The subcommittee on oversight will come to order. Without objection the meeting record will remain open. Members may submit any materials they wish to be included. Thank you Ranking Member torres and members of the subcommittee for joining us in todays oversight hearing. Today we are focused on identifying the newer security years that continue to persist following debris in the United States capital on january 6, 2021. There are still many Unanswered Questions for former Speaker Pelosi and House Democrats spent millions of dollars on the select committee to investigate january 6 but the committee failed to investigate the Real Security failures. Today we are joined by chief son who was chief of the United States Capitol Police on that day. The Democrats Select Committee never invited him to testify during one of their prime time hearing despite him being the chief of police on january 6. Perhaps that is because the his test may not have fit their narrative. For months House Democrats championed the antidefund police narrative. They threatened to cut the Capitol Police budget this pluralization directly contributed to the failures that we witnessed that day. Let me be clear, i stand with lawenforcement, specifically Capitol Police officers and appreciate their dedication, bravery and surface. I hope my democratic colleagues do the same. We know serious structural failures within the Capitol Police Intelligence Department contributed to the terrible events of that day, this includes misplaced and misguided goals as well as failures that resulted in timely warnings not reaching the leadership. Instead of doing a comprehensive assessment of these intelligence failures, chief son was pushed out and the leadership silenced individuals who spoke about these failures. Retaliation against whistleblowers is unacceptable and this is why House Republicans are conducting this investigation. I look forward to hearing his view regarding the allegations that are not public. I also look for to hearing directly from chief son about Capitol Police including dayto day relations with the Capitol Police board as well as a speaker the house. His test money today will provide transparency, accountability and help to prevent anything like this from happening again. Finally, we will focus on the aftermath of january 6 and the ensuing witchhunt conducted by, of which i was unfortunately a target. Throughout nearly two years of work the select committee currently operated on hearsay to fit their narrative. On the final report in december of 22 it was a political weapon focus at attacking former President Trump and his supporters instead of how to prevent another incident. We must ask ourselves why the capital was ill prepared and what security changes are needed to secure adequate capital security. A question that the january 6 select committee failed to scrutinize. This was preventable and we must ensure nothing like this ever happens again. I now recognize the Ranking Member ms. Torres for the purpose of providing an opening statement. Thank you. Big protest on january 6th, b there and b while on december 1920 20 former president donald trump, the leader of the Republican Party sent those faithful fateful words to his supporters and they complied. Following that there was a 1000 increase in violent rhetoric against members of congress and Law Enforcement officers. In the weeks and months leading up to january 6th trump continue to incite arrest accused democrats of rigging the election and referring to it as the biggest scam in our nations history. On new years day he tweeted january 6, see you in dc periods on the morning of the attack, a republican member of Congress Told the crowd, today is the day that american patriots are taking down names and kicking. Our ancestor sacrifice blood, sweat, tears, fortunes and sometimes their lives. Are you willing to do the same . Rudy giuliani continued to incite the crowd by asking for a trial by combat. While donald trump told his supporters we are going to walk down and i will be there with you. The former president orchestrated a correct scheme to overturn the results of a free and fair election. When that did not work he is cited his supporters to violence. Updated via social media and directed by the former president the crowd marched to the capital armed with guns handcuffed and pepper sprayed. If they did not bring a weapon they found one. They viciously destroying property and arresting to hang Vice President pence. The former president bears full responsibility for bringing violence to the capital. I spoke with some of the heroic Capitol Police officers who were injured and beaten that day by the violent mob. They still face the enduring pain of that traumatic day. If not for the heroic actions of Law Enforcement officers, some of whom gave their lives to protect us, the former president and his supporters would have. Immediately Speaker Pelosi engaged with retired army general to conduct a complete security assessment of the capital to identify the facilities. In addition to the work of the task force the former chair of this committee instructed the u. S. Capitol police to halt all ongoing investigations and devote all resources to investigating the attack. House democrats and then directed the Government Accountability office to perform a governmentwide examination of the attack, including a comprehensive review of Agency Preparation and response. Still, after republicans refused to support legislation to create an independent commission the Bipartisan Select Committee, to investigate the january 6 attack took up this work. In addition to the many investigations that pass the funding bill, the institution with adequate resources to address our security needs. The law also established the howard c newman good center for wellness named in honor of a Capitol Police officer who tragically took his life following the attack to ensure that his partners on the floor have access to care as they continue to heal from the traumatic events of a violent insurrection. We are still reckoning with the fallout from january 6 collectively as a country and as individuals. The American Democratic experiment came dangerously close to ending, if it was not for the courageous actions of the capital and dc police. The person, the person responsible for directing violence at the capitol that day in order to undermine the peaceful transfer of power is the favorite to secure the republican nomination for president. Mr. Chairman, i ask for unanimous consent to enter the following from the congressional record dated, containing the minority leader Kevin Mccarthy for president comes impeachment excitement and examining the preparation report and response to the january 6 attack. The Capital Police Inspector Generals testimony from each hearing in a series of hearings convened by this Committee Examining the flash report testimony from a hearing from this committee in 2021 and title reporting Capitol Police and improving accountability for their Capitol Police board and a summary of task force 1 6 capital security review and an article dated september 6, 23 three entitled, has led to 700 years of prison without objection the time has expired. I recognize the full committee Ranking Member for five minutes for the purpose of an opening statement. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman, for calling this hearing. I want to think my colleague and Ranking Members of subcommittee and ms. Torres for her work. I want to thank chief sund for not only being here to offer testimony , but also for your service to the Capitol Police and to our country. I think, whenever we are talking about january 6, it is important that we have a fuller picture of what the house jordan did in the aftermath, particular for those who seem to have developed a case of collective amnesia. I do want to set the record straight. In the days and weeks following the violent mob attack and ransacking of the capital Capitol House members got to work. It started with a forward looking and comprehensive review of the capitol and , and that was spearheaded by general russell. This committee, i was not a member of the committee at the time, the committee then directed the United States Capitol Police Inspector General to set aside the ongoing work and prioritize a comprehensive nonpartisan review of the preparation in response to the attack. Currently the architect of the capitol Inspector General conducted similar assessments of the security. Upon issuing of each ig report, this Committee Held a series of public hearings, six in total, to review the findings and questioned the inspectors general. Reports had 100 recommendations to improve the operations of the Capitol Police, security of the capitol complex and protect the people within , which is of course our largest responsibility. The work did not stop there. While the committee and house ministration conducted its important work, a broader inquiry was necessary to fully investigate and understand the attack not just to hold those involved accountable, but to provide the American Public with answers to basic questions. Legislation was introduced to establish an outside independent commission to investigate and report on the facts and causes of the attack. The bill was developed with input from both parties and that bipartisan framework was reflected in the final text considered by the house. I recall, because he was a friend and colleague of mine, john capex, member of the House Republican caucus who helped to negotiate the deal did so and then inexplicably at the time minority leader mccarthy declared his opposition to the bill, the bill that was characterized by his own handpicked negotiator to represent john catco as a solid and fair agreement. It was pushed through the house on for a republican filibuster. With the prospect of the commission growing bleaker despite efforts to work collaboratively the house voted to a Bipartisan Select Committee to investigate the attack and it was constituted, again, at the last minute the minority leader withdrew his appointment to the committee. Although impossible to list the entirety of its work in the brief five minutes the select committee interviewed hundreds of subjects including participants and government officials who combed through thousands of hours of video with hundreds of thousands of pages of documents held 10 publicize hearings and had a report we did not end the investigation there, nor did we just investigate the attack itself. The laws provided increase security funding for the capitol complex to ensure officer struggling with physical and Emotional Trauma that they had access to the care that they need and deserve. We brought transparency to the Capitol Police board and we needed easy to get outside assistance in the event of an emergency. The Capitol Police were there for us and we wanted to be there for them. January 6 is one of the darkest stains on this countrys history. A armed and violent mob attempted to forcefully disrupt the peaceful transfer of power and subvert the will of the American People at the hands of an increasingly desperate former president. We also witnessed incredible bravery on that day by the Capitol Police that kept us safe and kept our beloved democratic experiment alive and i am forever grateful to the Capitol Police for that and with that i yield back. The chair may declare recess at any time. Without objection Opening Statements will be made part of the hearing record. If they are cemented by 5 00 p. M. Today. And raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god . Let the record show the answer is in the affirmative. I would like to introduce our witness. He served for over 25 years with the metropolitan Police Department and rose to the ranks of the elite special Operations Division overseeing some of the most critical units within the department. In 2017 he was selected as the assistant chief of police and on 2019 he was 18 months. In january 2023, he published a book about the institutional failings entitled courage under fire. Under siege and we appreciate you being here today and look forward to your testimony. We have read your written statement and it will appear in the full committee record. Limit your oral presentation to a brief summary unless i extend the time period and consultation. Please remember to turn on your microphone using the when you begin to speak, the light on the timer in front of you will turn green. After four minutes the mic will turn yellow. When the red light comes on i ask that you please wrap up as your five minutes have expired. I now recognize chief son for five minutes. Good afternoon members of the subcommittee. It is hard to believe its been almost three years since january 6 and we are still having hearings to identify what contributed to that day. There have been four congressional reports and they continue to support what many of us have suspected from the very beginning. January 6 was an intelligent failure. We rely on accurate intelligence to help us develop accurate plans. Accurate intelligence is an essential factor in the decisionmaking process of the Capitol Police. The Capitol Police board and the oversight committees. We now know significant intelligence existed that individuals were plotting to swarm the capital building, target lawmakers and officers and yet no units or agencies sounded the alarm. We were blindsided. Intelligence failed operations. The january 6 attack of the capital was preventable. If the intelligence had and accurately reported and the fbi had followed their policies and established practices, i wouldnt be sitting here today. There was a failure to connect the nine dots on 9 11 and again january 6. Im concerned if we do not identify and correct these issues we may fail again in the future. I did everything i could to defend and protect the u. S. Capital and members of Congress Prior to january sixth. On january 3rd i requested the assistance of the National Guard to support the perimeter and was denied by the two sergeant at arms over concern for politics and optics. Still concerned for the number of personnel i had on the perimeter i called the npd on the morning of january 6 and asked if they could stage additional personnel close to the capital on constitution avenue. Two hours later we were violently attacked at 12 53 p. M. I immediately followed up on the morning call and contacted chief carol at 12 55 p. M. And requested these resources. Npd was on the scene in minutes and was holding the line in delaying the breach of the building. It took 81 agonizing minutes for the mob to fight their way through Numerous Police lines before they were able to reach the capital. The decision to reach out to npd proved critical. Minutes after the attack began, i made my first call to at 12 58 p. M. To request approval to bring in the National Guard. Let me run it up the chain and i will get back to you was his response. It would be 71 minutes before that approval would finally come. Between 12 58 and when i finally received approval for the National Guard, i made 32 calls coordinating support for my officers including 11 frustrating cost of the sergeant at arms regarding my request to the National Guard. My calls resulted in hundreds of Police Officers from around the National Capital region and as far away as new jersey responding to assist. After i received approval to call in the National Guard i had to beg the pentagon officials to send us hope. I was denied assistance by Lieutenant General pi had siding concerns over optics of the National Guard on capitol hill. The d. C. National guard, many of whom were standing within eyesight of the capital and whose motto is capital guardians, would not arrive until almost 6 00 p. M. After the fighting was over and the capital ground secured, the new Jersey State Police arrived before they did to add insult to injury, the Inspector General for the department of defense considered their response appropriate. Besides the npd, the National Guard was the next largest category of personnel that could be deployed to assist my officers. We desperately needed those boots on the ground. The fact that the chief of police, responsible for the entire legislative branch of government was repeatedly denied assistance by the pentagon is in a indefensible. The fact that they were constrained by federal law from bringing in lifesaving resources for officers is unfathomable. This type of litter size control and oversight was and continues to be detrimental to the mission. Why bring in experience police chief if you are not going to allow him to do his job . In december 2021, congress amended two u. S. Law that while the amendment now grants the chief authority to call in federal resources only during an emergency, it does not permit authority to request federal resources in advance of an event which means the request can still be denied. The loss still requires the chief to seek advance approval from the Capitol Police board and congressional leadership. This is what i faced on january 3rd. It should also be noted that the new amendment makes the chief emergency authorization revocable. I am extremely proud and appreciative of the officers and other Law Enforcement agencies that came to our assistance despite bureaucratic issues on the hill and a no show by the military it was Law Enforcement that saved the day and not a Single Member of congress was injured. The men and women in the Capitol Police did not fail in their mission. I ask we address the institutional failures that contributed to january 6th. Also investigate the complaints and allegations against whistleblowers prior to january 6 and review any of the actions to include disciplinary actions that occurred after january 6 to make sure they are properly investigated and not subject to inappropriate coercion or predetermined outcomes. Thank you for your time. Thank you, chief sund. Now recognize the gentleman from virginia, mr. Griffith for five minutes. Summit characterized january 6th as an intelligence failure. Is it true that when you were chief of Police Pittman was the assistant chief of police in charge of the division, yes or no . Yes, sir. You were not made aware of it until after january 6th. Is that correct, yes or no . Yes, sir. Had you seen the assessment report in full issued on january 4th before january 6th . Yes or no . Yes, sir. You had seen a january 4th report . I just want to make sure. There is a january 4th report. Department of daily Intelligence Report. That one . Yes, sir. All right. With this Intelligence Report, had it changed your actions had you received it and fully understood the ramifications of it . When you say fully understood the ramifications of it, there is nothing supporting. What im getting to is what i understood as chief of police, you received the report but there was a comment about some intelligence or about some concerns but it was put on the last page of the report instead of on the first page or it is that accurate . You are referring to the january 3rd . Yeah, january 3rd. It supposed to be 2021. That is the final intelligence assessment but not the final Intelligence Report that is put out. I got my lingo mixed up. No problem. Its a 15 page report with the intelligence information at the end. Stephen wouldnt you expect there to be a warning on the front or highlight that there might be some concern to the Intelligence Department . You can look at the testimony from the people that put it together. There was to include specific intelligence that wouldve been critical for my men and women to be better prepared for that day. All right. Was there something highlighted in the report or was it that there wasnt information that you needed to get to your officers . Wasnt information. When you talk about the intelligence assessment, the very last paragraph, the very last paragraph doesnt tell you anything other than what we were expecting from any of the previous maga rallies that there could be some danger and there could be some thats a very standard response and not something that wouldve highlighted that there was real threat and real concern. Correct. Not what you are seeing now about storming the capital, killing the palace guards, none of that was included in that. That that information was available to ms. Pittman . It was available. Ms. Pittman approved that report for you to use, is that correct . It came out of her unit, sir. Subsequent for january 6, ms. Pittman was retiring, she was given what i would call a sweetheart deal from the United States Capitol Police. She was placed on leave without pay while working a new job for several months. About five, before she reached the eligible age to retire. Its clear she had no intent to return to the United States Capitol Police there has to be an expectation of return. You ever heard of such a sweetheart deal before . No, sir. When you were in management, did counsel, ever indicate that you had the power to give somebody leave without pay and get the retirement without an expectation that they would attempt to return to the United States Capitol Police service . Yes, sir, not that i recall. No one has ever told you, you could do that . No, sir. Its written in the policy that you cant offer. There is a requirement to be an expectation of return. In this case there was not. So you never had the expectation that you could give somebody leave without pay unless they are planning on coming back. Some buddy that might have a health problem. Thats what its for isnt it . Since january 6, 2021, have you learned of other Intelligence Reports in the United States Capitol Police or other federal agencies which could have been of assistance to you and your decisionmaking on january 6 . Yes, sir, i have. All right. I see that my time is up. I will now yield back. The gentleman yields and i recognize the gentleman from california, ms. Torres, for five minutes. I want to welcome the witness before this committee. Since the insurrection, more than 1100 individuals have been arrested and charged with crimes associated with january 6th insurrection. This includes 404 defendants who have been charged with a faulty, more than 140 Law Enforcement officers. 115 of those defendants have been charged with using a deadly or dangerous weapon or causing a serious physical injury to an officer. So far, 770 defendants have been convicted including 65 defendants who have been convicted of assaulting Law Enforcement officers. Ive had the opportunity to meet with some of the capital Police Officers who were severely injured and still struggle with the events of that horrible day. Yes, they still show great strength and courage and still serve the fourth in order to continue to protect us. I have a series of eries easy questions and ask you to answer yes or no. There has been a direct effort here in this committee and by many republicans to rewrite the violent events that took place here at the capital on january 6th. For example, President Trump called the defendants, and i quote, great patriots. Do you agree with former President Trump that those convicted of january 6 offenses are great patriots . Yes or no, sir. Im here to try and identify. A simple yes or no. Do you believe the people who assaulted your officers are great patriots, yes or no . I feel the people who assaulted my officers with weapons the former president also said the people who assaulted them that they had love in their heart and that it was, quote, a Beautiful Day. Do you believe that it was a Beautiful Day on january 6th in that those people that attacked your officers had love in their heart . It was not a Beautiful Day, maam. Did they have love in their heart while they were attacking your officers, sir . I dont know. Speaker Kevin Mccarthy said, last weeks violent attack on the capital was undemocratic, unamerican, and criminal. Do you agree with Speaker Mccarthy that the attack on the capital was undemocratic, yes or no . I agree that they committed violations of laws do you believe that it was unamerican, sir . I think they are to be held accountable. Do you agree that it was criminal . Yes. Speaker mccarthy also said, some save riots were caused by antifile. There is no evidence of that. Do you agree that the january 6th 2021 riot was not caused by nt for . Yes or no mccarthy also went on to say that former President Trump bears responsibility for attack on congress by mob rioters. He should have immediately denounced the not mob when he saw what was unfolding. Do you agree that former President Trump bears responsibility for the attack . Again, i am here to identify the simple question. Do you agree that the incidents that led the president to push people here this is another question. Do you agree that former President Trump should have immediately denounced the mob when he saw what was unfolding at the capital, yes or no . Minority leader mccarthy continued, quote, these facts require immediate action by President Trump. Except his share of responsibility, and ensure president elect biden is able to successfully begin his term. So, my question of you, mr. Sund, to this day, has former President Trump accepted his share of responsibility or done anything to quell the unrest he cultivated . Theres a lot of people that need to accept some responsibility associated with this. Leader mccarthy said, and i quote, and the president s immediate action also deserves congressional action which is why i think a Factfinding Commission and a censure resolution would be prudent. Unfortunately, it did not last long. He chose to vote against the bipartisan bill negotiated by the ranking republican member of the Homeland Security committee and containing all of his priorities, this is unacceptable and i yield back, mr. Chair. The gentleman from north carolina, mr. Murphy for five minutes. Thank you. I would like to refresh our memories that we were not allowed to pick our own individuals on that committee simply because they didnt like trump. It was a secondary issue. I wish mr. Irving and mr. Singh were here to defend themselves because there is no defense of themselves. Im just going through this. Let me go through a little bit. Theres a lot of conjecture as to the presence of Law Enforcement on january 6. Questions about Law Enforcement being embedded. Plainclothes officers. He was a unable to speak what im learning from the report came out. Are you aware of individuals and the federal government that were wearing results so they could be identified . Not that im aware of. Do you recall an instance in which plainclothes or Undercover Police came onto the grounds without Police Approval . Not that i recall. Its very disheartening to read this narrative of when you asked for help. And they didnt respond because it may have looked bad. None of us in this room are saying what happened on january 6 was correct but i absolutely believe the conditions for that to occur rest at the former speakers lap and the two sergeant at arms are complicit with other in individuals. Its one thing to occur and another thing to create the conditions for it to occur. Esther irving only provided security information to republicans after receiving distinct instructions from democratic leadership. On january 4th, he sent a text asking him to act surprised when irving emailed him and his republican counterpart information about the joint session. Is there anything wrong with that . I want to make sure i understand. Basically, irving asked fleet to act surprised about the information when he was sending it to the republicans. He knew the information before but was withholding it from the minority party. Thats one of the big problems you have with the Capitol Police board and the sergeant at arms. They are too politicized. Did you resign because you wanted to . No, i love the Capitol Police. I love the men and women. I personally believe you were a scapegoat of conditions that were set forth so that you could not succeed at what happened on january 6th was unforgivable but the conditions were set forth by the former speaker and two sergeant at arms for the conditions for that to occur. Absolutely. I dont care if the National Guard were out there. I dont care about optics. I care about safety. Absolutely. A dereliction of duty. The two sergeant at arms. Let me ask one more line of questioning. Pipe bombs, the day before january 6, live pipe bombs were planted outside the republican and democratic headquarters. U. S. Capitol police has not received any insight into the investigation which is astonishing because members of congress on both sides may have been targeted by these bombs. During a hearing, the u. S. Capitol police board, i called on the board to request a briefing from the fbi to the status of this investigation. The board committed to do so. I submit this to the record to verify the quest. Before you resign, can you identify anything about the pipe bomb incident . Other than the rnc and the dnc. I was worried that could be distracting for us and the second one came out and raised a lot of concerns. Your initial comments originally, here we are several years out do you think its acceptable that the fbi still cannot identify the individual who laced the pipe bombs . I find it very surprising knowing the security level we have down here and the resources that can be available. Im very surprised. I find it very surprising and the same thing with the bag of cocaine in the white house. Again, i will say, what happened on january 6th was absolutely wrong but the conditions set forth by the speaker, her administration, and the two sergeant at arms and whoever was complacent with that absolutely allowed you to fail and members of congress to be at risk of injury. Thank you, i yield back. The gentleman yields. I recognize the gentleman from new york for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman and chief for being here. Im disturbed by both the sense that you dont blame the rioters or the president that you blame the Capitol Police and the Capitol Police board and not you, sir. My colleagues. Its like blaming a homeowner when he or she is robbed instead of blaming the intruder. I do want to note one thing too because it sounds awfully partisan and political but i just note, mr. Irving is a sergeant at arms appointed by john weiner and reappointed by speaker ryan. Mr. Singer who has passed away but was appointed by senator mcconnell and the third member of the board which youre not a member of when europe Capitol Police chief. The third one is the architect of the capitol which was at the time mr. Blanton appointed by President Trump. To inject partisanship here is very troubling but we should at least note the obvious that each of the members of the three person board were appointed by republicans, not democrats. But i do want to go back to a couple of things that i think are really important. I do want to talk a little bit about the delay, which i consider unconscionable. Between your call with the pentagon leadership and the ultimate deployment of the National Guard which, as i understood, took over three hours to be able to do. And, that was a request of the secretary of defense. I want to know, chief, do you know now, or did you know at the time, about a memo on january 4th from the secretary of defense to the secretary of the army and a january 5th letter from the secretary of the army to the commanding general of the d. C. National guard . Are you familiar with those memos . I became familiar with them after january 6. Yes, sir. As i read the material, among others, the they were told that the guard could not be issued weapons, helmets, body armor. They could not interact physically with protesters. They could not employ any riot control agents and they could not make arrests and could not make a Quick Reaction force. Is that your understanding now of the correspondence that went on between the secretary of the army and the secretary of defense . Correct. The secretary of defense wrote the first memo january 4th in the secretary of army put the additional restrictions on whats called the url. The Quick Reactionary force to after the fact. You said you did not know leading up to january 6 that those restrictions were in place . That is correct. I assume, at the time, you would have been led to believe that the National Guard was essentially a phone call away if necessary, no . I was under that belief after i requested the National Guard sunday morning the two sergeant arms had me reach out to William Walker instead of authorizing them to say, if we need assistance, could you be ready beyond standby . I talked to them that evening, the third, and took that information back. He said he needs authorization from the he didnt say anything about the memo because it hadnt come out. Nor did he say anything about the restrictions the memo had placed on the deployment of the National Guard, should they be requested . Correct and january 5th i held a meeting with many of the top Law Enforcement officials from around the city including the fbi, and the commanding general for the d. C. National guard, and nothing was said to me, again, on that conference call. That was also the Capitol Police board. You and i unfortunately didnt have a chance to work professionally together but, i do reach out to chief manger from time to time when there are concerns or there are seemingly threats and we have conversations. I assume you did that to predecessors on both sides of the aisle that there would be conversations leading up to you events like january 6, when you knew people would be at least on alert. Is that true . A lot of the times those conversations would go directly to the chief sergeant of arms. The sergeant of arms oftentimes would have recommendations and advice to me to limit my direct communications with members because once i opened the door they cant protect me, so they would so if this subject came up, what im getting at is, so, neither the sergeant of arms nor the architect of the capitol, nor you, were aware that the National Guard had restrictions placed on it. So even while you are waiting for the call for hours, used in you still didnt know those restrictions were in place and that is a big part of this story line. That is correct. I am a stakeholder. When the Police Department becomes overwhelmed and we dial 911 because we need assistance, that goes to the National Guard. It wouldve been great to know that they put up this memo restricting the National Guard from assisting my men and women in advance of january 6, knowing now that they were so concerned about the violence that they were expecting to come on january 6th and no one told me about it . I hate to state the obvious but thats the pentagons department of defense and of the army. No one at that time told you that the National Guard even if they were called up would have severe restrictions. I just wanted to make sure and before i yield back, if i might, unless you would like to call on me another time to enter items into the record without objection, if i could do that now, mr. Chairman. I would entertain that now, but i think you got a good line of questioning here if its okay with the minority and we have so few people here i would be open to doing another round of questions. So, we will do that then. Thank you. I now recognize the gentleman from new york for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Chief, for being here, this afternoon. Thank you for your 30 years of commitment to Law Enforcement. I know that you are well prepared and in incident management and special events, active shooters investigations, i, myself, spent a career in the nypd and know that any time politics gets involved in Law Enforcement, it could be or lead to something very dangerous. Its one of the reasons as to why when i first got here, i still question if the Capitol Police board is the correct oversight management of the Capitol Police. In your book, you noted how Security Issues were usually approached from a political perspective and not based purely on security. What did you mean by that . Oftentimes if we were having a major event coming up, whether a demonstration or a healthcare, immigration, or even one of the spring court nominations, we put together a security plan and the sergeant at arms after this they review the security plan when i would go out and brief what we were going to do if we are going to put in the east of the capital, i would often get pushback. Why you got to block off the capital, why do you have people in hard gear . Things that a commander or chief of police should be able to make those decisions. So you are able to make decisions as a Law Enforcement professional. Your decisions were based on political interference . Oftentimes there would be interference from staffers and members themselves asking a question about why you got to have them. Individuals that have zero experience in Law Enforcement were influencing you on the decisions you had to make in the best interests of this capital . Correct. You also noted that you had to cater to a multitude of bosses. In the lead up and on january 6th, who would you have been referring to in this statement . Mainly the two sergeant arms trying to work things between the two of them. Moving forward, how do we ensure that security decisions are made solely based on Law Enforcement expertise and not on politics . My number one recommendation is, you need to depoliticize the Capitol Police board. Youve got two laws out there and people always bring up, why does leadership get called into things . Its congress that has leadership listed on laws. You have two u. S. Code 1970 and 1974 that both list a review or approval process needed before the Capitol Police can implement those parts of the code. One is special Police Officers. When we brought in outside resources it is a requirement that be approved by leadership. It specifically says the speaker, speaker pro tem and stuff like that. I would take that out and let the Capitol Police board, Police Department, let them be the final authority of what constitutes Law Enforcement actions you are going to take. There is no reason that members of the congress should be involved or listed. All that does is politicized things. Take them out, get a police car thats willing to make the appropriate decisions and allow the chief to make decisions to protect the men and women that are legislators. I know its rare on capitol hill but it seems to make perfect sense. Going to january 6, is it true the National Guard was stationed nearby and could have responded quickly had they been authorized to help by the Capitol Police board . That is correct. They were within eyesight of the capital and one thing i would say real quick, i would have you enter in joint publication 328 from the department of defense, the Emergency Authority of the National Guard response. They can immediately respond. They dont need to wait for anything else. There should be no instructions. That should be looked at closely. You just said the National Guard was in earshot from many were weighted within eyesight with riot gear. Is it also true new Jersey State Police made it to the capital before the National Guard did . That is correct. Any reason . The National Guard is only two miles from our headquarters. Sat and waited for the evening crew to come in while the pentagon was waiting for resources to protect general homes. They sent me nobody to protect my men and women. When were you finally given the green light to bring the National Guard to the capital . To 08 p. M. Over an hour after you originally asked . To 09 p. M. They finally gave me approval. I remember where i was sitting because i screamed to the watch commander, mark the time because i finally got approval to bring the National Guard. Thank you for your service, i yield back. I now recognize myself for five minutes. Since january 6, 2021, have you been asked to testify publicly before committee of the house of representatives . No, sir. Did the january 6 select committee ask you to publicly testify before their committee . No, sir. But you did testify in the senate, correct . Yes, sir. I believe it was february 23rd. It was a combined hearing. I think it was a really good approach. Of how to come in and address it. Initially they did not want anybody that was no longer in position to testify which would have excluded myself. Senate sergeant arms stinger and irving and i went and specifically asked the senate rules committee, let me testify in person. They change the rules and allowed me to show up. So, you had to basically force yourself into even be able to testify before the senate . I had to call somebody i knew and tell them i promise you i will show up in person. I was the only one in person, not on video. You previously testified on january 3, 2021, three days before january 6th. You met separately with how sergeant at arms, paul irving and Senate Sergeant at arms, Michael Stinger and you asked them to approve a request for National Guard assistance on the sixth. This is on january the third, i believe this is in your book that you met with both stinger and irving and requested National Guard assistance to be ready on the sixth. Can you explain what happened in those two meetings . Absolutely. On the morning of the third at 9 24 a. M. I specifically went to see them because i know what a big deal it is to have National Guard come and assist us on the hill. I went into his office, 9 24 in the morning, went up and immediately said i would like to bring in the National Guard to support me and assist me on the perimeter because when we have a joint session of congress it takes a lot of my personnel inside but, as soon as i asked, his First Response was, i dont know. I dont like the optics of that in his second response was, besides, the intelligence doesnt support it. He immediately, we began talking and he said have you reached out to mike stinger on this and i said ive not talked to him about it yet. He said why dont you talk to stinger and see what he has to say . So i left and went over to stingers office and walked into his office and he wasnt there. I came back. He showed up at 11 13 and i showed up at 11 53 to ask him i would like to request the National Guard. He said lets come up with another idea. Do you know somebody at the National Guard . I said i know general William Walker. He said, why dont you call walker and see if we need them, how quickly could they get there and how many people could they send us . I called 6 14 that night. He said they have 125 people assisting with Covid Response and he could reallocate those fairly quickly once he got approval and send them over. When you met with stinger, had irving given him heads up that you are coming to ask for National Guard . Later on, after january 6, specifically on april 8th, i went and had lunch with mike stinger and i asked him, because it was kind of unusual. He came up with that idea so quickly when i was walking in and i asked him, you came up with that response fairly quickly for me to call general walker and you told me paul irving had called him ahead of time and said son came here asking for the National Guard. Weve got to come up with another plan. Pelosi will never go for it. I was floored by him saying that. I know this word optics has come up several times in the past or in different contexts. Do you know if irving had discussed that with stinger of what a possible response would be . No, sir. According to the chiefs transcribed testimony given the select committee, you asked the National Guard to send assistance on that call and he didnt hear the military people respond to your plea. Is that what you remember . No, he heard clearly and say they recommended against my request for the National Guard. Robert immediately butted in and said let me get this right, you are denying the chief of the Capitol Police and, i can go further into that if you want. Are you familiar with the term, data minor . I am familiar, yes. The general was using this tool and reached out to senator angus king morning him about violent rhetoric before january 6th. Intelligence included references to guns and other weapons in d. C. One message said lets burn senator mcconnells house down while he is in it. Another said, we are coming to kill you. Just wait a few days. Did the general ever reach out to you and share these concerns with you about any of this intelligence . No, sir. Do you know if he reached out to either of the sergeant at arms . I have no idea. With this intelligence have helped prepare for january 6 . Absolutely. I do have several other questions but at this time i will recognize the chairman of the full committee, for five minutes. Thank you very much for hosting todays hearing. Thank you, chief sund for being here today. Members of congress are thankful for your Prior Service and commitment to protecting members, staff and visitors. My priority is to depoliticize Capitol Police. I am committed to ensuring the u. S. Capitol police has the tools, resources and leadership it needs to keep our community safe. I also remain committed to supporting our Law Enforcement officers and the work they do each day. Today we are here to discuss the security failures that occurred january 6, 2021, and how we can prevent these failures from occurring again. In your transcribed interview, you mentioned that you met with the house sergeant at arms regarding the National Guard prior to january 6th. Is that correct . And who is the house sergeant at arms leading up to and on january 6th . That would be paul irving. Its appointed by who . Appointed at that time by Speaker Pelosi. You mentioned that when you first got up the National Guard to the house sergeant at arms in the days leading up to january 6, mr. Irving said, quote, he didnt like the optics. And when you went to mr. Irving to get his approval to call in the guard, he said he would run it up the chain. Is that correct quick . When mr. Irving says he has to run it up the chain, what does that mean . I took that to mean his leadership chain. Who would be his leadership chain . He is functionally the most Senior Security official on the house side, correct . That is his title. He would have been referring to the Leadership Team that goes up to Speaker Pelosi. The political Leadership Team meeting elected officials not another security officials. He is the top security official for the house. So running it up the chain is through the Speakers Office and possibly Speaker Pelosi . That would be where it ends, yes. Lets park that there and jump to a second set here. In a press conference on january 7, Speaker Pelosi called for your resignation on national television. She also stated that she had not talked to you since the initial breach of the capital but according to your transcribed interview, you are on the phone with Speaker Pelosi a few times. Can you explain that discrepancy . That is correct. I spoke to Speaker Pelosi three times. That evening. She was on national tv and said i had never spoken to her but i spoke to her three times. Three times were the first time when i went over to brief Vice President pence at the secure location. I called house sergeant of arms, irving and told him i was going over to brief the Vice President and to do a personal assessment of the capital. At that po in getting it back in the chambers and fully aware. And he said he wants it on the phone. He made a phone call from his cell phone approximately 5 34 where i first briefed Speaker Pelosi. The second call when i left the location when i was walking away i met up with mr. Stinger and we talked over to brief the senate when jennifer hemingway, i believe it was jennifer hemingway, it was emily calling and second call with Speaker Pelosi, questioning the information id given to vicepresident pence when we can get back into chambers. I assured her that was correct i could get them back into chamber by 7 p. M. Call number two. Call third call from where the senate sequestered and on a cell phone, dialed leadership off site and i briefed all of leadership plans to get them into chambers, call number three with Speaker Pelosi. You didnt have one call, two calls, three calls, when she said she didnt. And running the chain up the commend, do you think that Speaker Pelosis office or Speaker Pelosi herself politicized capitol security . I have no idea on that, sir. Okay. Any other clarifications youd like to make as relates to Speaker Pelosis comments that you didnt speak to her . I just, you know, wish shed considered that and considered some of the stuff i faced and efforts that i went through to bring in the outside resources on that day before she called for my resignation. Thank you very much for being here, i yield back. The gentleman yields. Now begin our second round of question, yield five minutes to the gentle lady from california. Thank you, chairman. Mr. Sund. I have here a statement from its testimony from paul irving the former sergeant at arms and this is testimony he gave to the senate at a hearing and he states on january 5th, chief sund and i participated in a webbased interagency Conference Calls with multiple Law Enforcement, fbi, mpt, u. S. Secret service, park police and military district of washington among other Law Enforcement agencies from the National Capital region. Based on the intelligence and threat assessment, everyone on the call believed that we were prepared and the plan met the threat. So you were prepared for what you thought would be a typical demonstration, a First Amendment demonstration on capitol hill, such as the womens march, when we all wore our pink hats and came out and marched against some of the efforts of the president. What you did not anticipate, none of you anticipated that a republican member of congress would tell the crowd on stage today is the day, american patriots start taking down names and kicking ass and our ancestors sacrificed their blood, sweat, tears, sometimes their lives, are you willing to do the same. You didnt anticipate that, did you . We anticipated minor swirm skirmish. You didnt expect a member of congress to go on stage or the president s lawyer, rudy giuliani, to tell this mob armed, trial by combat and you didnt anticipate the president of the United States telling an armed mob to march to the capitol and that to start walking to the capitol. You could not have anticipated any of that, did you . Well, knowing now that theres intelligence. And i believe when you say that, sir, because i do not believe that anyone in charge of the men and women that serve us here in the u. S. Congress, if they had known any of that intelligence, would have acted very differently then than we did that day. But i still want you to know that i am greatful for my life, that i am greatful that the officers used their own bodies to protect us, that they bravely fought against these very angry rioters who came here to do violence, to hang the vicepresident. This past weekend the former president has said he would pardon those convicted, the ones convicted, with crimes associated with january 6th, including individuals like enray kay terrio, the leader of the proud boys and convicted of seditious activity and sentenced to prisonment how does that make you feel that the former president talks about pardoning defendants who assaulted your officers during that violent attack and assault on our democracy . Again, i feel if they faulted the officers, they need to pay the consequences. I feel really badly for everything that has happened since the officers, the suicides, no one deserved that. I have here i wanted to really stay focused on who to blame, you know, who is to blame for everything that happened on january 6th and you know, i attended this peaceful transfer of power on this inauguration when this president took the oath to serve his country and to protect, you know, the rule of law and democracy. I also attended by the way, i was not wearing a vest at this ceremony because democrats did not incite a crowd and say those russians that interfere in our election, you know, were at fault for losing. We took the loss and we did the right thing by ensuring that we had a peaceful power of transfer. Unfortunately, when i attended mr. Bidens inauguration i had to wear a vest because i no longer felt safe. With that, i yield back. The gentle lady yields and ill yield to the gentleman from virginia, mr. Griffith, for five minutes. Mr. Sund, you also did not anticipate that you wouldnt get significant intelligence about the threat, isnt that true . That is correct. With the intelligence you would have anticipated that either your own department or other federal agencies would have alerted you to the risk, isnt that true . Like i said this could have been preventible if we had gotten the intelligence that they had. Isnt it also true that you would not have anticipated and did not anticipate that you wouldnt get support from up the chain when you requested the National Guard before and on january 6th, isnt that true . That is correct, sir. And during february, 2021, joint senate hearing, former house sergeant of arms paul irving testified he did not receive a request from you for National Guard assistance until around 2 p. M. Is that accurate . Thats not accurate, sir. When did you ask for it. 1 58 im sorry, 12 58 p. M. Was my first call to paul irving. I was i had a number of people surrounding me that were aware i was calling and he was fully aware of just how bad it was outside because he had his representative to the command center behind me sending him the information of what was happening and i did not get the approval at 12 58 p. M. He still said he was going to run it up the chain. Was going to run it up the chain, 71 minutes to get approval. To get it run up the chain . Yes, sir. And your assumption, although youve testified that you dont know for sure that it went to nancy pelosi, your assumption is that because the sergeant at arms, while elected by the members of the house, is generally put on the ballot by the speaker and serves at the direction of the speaker, so you assumed, as most people would, that it was the speaker that was the top of the chain . Yeah, that was my assumption. Based on the flow chart that im aware of, there is nobody between the sergeant at arms and the speaker. Do you know of somebody in between the two of them . No, sir, i dont. I dont either. All right. Now, you had some phone calls with mr. Irving. Do you have the records of what times you had those phone calls . Yes, sir, i do. Would you please tell them to the committee . Lets see if i dont have them id be happy to submit my phone records, my phone records have all been submitted to the senate. The senate hearing, full accounting of my phone records. Yeah, i dont have the hold on a second, i dont have the exact time, but my recollection is and ive read your book, my recollection you made several calls within a relatively short period of time. It took 71 minutes up the chain. You called three times the first you told us about and then more. No, no, those were calls with Speaker Pelosi, i went over the times, calls with Speaker Pelosi, 12 08, and approval 71 minutes later. 11 calls to the sergeant at arms, asking whats going on. First the question and then whats going on with the request. 11 calls during the roughly hour and 10 minutes. And during that time i was calling every leader of every agencies, gary sls settles Virginia State police. Mutual aid, maryland virginia new Jersey State Police 1 51 p. M. And find out where approval was for the National Guard. Being from virginia, did the Virginia State troopers come to help . Yes, they did. Did they get here before the National Guard . Yes, sir, they did. All right. Uscp fired julie farm as the Interagency Coordination Division when the former director retired, is that correct . Yes, sir. And she testified previously that you wanted to overhaul the department. Is that correct . I wanted to she wanted to overhaul the department . She may have. Im not aware. Okay. All right. So, but did you think at the time, on january 6th, did ng your Intelligence Department was defective. Yes, the intelligence prior to january 6th . Prior to january 6th . Absolutely. They had been effective on any previous nominations we handled a Supreme Court nomination, 100 arrest that was effective intelligence. So they were effective prior po january 6th and you didnt see the cracks in the system until after that. Thats correct, sir. All right, i appreciate your testimony here today and im glad youve been able to correct sop of the misstatements made by others and i yield back. Thank you, sir. The gentleman yields. Chief, Ranking Members, would you be willing to submit the phone records for our records . Certainly, ill have them by the end of the day. And recognize the gentleman from new york, mr. Morelli, for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I do note since there seems to be a fair amount of conversation and speculation about what happened in the conversations between mr. Irving and Speaker Pelosi, why mr. Irving wasnt asked to testify in front of this panel. You could have asked him to come. I assume that you chose not to because its easier to speculate on the conversations rather than asking him to testify and i assume he would have been here to testify, but in any case, since there seems to be a real focus on the one hour that theres a dispute over whether or not authorization was given, i am a little surprised that theres no frustration or concern about the three and a half hours between the time you did place a call and i do understand, sir, you placed the call at 2 30, according to your testimony here, requesting National Guard support. No, so to correct it, i couldnt wait any longer. Id waited so long for the approval from the Capitol Police mr. Irving and mr. Stinger, at 1 51 p. M. I called William Walker without having authority and said please give me anything you have got. This is life or death. I dont have approval from the capitol, but please send me resources. Thats before 2 00 and yet, when did the National Guard show up . 5 40 p. M. The first National Guard showed up approximately 150 and they were sworn in as special Police Officers and deployed, on post 6 p. M. When the Capitol Grounds were secure at that point. So thats over three and a half hours after your request was put in. Yes, sir. And in that earlier i was asking about this and i would just like to get a little more definition on it. So, you didnt know it at the time. When you made the request at 1 50 or so, did you know that when were you made aware that there were restrictions on what the National Guard could do as a result of the memo that had been issue on the 4th on 5th . I dont know the exact date, but it was definitely after january 6th when i started doing research into what happened and thats when i found it. When they showed up at 5 40. So do you have any sense of the three and a half hours that went on . You said, i just want to make sure, you said in an interview, that there was a concern in the administration about the president invoking the insurrection act and concern at the pentagon about him declaring marshal law or activating the military in support of his claims. Do you inspect that that played a role in the pentagons unwillingness to allow the National Guard to respond to the capitol, those hours that was being debated . So when i went back and started doing research for the book i wrote, i started finding a lot of concerns within the president s cabinet about him invoking the insurrection act and that was one of the hypothesis id come up, maybe they were concerned with him invoking it and wanted the delay. Think of it, the secretary of defense has come out and stated in testimony he was not putting National Guard anywhere east the 9th street northwest, which means towards the capitol. Why would that be . I dont know, what do you speculate . I am saying, for some reason they want today do everything they could to keep National Guard away from the capitol. I would wonder why my colleagues arent more concerned about that, three and a half hours while were under siege, a request had been made. Can you describe the period between when you made your call and the National Guard got to the capital. My first call 12 58. Your call 2 00 until 5 40. I would say my office was going through intensive battling on the west front and terrible what theyre going through and no Police Officer deserves to be subjected to that. Some of the worst violence ive seen against Law Enforcement. Let me ask you this. How would the situation differed had the National Guard Quick Reaction deployed soon after your call, which i assume would have been minutes away . If they had followed their Emergency Authority and they had deployed the quick app, we could have had close to 200 National Guardsmen men and women fairly quickly and could have been a game changer. The metro Police Officers 1,000 officers, that would have been a large cadre of officers, we could have used their assistance. Sort of a tragic circumstance, you obviously know about then Police Lieutenant michael byrd and the interaction which ultimately led to the death of Ashley Babbit, a rioter when she broke in. And the attack some of them racist, and a Family Member of Ashley Babbit said that he deserves to swing from the end of a rope. Do you have any comment on that. No comment. Before i yield back, may i ask unanimous consent an article from the following, article washington post, no, trump did not order 10,000 troops to secure the capitol on january 6th. A title from cnn, a claim that Speaker Pelosi was responsible for january 6th. Secretary of defense to the secretary of army, dated january 4th, 2021, restricting activities of the National Guard, a letter from the secretary of the army dated january 5th relating the restrictions. A transcribed interview interview former sarlt sergeant of arms paul irving. And a copy of an amendment to hcon res40, mcgovern expressing gratitude to the Capitol Police. A copy of the vote tally, a tweet by representative matt gaetz, he pledges to hold Speaker Mccarthy to his promise to release the full january 6th tapes. And by matt gaetz demands release from january 6th, for funding the government. And in 2023, renews the request to review all footage requested by the Committee Without objection. Without objection. Now recognize the gentleman from new york for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I just want to make it very clear that i think that all of our colleagues, the republicans have been very concerned about the response of the National Guard, which is why most of us have asked questions about the timing, about the authority, about you getting permission and the fact that you had to get answers from two individuals who clearly were taking dd taking their orders from Speaker Pelosi. So i just want to make that very clear. Just touching quickly on the chamber evacuations, the capitol was breached at 2 12 p. M. The House Chamber did not start evacuating until 2 28. What was the reason for the delay . Im not sure what the reason of the delay was. The evacuation should have been called for earlier. Who would have made that decision. When i was up in the command center, i had two assistant chiefs with me, in charge of operations. I had one member of protection and intelligence protection and one in charge of uniformed operations, either of those could have called it, but it should have been called earlier. And do you know what time the Senate Chamber was evacuated . Im see if i have it in my one second. Im sorry. I dont have that right in front of me right now, sir, sorry. No worries. So ill move onto something else. Yesterday chairman style host add security briefing in this room, brought in the stake holders, Law Enforcement agencies that oversee the washington d. C. Area into one room to talk about the spike in Violent Crime and what we can do better. I think that something that has been a common theme and probably not one that were really proud of, but a common theme that weve all heard is staffing issues when it comes to the Capitol Police. Obviously, i think any Law Enforcement agency around the country right now would agree that the more people in uniform, the better. In your book, you wrote on january 6th, United States Capitol Police would be subjected to the greatest staffing demands on the departments limited resources and that, quote, this would make pulling together the staffing for a large cdu detail even more difficult. What was it specifically about january 6th and the joint session that placed such significant demand on the staffing of your department . Anytime you have a joint session of congress where you have voted the house and senate in session, as well as the vicepresident , theyre holding a joint hearing, its going to take a lot of work and the problem that we have is with the Electoral College when theyre doing the certification, they can likely run into the Early Morning hours so you have to prepare for 24hour staffing for that, so that takes a lot of the resources. You know, weve prepared for, i think it was 223 hard cdu officers as well as officers on the perimeter and thats about the most we can get on the outside, but takes a lot of our staff on the inside, sir. So you spent over three decades in the Law Enforcement arena, public safety, Emergency Management, its all kind of tied in there and someone who spent most of his adult life in the Emergency Management world, one of the questions we always ask ourselves are we better off today than we were when we saw the last event unfold. And my question to you, were better off today, than god forbid if we saw an event like january 6th unfold again . So i continue to be concerned. I know, like you mentioned, i think there was an influx of money coming in that was key for getting some of the equipment and helping out with training, but the officers are still very, very short. Theyre getting overworked, held over and still making training difficult. As far as some of the equipment coming in, yes. As far as some of the politicization, no reason you should have members of congress in approval review category for laws overseeing the Capitol Police. So that needs to be restricted. Let the Capitol Police chief do his job. I agree. Thats number one thing i can say. Leave policing to professionals. Exactly. If they need to be held accountable. I want to clarify something brought up regarding bringing mr. Irving before this committee. It is the attention to bring mr. Irving before the committee in a hearing or a transcribed interview, and if it happens, ask to participate. Thank you very much. I want to go back to your recollections in the trance transcribed interview. He said on phone call noted in his office, which is correct. Can you repeat the question, sir. No, absolutely. Mr. Irving said that on january 6th, the initial statement about the guard occurred on a phone call. You contend that you went into his office to discuss the guard. On january 6th . Yes. No, sir, i was in the command center january 6th, when we came under attack at 12 53 and at 5 p. M. To see the vicepresident and check the capitol. On january 6th mr. Irving said when he called and asked for his permission to ask for the guard he gave you permission. Thats false. If you look at his testimony, for clarification, at 2 00, i think his testimony is before i was saying i might be needing the National Guard. Thats absolutely not true. When i first called at 12 58 i absolutely said we need the guard now. I think my response was i think were getting our asss handed to us, no. And the transcribed interview of the committee, and the transcribed interview of mr. Irving, there seems to be a discrepancy in the timeline of events to when they happened. Can you explain the discrepancies . I think theres problems with recollection. One thing i had, if you think theres discrepancies, congress tried to change to give the chief with my position. I appreciate you being here, mr. Sund, were working to depoliticize is it the Capitol Police, were working to depoliticize the apparatus on capitol hill. I yield back. Thank the Committee Chairman for his questions and being here today. Now recognize myself for five minutes. Just to finish up on the previous question, line of questioning, regarding general milley and his notification to the senate of this particular intelligence, you had stated that he did not notify you. Do you know if general milley notified the Intelligence Division at all of this intelligence . I have no idea, sir. Okay. From what i recall, and i believe it was in your book, you had issued an all hands on deck for officers to be present and on duty on january 6th, is that correct . Thats correct, sir. Do you know, was that order put in place with the Intelligence Division . The Intelligence Division actually, when you say that, the Intelligence Division had twothirds of their personnel working from home that day. So, no, it was not put in place. It only had one Intelligence Analyst to monitor the january 6th events. Even though you issued an all hands on deck, this would have been pippens call, she had nearly 70 of her work force at home. At least of the one unit, intelligence. Yeah, intelligence. So the intelligence, do you know why they chose not to order their people to come to work . No, sir, i have not been able to follow up on that. Very interesting. Are there any preexisting or when you were chief was there any preexisting agreements between the department and the Capitol Police that would allowed p. D. To come on Capitol Grounds without approval from the chief or the police board . Well, youve got to understand, theres a number of thoroughfares through the Capitol Grounds that the metropolitan police patrol, constitution avenue and penn avenue and they have to diverse the capitol when you call the Capitol Grounds regularly. For them to come into one of the buildings, if requires approval and notification to come in. To our research the only directive with the metropolitan Police Department, dates back 10 years, cannot patrol or come into any Capitol Building without explicit approval from the Capitol Police board. You dont know if theres anything that has superceded that . No i dont. I have to say theres a metropolitan washington government mutual aid agreement that i believe exists, but i dont know how that interacts with that. The mutual aid agreement that you enacted, is that that same mutual aid agreement . Yes, sir. Okay. What time did you enact that . I enacted that at approximately 1 51, i called scott boggs over at metropolitan washington government, but realize i called the metropolitan Police Department right at 12 55. We were attacked at 12 53. At 12 55 id called mpd and asked them to send in the resources and id called earlier that morning at 10 55 and asked chief carroll if he could have put more resources. That would have been off capitol ground. It would have been on the edge of the capitol ground. Are you awar that they would put Emergency Services in plain clothes on the grounds . The im sorry, electronic. No, i was not aware of that. We actually have evidence and records indicating plain clothes mpd officers were on capitol ground january 6th, youre saying you werent aware that they would have embedded those officers within the crowd. He did not make you aware of it . No, sir, ne they did not make me aware of that. No, i was not aware they were on Capitol Grounds. Some of what they provided to us, camera footage, body cam footage, there were agents on the ground and encouraging some of the protesters to enter the capitol. I would assume that you would think that that was uncalled for or unprofessional . I havent seen that. If it turned out to be a Police Officer involvement, that would be inappropriate. When did you come on as acting chief . I know it was 2017, what month . January, beginning the first week of january. So you were acting chief at the time someone crazed by political rhetoric came on the baseball field which i was on and began shooting at members of congress, republican members. Yes, sir. That afteraction report. Do you remember that afteraction report. Yes, i do. Two Capitol Police officers involved in that and as i remember it was a pretty significantly large afteraction report, is that right. Id have to remember, that was crystal greiner and bailey involved in that substantial as with an involved in that and other afteraction. Have you seen the Capitol Police afteraction report on january 6th. The 27 pages, yes, sir. Are you surprised its only 27 pages long . How many officers were here that day. I called in 17 00 officers, as well as there was a total of 18, lets see im sorry, our total 1457, a little over 3,000, 3200 officers. I would have expected a much larger afteraction. I was involved in the navy yard as an Incident Commander there. The afteraction was at least three times that length. Thats what amazes me, that this afteraction report of the capitol or the baseball shooting with two officers involved, 15 or 16 members of congress received this comprehensive afteraction report, but the january 6th afteraction report literally is just a handful of pages and its very sketchy. Who was responsible for that afteraction report . I dont remember the exact date that it was published. I dont know if that would have been the acting chief pitman or the new chief major. I think it was acting chief pitman. Finally, this will be my last question. I appreciate you being here with us and being so vigilant. You have mentioned earlier in response to a question about minority that there should be others that are held accountable to this. Who else do you believe that should be held accountable. When i talk about Holding People accountable, i think, you know, youre dealing with a morale issue right now on the Police Department. Thats one of the big issues you face when you talk to the officers and i agree with representative torres. These were heroic officers and working hard all the time and i appreciate that. But theres a morale issue and part that have goes to the fact that people havent been held accountable. You know, failures have been identified and people have been left in certain positions that should be identified as contributing to some of the issues we had that day. Contrasting that, there are individuals who, i believe you even mentioned this in your book, that acted above and beyond the call of duty and above and beyond their position who were actually terminated from the Capitol Police and there were many whistle blowers who were retaliated against and thats exactly what were trying to get at here. We thank you for spending time with us today. Thank you for your service. Its been exemplary. And you had the ability to step away and go in obscurity like some here that day have, but you chose to stand up and see that justice is done and that more importantly, that we do correct the wrongs and we secure this capitol. It is not the intention, as has been mentioned several times, for this committee to rewrite history. History is there. Violence was done. We want to get to the book, the truth, how there was a secure failure at this capitol so we can ensure that it never happens again. Members of the subcommittee might have questions for you. We ask that you please respond in writing. Without objection each member five legislative days to insert material into the record or revise and extend their remarks. If there is no further business, i thank the members for their participation. Without objection, the subcommittee stands adjourned. 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Cspan now your front row seat to washington, anytime anywhere. And now President Biden honors the outgoing chair of the joint chiefs of staff, general mark milley at a ceremony in arlington, virginia. It also includes general milleys farewell remarks. [applause]
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