and congress came along later and flashed a park label on them so congress could get credit too. In the 1960s, the demand by a conservative democrat from colorado, who for 14 years shared the Relevant Committee of the house, he engineered and persuaded congress to recapture a lot of that authority they had delegated to the executive branch. The first big success came with the wilderness act of 1964, congress created a new, protective category of public land, the most protective category because generally speaking in wilderness you cant build roads or use motorized vehicles or undertake activities like logging and mining. The enthusiast designating wilderness areas, but the most important thing was Congress Makes the decision. Congress is the gatekeeper. No single acre can go to the National Capital wilderness system unless Congress Passed a law authorizing it. What he did, this is not appreciated unless you work around congress a lot. What that did was enhance the influence, political influence of local representatives to congress because theres the longstanding custom in congress that legislation does not pass that applied to a particular area unless congressional representative from that area acquiesced. They have an informal veto almost all the time. There are ten small if you think about it, a body of geographical representatives. Representative from ohio doesnt want to ram something down the throat of representative from utah for fear the same thing will happen to them. Theres this unspoken agreement local legislation has to have acquiescence from local members. And that was in the wilderness act. He seriously underestimated the support that would develop at the grassroots for uses of public land. In fact, since 1964, congress has enacted dozens of pieces of legislation, local members of congress that put 100 million acres of public land into the wilderness system. The upward tick in 1980 was the result of the alachua lands bill. Alaska is so vast that it skewed all the statistics about public land as shown here but the most interesting thing about this to me is the arc is always up. Look at what happened after that. It is still upward and still goes upward. The wilderness act of 64 ushered in a new era of congress, what uses can take place in particular areas of public land. Since 1964 congress has enacted many dozens of laws that give various labels Like National recreation areas, national preserve, National Scenic areas and so forth. Each of these individual laws sets out the terms under which those particular labeled areas can be managed. Primarily by making conservation and recreation primary uses of those lantern limiting Agency Discretion by ruling out or discouraging harvesting and the like. All these protections underlying, were put in place because a bipartisan consensus favored them including consensus in the particular places these labeled areas are found. In 1976 gerald ford, republican, signed into law a Major Overhaul of the law governing the agency that manages more acres of public land, the bureau of Land Management, the federal land policy and Management Act, which was inelegantly called, adopted all the recommendations of a bipartisan body dominated by westerners that congress established a few years before. Chaired by none other than wayne espinal. They put the finishing touches on the legislation which also dominated by western members of the house and senate. One thrust of this law was leaner management of public land. One of the most important developed in public land policy in the last halfcentury is how the blm long derided as the bureau of livestock and mining, has a strong bipartisan encouragement of u. S. Congress, made conservation, protection of Cultural Resources a major focus and this is captured here. The logo of the bureau of Land Management used to be engineer, surveyor, minor, and all of that and look on the right. The bureau of Land Management should now be referred to as the bureau of landscape and mining. What this shows, congress is not generally discriminated among the four principal agencies in emphasizing confirmation and recreation of public land. All four agencies manage tens of millions of acres of wilderness. National conservation areas and recreation areas that emphasize protection and conservation. Congress has given each agency a clear marching order to Pay Attention to environment and science in their decisionmaking, this blurred the distinction among these four agencies. Today, regardless which agency is in charge americas public lands are generally managed more for conservation and recreation than anything else. Congressional activism the last 60 years enhance the durability of these protections that congress hardly ever reverses itself and this is captured in this slide. It does kind of sum up the major theme of my book. The solid line, the decisions to hold lands and National Ownership. Always up. The dotted line is primarily congressional decision to protect areas primarily for conservation and recreation. Consistently up in both cases and goes up today. I am guessing some of you are ready to accuse me of painting an overly rosy picture especially in utah. The conflict, the order of the day on just about everything, why should public land policy be different. I dont deny politics has become more polarized in the last halfcentury or so but my book tries to make the case and i think it is a strong case that that has not significantly affected the overall direction of public land policy. Let me explain. In the late 1970s there was something that was labeled by a dc journalist looking for a snappy headline. It promoted primarily by great public lands, unhappy with the direction of federal policy particularly an enactment of federal land policy Management Act in 1976. What it did was claim the state owned the public land. A handful of states made that claim formally in legislation. Rebellions sound serious but never got any practice as a political movement. And acting that legislation never try to litigate their claim or take any other concrete steps to enforce it. Congress never took it seriously. Neither did the executive branch and needed to the American People including people in the states that were abstention rebelling. Under this blast of hot air, along tradition of bipartisan consensus supporting more protection from a public land endured. It survives another hiccup when early in the first term, libertarian economist persuaded Ronald Reagan to sell off 30 million acres of public land to help balance the budget. The proposal triggered much opposition across the country including at the grassroots. It found no support among republicans or democrats in congress and went nowhere. The medical proposal of the first interior secretary who wanted to issue a war in gasoline everywhere. What became a serious political liability, left office, reagan, a politician moved swiftly to the middle on public land issues. Here is an example of moving to the middle. The alaska land bill and smaller thrust upward, that was Ronald Reagan signing 8 million acres into wilderness, worm republicans controlled the senate in 198384. In fact, that was the largest single addition in any year since the wilderness act was enacted in 1964. Reagan went on to sign into law legislation putting more acreage in the lower 48 states in wilderness and any president before him or after him. 1985, the future interior secretary, nicely captured what happened. It remembers is a time Public Protection method to sharpen the message. A Grassroots Campaign to replace the idea of multiple news, a wellworn catchphrase used to public Land Management blm, fully open to logging and mining for intensive derailment. To replace the idea with the idea of public use. The new reality that the most protected news of western public land will usually be for Public Purposes like protecting watersheds, wildlife, and recreation. Republicans and democrats got the message. Today, in fact, mining, drilling and largescale commercial logging take place on a relatively small proportion of blm and Forest Service land. The pattern helped subsequent administrations. 1994, Newt Gingrich leaked the campaign using whats called the contract with america to look at the house for the republicans, bristles with antigovernment records, totally silent on public land. The message of the contract with america was well polled in advance by a brilliant messenger named frank nonce who is still around and he put the matter broadly, he advised the gop not to challenge what he called the most popular federal programs today, specifically conservation of public land and waters through open spaces. Republicans generally followed his advice ever since. The tea party in 2010, recapturing the house but did not result in significant efforts to pull back protections for public land. Republican party the last couple decades has moved it to lets think about selling off some public land, some dog whistles of the far right fringe, but no proposal has been made to put those plans into practice. The chart tells the story. Early 2,009, president obama signed an omnibus public Land Protection Management Act into law. Most of its parts have been assembled earlier when republicans controlled the white house and one house of congress, but millions more acres in the wilderness system, establish more National Conservation areas indebted to the National Parks. Some of you are wondering, did the Trump Administration break that packed . After all, wasnt its biggest flash to downsize two large National Monuments . That president s clinton and obama had established, didnt it make numerous other efforts to take Public Policy away from conservation towards iustrial expansion . To some extent that is true, but i believe a good case can be made that donald trump correctly grasped most voters who identify as republicans in the west do not support transferring public lands to the state or the private sector or slipping protections away. Consider this. In 2016, when donald trump was competing in a hotly contested race for the republican nomination, for that nomination, ted cruz were saying things like we should give full control of public lands to their rightful owners, its citizens. Trump a leading organ for field sports enthusiasts in which he exquisitely opposed selling off public lands or stripping them of protection. He called them, he said the United States are great stewards of those magnificent lands and he installed the interior secretary who gained prominence because he resigned from the republican platform in 2016 because it was considering a plank to propose selling off public land and the week he resigned in protest. The utah monument. He didnt tinker with any of the other National Monuments established by his predecessor. Finally and most important before he left office he signed two important pieces of bipartisan Public Protection legislation into law. The first in 2,019 was another of these omnibus public Land Protection bills, added more than a million makers, acres, demanded more National Park system units etc. A noteworthy piece, by the way, added protection to a million acres of public land in southern utah. Crafted by republican congressman john curtis not long after trump shrunk the nearby ones. Another component of the 2019 bill and did congresss practice of putting an Expiration Date on the land and Water Conservation side. Something congress enacted in 1964 which produces a stream of revenue for acquiring for state, local and National Government to acquire more land and Public Ownership for conservation and recreation. As a result of that 2019 legislation, it does not have to be renewed. The next year, trump signed into law the Great American outdoors act. It made strong bipartisan support, made it even more important change in the Conservation Fund because since 1964 congress insisted that as revenue accrued, congress each year had to decide how much gets spent out of it. In 2020, with strong bipartisan support, congress made it a true Revolving Fund so the revenue comes in and can be sent out without further congressional approval. That has been called the most significant Land Conservation measure in a generation. Now as you know, President Biden restored the utah monument a year ago and also restored, working to restore other public Land Protections trump sought to weaken. Some of these efforts as you know are complicated by the war in ukraine. Generally speaking i think it is fair to say most of those biden actions, restoring protections, have not had much back lash. Americans have long argued about the role the National Government should play in american life. But for more than a century public lands were regarded as an exception to that general rule. Every issue where a broad majority of americans agree, theres always a small noisy group of dissenters, people hostile to just about everything the government does. According to practically every opinion poll taken across the west as well as across the rest of the nation, large majorities of americans across both Political Parties once more and better protected public land. Heres a slide showing the latest in a long series of annual polls taken by the state of the rockies project. Republicans and democrats in every state, ask them a series of questions about public Land Protection and as you can see, americans in these western states of both Political Parties agree holding and protecting large amounts of public land and National Ownership is extraordinarily beneficial. Weve got to call this a political Success Story. Showing the political process is working the way it is supposed to work, where Congress Response to and accurately reflects Public Opinion. Paying more attention to success stories, particularly important right here, where many are skeptical anything good can come out of washington. The major reason i wrote the book. It is not creeping socialism. All who know as we do here in areas with abundant public land, no they provide many opportunities for private enterprise, the continuing emphasis on protecting public lands illustrates how recreational businesses have become a Major Economic driver in many smaller communities, making the economic contributions of traditional activities like mining, logging and livestock raising payout by comparison. In fact, let me pivot to look forward. This is a big political Success Story in my estimation, public lands face major challenges. Weve all seen slides like this. Showing Carbon Emissions going up and up. The Biggest Challenges are Climate Change and biodiversity law. They are both global problems and they both test public land. The changing climate among other things altered the quality, the National Quality of public lands are usually a major reason they were protected in the first place. Yellowstone, the New York Times said in a headline a while back, will be radically different. Public lands are invaluable reservoirs of biodiversity being threatened by what is being called the sixth great extinction in the history of the planet. The history of americas public lands can help inform how we as a nation and world confront these serious challenges. Public lands provide a demonstration of the effects of Climate Change. The glaciers are going to disappear from glacier National Park within the next decade or so, this can sound the alarm and change Public Opinion and stimulate clinic adult critical action. Dealing effectively with Climate Change and biodiversity requires mustering the political will to decide societys collective longterm interests must outweigh shorterterm narrower interests. The history of America Public lands shows how time and again our political system has done exactly that, preserving iconic places like the Grand Staircase for general public enjoyment and acquiring that habitat to recover populations of migratory birds and restoring forest lands in the eastern part of the country. And doing other things like it. Taking into account, acting in the interests of future generations. I think probably the best example of an acting in the interest of future generations the american political system has ever produced. Because these problems are global, the United States can take pride in historic leadership role in this area spearheaded by public land policy. We can see emerging Global Networks of protected public lands that include several hundred biosphere reserves and World Heritage fights that celebrate nature. One otherenge let me mention briefly, the recreational explosion, smashing previous visitation records, going steeply uphill. It is woerl that americans want to recreate on public land. We need to safeguard those opportunities regardless of baances. It can be challenging to manage large numbers of visitors, recreational uses, while providing meaningful experiences, not that we dont love these lands to death, but the very qualities that attract them. This pose is obviously some new challenges. Public land managers today, instead of talking about how they are balancing logging versus recreation or things like that, the traditional things they did, talking about how to protect wildlife and Cultural Resources and accommodate hikers, hunters, anglers, vehicle users, wild horse lovers, bird watchers and all the rest. There is good news on this front. 2020 legislation trump signed into law established the Legacy Restoration fund. A major step to the maintenance backlog and management of these public lands. It has been called the largest single investment in public land in American History. Before i close let me say a few words about the symbolism of the secretary of the interior being the first native american to hold a cabinet post in American History. In the latter part of my book as i mentioned earlier, i discussed in some detail about in the decades after world war ii, native nations have increasingly demanded, and sometimes won, greater consideration of their strong connections to Ancestral Lands that are now in Public Ownership. They have, for example, works with congress and the executives on cultural sites, exert more influence on how public lands are managed and congress has conveyed lands with cultural resilience. In the interests of native nations and advocate for protection of public land, overlap. Not perfectly but they overlap a great deal. One example of federal Land Management agencies just as it is happening in many nations around the world, growing more on the traditional knowledge of Indigenous People for guidance in managing these large areas, protecting biodiversity, dealing with challenges of Climate Change. The nations public lands offer many opportunities for correcting past injustices and healing societal wounds and i expect more to be done in this area in the coming years. Let me close with where i started. The political process ultimately sets public land policy. The future of public land will be decided by officials, the American People get the final word. There is nothing in the constitution says we need or have to have public land. Congress can pass ordinary statutes and privatize them all. No acre of public land is immune, not even iconic places. Congress calls for public land managers to grapple with the challenges that i describe. That would make it harder for them to fulfill their stewardship mission which in turn undermines Public Confidence and public support for public land. Each new generation of americans must decide what it wants to do with these lands. Without Political Support or the values they bring to our way of life will be lost. The future will be determined by how americans, including rising generations attending this loss will react to the changes now underway. Those are daunting questions. Will voters continue to support protecting public land as Climate Change takes its toll, biodiversity suffers as more iconic places become more crowded but rejecting rather than respecting the teachings of science become a dominant attitude, with partisan rhetoric intensifying. As mines become more closed. Of the american political system becomes more dysfunctional, in places where public lands are abundant continue to believe protecting these lands enhances the quality of life . The answers will determine whether the longstanding bipartisan consensus on the direction of public land policy will unravel. As president nixon put it in 1971, republicans give the nation breathing space. A public asset that nurtures National Parks, mental health, the spirit of community and increasingly diverse nation, offers countless millions of people lifechanging encounters with nature. At the same time, public land tourism is the economic anchor of many communities. Public land policy is admittedly to better reflect diversity and past injustices. Native americans live people of color, largely excluded from participating in many of the key decisions of public land policy in the past but no longer the case. These lands remain subject to the will of the electorate, a Group Defined more broadly than ever before and these lands can help redress past injustices and to demonstrate our ability as a people to Work Together and find Common Ground. In a similar work, the wealth of nations published the same year as the declaration of independence, adam smith, the champion of free market capitalism made a strong case for the ownership of land but for one exception, a great and civilized nation, he wrote, also holds land for the purpose of pleasure and magnificent for everyones benefit. The National Government responding to Public Opinion has heated smiths advice, is a bipartisan Success Story deserving of celebration. A welcome counter to the Political Polarization and distrust. Thank you very much. I am happy to answer questions. [applause] thank you very much for that enlightening lecture, and for sharing your observations about the trajectory of public land policy. I neglected, before we started, to advise everyone both here in the audience and virtually, that you can ask questions, making use of the instructions that are now on the screen behind john leshy. If another attendee has asked a question, you can put a thumbs up icon that you like that question and i will proceed to pose questions to john leshy. I should also note the kings english bookshop has joined us virtually to sell john leshys book our Common Ground a history of americas public lands. Information to order the book is online on the websites for both the Stegner Center and the kings english bookshop. Let me turn to questions that have been posed at this point by the audience. Let me invite additional questions. To begin with, at this time of deep division, given our extensive experience with that, what are your suggestions for some types of reconciliation that might address and lessen that division. No surprise, i think it would be helpful to lower our voices and open our minds a little more. The successes that have been achieved, and there have been many as i mentioned, have usually come from people sitting around a table and discussing differences openly and seeing how they can be reconciled and looking for Common Grounds. Thats the reason i called the book that. I think the successes are ongoing, they are happening. As i mentioned, it is kind of ironic, but two years after donald trump, two large monuments in southern utah, Congress Approved legislation spearheaded by the local republican congressman that protected more than a million acres, that was owned by this kind of quiet discussion around that. Finding a Common Ground. I think we have got a proven track record and we should continue that, and not be carried away by inflamed rhetoric which is too often the case. I follow that up. Do you see them looking forward, much of the legislation respecting public lands, coming out of local types of negotiated agreements as opposed to any Major National legislation addressing public land policy . It is happening all the time. Congressman mike tipton had a bill in idaho through congress not long ago. Before that, similar legislation involving other lands in southeastern idaho. S being considered to do something similar in Eastern Oregon. So this of stuff is percolating. You know, you dont hear about it, but it is percolating now. It is harder to get things through congress than it used to be, for sure. But things do get through. Remember, i mean, 20 in 2020 were two huge successes for public lands trump signed into law. Those two pieces of legislation i. So all is not lost is my message. I think progress is still possible and and likely frankly. Right. Youre ask when you a part of the Clinton Administration and participated in the designation of the Grand Staircase Escalante National monument did utahs delegation support that action were any concessions made to help any concessions made . An example, i was deeply personally involved in the. With theat delegation and have heard abo lot from them and howe might address them. For example, the top concern was recommending that the president agree they shouldnt say theres a provision that preserves this interference and there were about ten things they were concerned about and accommodate the t them. In the aftermath, they have a lot in them. It gives land that they could better use more productively elsewheree did. Congress negotiated this that Congress Approved 1999, i think it was so in the aftermath even though it caused controversy, there is tremendous progress and congress agreed coming together to make these changes so its a good example of how it can and should work. Your description seems to brush over continuing concerns about the efficacy of Agency Management in this matter. Government does something about it and i think the historr improvement and its a slow process that requires a lot of engagement by the public. Agencies do tend to listen to what the public wants and of her concerns are stressed, they will eventually stop so nothing is perfect but it does some things over time and an example of Good Government looking but requires public attention and money but good news, it provides a welcomed and needed public agencies. Getting specific on the Resource Management issue, how do you see issues related to these forces . How do we achieve more Management Compromise in utah and nevada and elsewhere . I manage in my many years in government, avoid much as i could because it involves, its complicatedin particularly by lw enforcement advocates. It is the real nub of the problem and nobody knows so solutions and there is a lot of attention many put into cross deception and bring the problem out of control. Have i no great ideas how to soe that problem. Im hoping it can work but well see. You mentioned the fact that they were on the land long before we created a public land system so make sure ive got my question. Why arent native nations given First Priority over all of these lands . It feels like we should be given a more definitive pole in the future of our public lands. This is one thing i have been involved in about this legal development. The different native nations i remember a from way back when i first started. It could be a very daunting task but the problem made at a local level is what is being made. Most of these laws regard specific areas of public land. Manyth have the transfer of land back to the local nations. Congress can do it but it has to be negotiated. Give an example in the 1990s, northwestern montana, take over management thats been acquired from these in 1905 and whether the price was fair or not. The restoration area and they take over in terms of that transfer of measurement, not title and the Administration Revises it and finally in 202042019s congress was about o approve that throw up their hands and said lets just give this. The title has been transferred and its this larger political framework and that will happen more and more i think. Senator wyden has introduced to add more protections Eastern Oregon and involve the burns pike so was seen more and i ofthink more about will happen. President biden called for the protectionof of 30 of landy 2030. Can you share the best pathway forward making headway . The firstan question, what ds conserve mean . Wilderness and protected from all kinds of abuses. They are maybe raised by livestock as well. So it is a complex question. The goal of saying we should protect and make that a goal and i think more than 100 nations around the world have basically endorsed got goal. Ultimately the goal is to protect 50 and this came from the bureaus and nationalists who read a book several years ago, the question presented, how do we really preserve this remnants ofrs biodiversity around the planet . He said if we picked the right percentage of land, we can do it and thats where this idea came from. It is a White Movement the Biden Administration signed on to. Its not that easy but the details to some extent, remain. What finish up with one and a question. Do you believe are bedrock policy protecting public lands are nimble enough to allow for modernization of the challenges they face including Climate Change and testified use . Do we need systemic overhaul . Systemic overall would be good but you look at the history, and this is politics, it really works out usually it is incremental change, carefully negotiated with a lot of engagement with different colors and almost certainly we will see more of what so i dont think big grandiose solutions systematicallysy are possible bt incremental changes are possible and its happening literally as we speak. Thank you for todays lecture and responding to these questions from our audience and all the work youve done over the years of public lands and public service. Our Common Ground, history of americas public wants is available for purchase to the shop online in Salt Lake City and elsewhere and join me in thanking him for this enlightening presentationat tod. [applause] weekends are an intellectual piece. Every saturday in American History tv documents american stories and sundays book tv brings the latest i nonfiction books and authors. Funding comes from these children companies and more including book of broadband. Cspan2 is a public service. American history tv saturdays on cspan2 exploring people and events that tilt the american stories. Whats the centennial conference working the 30th to the white house. Former white house