Welcome celebrating release of win every argument the art of debating per swaged and public speaking. Win every argument shows how to communicate with confidence, rise above a debate in the real world. Whether you are making a presentation at work or a debate current political issues with a friend, will teach you to sharken speaking skills and t me the winning case. Awardwinning British American journalist right and hes a host of the show on msnbc and peacock a former columnist and podcaster former presenter on dplish and his opeds have also appeared in the New York Times and washington post. Hassan will be in conversation with jen psaki discussed as restart that because it deserves one of the best press secretaries ever a sitting accolade yes. [applause] aa sitting accolade given that her tenure as the White House Press secretary covered one of the most complex periods in modern president ial history. Psaki has a show launching on msnbcek inside with jen psaki at 12 p. M. On sundays. There you go. [applause] please welcome me many joining politics and pros this morning. Is this working what a great crowd here this is amazing first ill start by giving you a little heads up when we get to thet q and a portion you will l have the opportunities to debate me it. Theb theres safe topics hell been the other side hes a cheese lover if you hate cheese get up there or if youre somebody who thinks kofd restrictions should have been thrown out a year ago hes also happy to debate you. So just a heads up for that. I will note that while youre thinking about this i have a blurb on the back where i refer to as one of the toughest interviews i did in the white house so just prepare yourself make some notes, and youll have your time. So i want to start because everybody in here may own the bookev or maybe their potential book buyers and for their friends why do you need to know how to win a debate . What is the goal . It is a great question thank you everyone for coming out i never realized how popular you were jen psaki so so i saw this crowd as i picked thehe right person to be in conversation with. Special thanks to everyone stapgding i came to politics for a lunch and i have to start out the whole time and i was really annoyed. So [applause] thank you all for coming and standing up. We appreciate you. Look, iou say in the introductin to the book, people saying i dont like to argue i did a mutual interview monday night i dont likeme arguing a lot of yu will say we try to avoid them and ivo quote i quote in the book saying avoid arguments and avoid like rattlesnakes i think people enjoy arguments they enjoy winning them and if you lose an argument, obviously, youre not going to enjoy doing it so i am of the school of thoughts that believes Everyone Wants to win an argument. Everyone at some point in their life needs to or has to win an argument and everyone can be taught to win an argument thats why i started to write the book because i believe very strongly that if people say oh you know what you do or what i do were born that way. It is a natural no i dont buy that at all i think what we do can be taught. Can be learned. Ive learned over the years people have been talking about stuff a thousands of years going back to aristotle and toipght combine with my own experiences say dont be afraid of this stuff. Anyone with do this thats why i wrote the book. D you and i have talked about this sometimes people think you think we all came out of the womb and wing it and theres a huge amount of preparation almost most important part you talk a lot about this in your book. So i have a show launching in two weeks just again it t will us a little bit about your preparation for winning an argument or an interview which sometimes is an argument on your show. So the book is divided into threent sections first section l about fundamentals all of the stuff im talking about stuff you need to make emotional appeal and call the rekreepght which is you know all about. And what you need to do in terms of listen because listening important also. At home arguments which i amount a controversial defense for given the book. More for people who didnt it is attacking the person no the the argument when youre in High School Debate and my daughter is saying play the bull not the man theres in theory and great on College Campuses if real life you have to play the man and the bull and i make the point because one of the main ways is asserting your credibility and diminishing opponent and when people say ethos address the argument thats nonceps and examples in the book if somebody has a history of lying dont trust that person. N. Thats an argument if somebody is paid by the fossil fuel argument youto should points out theres a conflict of interest there and first part of the book i point out funds mentales in the middle i have fun is spiciest section trips the geng is good too. Tricks things to get out of a hole and corner or knock off your adversary offbalance and third section is wbd worthy but dull it is practice, preparation how to build confidence that sounds likeun homework. But it is probably the most important part of the book because i couldnt do what i do and you wouldnt do unless you put in those hours and that effort because as i say this is not natural stuff. This is stuff that requires preparation delivery and i tell the story many people in the book who we consider today to be great and didnt start out that way whether Winston Churchill and talk about those of you study the greatest in ancient greece to be the father of rhetoric and could not give a speech in his 20s. He embarrassed himself in public and court had a stutter and built himself underground batman style cave which he retreated into and shaved off half his head and too embarrassed to come out of the cave and forced himself to stay down there standing in front of a mirror running become and forth with pebbles in his mouth to get past stamina until he thought he was good enough to take people on again and today hes considered one of the Great Fathers of rhetoric if we can do it and churchill can where did churchill practice . A story of his valet who used to hear churchill murmuring in the bathroom in the tub and he would run and say sir what can i get you and he would say im not talking to you im addressing house ofdr commons. Churchill would practice his speech in the talk because in the book when he was a younger mp tries to give a speech in the commons went red face im sure many have been there and couldnt remember what what wast thing to sayho and it was not le house of representatives it was furious spicier and belligerent so spent next 30 years fight them on beaches stapgd up to the nazis that didnt come naturally to him. Give us a little sense of each stage so you have a big interview coming up this sundaye maybe you do i dont know what it is you can tell us all here. [laughter] whatat are you doing to prepare for that starting tomorrow so the number one thing i do when i have an interview guest and i encourage this doesnt just apply to interviews but you have a big meeting in the boardroom tomorrow. A big case in court if youre a lawyer. You have a big presentation in high school. I try and find out every sounds obvious i know it sounds like departmentnt of obvious find everything that you can possibly find out about issue, other person, every argument i talk about in the book technique called steel manning we talk about straw manning using weakest possible argument against your wont in a weakway dont do that. You can do that during a debate to mock them and preparing for a debate steelman argument and come up with strongest argument to come up against and i pride myself in knowing the other sides of the argument better than they do if you can know the other y persons argument better than they do then they have nowhere else to go and you dont want to be surprised on live tv in the middle of a boardroom presentation. So people again, take the stuff for graduated but it requires a lot of time i talk about in the book or roleplaying when i was englishman we a long time longer than we have in cable news as youll discover in a couple of weeks we would sit and role play so you know, we have the former Israeli Foreign minister on the show danny i had a producer, basically become danny island for a week and she would come into meetings and she would be danny i would treat her as danny and she would basically her job to go through previous interviews and know what his answers are to various questions almost leak a chart. If he says this ill say this. If he says this ill go there if so that youre complete whole thing is mapped out before look atat winging it. How did he i wish i could say i pulled it out from my memory but calling her danny after the show is over because i got into it. But roleplaying brainstorming steel manning i talk about all of theg. Techniques to get ready for that big event. Do the homework but the in the time. Because really annoys me someone who does this for a living people go outin there and well f im going to operate an patient or going to do some of the tax plans and count and do work and go to the university and get bestbe degree public speaking oi can do that in half an hour. No put the same amount it is just as hard if not harder. So youve done all of the prep work which is whole point you get to the interview. Whats it like in the moment when you know you prepared for this moment and the person says something and youre like i have the receiptve in any back pocket so excited about this moments or describe it for me. But i love the way you dont know that moment because im pretty sure i saw you do that in the White House Briefing room with fox pete doocy baby of the White House Press corps. I saw the psaki bombs. Many bombs online. But i do enjoy doing them i talk about in the book im not going to pretend. In this book theres no false modesty sorry to say. If youu get a bite it is clearn the book theres a hundred books in the store im sure that will teach you how to negotiate and give a speech and you know do a presentation. Im notpr doing that im teachig you how toin win and im ruthles about that and open about that. And i say in the book, i get theres a high. Theres a adrenaline when im interviewing john bolton and i say to him because i did the homework i found his oldest speeches i powngdz him giving speech to the mek iranian cult Opposition Group it is good because it is against iranian government and support that group and hes got speeches for money paid speeches so i asked him no one asked him about this so lets ask him about this. Ask having an interview and i say what about the mek is it because they pay you ten grand for a speech. How dare you no one buys john bolton but they did pay you when prescribed terrorist organization. Ib no Hillary Clinton im sure you love she delisted them. Like no but you gave a speech before they were delisted in paris in 2,000 whatever it was i have and we watched and transcribed it. John bolton were on remote hes like it is breaking up. John bolton does you said this interview would be 15 minutes. [laughter] and your 15 minutes are up sir. And im like actually no. Ive got a clock in front of me were not at that time. Now that was a great moment to know that john bolton hes, you know, nobodys fault but smart guy been debating since the Yale Political Union is very good at interviews most interviews dont get the better of him thats a great moment i have the receipt he thinks hes out of it so mommies are great moment when is you talk about in the book you know, in the former press but im sure accused others it is a classic move from politicians. Li but nothing wrong with that. That iswr good im trying to got you holding you to account. Right a goal. Getting it. Trying to got you i make no apologies for that right Holding Someone catching them if youre inking the im going to call you out general Michael Flynn. Before you went full q and had Short National security in American History he came on my show he was a trump proxy at that time in the 2016 race and we discovered during Obama Administration when you knew when that end w in the end of te obama he was head of the dia defense perhaps barack obama worst decision many decisions but he make Michael Flynn with the intelligence decision and we foundun a quote where he talked about how the Nuclear Threat wasntt a threat so i decided d talk about in a book the way to disarm your opponent is present them with their own words without telling them theyre their words why below the belt it is not my job it is your job. [laughter] so we read out the court i said well you spend whole show. Iran, iran wee must you know, i said do you agree with people who say that Iran Nuclear Program is not no i dont agree request that. Not at all those are your words. That that was a moment yeah some people they go cheer at Football Games thats me. [laughter] thats my moment. Yeah. Yes. Thats my moment. Receipt so eve this a Chapter Chapter three of the book ise l about receipt so make sure you have your receipt dont get in a debate where youre not armed receipt comes from wanting to see physical receipts like youve done that in the Briefing Room youve r pulled out ive gt it here. I have this in my pocket. Yeah. There you are. So one of the things you talk about in the book which really stuck with me is just this where did you balance between facts and charts and heart and emotion . In democrats god bless all them umbrella love a good chart navidad tay, i mean i dont know if you all remember the bending cost curve state the Affordable Act i was in the white house at the time i dont know still what that means. Did you stay awake during meetings . Barely. But you know, theres a balance right because you want to be fact based but you also want to be flexible and agile so whats that balance . How do you define that . So balance is you need facts im not here to tell you were in a post fact world and one of the reason i wrote the book is we might come to this. So many gaslighting these days andd bsing and ruining the art f the debate by beating the krawp out of the on innocence nonsense. It facts arei important. You need to havee a solid substantivesu backing to what youre saying but that wont win you. Nobody is convinced with a chart and democrats bless them the labor party in the u. K. Where im from amazing. Very tech approach if i can do one more pugh poll i will con vips this voter. If i can write a report one more fact, statistic and you know Hillary Clinton bless her heart in 2016 you know up against donald trump. Donald trumpmp understands one thing he understands how to rows all ofemotionally with the worst motion but emotionally. Build a wall lock her up. Ban muslims we remember those lines today because theyre to the point and they rows something in you. Kind of disliking or like Hillary Clinton has like what a 17 point child care plan it was great. Im sure it would have improved child care across america but nobody was going vote on that basis paying attention sadly i wish we lived where the 17 chart lives notag live in the abstract College Debate system. Thats great for highha school f youre a high school College Debaterr great but in real world it is not how it works. You have to have emotional appeal and tell stories, engage people with passion. If it is going to be heart versus head the heart is going toto beat the head nine times ot of ten and goes back to aristotle talks about ethos personalib credibility but paths the need to connect with peoples hearts. Human brain is not hard wired to receive a bunch of statistics. Thats not how you can convince yourth spouse or kids to get anything done you make emotional appeal but when we get into politics sometime we say democrats in particular because i dont know liberal arts, education, law degrees no idea. But this idea we like facts. Rational defeat you and thats not how americans are. They want toto be inspired infud to see righteous anger. I talk in thehe book about michl with the case study in, you know, 1988. Is up against george bush senior. The debate begins in l. A. , first question Death Penalty getting hard is soft on crime im not sure how. Many of your old enouh to remember. And is asked what if kitty dukakis, his wife was raped and murdered would you still cannott hold the Death Penalty . The carcass gives a three minute answer. Described in the book, three minute answer he talks about massachusetts crime rate to talks about d8 Law Enforcement talks about planning a drug assignment for the Southern Hemisphere pretty talks aboutth everything except the fact the guy just said his wife mightve been brutally murdered people want to and from their commanderinchief what is his inreaction question because a gt reaction to say his wife had been murdered he didnt do it he was cold, emotionless he was flat he absolutely got destroyed its own campaignha manager saidi knew we had lost that night thats a problem the democrats took far too often. And Hillary Clinton to someone else accused as cold et cetera. Somewhat misogynistic so mistreat your membership be barack obama in New Hampshire and people so she can get engaged with voters. I dont think that was a coincidence i dont think its a coincidence the six democrats in president ial elections in the 21st century across the three lost or alcor, john kerry, and Hillary Clinton think thatsgr a coincidence smart people but not the most inspiring of barack obama in a Different League and joe biden is not the best buddies authentic people thinkea what he speaks he sank when means not talking off telling point or a prompter. I do think there is a link. How d