Susan swain Caroline Scott harrison was born in 1832 in oxford, ohio, where she met Benjamin Harrison. Married when she was 21, she grew into an accomplished artist, interested in womens issues. Although the harrison presidency has been rated as fairly unsuccessful by some historians, those who track first ladies consider Caroline Harrison as one of the more underrated to serve in this role. Well learn why in this segment of first ladies influence and image. And here to tell us more about the story of Caroline Harrison are two guests who know the office well. Edi mayo, first ladies historian, the director emeritus of that enormously popular first ladies exhibit at the smithsonian. Edi, thanks for coming back. Edith mayo thank you. Susan swain and bill seale, white house historian, has spent his professional career understanding the history of that building. Among his books is the president s house. Bill and edi are both members of cspans Academic Advisory Committee for this series. And, dr. Seale, were going to start with an illustration tonight. Id like to the white house itself is one of the most iconic buildings in the world, i think youll agree. William seale certainly, yeah. Susan swain if Caroline Harrison had had her way, it would look very different today. And we have an illustration from your book of her designs for the white house that wed like to show people at home right now. What were her plans . What was she trying to do with this big expansion of the white house . William seale well, it was a time of big spending in his administration. The government was spending a lot of money. And she got into it by wanting to create a house they were crammed in this house. They only lived upstairs. You see, to understand that on the picture, the middle of the upper picture, the columns and just the floor windows to each side of it, the office was on the left, the east room was just below that, and the other public rooms on the ground floor. Then the other end, the west end or the right side, was the family quarters, which were seven rooms, that was all, and a bathandahalf. And she wanted Something Big to live in, but something also to entertain in, because the harrisons entertained all the time. And so she had this plan done, which you see here. Youre looking at the south or the back part of the white house with the round porch where president truman later built a balcony. The center part is the old white house, built finished in the turn of the century, 18th century, and the white house is on a bank about 17 feet up from on one side, its one story, twostory house. Its a threestory house walk out on the back, about 17 feet i guess. And so what you see here was a quadrangle with the greenhouses that they had had, which are really specimen conservatories orchids and things like that. You see, thats dropped. So the windows would still have the beautiful view of the potomac. It would not have been an enclosed area. On the right side was to be, as i recall, the National Gallery or the National Museum it was not one and then other public rooms on the other side. And the second floor then had guest rooms, family quarters and such as that to make it a much more livable house, as well as the office. Susan swain looks a bit like some of the grand houses of europe. Okay, this is going to brand me as a traditionalist, but are you happy she wasnt successful . William seale well, yes, i am from our point of view. It was basically Theodore Roosevelt who insisted that it be restored. Susan swain edi mayo, whats interesting about the story, though, is that this woman came into the white house not being seen as political, but she had an innate sense of how to lobby for this. Edith mayo yes, she did. Susan swain she was, in fact, successful in getting it passed the senate. So tell the story of how she put together that Winning Coalition for the senate. Edith mayo well, she went about lobbying through her entertaining in the first place, but she also called in the press and showed them the plans and got their you know, got them to sign on that this was really a good idea. And, of course, they were in the white house at the centennial of the presidency, so she thought this would be a wonderful plan as a memorial for the 100th anniversary. And the nation had grown in land and in power and she wanted a residence that reflected the global power of the United States. So this was a perfect opportunity. So she called in the press. She got a lot of major people in washington interested. She lobbied the senate. She lobbied the house. And i will let bill tell why it failed. Susan swain before we do that she also enlisted the help of a former first lady. Edith mayo yes, harriet lane. She brought her in, and she also used the name of George Washington and how this would be, you know, a fitting memorial and so forth. William seale he had built the house, and she was just making it work. Edith mayo right. Thats right. Susan swain and hadnt washington also envisioned that it could have been added on as he did to mount vernon . William seale yes, he did, in years to come. And susan swain so she won the senate, but in the house she ran into a formidable foe, which was the speaker reed. William seale speaker tom reed from maine. He was a great adversary of Benjamin Harrison. They fought a lot over bills. And Leland Stanford of california was mrs. Harrisons great ally. And he spent the night sleeping in the cloak room hoping the act of appropriation would go through, but speaker reed, looking he was a very razortongued kind of sharp guy, and he cooked up this story that harrison had dared to appoint a postmaster in maine without his approval and he crashed the whole thing. He wouldnt let it come up. Susan swain so lacking her ability to expand the white house, she turned to restoring what she already had. William seale she redecorated thinking and hoping it was a minor thing to do, and she became interested in the Historic House and began researching the attics and so forth and pulling out antiques and stuff and putting in the different rooms. And she had a decorator in boston made things spiffy. See, tiffany had been the last one to do the rooms. And they were very rundown, the special effects and all that nobody could reproduce. Susan swain well, when she got to the attic of the white house, she didnt just find Old Furniture that had been stored. And heres a quote of what else she discovered in the white house. This is from her diary, and well be using quotes from her very prolific diary throughout our program tonight. The rats have nearly taken the building, so it has become necessary to get a man with ferrets to drive them out. They have become so numerous and so bold that they get up on the table in the upper hall, and one got up on mr. Halfords bed. Tell me the story of the rats in the white house. Edith mayo well, washington has a very prolific and wellknown rat community, so they had infested the white house and were both in the basement and, i guess, also in the attic. William seale attic, yeah. Edith mayo and so apparently the man with the ferrets was brought in to help reduce the rat population, but there was also a man with a gun, i think William Seale with a pistol yeah. Edith mayo who was shooting the rats whenever he saw them. So William Seale he would proceed her through the attic. Now, strangely enough, the attic had no access to it. When the elevator was put into the white house, the little back stair that lincoln made famous was taken out and the elevator was put in there. And so you had stair access to two floors, so they had to go in a ladder up above the elevator. And she went, the little tiny woman, she went up there with this guard with a gun, and they began pulling things out of boxes, and a rat would appear, and hed shoot it. And they were big ones, too. Susan swain hed shoot, shed scream. William seale shed scream right. Susan swain is how the story goes. Well, we would like to invite you to participate. This series, which has been really learning so much and i hope you are, too, this is our next to last for season one, and wed love to have your comments and your participation and question tonight. You can do it three ways. You can call us, and our phone numbers in the eastern and central time zones 2025853880. If you live out west, mountain and pacific or beyond, 2025853881. Make sure you dial that 202 area code. And if you would like, you can also join our social community. Our Facebook Page already has some comments coming in. And you can tweet us, but if you do, use the hashtag firstladies, and well mix some of your comments and questions in our discussion tonight. Well, as she approached the white house, she was criticized by the press for being overly domestic. Edith mayo thats correct. Susan swain what was the view of the changing first lady that it would be criticized to be domestic . Edith mayo i think they thought that doing actual housework, which was what was rumored rather than, you know, looking for historical treasures and trying to find trying to salvage the history of the white house and the presidency, it was looked at as she was, you know actually engaging in housework and maybe her cooking their own meals. And this was seen as very much beneath the dignity of a first lady. But one of the things that she mirrors in the time is the growing Home Economics movement, which organized itself around 1890. And so she was very much a part of her times in anticipating what was thought to be the professionalization of housework. So instead of being praised for what she did, she was criticized. And she could not fathom why there was all this, you know scorn and mocking and so forth in the press of what she was doing in the white house, but i think people didnt quite understand what she was trying to accomplish. William seale but, you know edi, i would have thought washington is hard on first ladies, even a little hard on mrs. Obama. They are until they sort of prove themselves. And she had been around he had been in the senate, theyd been in washington many times. Edith mayo right, in the senate. Shed been a senate wife. William seale she was a popular woman in washington socially. But when she got in the house, it was a little different, and she was hurt edith mayo different viewpoint. She was very hurt, i think, by the criticism. Susan swain and what we learned from Frances Cleveland is that the press went into a frenzy over there was the it was the booming age of newspapers. There was coverage in magazines. So the press was prepared to cover this first lady and werent happy with what they were seeing. Heres one quote, again, from her diary. She wrote about the press, i am disgusted with newspapers and reporters. Truth is a characteristic entirely unknown to them, a sentiment we might hear from president s today . Edith mayo sounds very modern doesnt it . William seale it does, doesnt it . Edith mayo very modern. Plus, she was following this absolutely gorgeous young woman, so that must have been very, very difficult. William seale and a clever young woman, a very clever woman, young and with a husband who had no use for pr, and people flocked around Frances Cleveland. Edith mayo well, frances was the sort of Jacquelyn Kennedy of her age. She was quite beautiful William Seale about 10 years younger than ms. Kennedy was when she went to the white house. Edith mayo yeah, she was 10 years younger than jackie was when jacquelyn entered the white house, and so she was very, very popular. And, of course, there was this whole thing about this maydecember romance that had taken place with the president and much speculation before he actually married that maybe he was courting her mother. And then there was the sort of the bombshell when it was announced that, no, he was courting the young and beautiful frances. William seale didnt he say why are they attaching me to that old lady . Susan swain so we have the beautiful Frances Cleveland and then the harrisons who came in who were grandparents by the time they arrived. William seale yeah. Edith mayo right. Right. And she was a matronly woman by that age. William seale she was a beautiful woman, as you can see from the picture, but she was not Frances Cleveland frankie, as she was known in the press, but just to tell a story about how clever she was you may have had it on the susan swain not too much, because she got her due last week, so short story. William seale okay. Princess eulalia of spain is the first real state, visitor of state the United States. She was the same age as ms. Cleveland. Well, there was a reception at the white house, and princess eulalia, who was a pretty, pretty woman, wore pearls clear to the floor and diamonds and a diamond tiara and bracelets and all that stuff, just perfect for royalty, you know . And mrs. Cleveland wore an offwhite silk dress with a Little Antique lace at the top white camellia, and her wedding band. And it was a coup. She stole the show, yeah. Susan swain so Benjamin Harrison, our 23rd president and he was a republican. Cleveland was a democrat. And were going to learn a little bit more about the politics and some of the policies of his administration. But we talked about the fact that well be hearing quotes or reading quotes from her diary throughout this 90 minutes, and dave murdock on twitter asks knowing how important the presidency had become, did caroline expect her diary to be made public someday . Were going to answer that question about her diaries by visiting the Harrison House. It is in indianapolis, and if you get to the capital city of indiana, you can visit it yourself. Its still open for tours. Were going to visit there for the first time and learn more about the diaries. Jennifer capps so you have Caroline Harrisons white house diary. This is something that we dont have out very often. She kept the diary, and you can see very fragile, so shes written in the front here, keeping the diary and the dates, 1889 to 91 for this one. And in the diary, she mentioned several different things. She mentions going to Arlington Cemetery and decorating the soldiers gravesite at arlington. She mentions riding with benjamin to the soldiers home and hospital. You know, some of the things that were very near and dear to her here were working with orphan asylum and with the hospitals, and she continued to do some of that while she was in washington, as well, visiting the hospitals and whatnot there, as well. But she also mentioned some of the other events and things that are going on in her diary. Her artistic abilities, i think, come through again and love of flowers, so she mentioned making having the floral arrangements for several different banquets and dinners. One was the panamerican conference of all the north and south american countries coming together, meeting there. She mentions doing the decorations there for that, as well. And this was a dinner at the arlington in washington, d. C. , and you can see the table setting at quite a large group. We have the Vice President , the president , and where the different delegations were sitting at that particular dinner. She also talks a lot about the centennial celebration in new york for the centennial of George Washingtons inauguration from 1789 to, of course, harrison in 1889, so things from the banquets and whatnot here. One of the parades was sevenandahalf hours long that she mentions in her dairy. And then also, very personal and familyrelated things mentioned in the diary, as well. Shell mention how shes feeling, what the weather is like. But one of the things that she talks about is the christening of their young granddaughter Mary Lodge Mckee, and she says that they use water from the river jordan that her sister had brought back from a trip over there. And we actually have some of that water in our collection here today, so a little container here, actually have, you know, some water in there, as well as well, and a bottle with the label there from the river jordan that her sister had brought back. And Mary Lodge Mckee was christened in the blue room of the white house in a very private family ceremony at that time. And she also mentions christmas at the white house and having the tree put out for the grandchildren, and the harrisons actually had the first decorated Christmas Tree in the white house. And she mentioned some of the gifts that were given to her at that time, including some opera glasses. So we have actually her little opera glasses here that were given to her as a Christmas Gift that she mentions in the diary as well. Susan swain so the answer to that viewers question is, it looked like she very much intended for these to be public documents. William seale but you never know. You know, a person can get if she had started much earlier, a person can get so absorbed in a dairy, it almost becomes like a confidante or a friend to write. I dont know whether she did or not. She didnt do other things like that, selfpromotional or showing her you know, she and the president both suffered from depression. And it eventually had an impact on her health. But they fought that together very hard. Susan swain by keeping busy. William seale by keeping busy. Susan swain Bethany Johnson on twitter asks the question, how many children had benjamin and Caroline Harrison had . They had two, but as they mentioned, they were older when they came to the white house. William seale they had lost one. Edith mayo two who lived. William seale a little girl they lost