Transcripts For CSPAN2 The 20240704

Thank you so much for that, wendy. Please thank our panel for. Let s im going to do so in alphabetical order. So it probably will not relattoh they speak. So first, jake Jake Friefeld is the new director of center for lincoln studies at the university of illinois springfield. Earlier, he was illinois an resh historian at the Abraham Lincoln president ial library and museum, and he is the latest addition, a contingent of of Springfield Young scholars who have begun coming to forum. And were delighted that they here and that theyre participating. His recent book is first migrants how homesteaders quest for land and freedom heralded americas great migration. Who was here for the second time is the director of abraham president ial library and museum in springfield for years he taught histo. The university of arkansas. Hes the author of manual mental. Oscar dunn and his radical fight inas published. In 2021. John c is a professor of history atto61nell college. Hes the author of lincoln and reconstruction, which came out in 2013 for the cq press. Concise lincoln series, which has just won the lincoln forums wendy allen for its accomplishment in so many memorable brief lincoln volumes over the. Edited, i should say, just a little advertisement by johns amazing wife sylvia rodrigue. His latest book is freedoms crescent the civil war and the destruction of slavery in the Lower Mississippi valley. So now, jake bryan and john, please take away. Thank you, harold. Thank you, everybody, for being here. Its a great honor to be able to speak at this form in the organization. This panel, with my two esteemed colleagues. I will be speaking for about 5 minutes to try to give an overall sense of what im doing in this book, even though its 500 pages. So i guess thats about hundred pages per minute is i have. So ill just give you an overview and ts way that will lead to a general conversation on this topic. Okay. As the subtitle suggests it indicates, its the civil war and the destruction of slavery in the Lower Mississippi valley. And so in essence, what this book is, its study of emancipation and the the missisi valley. And what i mean by that are the four states from this area that seceded and joined the confederacy. So arkansas, tennessee, louisiana and mississippi. It does take into account the border states of missouri and kentucky asorder to understand whats going on in area. But theyre not essential to the story. I should also note that im focusing on plantation and slavery areas of this region. And im taking you know, tennessee is a is a weirdly configured state. Right. But its west tennessee thats really part of the of the plantation slavery society, though. It is to look at the state level developments. Okay. And so what im trying to do in this book is to bring into a coherent narrative the military story, the Major Political developments, particularly in louisiana, tennessee and arkansas. Theres never really a unionist movementer in mississippi and then also in washington, d. C. , and with the national. And then its alsohat that has been done on basically the on the ground destruction of slavery by the slaves themselves. And which ive also contributed in part of in my own work to this, to this scholarly revolution. So its an attempt to pull all of this together into a single on thi region. And i dont think this audience needs to be reminded of the importance of the mississippi river. Right. And this area to american and to the the confederacy, the outcome of the civil war. And i would suggest to the outcome of the destruction of slavery there indeed a vast literature on all aspects of this area of military wartime, the destrtion of slavery. And so but this is the first book really to pull all of this together. Theres no other single book that looks at this vitally important geopolitical area as as an entity. So thats you an overall description. Now, in a way, theres two central themes in so far as my book has an argument and ill try be as brief as possible with those. Of all this area includes what i would call all five dimensions of wartime emancipation and ■abolition. And im going to run through them very quickly. Okay. So you dont have to necessarily try to follow, but first, firstly, we have what we would limibefore emancipation proclamn by union troops as they gained territory. So thats under the sec, the the confiscation and various other measures. And this was supposed to make, for instance, distinguish between loyal and disloyal slaveholders. Okay. Secondly, we have what we would call universal military under the emancipation proclamation. Now, when i say universal, i dont mean everywhere the United States. I mean everyersignated areas, states and thereof. Right. But this made no distinction between loyal and disloyal slaveholders. Right. And so thats the second part or the second dimension. Thirdly, we have from the proclamation, as we know, all of tennessee is excluded the proclamation. And also louisiana, new orleans and the surrounding. And this is a concession to wartime unionists in those areas were organizing loyal governments. Fourthly we have state level abolition arkansas in early 1860 for the first state to do so. Louisiana later on in 1864. And then tennessee in early 1865. Under wartime reconstruction by unionists. Right. So we have state level abolition and fifthly, we have federal abolition under under civilian authority. And this happens under Andrew Johnsons reconstruct asian program. And then, of course, the 15th amendment, which is ratified in december of 1865. And i should that my book is basically going from lincolns election in november of 1860. So for almost exactly years later. And so it ends with ratification of the of the 13th amendment in 1865. The other second thing that im trying to do in this book is, is to somethi here have to try to e brief. And i promise ill try to offer something of a revision in on the standard storyes a war to preserve the union to, a war for freedom. Right. And we all know this, all familiar with this. And its been invok man times in the sessions that weve had in the last of days. But let me suggest here that, you know, for all of that, theres no question that the emancipation proclamio transfore moments, not just in the civil war, but in all of american history. But i think historians, justifiably so focus on the emancipation proclamation, the process by which lincoln came to the proclamation, and all of the factors are involved there. But to the point where where the abolition abolition almost an afterthought, and i think some historians sometimes even use that term that almost logistics. But ifou think it it took a year and a half to get to the emancipation proclamation but then it takes three years to get from the proclamation and to the final ratification of of the of the amendment. And many people said, you know, slavery is dead after the proclamation is issued, assuming northern military victory. Slavery is dead. Many people said that at the time. Many historian is. Repeat it. But what i found is that many people at the time were also vitally aware of the limitations of the proclamation. We know that thats a familiar story. Right. But heres the problem. Its how were you to get the states back in, right. With without while ensuring slavery is is going to abolished right. To ens states come back to the union with free state. Now, lets imagine for a moment theres no 13th amendment. Now we can do that right because that was the reality before the 13th amendment. There was no 13th amendment. But we offer we also assume that the 13th amendment was part of the plan. All even before the war. And so we draw a Straight Line from the emancipation proclamation to 13th amendment. But no, he was thinking in abon amendment that would be imposed upon the states against their will, even abolitionists before the war. Always thasl would be would be abolished by the states. That was that was standard 1 to 1 thinking of slavery and the union and the constitution. Exceptions. But even radical even the the abolitionist argued that it would be the states that would have that would abolish slavery not the national governmea,nt. And this mentality exists into the war. And for the first few first couple of years during the war right and the amendment nintrol december of 1863. And then, as we know, even thats a very complicated story and many people did not believe that this was going to work out. So so that like thats the right. How do you get the seceded states into the union ensuring eventually become part of the equation. But i was. But originally it was thought to be part of of of of a reconstruction bill, reconstruction legistiwhich woue mechanisms by which the seceded states would come back into the union. So im suggesting its not simply a saight line. Again, the emancipation proclamation, to the to the abolition of slavery and then to complicated even further in louisiana tennessee an, arkansas, you also have pro slavery unionists who are trying to organize loyal governments while preserving slavery. Deres a contest, particularly in louisiana and tennessee, between free and proslavery unionists. Right. And so lincolns got to figure out how to work this problem out. The short is you have to read my book to see to see how this actually happens. Right. And we can talk about that a little bit more in the q a. But thats the question that im dealing with in this book. In addition, looking at the xities of this in this particular region, its also true addressed this larger question how we get from military emancipation to constitutionalll note before ending. Im not in any way trying to suggest, particularly with this crowd, that the emancipation proclamations important or the black contribution there. Ive been part of this this this historiographical revolution, and im the last who would make that argument . But what im trying to suggest here is maybe an a more realistic understanding of the limitations of the on the ground process ofncipation that we in a way, in order to really be complete the destruction of slavery had to be institutional of government. Right and ultimately it was that as well as the actions of the slaves is real politics and the political process and institutions that were essential to the ending of slavery. So my my story is really just kind of like it at reconstruct. Right. Because im ending with the ending of slavery 65 and then im going to pass mic over to my esteemed colleague Brian Mitchell whos going to speak a little bit more about the reconstruction period per se. Good afternoon. My name is Brian Mitchell and im the author of monumental oscar and this radical fight and reconstruct in louisiana. Im going to ask you guys to raise your hands if youve ever heard of james done. Okay. Okay. Most of you didnt raise your hands like me. Most of you grew in the shadow of the los cause im. A native of new orleans, louisiana. And being in the shadow of the lost cause means quite literally. Ive immersed in new orleans history and immersed in the past since the day i was born. You can go very few steps before you tumble into monument and most of those monuments were dedicate it to confederate or worse still, white supremacist. I saw nothing that resembled myself in the citys fabric. I saw a new monument to black. I saw a new monument to even slaves. Even though new orleans had been one of the nations largest slave markets in 1976, i returned to my place of prayer at the city that i love and began going to second grade. Every i would come home from second grade and id go to my great grandmothers house. She was born in 1895 and was the granddaughter of a white planter. My grandmother would tell me stories and these stories wrapped around reconstruction. Her husband, a man by the name of emanuel dunn, had been the nephew of oscar, the great nephew of oscar. James and and i had heard nothing of this in school at all. And in fact, in 1976, when i ■mreturned, it was the bicentennial year. Very happily i went to my second grade class and we were studying the internal■2 workings of state government. The teacher asked, if anyone could recall the names of any governors, the Lieutenant Governors beside the governor that was sitting at the time. I proudly raised my hand shaking back and forth to second graders. Do and when i was called upon and i declared Oscar James Dunn been our nations First Lieutenant governor, our nations first black Lieutenant Governor, and our nations first black governor. The teacher, shed never heard of him. And in fact, she once i told her that hefricanamerican, that that could not have been true. I replied that by saying, no, youre■x wrong. In fact, there have been three of them. I was promptly sent to the principals office. I went home to my great grandmother in tears. Why did you lie to me . She. Why did tell that . Dunn was all made up . And she replied, its not made up. Its just that hes forgotten. Its at that point, the historian in me was born. Its in instant. And that. That i came to be. And i searching. Monumental. Initially he was my dissertation. And i had a fantastic i had an array of fantastic professors. A man by the name of raphael kazimir. Hes emeritus now at the of new orleans. Things thats really important between about our connection, he was the very first africanamerican male that i ever had as a teacher ever in my life until my freshman yearhn me, and he was the first person that knew anything about donne. So got through high School Without ever hearing dunn, without ever hearing, without ever hearing salazar. That history just forgotten. And louisiana schools. When i began working on my dissertation, he discouraged me. He said, theres not a lot there, bryan. I dont know if youll be able to pull a dissertation together. There are only three existing articles on him, and i believe that the longest of which was only 20 pages. But i was dedicated this cause and i went out pursuing time, which meant that i had to look atves and it was all primary research. But i was able to reconstruct time finding things dissolvingme place where i believe he rightfully belongs for africanamericans donne is very much like Abraham Lincoln. He starts off enslaved a gets th his stepfather a free black who had migrated from petersburg, virginia to the city of new orleans, working as a stage carpenter for the great ames henry caldwell, the man who would bring American Theater to, new orleans and through james dunn that he is elevated and becomes. He remembers and honors james harden adopting his middle and last so he had had just the name oscar when he was enslaved but he becomes Oscar James Dunn in ■utribute to this man who was responsible for his freedom. He rises, becomes a plaster, then becoming the grand mason. So he becomes a free mason in the city of new orl. The appoind black official in the nation. A of people ask a lot of people who knhe dissertation as why didnt you do a traditional book. Why did you do a graphic history . And this is the first reconstruction graphic history that was done. I quite late into writing my dissertation that has a dashboard and this computer dashboard tells you where your book is being downloaded. So theres a big map and you can actually see the download and. Theyre just dots on a map. But one day i was sitting in my offi and, i received a phone call. The phone call was from a middle School Student outside of cleveland and. He was on the phone with his father and he said, id like to thank you. Id like to thank you for writing this dissertation. And im like why are you reading a dissertation in middle school . And you never believe that students are your stuff. So you quiz them. And what did you like about the book . Who were your favorite characters . Who did hate . And he sat there for an hour with, his father, and told me all about the book. I was so taken aback by this that i asked himstudents your an history . And he said, well, you know, your book is so relevant to now with the polarization that im seeing in the nation things that are going on. The threats of violence. Hes like, its really right now and its his suggestiothat i do it as a graphic novel is why came out as a graphic novel. Im sure some point. Yes. So later additional will out in and itil fledge book for academy. But i thought it was to write for children who are like me that didnt see themselves in the books that they were being given at school. The history of reconstruction they didnt know the men who were there. So. So id like with th, to pass on the mic to jacob friefeld. Thank john. Thank you, brian. Im going to time myself or else ylle going to dinner after im done. As harold said. My book is first migrants with the wonderful rick edwards. Our subtitle, which you tried to make longer. We werent able to. How black homesteaders quest for land and freedom. Heralded americas great ti ink the best for me to describe the book is to sort of start at the beginning over 300 black kentuckians in a crowded train station in lexington. They were looking to board a train for the holding, their children, all of their worldly possessions. Some had livestock in tow. Shouting out to them, trying to get them to ride on their line, lowering their prices after waiting for hours. Their train. Finally left. They had to switched trains. Mes along the journey, unloading goods, reloading them on to the new train at each stop. All of t land, kansas. Now that should spark a couple questions for your family. Why . Why are these 300 folks going to kansas . Well, there are push and pull factors going on here. Right. These folks these folks experienced what john was talking about they experienced the hard work of emancipation the excitement of the jubilee afterncromise of reconstruction by 1877. A lot of that had turned to ashen anguish and. The biggest frustration or one of the largest frustrations was the failure of land reform that the million acres that had been confiscated from, confederate traitors, had been given back to them by lincolns worst decision. Andrew johnson. And so land reform failed in the south. And thats a part of the push factor and the pull■ factor is the homestead act, which lincoln signed 1862, which offered americans and, immigrantsey woue citizens of 160 acres of land if they stayed on it for five years or ahead of a household and made improvements on the land and for those that dont think in acres, thats like 120 nfl football fields of land for free. The government was away and that is the pull factor. These folks in this kentucky train station said, well,f we cant get land out here, were going to go west. And its not just land. Its the ability to create a■ community where you what you say goes right without the unremitting violence and author southerners. And so they go to kansas when arrive they were that thered be already a town built for them. There was no town. The first group that gets there, they Start Building sod houses where they were told theres plenty of timber, which if youve ever driven through kansas and these foe coming from kentucky right there, kansas, you know theres not a bunch of timber. And one of my favorite stories is willie on a hickman. Shes on the group that goes in nicodemus. And she hadnt been feeling well on the trip. Shes in a wagon because the train station is still 20 miles off from and she starts hearing her husband and the other men whipping and celebrating and she said, well, whats going on . And she remembers and she says, i looked with all the eyes i had and said, where is nicodemus . And they were pointing to sod homes. So theyre half dug in the hills with sod bricks and with smoke out of chimneys. And they said there is nicodemus. And she said she wept but they stayed. And nicodemus ends up becoming the largest black homesteader site in the great plains with over 13,000 acres of land claimed. But theyre not the only ones theyre joined by. Tens of thousands more black americans who found places like empire, wyoming. Black them, new mexico. vthey they theyre about big business. Theyre like a kingdom of black people. Black out of new mexico, empire, wyoming. Dinwiddie nebraska mht that impressive until you hear they change the name later to audacious audacious this is the book tells the story these tens of thousands of people who are both a prelude to the great migration that happens when the lucrative action is in American Cities when you can go to and get wage in northern cities here its those 120 football fields ofget for free from the government. It also unites to parts of the lincoln legacy that legacy of emancipation emancipation proclamation, which went into effect january 1863 and free land policy, the homestead act, which went into effectone, 1863. Part of that revolution of the 37th congress in Abraham Lincoln and also changes the way we thinabouwe settlement and who settled the great plains in this country. And i think it grew out not exactly the same as my first book on homesteading and the Homestead National park contact. I mean said you know the story v we tell the park about homestead is a pretty white story and we know that are folks who are not white that homesteaded or were immigrants from the norwegian and could you look into that and its like yes and a thought was oh, this is going to be an article. And then, oh, no, there are tens of thousands of folks in the plains alone. This doesnt even consider the western part of the United States, but i think i can stop there. And then we can have a discussion or open it up to questions. If there are questions already, we can bng the microphone out. Oh, theres already question. All right. We were good reserves. 30 minutes for questions. I think we. Have a very practical question. I think professor roderick may came closest to it. So im a slave, a plantation, like you say, in western tennessee. Suddenly we get the the owner is gone. Theyve they fled or whatever the overseer is gone. Here we are, 100, 200 slaves. How how do we live . Where is the food coming from . Theres no cash. Were in a were in a cash society. The Freedmens Bureau hasnt been created yet. Theres no union forces around. Are we going to starve to death . What happened . How did the people. Well, you know, i mean, dont want to sound like im ducking the question but i mean, your your question speaks to the though, that the certainly the the enslaved had their own resources. They knew they knew how a plantation operated. They they could do that was necessary to do. And there were some instances in which the slave holders did skedaddle and. They were growing they werent growing food crops. Im sorry, were they growing crops in addition to theou know, in a way, yes. But not to say that they would completely reject crops either. But were getting way, way ahead of the story mean because i mean, this will take months and years to play itself out. The union army will eventually show. And usually whats happened is theyre liberated with the arrival of the union army and. Then then we have the whole problem of military sponsored free labor, right where the Union Officials are basically s, and theyre trying to institute a new labor system. And as you can imagine, its an incredibly chaotic i should note, this is what this situation is part of this historiographical revolution that this book just basically builds upon. This stuff has been been done ss and then even 100 years. Dubois and black scholars were attending to this so that aspect of book is not new. Thats what im incorporating the stuff that we already, you know, in that we already know. But it was certainly a chaotic process and everybody has all different kinds of assumptions about what this new system will look like, even if there is ■] and that was not necessarily a done deal because, of course, the north had to win the war and even winning the war was not necessarily going toou that tht answer that i could give to a very complicated question. Thank you. Thank brian. And i was really moved by what you said your god bless your grandma mother quite great grandmother what what quite a person and you know we all had teachers who had huge influences on our lives growing up and i think what youre describing is a lack of role models who looked like you can do you know whether the situation has improved for children growing up in the south today. To say it has, but unfortunately we of recent■n we taken a huge step backwards. This identification of everything socalled crt the attack on ethnic the attack on difficult histories or hard histories that is south where my states, particularly southern states, maintain immunities law. Parents are encouraged that in many of these states to personally sue teachers who teag these narratives that are really, really important. Imagine being in a majority minority school, public school. And being told that you cant e the histories of the people that you are teaching to in their instruction. Imagine the imct that has on those children if they never hear a positive word about the narrative that i was was that africanamericans came over as slaves. Nobody really mean to them. They just treated them like children and. Then all of a sudden, because of the benevolence they let them go one day. It made no sense to me in seconh grade, fifth grade, sixth grade. Made no sense. Our children arent stupid. They understand vacuums. I have students that come to me when i, a professor from the suburbs, say, why do all the and why are they living into decaying cause of cities . Why dont they all pick up and move out without knowing the histories of redlining witho knowing the histories of slum clearance . So can we accurately depict our nation to our children if were r willing to take that hard look at ourselves and the role that we played in making the landscape of the United States. So one of the things that id love to do and im hoping and some point in a future year to do many, many more graphic histories that tackle difficult topics so children■■o can understand what has happening in the United States. How did you end up in a racially concentrated area of, povertyha. Exit entirely to anyone. What happened . I write a lot about the land dispossession in arkansas. I was the first and only state to kick out its entire free black populion. And theres never been a book written on it. I spent a year tracking a thousand people who were kicked out to figure out where they went. Im to work on a text now. But how do you tell that story . Why hasnt it already been told . It is a fantastic story. How do you kick out a whole states worth of people and and those scholars do study africanamericans will really that those people were kicked out were mainly women and they were mainly women for one specific reasonwife or you could free your daughter and that would ensure that every child that was born from that woman would be so how do you tell this narrative . And these are why we really have to as academics, start in education, not just being taught within the academy. The information were passing on to each other. But but what are we doing for the children. Just had something onto that. One of the most Amazing Things to mecrossreference the star databases of folks who were kicked out of arkansas with black homesteaders like theres going to be the start of a great project right were going have several people, no matches, i still cant believe it. Its just a quick question. Who were the chief of reconstruction, planning or theory before theoclamation . I know lincoln was talking about, but somebody had to be thinking or were they just acting out . What do i know this will be very, very brief. You know, the question of quote unquote,ion goes to the secession crisis, really. I mean, because its about reunite the union. One of the themes of my book is o from what what i would call state restoration, a very limited notion, getting the states back with real fundamental changes. Andthinking. And most in congress and probably most people in the north, how we get from that to reconstruction is part of the story. But every session of congress, just about every session of tried to deal and enact some kind of reconruction legislation write a bill that would put that would dictate how the states would come back all of the practical that would have to be dealt with even aside from the question of slavery the practical issues that would have to be dealt with. Right. Because as we know, the conundrum of reconstruction is the states never they do in reality left, right. So you have to have some kind of some kind of legislation to say whats whos ing arge, whos goe allowed to vote . What are we going to do with the confederate debts, etc. , etc. . So and they the only time they do that is, of course, with the famous wade davis bill. And they going go any further. But the one bill in 1864 and lincoln pocket vetoes that and i could about that for anlly doese interesting issues the question of reconstruction had been around from very beginning and every session of congress to deal with it. But infighting republicans themselves as to what this is going to look like. The democrats are able to exploit in congress are able to exploit the divisions amongst republico and think about this theres no reconstruction bill passed until radical reconstruction in 1867. Thats when settlement to the war two years later. I end here thats what were getting into here and ive done my own work on you on postwar reconstruction. So i felt like i was of, you kn the the prehistory of the previous work that ive done that was a longer question answer than i had to provide. But dingd you want speak to it or. Yes, wed have a couple. Okay. And i was going to say that the reconstruction it depends on what you mean by he was saying. 1866 is a pivotal year. 1866, there will be two massive riots that will take place. Theyre actually but people like to call violence. That was by whites riots and not massacres. The first is in memphis and the second it takes place in the city. New were organized, involved, hundreds of white perpetrators. Many of the perpetrators did so with the guidance of elected ficial Police Officers and. Many were former confederates. And this was a cause for alarm. Could we go back . Could the civil war restart . And thats when the decision really madecontrol of all of th, these former states replace their leadership with people who lo to, the republican cause and under that climate that done becomes an appointed official first to e cicouncil ae junior council, he is one of two africanamerican men that are selected for that post. But this is happening throughout south at the same time, just one very quick follow, one very quick follow up. The epilog of my book, just the epilog. I deal with the new orleans and memphis and how perfect is it in a w that you know the two cities at either end of the Lower Mississippi are so crucial to the you know to to reconstruction the proximate cause the riot in may was black soldiers and the proximate cause in new was black suffrage. The two most explosive issues that face country that the black soldiers who were serving the army of occupation. And the question black suffrage. Right so its its no accident. Its no coincidence that these were the two issues that set off this racial violence in these two cities in. This, you know, in in the Lower Mississippi valley. Youve been waiting for a while, man. Good afternoon. I want to go back to the second grade. Doctor and ask, did your teacher or the principal ever, could you them day . And answering that question, did they ever receive their education . Did they ever accept any valid of what you said coming from your great grandmother . Is personal oral history . You know, i ge that question a lot. Theyre like, hey, did you see your second grade teacher first . I wouldnt her. And then s maybe 60 at the time. So oh i i doubt that shed be alive. Id love that if she were and she could say look it wasnt my fault i was just regurgitating what id taught in my entire life. And then we could have a broader discussion of the continuity of dunning scholars and law schools narrative. But no, i haven i havent even n invited back to the school that i was. And i always prominently talk about the school and and pchthr been invited back to one of the things thats really fun is i do visit classrooms around the country most othe time, zoom and, the publisher created, a foundation which helps provide copies of the book to schools who cant afford to publish it to purchase the books pythemselves. Question about what happened after longstreet lost the battle in the center of new orleans. They had to send sheridan in. How did that occupy asian out . Think they they held the lid on for a while, but obviously the inevitable happened when. The troops pulledut. But how did the occupation transpire, if i may ask . Well, there are a couple of things that we have to talk about and versus the election of 1872 and that lection is highly disputed, both parties maintain that they won. Democrats maintain that they won in and the republicans that they run and instead one of them 9h them had their own offices and they may they were two separate governments in louisiana at the same time. So there was a gernor jenner and and then a governor kellogg and both of them maintain that they were the rightful governor, the earliest sort of play out, violent play out of this reaction happened easter morning right before they were supposed to install the new gover parish. Blacks got wind that the democrats were going to go and claim the co s and they decide were going go out in number and protect our county seat because we won. We were the majority in this county. They were not prepared for. What happened . They there and there were hundreds of former confederates with of rifles and cannon and they get the county seat lay lay siege to the county seat. And when the blacks surrender, theyre taken and theyre executed as many as 150 africanamericans died that■7 d. And things would get worse from that point on. River there would be a similar massacre culminating war would take place in the city of new orleans. A couple of years that culminat0 former confederates now gathered the banner of the white to the w orleans. And youre quite correct, they will take the city of new orleans and hold the city of new orleans. And this is one of the effects that is one of the unknown effects of donnes death. Donne was always a moderating upport of both the republican and democratic camps. He was seen as a moderate in thatt want blacks to join white institutions. He didnt want an integrated free black masons. He realized that was the source, their power. That was the place they organize. He said, can build anything they nessus hourly need to join their clubs or go do theaters. Well just build our own and you lose thisg voice. Everything devolves into violence violence. Just a quick follow. Microphone but the episode that brian talks about is known as the colfax massacre. Of course, in apriof the colfax massacre. And theres been some very good books on the column, the facts massacre, and it is the single most violent episode, all of reconstruction in terms of the number black fatalities, we dont know the exact number, but its 150 is probably a conservative estimate. I dont think its i dont think its any coincidence that the federal military Red River Campaign in the spring of 1864, led by nathaniel banks, is a disaster. It is a catastrophe in northwest louisiana. It can claim to be un vanquished during the civil war and i dont think its any coincidence that this area that claims to be un vanquished winds up being one of the most violent places in the entire south during reconstruction. And thats saying a lot right the violence and reconstruct action so the evidence, the events that bryan is talking about are part of this larger this larger scio violence thats prevailing in louisiana, and particularly in in in northwestern louisiana. And this takes me back because a previous life, i started writing a book on 1872 election in louisiana, but its kind of unfinished business. So. Well, sheridan came in and actually established martial law as, i recall, in new orleans, and then they had to hand it back, though they, basically had to give up and well, i was wondt occupation went very short and that was it. I mean, but what what what thats the battle what is no comes to known as the battle to replace and then theres a monument, you know, to the great victory over you know, and the great victory White Supremacy at the Liberty Place was Liberty Place demonstrated that the republicans could not even control new orleans, which was the capital and their hombase without federal troops. And the north is not going to stomach federal indefinitely. So the writing clearly on the wall with Liberty Place. Right that this is this isto la. Ill follow up segway in federal Ulysses Grant the vote in the wake of emancipation and the the decision to stay as long as they out its like hell continue to break loose that didnt seem to be any stays of systems to assure any of social anything. So you take on grant after and emancipate. Knowledge knowledge. Okay. All right. Yeah. You know, the traditional story has been that grants record is bad on reconstruction, but ron chernows book biography of grant that came out a few years i he wasnt you know, he wasnt trying to make excuses for grant, but he i think he kind of rebuilt hated grant a little bit in. Grants commitment to black rights. And i think he i think hes right you know in that grant really did take this seriously but but] you the 1870s there is there there is so much against this, right. That even, you know, even grant is having trouble negotiating and grant had his problems. Lets face. And i dont mean the alcoholics. I mean politically. Right. He wasnt terribly astute in and so he did he did have his issues, you know, as president. But i think chernow, i think does a really good job of showing that grant. You know, him, by africanamericans, but he was just overwhelmed and and he traces this back to war. The the transformation that grant during the war on on including black soldiers in the effort. So he sees that as part of grants genuine and and so i think it is an interesting take on on grant himself because the again the traditional view was that grant was pretty much inept and his reconstruction was just a complete fiasco and a failure. And it is its as always, more complicated than that. In thepring 1869, dunn make a fateful trip and trip is important for a number of reasons. First, junket that ever happens, and its followed by newspapers all over the country. It starts in new orleans and it starts at the Great Northern railroad. A lot of students ask me, well, what happened to pgti, you know, pierre, beauregard immediately following the war, king becomes the president , the Great Northern railroad. So dunn shows up and he wants buy a first class ticket and he wants to go up to the inaugurate toes grant. And hes allowed to buy a first class ticket, but hes told you cant, right . In a first classch, you have to ride in the , which meant that you had to sit up. There were no sleeper cars. So this is the Lieutenant Governor of theaw state state. When he gets off in kentucky, hes not to go inside of an omnibus. another white republican senator. And by the name of lynch and, hes tmyoull either have to ride at the top of the car with the driver and that was called the perch and or you can walk. So he hires his own carriage. By this point hes made a lot of money for himself hires his own carrge take them across the river and its until he gets in ohio that hes allowed to have first class accommodations that he will make it to washington in d. C. And he had called ahead the night the lieutenant g stay in the willard. But when he arrived at the willard is very surprised at what they see this african man. So they tell him you welcome to sign the guestbook but you cannot stay in the hotel. Grant will actually dunn and grant and dunn will develop a relationship and when grant goes when dunn goes on to battle the governor henry clay warmers for control of the Republican Party grant will side with dunn and the dunn faction. One of the most interesting and surprisingf primary sources i found was a letter in ulysses says ulysses ss grant. Grants letterbox what was interesting about this is there was a letter with her actually talking about the potential for dunn to be a running if grant could a second term later like if dunn can hold the blacks together potential for him to be a running for Vice President of the United States and this is taking think about when this place its hard to have a discussion today about a black running in the United States, but there this discussion and 70 so yes dunn Ulysses Grant support it dunn and heuprt the dunn faction of the Republican Party the radical faction of the Republican Party in louisnae quick thing, warmth. Governor and grant had a history because warmth had been in the military during the vicksburg crisis. Of absent without leave. Grant tried to have him cashiered which would have like ruined any postwar career dunn warmth goes to the white houavee audiences and gets reinstated. So there is blood between warmth he hates grant you can you can tell. And so it just fits perfectly. Yes. Thats great. Uction i was going to say, since were this is being recorded for posterity we probably have time for one more question that i dont want to speak with for all of our guys, but all happy to stick around and talk with more now when we hard stop at because i was told to do jake what happened to these bck homesteading families how long did they last their. So most of these communities they last until as you might expect the dustbowl great depression. And so a lot of the interpretation around these communities that existed was that they had failed like they went out and they didnt make it. I talked to a lot of descendants when writing this book of black homesteaders and their take is completely different. Like no, they were never these communities werent meant to last. They were meant g the south. They meant to get us to where we can govern ourselves or could educate the next generation. And we knew there probably werent going to be eligible ■og marriage partners out in the sort of smaller communities. Were hundreds of football fields apart. And so we my parents knew that generation probably wasnt going to stay out on the farm. They their to educate them to go elsewhere. And in that way they were esses so yeah, most of them do last and peak sort of a lot of them peak right before i mean a dry final crash for most of them but yeah but i mean the descendants of the homesteaders go and have great careers in cities that might not been possible for them elsewhere. The one exception beinlly county, south dakota. Theres still folks, the magruder family on land was homesteaded by their family. And right next to the book on my shelf at work, i have a gift from one of them, a gruters, a nail. One of the homes that was built on homesteaded land. And thats a treasure of mine. But now there are successful. Maybe a way we dont think about success. I think we. I think we fit one more question and we got a few minutes. Yeah, yeah. See your hand down here. You know . Hey, gentlemen. Thank you so much. Im a public schoolteacher, thankfully, in the great state of new jersey, next door. How has the book been received, mr. As far as a graphic novel, i recently bought a graphic novel for the first time and its very different from most of the books i have mhow it could be accessi. So i it came out a couple of years ago, so im just to know how it was received in the it was wellreceived. I think were up about nine book awards. So i did very, very well. A lot of them national awards. The one im most proud of is the louisiana award, which is my hometown, and thats a huge award. Their for for its been more inl then at it sparked the publ■rication this book coincidd with the removal of confederate monuments Mitch Landrieu and mitch and i are friends so hes visited my classrooms and spoken about the removal. It also a discourse about public space and public art and who controls that space and what should be there. ■ honor. Dunn most of you who have been to new orleans have probably know exactly where is. Overlooking Jackson Square where the big jackson and the French Quarter on the top of that levee is, a park called washington battery park. Now, washington battery had been a confederate that defended the city, new orleans, from farragut. However, its been renamed in honor of dunn, the state Legislature Also voted to put a statue up and a wrecked a bus in the state capitol. So ill be there for both of those. I visit classrooms there regularly. In fact, be teaching workshop this summer for educators thats being put on by the louisiana endowment of the arts and ill also be talking at the historic new orleans collection at the ted with ted williamsnd richardsons. Whats the arm of the new orleans collection . Williams library, i think, is whats caright on wall street. So fantastic. Its the discourse about around black history has totally been transformed after this. So im very, very happy to be a little factor in that opeople s now their school named in his honor which is fantastic for that lit■tl that little sliver of american history. One final question because the audience may not know this. Could you just speak very brieflh . Because the controversy about it i mean, in 1870,blican party han by that point, henry clay warner, thetes Republican Party, had largely turned against. The bolters factionfaction was. And they were moving to impeach warmth, which would have made dunn outright governor of the state of louisiana on the eve of this vote, after banquet. Prompting of his supporters to maintain that he been poisoned by. His would receive honors throughout state. All the states offices were closed. All the citys offices were closed. And the largest funeral procession in the citys history would be held in honor of some maintaining that as as 50,000 people participated. His funeral procession, black and white. Thank you. Well, thank you all for your questions. And joining us today for our friends at cspan, were going to honor the hard stomping. Id like to thank my panelists, john and brian, for first sitting up here with me. I learned a lot and were happy. Stay around and talk with you. Thank. I cant think of a better way