Stephen engle, the author of a great book about lincoln and the nations governors. Jonathan white, author of midnight in america. And soon to be with us, a book, our little monitor. And of course, Catherine Clinton , no stranger to us, author of many books. And, and author of a great ongraphy as well as edwards standin, called stand on edward stanton, called stanton. He told me, and i hope i am not revealing any confidence, he has a glint in his eye. Good luck with that. I am sure we will hear about secretary of the treasury salmon chase from professor clinton. Let me start with this. John barr, one of our members, wrote a great book but it is a door stopper, it is huge. Lincoln. Led loathing he said in his introduction that william f. Buckley, jr. Once said americans shall not remember why lincoln was loved until we come to understand why he was hated. Both emotions were shown after his assassination in 1865. Even those who as william , petersen said, even those who commemorated or tried to memorialize his death with a bunting secretly harbored a wish for his demise. I think what we have is a thought on when this dislike of lincoln began. And i think it is true, even before he was elected president , and deep and throughout his administration. Certainly, lincolns political outlook, in contrast to slaveholders contributed to this, his reliance on Thomas Jeffersons declaration of independence, which he think thought superseded the constitution or should at least be read together. ,nd his acts as president clearly the republicans supported him, antiwar democrats called copperheads despised him, especially since they believed, as did the southerners because , he subverted the constitution. Especially in the suspension of writ of habeas corpus in the north. That is a general overview, which i think we all get and understand, even if we do not accept this dislike of our 16th president. What about particular enemies within and without his administration . What i have asked our panelist to do is to give a two or three minute overview of what they would like to discuss to get us going, especially for our questions and discussion among the panelists about what they think is important to know about lincolns specific enemies. We will start with stephen. Stephen in regards to the governors i studied, there are two categories i do not know if they would be called enemies. Or perhaps just oppositionists. Early in the war, john andrew whothe radical republicans were representatives of the various states, probably had come to regard lincoln in a frustrating way because the war as it turns out early on is a conciliatory war to maintain the border states within the union and john andrew and Israel Washburn becomes fairly exercised about the slow progression of the war, especially during the fall of 1861. These governors began to find ways to move the administration along to advance the war quickly in order to end it quickly to maintain the volunteer spirit that they were struggling with back at home. Early in the war, i would say the radical governors were oppositionists to lincolns mentality about how to fight the war. In fact, andrew and washburn would be among the leading advocates for raising black troops. And they would write the salmon Samuel Cameron privately. Of course, in the fall of 1861, this is a radical idea. But one in which they believed if the union had embraced this early on, it would have shortened the war. And the frustrations among the populace, it even though a fairly overwhelmingly conservative population perhaps , a shorter war would come about. As the war progresses, and they achieve some modest victories, with the confiscation acts, and ultimately emancipation in 1863, then you find there is another opposition rank among the conservatives. And the people who lead that cadre of enemies would be horatio seymour, who was elected in 1862. And who, in fact, would believe that lincoln is moving the war too quickly because he is a tool of the radicals and it is not until seymour becomes governor, recognizing the war has changed very quickly in two years. Seymour comes to resent lincoln for expanding the war too quickly. He believes that lincoln has been moved and prodded by these radical political leaders to advance the war and to establish a the revolutionary nature of emancipation and National Conscription and black troops. For most conservatives, this was a radically different war in 1863 than it was in 1861. Especially in reaching out to the citizenry to mobilize and meet the demands necessary for this rather new war that the governors there would be no border state governors elected. There were no elections in 1862 for those states. But in the states that had large populations to draw from new york in particular how would they be able to sell the war to a fairly conservative population that opposed emancipation and conscription, and a number of other acts . In the ways in which we see how states and governors react to the progression of the war, early on there is a frustration it is not moving fast enough. By 1863 there is a frustration it is moving way too quickly for those who share the burden and labor of filling the ranks as these conscription acts move forward into the states. So frank jonathan white, you did write a book, a very good book, on Abraham Lincoln and treason, so i suppose it would be appropriate for you to discuss why this caused so many people to turn against lincoln. Jonathan steve lays out the brand a narrative of the opposition to lincoln during the war very well. I hope you will forgive me for. Eing anachronistic as i was thinking about this i thought, if lincoln was on twitter, who would have trolled him . [laughter] there are some obvious candidates. You would have people like john merryman. Steve mentioned some of these governors, andrew on the republican side or seymour on the democratic side is opposition. The millennials have a good term for this frenemies. I am not on twitter though. You should get on their there. Frenemy is someone you associate with even though you , have an enmity towards them. There are hundreds of thousands of ordinary democrats in the civilian population and the army who oppose lincoln. For the very same reasons steve was describing. They see his policies on Civil Liberties and habeas corpus, on confiscation and emancipation, they see his support for a 13th amendment in 1864. That pushes them to turn against lincoln. Whereas they may have been moderate supporters of the war early on. They see the changing nature of the war and they begin to see lincoln in a much darker light. During part of the discussion, that is what i will want to talk about. Some of the civilians who opposed to lincoln and some of the soldiers who are often seen as overwhelmingly supportive of lincoln. In my research, i found many soldiers who came to loathe lincoln, with great hatred. Frank thank you, jonathan. Catherine clinton, i think it is appropriate for you to discuss the man about whom lincoln said to john , his assistant secretary, when he was to relieve general rosecrans i suppose he will, like the bluebottle fly, lay his eggs in every rotten spot he can find. [laughter] catherine on the matter of spreading manure everywhere, i i think salmon chase and his daughter were quite active in washington at the time. A freneim as an my, lincoln certainly believed in keeping his friends close and enemies closer. We can see it really paid off, especially after his untimely death. On this manner matter, being invited to talk about lincolns enemies what have i ever done . Some have suggested to me, since i worked on mrs. Lincoln, that would be a start. I certainly hope i certainly hope someone read my book and disagree. I was working on lincoln in new yorks, think to harolds kind invitation. I found this backbiting, and snarling among republicans. Therefore, when i was first looking at the enmity between chase and lincoln, i found it of a deep, intense sense ambition, selfrighteousness in salmon chase that led to his belief that he would make a better president. He had to assert himself that lincoln would see that with his every act. He also challenged lincoln. It was also, as you study this come you get a deeper appreciation of lincoln who , understood quite well the motivating force with chase. Also lincoln kindly recognized , his wifes enmity with kate chase. She made a marriage to finance her butlers financial run for president , then found herself shortcircuited. Her charm spread around washington. It was so great, when lincoln finally did except one of chases many resignations, chases reaction was great shock how could lincoln ever live without him . Lincoln had great plans for him. By cementing his role on the Supreme Court, he did not know what lay ahead. I know link it was not i know was was not precedent predictcient enough to the exact timing of his death. But he did appoint him to the court later that year. Whatever he knew about his ambition, he knew about his selfrighteousness and therefore chase did inadvertently make himself an ally of lincoln because what he was busy trying to cut lincoln down to size, he contributed later to lincolns immortality. Frank thank you, catherine. Walter, the thing that has impressed me for many years is the plurality of lincolns reelection in 1864. 2 million, 200 thousand for him. He won the electoral votes in all but two states, new jersey, the home of his democratic opponent. And i think, kentucky, the place of his birth. That is a great victory in the midst of war, where elections were allowed to be held, to lincolns credit, but i have often wondered, what is making up this 1. 8 Million People who voted against him . They certainly were not friends of lincoln and his administration. Walter to measure the closeness of that election, we need to look i did not bring the numbers with me at lincolns own handwritten document in which he will predict the electoral vote. This occurs in october. He thinks he is going to lose new york and pennsylvania. Those are the two most popular states with the most electoral votes. He thinks he is going to win by four or five electoral votes, as narrow a margin as one can imagine. I think that was a very good prediction. When you look at how did he win new york . I mentioned it last night i , think defending Benjamin Butler to new york city to keep democrats. Butler sent a note, i think i have done a good job of discouraging the democrats of coming to the polls today. [laughter] i think that jonathan in his great book about the election talks about this. It wouldve been what we talk about today in the third world as a free and fair election. There might have been even more votes against jonathan is nodding. There might have been even more votes against Abraham Lincoln in 1864. I think we should get to lincolns enemies south of the masondixon line. And the attitude of Jefferson Davis and others toward lincoln. By the end of the war, they view him as a pirate operating outside the laws of war. I think we should talk about that at some point. Let me followup up with walter. What a lot of people do not realize is that in Early September of 1864, some new york journalists were very fearful of what might happen in the election. They decided to write every governor a private letter to gain their sense of what their states results might be. They would ask three questions do you think lincoln could carry , the state, was there a substitute, and with the National Union party when . Win . The interesting thing is, the response among most governors, the election is a foregone conclusion. It is too late to pull lincoln out of the race. That would be a National Political calamity. , the fallout would make the union look vulnerable. But there were a number of governors, andrew included, who would recommend chase as a possibility. And those who would not even recommend someone said lincoln was unfit but to pull out of the race would lose the credibility of the political process. There were very real questions about the opposition within the public sector. For three new york journalists, very highbrow journal is who , sent a series of letters to every governor to gauge the on the ground sense, would lincoln states, was a great indicator of how this election was to be. Those letters go out about the time that sherman is in atlanta and atlanta falls. If you read the news of the day, i think these responses were influenced to a large degree by what was happening militarily. It was not about lincoln, but about moving the contest forward. They thought they were winning in the field. To create a political liability would probably backfire and land the democrats to victory. Catherine do you think if the pomeroy circular would have been at a different point in time, the proposition lincoln was weakening the war effort and the party that the Party Leaders were pushing chase and chase no, yes it is interesting, we look at contingency theory and political contingency theory that chase overplayed his hand. I said this yesterday to follow up. Because of the way things turned out, we forget just how unbelievably chaotic and how much opposition there was. For me the miracle is that these , elections are taking place every year and this incredible election takes place in a year with overwhelming opposition bubbling up from a variety of places for a variety of reasons. There is a lot to be said for the miracle of this election. Frank much of that opposition was not just based on failures in the battlefield but the ongoing struggle we have had since our founding of National Security versus Civil Liberties. Walter, picking up on that, what did Edwin Stanton do to help the opposition as far as enforcement of the draft and filling up what many opponents called bastilles of the north . Lincolnsanton, under supervision, creates a system of provost marshals in every Congressional District and they are given Broad Authority to not just enlist men for the draft but arrest of those opposing the draft, and these are energetic men and they take that to heart. Hundreds of folks are arrested for interfering with the draft and as franks question suggests, this is almost if a democratic strategist were writing for stanton what not to do in order to help democrats get votes in the fall of 1863 and 1864, it would be a perfect script. It gives the democrats a great argument that the constitution, as it was, a key element is lincoln and stanton are throwing editors and others into prison for opposing the draft. Frank lets segue and then we will get the catherine on specific issues regarding the secretary of the treasury. But jonathan, what about the law of war and the issues that confronted lincoln and the decisions he made . Jonathan on this issue of military and the civilians mark , neelys pulitzer prizewinning book, the state of liberty, shows most of the civilians arrested were people doing things to either materially hurt the Union War Effort or help the confederate war effort. His argument is that these are people who wouldve been arrested anyway. The reality is, the arrests that got the attention of the American People and continue to get our attention today are of the great political leaders. There was a congressman from maryland named henry may who was arrested and a judge named richard carmichael. It advances the narrative that lincoln is using claims of necessity to go against the constitution and do what ever he wants to do. From the democratic perspective, they argue this is simply to silence their opposition. He is using the laws of war to silence his political opponents. From lincolns perspective, he is doing what he needs to do to help win the war. Lincoln writes very famously in june of i could have arrested 1863, robert e. Lee and other great confederate leaders he does not call them great in the beginning of the war in 1861. And if i had done that you would , have raised the hell of free speech and free press and habeas corpus and constitutional rights. He suggests one day people would look back and suggested he should have arrested more people. I dont know how persuasive that is, if we would think that today. Frank today, it is called preventive detention. [laughter] and how we would feel about that in our culture. Just as a teacher teaching civil war each semester and even in the summer school, for those of you who have not been to san antonio in the summer we have devoted we teach the script furloughing the soldiers, going back, when a wider margin for lincoln. I have been to the Lincoln Forum and read recent books contradicting the loyal soldier. I wonder if panelists who have done other research my comment . I published a book three years ago and in that book, i wanted to look at how did Union Soldiers view emancipation and lincoln. The general argument that existed for 150 years, 80 of the soldiers voted for lincoln in that shows they supported him 1864, and emancipation. I wanted to get behind that 80 number and see what it really meant. I found that many soldiers chose not to vote in the election, even though it was quite easy to vote. You had to walk down your Company Street to the polling street in your regiment. You did not have to go to the next town over, like if you were a farmer back at home. Why did these men choose not to vote . And what i argue in the book is that there were a lot of democrats in the army who just did not come around to support emancipation and they did not come around to support lincolns war policies. They had enlisted in 1861 or 1862 because they believed in fighting for the union. But then in 1862 and 1863, lincolns war policies change changes, but their views do not change. I have chapters in the book on desertions and resignations. I have chapters on soldiers who were courtmartialed for opposing emancipation. And then i have a chapter on the election itself, showing how these soldiers behaved, how the high command behaved and how , lincoln treated the soldiers. I argue the Lincoln Administration, the republicans in higher positions in the union army worked diligently to silence these soldiers were opposed emancipation. To get them to not talk with their comrades about their views. In many cases this gets to walters point earlier about voter turnout in a lot of cases these guys cho