Transcripts For CSPAN3 Vietnam War - Lessons Learned Ignore

Veterans, as you exit the theater, National Archives staff and volunteers will treat each of you with a lapel pin. United states of america vietnam war commemoration, the lapel pin is the nations lasting memento of thanks. Tonights program is one in a series of conveyance we are presenting in conjunction with our new exhibit, remembering vietnam, which just opened upstairs. Exhibition of the and him or featuring analysis ,nd of the vietnam war featuring analysis and newly discovered iconic original film footage and artifacts that illuminate 12 critical episodes in the war that divided the peoples of the United States and vietnam. Onembering vietnam draws National Archives records for all parts of our agency. President ial library, still photography, sound recordings, electronic records. The title of the exhibit, remembering vietnam was inspired by a quote, all wars are fought twice, the first on a battlefield, the second time in memory. Artifacts we display help us sort through the lessons of the war, but those lessons are also formed by memory. I look forward to stimulating discussion. Its my pleasure to welcome peter white line to the stage. As the, he served officer of the former members of congress. With theirt citizens representative government. He plans and directs all policies and initiatives for the association, represents them in the community, and serves as its spokesperson to the public, in media, and the public. Two degrees from Pennsylvania State university, attended law school in berlin, and completed his studies at the Catholic University of america. [applause] peter thank you for the introduction, and thank you all for joining us tonight for this discussion. I realized on the only thing standing between you and the outstanding panel we assembled. I do want to get in a quick word on the association and the work we do. We bring together, under the fmc umbrella, a Bipartisan Group of former senators and representatives who Work Together on a wide variety of projects. Our mission includes strengthening the work of the a nt congress by deepening the understanding of our democratic system by focusing on Civic Education and encouraging public service. You can find much more information on our website, usafmc. Org. Ofights panel is an example fmcs work on issues that affect our nation and democracy. The vietnam era profoundly impacted our nations psyche. The tremendous exhibit that opened a week ago here at the National Archives as well as the 10 part can burns documentary thataired last month, made abundantly clear. Tonight, we want to explore some of the impacts. We want to take a look at lessons we have learned, lessons we should have learned. We also want to compare the challenges we faced in the nation as a nation in the 1960s and 1970s, and compare 50 years later. We have an excellent panel. Unfortunately, secretary chuck schedule changed erstminute but curt bau changed his schedule to be with us tonight. Please welcome our panel and please hold your applause until all of them have joined me on stage. Moderating this important conversation will be leonard steinhorn, professor of communications in history at politicalniversity, a analyst for cbs news radio, as well as a political commentator for several news outlets. Americanoks examining politics and culture, with a specific focus on the 1960s and race relations. Jones is a former member of congress from oklahoma and the former ambassador to mexico during the clinton administration. Ow serves as chairman of on usingr focuses sports to help wounded veterans in their rehab. Ive known him for years. Robinson is an awardwinning architect that has served for many years on the director of the memorial fund, which develops and maintains the incredibly moving and powerful Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall on the national mall. Last, but certainly not least, bob carr, a former member of congress from michigan who came to congress in the watergate class, and who was named to the committee when the involvement in Southeast Asia started to wind down. He now teaches politics and government at George Washington university. With that, lets welcome a great panel with a round of applause. [applause] leonard thank you all for being here tonight. I appreciate the involvement in the community of ideas, the opportunity to speak about something important in all of our lives and also our history. A special thanks to the National Archives for hosting such an important conversation and doing what we need more of in our society, which is conversations about the past and how they translate to the present, how we yearsense of our lives ago and how they connect to today. Our topic is the vietnam war. Anyone who lived in the 1960s knows that this is a topic that reverberates. Its a flashpoint in every one of our lives. Its a war that divided our country, eroded trust in institutions and individuals. Its a war that arguably setinated culture wars and apart some of the populism we see today. It is a war that arguably undercut Lyndon Johnsons Great Society and helped us split apart new deal liberalism, which had been the postwar consensus of that era. Its a war that sort of magnifying the role of the media. For some, the media became a hero in for others, the media became a villain. In a lot of ways, it shook up americas image in the world. Perhaps more important than the issues it raises for the people who lived through that area through that era are the issues it raises for the next generation. We are trying to figure out how the vietnam war shaped who we are today. In a lot of ways, hoping that this conversation can answer questions for the next generation. I teach a course on the 1960s. Theres a former student from that course in the audience today. He is sort of a testimony to the questions that this generation wants to ask about the war and how it influenced us. They want to know how so many young men in particular, their parents and grandparents were sent off to war, that our leaders could barely justify. They want to know about that. They want to know how the personal loans, the cultural world personal wounds, cultural wounds, political wounds reverberate in our society today. Im going to kick it off and sort of ask each of you to say, in some ways, how this war changed you personally. To magnify it in terms of a sense of how it sort of reshaped and changed our country. Ambassador jim jones had a very special place in the war. He served in basic training. To be aat, he didnt go nonhe went to another place some might call a war zone, which is the Johnson White house. An armye served as intelligence officer, then on the staff of the johnson, and ultimately in the position of appointment secretary, which we staff. W as chief of jim so many things came out from vietnam from my perspective. Staff. One of the things, i was the son of a world war i veteran. We had a great sense of volunteering. That was the thing to do in those days. We had a sense of trust in the government. I think the thing that disturbs me more than anything else is how information from the front lines could get so distorted by the time it got to the president of the United States that it was not even recognizable. I still havent figured out how that happened, but it did. The other thing, for me personally, it made me much more questioning and much less willing to just take anybodys word for it. When i left the white house, went back to my home state of alahoma, and ran for congress few years later, it turns out that, in those days, you could be bipartisan, you could have friends on both sides of the aisle and Work Together. One of the things that i found since coming to congress, that democrats and republicans alike heard from their constituency when they were getting elected. When they were getting elected how government had become estranged to them and they didnt feel any kinship with the government. Among the things we did was to pass the war powers act, which clip the wings of a president and make him come to congress, the peoples body, to get approval for the introduction of military personnel on foreign land. That worked for a while. Think we do need to putscover that and perhaps some sort of program like that in. Leonard thank you. 1969, you were in the non. Starsceived two bronze for heroism and a purple heart. Obviously, that the and had a deeply personal impact on your life. Please say how, sort of a larger sense of how it changed who you are. Kurt first of all, my perspective is going to be a little less elevated. I was a noncommissioned officer, one of the grunts on the ground in the night industry the ninth Infantry Division. Actually, even now, still very much ground level because one of the things that when i got , my lifeost my leg changed personally and physically forever. I became a person with a disability. I didnt know what that would mean. I was a young recruit. I had a tube coming out of me, pins in me. Me, butly, it affected one of the things it did do was to get me focused on what really helped turn my life around and save my life. It was a spurts a Sports Program that the military offered to get us back into life again. We now focus on health care, physical activity, the war fighters Sports Program, in serving the warriors with the sports rehabilitation program. We do see now, one of the Lessons Learned, is there is much more of a focus on the complete care for the wounded and health and wellness activities that are going on. Education is the key to getting the jobs. Doing for ourare wounded and those transitioning out of the military. It changed the course of my life. We have a sense of our relationship with government, we have a sense of our relationship with veterans. Harry robinson, you went straight to Vietnam Army Ranger school in 1967. You were to leader you were a platoon leader. You were scheduled in a very dangerous place in vietnam close to the cambodian border. Harry the notion of patriotism the government ran very strong in my family. When the Second World War came around, all the males in my family joined the military. My uncle was the highest ranked negro when he retired from the service in 1954. His grandson had two sons that both finished in that both graduated from west point. In vietnam, i tried to get an assignment that he didnt want me to have. He thought it was too dangerous. I wrote him letters, called him. The First Division would be a safe place to be. That wasnt quite true. Life runs thaty i did ranger school, vietnam, then grad school. School, it to grad was a very difficult graduate student because i wasnt afraid of anything. What are they going to do, send me to vietnam if i dont do this paper . It is the notion of personal confidence that came out of that experience at a very high price. Its a gamble that i took. I took that gamble because i decided, when i was in my 40s and 50s and 60s, i wanted to be among those men in the country that are running the country. That plan worked out exactly as i had hoped. Weve had some opportunities to do some things that we would not have done had it not been for the war. ,he difference between vietnam soldiers, military, and whats going on now is it to the end of us. War to unite country fromthe itself. Military is honored as they are in a war. Leonard obviously, it is the question of how vietnam divided us and how people have tried to knit us back together. Bob carr, former member of congress who ran for congress because of vietnam. You were an undergraduate, i think in law school, at the university of wisconsin, which was really one of the hotbed moments of the moment. What has driven your political career and activism is your experience from those years. Bob my story isnt that remarkable. I was a scrawny kid from janesville, wisconsin, growing up thinking i would be a nuclear physicist. I went to the university and signed up for all the science courses, but they made me take a well, they didnt make me. It was required to take a Political Science course. I took my very first Political Science course. I can recall that it was a turning point because, with my Nuclear Physics interest and the book that they required us to read, it was kissingers second , his Nuclear Weapons and Foreign Policy book. Myead that and i thought, oh gosh, the war is just percolating along. It was not reaching a fever pitch at this point. Like most americans, i had a sense of patriotism. I said the pledge of allegiance, saluted the flag, and believed what my leaders were telling me. We were fighting communism. The kissinger book sort of slowed me down and caused me to think about some things in ways that i had taught about them before. That i had not thought about them before. My moderate republican upbringing my father didnt like joe mccarthy. It started to get me to rethink some of the things i was taught at home. Things progressed and i was going to vote for. Goldwater, the first time i could vote for president. The election year, he started talking about, well, maybe we got to use Nuclear Weapons in vietnam. I thought that was crazy and i couldnt vote for him. Started percolating at the university of wisconsin. They had a protest over dow chemical, which was the very first violent protest. There were many protests about the vietnam war, but this one went violent. The whole campus was in a state of shock. Ton graduation, you had think about the draft. It was very present in our daily lives, what is going to happen next, what is the draft board going to say, what do we do . It just so happened there were graduate affirmance then so i went to law school and continued to get a draft deferment. I wrote my law school thesis, if thewill, it was on selective services. I had this connection with the draft, those who were drafted. After leaving wisconsin, i went to michigan. Again, influenced by, among others, participatory democracy, and engine for civil rights and the war movement and those kinds of things. I get to michigan and im appointed by a federal judge, defending people who are claiming conscientious objection. If you are a conscientious objector, the only way you could appeal a traffic board decision set a draft board decision saying they dont believe you was doing it as a defendant in a criminal case. I ended up defending a lot of these people and all but one were successful. In congress, i was privileged to put the period at the end of the sentence. On march 12, 1975 was my resolution to cut off funding for the war in vietnam. Leonard that really just turbocharged your life in so many ways. Thanks for sharing. Im wondering if you think we, as a country, have learned lessons from the vietnam war. What does the philosopher george whoa ana say, that those forget their history are doomed to repeat it . What lessons might those be coming out of that war. Does anyone want to take a crack at that . Ill take a crack at it from a groundlevel. Im going to accuse pete of a bait and switch. You were supposed to get john hagel. I think chuck hagel. One thing is the public reaction to these current wars and those who served in vietnam. In vietnam, because there was such a division in our country about the war and a real violent hatred for the war, that translated over to some of those guys who served. It really didnt affect our psyche in terms of how it really did affect our psyche in terms of how we felt about ourselves. Now, whether you are for or against the war, they support the troops and their commitment to serve for this country and sacrifice for this country. It came to me rather graphically when i was over here at the 9 30 club, a nightclub here in bc, and here in dc, and a foundation founded by the gratefuland dead they were lg dead but they had this organization that had a foundation and i was get funding for the war fighters program. I think that is really one of the things. The other couple of things that we are seeing, i went through the rehab program, which was a good program back then to help us get on our feet again. I ended up going to law school through that program. As, the g. I. Bill is as good the programs back then that was just for the wounded. That is good. And theres no limits on it. I can tell you, ive been in the deputies the deputy secretarys office, arguing for those veterans that fell through the cracks and 10 or 15s later, we were trying to get them back into some 10 or 15 years later, we were trying to get them back into some rehab. Thats an improvement, in my opinion. To focus on ptsd. We didnt even define ptsd coming out of the war. I got discharged on the last day of 1969. I had my first session of ptsd counseling in 1982 when my marriage was falling apart. Now,is different because we try to encourage the warriors to get in and see some help. The matter what happens, you do have some posttraumatic stress. We dont want to become want it to become posttraumatic stress disorder. Those are some of the positive changes were seeing compared to vietnam. Leonard do you think Vietnam Veterans the narrative early on was very divided. There were lots of issues related to Vietnam Veterans. Do you think our country has welcomed Vietnam Veterans more . Kirk yes. It was really sad to see people coming back from vietnam or military service and being ashamed of their service because the communities where shaming them basically. I think thats one of the good things that has happened in the past couple of years, that the human beings who fought this war are being recognized for the patriotism that they exhibited. I think that has an effect on the response of Political Leadership as well as the citizens at large on soldiers who are fighting todays wars. That, even though the country was fairly divided on the iraq war, for example, they were not divided on the people who were fighting the war, and they did g