Another guy with the same name, kenneth carlson, and he is kenneth r carlson. He was a wrestler. Im kenneth g carlson i was sort of a basketball player. Did that cause any problems to you . Absolutely. The day i reported in the gym, the people that had the roster said you already signed in. I said no i havent. They said you have. I said no i havent. They go oh, my gosh there is two of them. So when we were in the barracks it was much too small. So now ken carlson large. He used to be ken carlson small but he didnt like that so hes now ken carlson handsome and im ken carlson large and it works out fine. He became a fbi agent. As long as you are good with if, im fine with it. Im happy with that. Tell me about your background chblt where you are from and where you grew up. Im an army brat. I was born in detroit. My father deployed to world war ii just after my birth. He went to the pacific as an army officer. He was going to be part of the invasion of japan from philippines. He was an ordinance officer which is why we were in detroit. He came back. No, im sorry, he did not come back. My mother and brother and i went to japan after the war was over and we were part of mcarthur pioneers. We lived in ouk. And he went to school mail order program. And i was two years old at the time. I learned to speak japanese before i learned to speak english because i had an alma who taught me japanese. And he went around speaking japanese. So, anyway, when we came back, i was three years old. And, lets see, where did we go . We went to the naval war college. They didnt send him to the Army War College because they wanted had imto transfer into the air force, brand new air force. My father wanted nothing to do with the air force. So they said, well, you are a rising guy, 06 by that time, so we have to get you some pure el experience so sent him to the naval air college which is pretty cool. We enjoyed that time. All thoi was too young to really remember it. Then we moved around for 16 or 17 more times until he finally ended up in the, well, we ended up in vietnam as a family. Wow. And i have a little article here that im going to give you a copy of. This is from vietnam magazine. And i published an article in this. This is 2009 called my whole family served in vietnam. And so its a twopage article. But its interesting part about it is that a lot of people say my dad served. My brother served. Not many people can say my mom served in vietnam too. Yes, sir. But my dad was deputy chief of the mag under hanging sam williams from world war ii. Got the name hang willing sam because he was in charge of the executions at nuremberg. Wow. He was Lieutenant General and ahead of the 50 or 60 americans in the country. My dad was bringigadier. And there was one other. So we lived in a nice mansion with servants and drivers and all that kind of stuff. But they had to go on the social circuit every night for three or four things a night. And it was really bothering my mother for two reasons. She started to become an alcoholic. But secondly she was standing in high heels on marble stuff for hours on end every day and it was beginning to hurt her back. So in the middle of my second year there what year was this, sir . This was 19 lets think here. 1957, 1958. I got there 1957 and came home in 1958. So i was there for two years. And i had one conference out of with my dad, all these generals are well timed where they are supposed to be, he lingered to talk to somebody at conference and huge planter outside the Office Building where this thing blew up, it was targeted for him. He was supposed to be killed by this planter exploding. So my mother was a little upset about that. And three weeks later the viet minh, they werent congress, they drove by on a motorcycle and threw a hand grenade under the school bus, of course it was moving, and i was sitting in the front, but it blew up the back and a lot of kids cut up. So within a period of a month they tried to kill my dad and tried to kill me. And my mother was then becoming frantic. So just at that point in time, sink pack sent orders to vietnam that said we want general carlson to go to laos and take his family to laos to start the mag in laos which there wasnt anybody there except laosians and i presume some North Vietnamese. And he said no im not going to do that. I cant do that. So me and my mom stayed up all night one night writing a letter why they couldnt do that. My brother was still at west point. Hadnt been with the family two years. Trying to kill us. A lot of Different Things. Anyway they rescinded those orders and he was sent back to the pentagon where he got promoted to second star and retired in 1962. Yes, sir. How was it living in vietnam for you . Except for the hand grenades under the bus . I had a lot of fun in vietnam. I was 13 year old kid chblt i had a diplomatic immunity card. Thats dangerous. That got me hand my friends out of a lot of trouble because i would flash this at the white mice and they had to let us go. We only went to school in the morning. Because it was too hot to stay in the afternoon in quan set hut classrooms. And in the afternoon we went to the saigon, sports club near the president ial palace, block and a half, and it was still populated by french girls because their parents were still working in vietnam even after the french left. So i would go over there and learning french in school but really learned french by talking to the girls in bikini. I had to communicate with these women. So i had a pretty good time. We went to hong kong n die yeah, took some side trips, and finally came home in late 1958. And we went instead of back across the pacific, we went around the world, came back through paris, and i flew across the atlantic on the second one that acrossed the atlantic. First one we got return flight from paris back to new york. Thats exciting. First jet i had ever been on. Now a second ago you said white mice. Some of our listeners why not know what you are calling. Thats the vietnam police. They have cross belt. But when you see them that was the white mice. Yes, sir. So i imagine you learned to speak french pretty well then. I was pretty good french speaker. I took it here and ive used it in current times in europe, advanced french, but if you dont use it you lose it. Did you learn any vietnamese . No. Well, i learned vietnamese swear words. We all knew those. Of course. What year did you arrive at west point . 1962. And what was your expectation when you showed up . Well, first let me say my dad did not want me to come to west point. Hes a 31 graduate. My brother is 61 graduate. And he said ken you are National Merit scholar. You have other opportunities. Have you Ivy League Schools trying to recruit you to come. Why dont you do that. I said i think ill. I think ill go to princeton. Then president kennedy gave favorite speech about let every nation know that we will pay any price to protect liberty, and i said, dad, i changed my mind, i want to go to west point. And i had an appointment already so i had a choice. And he said are you sure . Because its not going to be pleasant. And i said ive heard stories from you and other stories from gunner my brother, so ill be prepared. Well, when i walked in the door, i was too well prepared. Because you pick up and drop your bag the first day, when the man in the red sash tells you to drop your bag, well i set my down, pick it up down, i told you to drop your bag and it bounced because i had filled it to foam rubber to protect all my shaving gear. So the guy looked at it and said your bag just bounced. Open it up. And they saw the phone rubber. And said oh, its one of these guys that knows all the inside stuff. Then they learned my father was a general. At that point i was toast. There wasnt enough first class men to get me to go back. Yes, sir. So it was a challenge. It was a challenge. But i was a good student. I was on the honor roll most of the time. I graduated 57th in my class out of 579 so i sneaked into the top 10 . I was honor but i didnt have any academic problems. One of the things they did with me is my tactical officer called me in one day, never a good idea to have to be called in by the tactical, but he called me in and said i need your help. And i said you need my help . This is when i was a cow. And he said, yeah, i need to give you a new roommate. I said who is that, sir . He said kevin kelly. Well, id be happy to room with kevin. Whats the problem . Hes in the injection seat which means he stands last in the class, and great hockey player. He said im moving him in with you you are the closest star man and i want you to help him with academics. I said i would be happy with that. So kevin would come home from hockey practice. And he would say i need to rest my eyes for just a little bit. So he would lie down on his bed. And id say we are having a written general review in electrical engineering. Are you prepared for that . He would say no not really well. Come over and tell me what i need to know. So i read to him when he was sleeping. And, actually i brought him up 11 files. When he graduated, he was 11th fw from the bottom. When i moved in with him, he was at the bottom. He graduated and fwam a doctor, obgyn. I said if i ever woke up on a pt 0ing table and i saw kevin kelly with a knife standing over me, i would die on the spot. Because he wasnt the sharpest tact in the drawer but he was a good guy and im glad he graduated. Thats a wonderful story. And you said you played basketball a little. I did. I played for bobby knight when he was the coach. And mike sul a man, the all american was one of my roommates. So bobbi was a spec 4 when he was working for the coach at the time. And they asked him kates want today move to South Carolina and they asked bobby knight if he would be the head coach. And he said yeah but im only spec 4 in the army. They said well make you head coach. He said will i make as much aspect 4 . And somebody wrote a number on a piece of paper and said this is what we are going to pay you. And he said okay ill do it. But bobby night is a hands on coach. He would grab you, you know, and we had buckets, not bottles, bukt buckets, but he was a super basketball coach. And now until mike took over, he was the guy who had won the most basketball games in collegiate history. So i only played for him for a year and a half, though, and then i realized i was not going to be a starter. And he and i didnt really get along very well, probably my fault, so i left the Basketball Team and went to other activities. Yes, sir. And so as you progressed through and you get ready to branch, what was in your mind . What were you thinking about for branches . We all had to go, in the class of 66, all had to go to Ranger School. Because they did not send us to the basic course. And they figured maybe if you went to Ranger School you might learn enough about combat that you could actually succeed in vietnam where we all knew we were going. Right. So i said, look, it was wuknwu buckner i decided to go army. But they put us in ha big concrete trench and showed us a tank coming at us, platoon of tanks, all five of them and drive right over the ditch and tell everyone get your ahead down right over the ditch. I said when im commissioned i want to be the guy in the tank not the guy in the ditch thats why i wanted to go armor. And you were high enough you got it . Oh, yeah. Any other classmates that went higher. Yes, wesly clark number one in the class. Usually top guys engineers. Some guys number one man in class wants to go infantry. Wes stood up and said armor. I said oh, my gosh there goes my chance to go to berlin. So at the end of all this i said where are you thinking of going, wes, he said, well im choosing between munich and berlin. You do not want to go to m munich, its all girls. And of course he chose munich. And i was next to pick and i was berlin. How was berlin . Berlin was 90 miles behind the iron curtain. There was the berlin brigade, three in fanty battalion, one tank company, one battery, and one air helicopter detachment. And then of course the britts also had a brigade there and the french. We were occupying west berlin and russians were occupying east berlin. So i went in as a platoon leader of company f 40th armor. And the Company Commander was 34 years old. A guy who had a lot of experience. And he said so when did you graduate from the basic course . And i said, sir, i havent been to the basic course. He said what . I said none of us went to the basic course. They sent us to airborne and Ranger Schools and then out to you. He said what do you know about tanks . I said not very much, sir, but im willing to learn. And he said well unfortunate you cant just learn by experience. So heres what im going to do. It was january of 1967. So im going to send you to nco tank commander course at ville sack in west germany and youll be there with a bunch of sergeants but youll learn everything about a tank. That was the smartest thing he ever did. He was a great kpland der but he sent me down there and i learned how to take them part and put them back together again in the motor pool and the mud. And when i came back the troops were no longer able to make fun of me. Before i left, im sitting out there trying to figure out how to make the tank turn, and one of the sergeants came up, how many times did you do that turning it this way . I said you dont know. You have to keep track of that. Because if you turn it 52 times it unscrews and falls off. So im putting stuff in the logbook that says heres the number of times. And the troops thought this was hilarious. Then im getting in the motor pool, thats where i lived. And i went out and one of the guys took the external phone off of a tank and said sir have you a Long Distance call from america. And i said i do . So i picked it up. And so the guy on the inside of the tank said hi kenny, its mommy. And by this time im going what . Then of course everybody is going oh, my god we got the lieutenant again. You have a lot to learn. But i ended up being a very good experience. One of the more interesting things that happened to me was we had this Immediate Reaction platoon that had to go out in ten minutes notice. Because we had to be checkpoint charley if the russians started making noise and screwing things up again. So one night my platoon was, we all had to live in the barracks when that happened, my platoon was called out 4 00 in the morning to report to the woods that surround berlin. And they said report to sink uz which is the commander in chief of the United States europe, four stars, at block 68. Well, i hadnt been a platoon leader very much, and i was smart enough you lead the column ill be second in line. I know it blindfolded. So we got out there and there was general ill think of his name in a minute but he was there and i reported to him he was standing in hunting clothes next to mercedes. He Said Lieutenant andrew p owe manage a. We called him apo. And he Said Lieutenant carlson, i want you to take your platoon and go down to that wiood line n the other end of this open area and come through the wood line and then when you come out of the wood line, i want you to put your unit in line and come at me with five tanks in line driving right towards this mercedes. And i said yes, sir. He said i want you to be sure to buttoned up. Do not let me see any heads sticking out of any tanks because i want to see if you can do this without hand signals. I had no clue what was coming. So we went down the road, turned into the wood, they said well line up this way. Lets go guys. Everybody lock your hatches. We are going right for the mercedes. And of course what we were doing is driving wild bore. I had no clue. But we drove. He got two wild bore that morning. And my platoon pulled up and got out. He Said Lieutenant that was outstanding. And i got a four star letter of commendation as secretary lieutenant. Do you still have that piece of paper . I have it in my files somewhere, yes. But anyway my Company Commander congratulated me and that was my welcome to berlin. I met my future wife in berlin. She is not a german. Working for the state department. And then i knew i was going to vietnam. I was a platoon leader for a while. Then they picked me to be the bringing ard commander aide which i did did it twor two different, Samuel Baldwin who ended up being in vietnam as division commander, and samuel goodwin, who retired as brigadier out of the berlin brigade. But one age story that i need to tell you, which is one of my favorites. Im four days into being an aide. And general baldwin calls me into office and says we need to go to veil, we have trips training. We need to go there. So set up the arrangements. Sir, when do you want to go . Day and a half from now. So i come out, i have a sergeant who is stenographer and sergeant who is driver who speaks fluent germany. And i said how do you get airplane reservations from pan am to get me from here to frankfort, how do i get to veil . And somebody said, lieutenant, relax, we have your own plane. I said i do . He said, no, not you lieutenant. The general has his own plane. I said well what am i supposed to do . All you are supposed to do is make sure you have a 45 thats loaded, make sure that you have a handcuff that you can carry the generals plans because berlin commander he has to carry the contingency plans where he ever he may be. So hell have top secret documents and youll be armed. How do i get to the airport . I have no clue. They said well pick you up at the mercedes and take you to temple hoff. So there this plane, urks 6. Two pilots in front, two passengers in back. Looks like a chevrolet with wings. So we got in. And general sitting there reading Time Magazine, of course sitting on the right, and im sitting here. I broth my map because i said look im Airborne Ranger im supposed to know where i am 100 of the time. So sitting there looking at the map thinking as we flew over east germany he was going to say what is that, knowing its a soviet installation, he probably knew that. So im expecting him to give me ha quiz. And im realizing na navigating from the air is not the same as ground you cant see the terrain. They all look the same. So all of a you had is eni go in into this panic i have to know. Ill ask the pilots. Okay. So how do i talk to the pilot sns well there has to be a way. They have a general in the back seat. There has to be a way to talk to the pilots. Im looking around. Oh, here, i have a little tube on it, sort o