To learn about its history. Learn more about omaha and other stops on our to her at cspan. Org. You are watching American History tv, all weekend, every weekend, on cspan3. American history tv you cheering cspans original series first ladies influence and image. Cspan produced the series in cooperation with the White House Historical association. Through conversations with experts, video tours of historic sites, and questions from cspan audience we help tell the story of americas 45 first ladies. Next, lucy hayes, on first ladies influence an image. This is about an hour and a half. It is so unfair to her. Its such a dismissive, almost condescending title, because it suggests that shes sort of his bluestocking whose sole function in life was to not serve alcohol. Lucy hayes is so much more, as is her husband, frankly. And, remember, everything she accomplished in the white house, we should consider, came in spite of the fact that her husbands legitimacy to be president was questioned right until the day he left office. She was a charming person very delightful. She was innovative with the arts. Ms. Weininger one of our more controversial collections is the white house china. Journalists of the day wrote scathing articles. One said that the art was absurd. Whos going to want to be eating this lovely meal and see a duck at the bottom of their plate . She took an active interest in Public Affairs from an early age. She had a College Degree, and she had taught. Ms. Weininger two causes that were very important to her were veterans and soldiers and also orphans, children who had been made orphans as a result of the civil war. She combined all of these roles. Thats the interesting thing. She manages to be a very devout mother. She doesnt neglect her children. But she also embraces the life of her times. Ms. Swain lucy hayes wrote, womens minds are as strong as mans, equal in all things and superior in some. Born in 1831 in chillicothe, ohio, she was the first first lady to earn a College Degree and her life tells us much about the times in which she lived experiencing the civil war reconstruction, and the gilded age, and into a period where Technological Innovations and significant social forces usher in an era of enormous change in the United States. Good evening and welcome to cspans continuing series on the biographies of americas first ladies. Tonight youll learn about lucy webb hayes, the wife of the 19th president , rutherford b. Hayes. And here to start us off is allida black, who is a first ladies historian and she is the author of the first ladies of the United States of america a collection of biographies published by the White House Historical association. Allida black, welcome. And 1876, this country is joyously celebrating its 100th centennial of the declaration of independence, and its an election year. And the election is greatly contested with no clear victor. Tell us about the atmosphere with which the hayeses arrive at the white house. What was it like . Ms. Black well, susan, its pretty schizophrenic, i mean, to tell you the truth. Weve just come out of the you know, the centennial celebration. And theyre coming to the white house, but they dont even know if theyre actually going to move into the white house, because the election is not yet decided. Whats happened is, is that samuel b. Tilden and rutherford b. Hayes were in at that point one of the closest elections in the United States. And tilden wins the popular vote, but there are three states where the vote is so tight that the parties are tackling each other, you know, each each the republicans are saying we won, the democrats said, no, we won. So hayes goes to bed and thinks hes lost. And he gets up the next morning and he finds out that the republicans are challenging the vote in three states, and if they actually win those three states, he gets the number of electoral votes he needs to become president. Well, you know, they go through all these negotiations back and forth. Theres congress is involved. Theyre trying to cut all these back deals. But literally its not decided until he arrives in washington when the deals are finally set. So when theyre you can only imagine sort of you know, the schizophrenia, the joy, the fear, the disappointment everything that you feel as youre on this train coming to washington. Ms. Swain and so worried were the hayeses about the possibility of a democratic coup, the inaugural day was a sunday, and so there was a private swearingin at the white house, correct . Ms. Black absolutely. And then he gave his inaugural address on monday the next day absolutely. But the country itself is still very unsettled. I mean, the civil war even though its been over for 12 years is very much in peoples minds, because its such an intensely personal war. I mean, everybodys been affected by it. And now youre trying to figure out, how are you going to end reconstruction . For hayes, its how do you end reconstruction and try to stay true to your principles . For the democrats, its, you know, how can we hold his feet to the fire to get rid of the troops that are down there and give us back our land and our customs . And plus, youve got all of this technological revolution. Its, you know, the telephone just gets premiered in philadelphia. You have the typewriter. You know, youve got all of these new kinds of engines that are being done. You have labor unrest. You have Great Railroad strikes. You have a recession. Its got everything. Its really sort of the first major depression that we have. So the countrys trying to figure out whats going on just as much as the hayeses are trying to figure out whats going on. Ms. Swain so rutherford b. Hayes and lucy hayes come to the white house with a great deal of government experience at this point. He had been threeterm governor of ohio whod served in congress, very popular governor of ohio. What do they do to establish their credibility when they get to washington . Ms. Black well, they just their personalities take over, and they began to try to, you know, acknowledge the fact that the election is really controversial. They know that hes being called your fraudulency. He knows that, you know, hes being called rutherford fraud hayes. And so what he does with his inaugural address is really set the tone for this. He makes overtures to the democrats. He opens the white house up. They begin to really try to engage in a public conversation and tackle the issues that sort of tarnished the Republican Party, if you will. I mean, the corruption of the Grant Administration, when he says hes going to do Civil Service reform, you know, when he really pledges to pull the remaining troops out of the south, assuming that the governors that the governments in new orleans and columbia will honor their commitment to black rights. So hes trying to really extend an olive branch to people to say, im addressing your concerns, i hear you, and im only going to serve one term, so lets figure out how we can make the most of this together. Ms. Swain and how did lucy hayes assist him in this effort . Ms. Black well, she was very shrewd with him all the way along. I mean, she understood how politics worked. She understood how to entertain. She understood how to facilitate conversations between people that were difficult. She understood how to really bring people at the table in a way that would advance her husbands career. She was charming. You know, everybody liked her, you know, despite the, you know, the noalcohol edict in the white house. So she was able to grease the skids for him in a way that made him seem approachable and ethical and blunt. Ms. Swain we have mentioned that she was the first first lady to have a College Degree, but this is a time of enormous change for women. At the philadelphia bicentennial fair, the worlds fair, all kinds of new devices laborsaving devices were being introduced for the home, the hoover vacuum cleaner ms. Black absolutely. Ms. Swain early washing machines, and women were beginning to take advantage of this by beginning to move into the workforce. So how is lucy hayes is she seen a symbol for this kind of woman and her approach to the job . Ms. Black well, i really dont think so, because i think its very easy to overstate the importance of the new laborsaving devices and how many women went into the workforce. I mean, the women who are in the workforce already have to work. And the women who really entered the workforce by their own volition and by their own interests really are the generation after her. So when she comes in the white house, only 5 of women who work are working in what we would consider today whitecollar jobs, like sales and stenographers and secretaries and, you know, professors and educators. I mean, its still very, very close. Shes on the cusp of that. I mean, what shes really to me, the thing thats really interesting about her is how shes sort of stuck in the middle. And in a way, that doesnt make her stuck. I mean, i know that sounds weird, but, you know, the Suffrage Movement is totally divided along the lines of race and whether women can vote or not. And lucy hayes is, you know, the first collegeeducated first lady. Shes nursed and stood with surgeons during the civil war. Shes seen more wounds, more battles, more scars, more amputees, more suffering than probably any first lady, other than Mary Todd Lincoln. But yet, you know, shes not an avantgarde reformer. She is trying to find her own voice, and so its hard to put her in a pigeonhole. Ms. Swain Gary Robinson on twitter asks, how did washington look upon lucy, especially after julia grants presence . Ms. Black well, thats tricky. I mean, because, you know, when she washington looks on her as you know, askance with temperance issues. But, you know, they also look at her as lovely and vivacious and happy and congenial, and then she does, shall we say eccentric, but gorgeous china, and the press goes, you know insane over it, writing, you know, as your credits opened about how difficult it is to eat food and maybe even see a quail in the middle of your plate. Ms. Swain so you mentioned the press. Are we at a point in history where the press is independently covering the first ladies and they become an object of National Interest . Ms. Black yes, the press really is taken with her. I mean, they call her they use the title first lady more for her, you know, than they have for anybody, even though it was referenced to Mary Todd Lincoln. But they really you know, they like her. They cover her. They see her as vivacious. They see her as somebody whos different. Theyre fascinated that she went to college. I mean, so they really do follow her in her own right. Ms. Swain throughout our program tonight, were going to be taking you to the hayes home in fremont, ohio. Its called spiegel grove. You see a picture of it on your screen right now. This is the home where Lucy Rutherford and their family, which was a large family, lived before the white house years and this president ial home library and museum there all help to inform visitors as to what the first lady and the first family were all about. Our first segment takes us inside the home to learn about lucy hayes as a political partner to rutherford b. Hayes and about some of the causes that were important to her throughout her adult life. Lets watch. Ms. Weininger this is a painting that shows lucy tending to a wounded soldier during the civil war. Two causes that were very important to her were veterans and soldiers, and also orphans children who had been made orphans as a result of the civil war. This painting was created to hang in an orphanage here in ohio of which she was very supportive. So it kind of reflects those two issues that were important to her. When People Associated with those causes would come here to spiegel grove and visit, they would sit here in this formal parlor. Spiegel grove was host to a number of reunions of civil war veterans. The 23rd ovi was the unit that rutherford served in. Future president mckinley was a member of the 23rd ovi, so he and his family were frequent guests here. And veterans groups were always welcome here at spiegel grove. And when they would gather here on the grounds, when they would come into sit and talk, they would sit in this formal parlor. Lucy was such a wonderful hostess. She wanted people to feel very very welcome here, and so this is where they would sit this is where they would discuss the issues of the day. The hayeses would have hosted a number of political figures here for dinner, including future president s taft and mckinley also William Tecumseh sherman was a guest for dinner, as well as a number of other local and National Political figures. So as a political partner with her husband, entertaining these political figures and serving in that role of hostess at these dinners would have been incredibly important. Ms. Swain and joining us on our set now another guest, Tom Culbertson. Mr. Culbertson is director emeritus of the rutherford b. Hayes president ial center, where spiegel grove is also open to the public, spent 24 years of his professional life helping america preserve the history of the hayes presidency. We heard from allida black about the great political partnership, but your comments about the skills that she brought to this job as she entered the white house . Mr. Cullbertson well, she was a partner to rutherford. She was a sounding board for him. She was a gracious hostess, as allida said. She was able to engage people oneonone and to make anybody that she talked with think that they were the only person in the room and the only person that she really wanted to talk with. Ms. Swain now, the contested election didnt end after they were sworn in, and there was a congressional inquiry. We have one of the quotes one of many quotes from her that we want to show tonight, and heres one where she said, sometimes i feel a little worried this press and annoyance going, but i keep myself outwardly very calm, but inwardly there is a burning venom and wrath all under a smiling or pleasant exterior. What do we learn about her from that quote . Mr. Cullbertson well, we learn that shes very defensive of her husband and his image and that she does have a little bit of anger in her. But ms. Swain it sounds like a good politician in her own right . Mr. Cullbertson yes, she was a very good politician. Ms. Swain able to mask the inner wrath for the public presentation. Mr. Cullbertson yes, yes, right, yes. Ms. Black one of my favorite things about that is that shows her passion and her ability sort of to hold it in is, at the end of the civil war, she was just furious that everybody started talking about reconciliation and forgiveness. You know, and she was saying mercy is one thing, but we have to have justice and mercy, which just shows her. Ms. Swain i would like to invite you, as we do each week to be a participant in our program, and there are several ways you can do that. First of all, in a few minutes well be going to your phone calls. If you leave in the eastern and central time zones 2025853880. If you live out west, mountain and pacific time zones, or farther west, 2025853881. You can also send us a question or comment by twitter. Please use the hashtag firstladies. And you can go to our Facebook Page on cspan. Theres already a discussion underway about lucy hayes, and you can join that by asking questions or posting comments. Well mix many of those in throughout our 90 minutes together. Now, to illustrate what kind of a person she is, she had a lifelong interest after helping her husband at the civil war front and civil war veterans. Youve got a story to tell about an old veteran who came to the white house. Mr. Cullbertson yes, in 1879, an old 1812 soldier came to the white house to receive an honor, and hes supposed to have his picture taken. When he arrived, his uniform came separately and he was distraught that the sergeants stripes were not on the uniform. So lucy went and grabbed her sewing kit, sat down on the floor, sewed on the epaulets and the british minister came in, saw the first lady of the United States sitting on the floor ms. Swain at the white house. Mr. Cullbertson at the white house, sewing on this gentlemans rank. Ms. Swain which is how we learned this story, i would imagine. Mr. Cullbertson right. Ms. Swain hes the one that told it of the first lady. Mr. Cullbertson he did. Yes, it was not her. Ms. Swain so its important for us to move on for a bit, lucy hayes and the Temperance Movement happening in the United States. Now, first of all, today we often see the expression or nickname lemonade lucy. Was she known at the time by that name . Ms. Black no, not at all. I mean, in fact, tom and i were talking earlier, we dont even know what we cant even find where the reference first appeared. Its been but its one of those things thats just become apocryphal about her. I mean, i think one of the things thats you know, thats interesting about lucy is that she, you know, supports temperance, but never really affiliates with the womans Christian Temperance Union, who was you know, which was founded in ohio, her home state, by people that lived, you know within two hours drive from her. And theyre always trying to coopt her. So she comes to this from her mothers father, her maternal grandfather, who was a member of the state legislature, who really made her sign a pledge when she was young not to drink alcohol. And that just sort of carried over with her, but she was never really a carrie nationtype follower of the Temperance Movement. Ms. Swain so dave murdock asking on twitter, what prompted lucy to ban alcohol from the white house . Was it religious in nature . I want to parse that. First of all, did she ban alcohol from the white house . Mr. Cullbertson actually, no. Her husband made the decision to ban alcohol from the white house. And it was a decision partly political he wanted to keep the republicans within the party who were defecting to the Pro