The committee will reconvene. I want to thank all of our extraordinary witnesses who have come to be with us today. Michael breen, president and ceo of human rights first. Thank you for coming. Hope frye, the executive director of project life line. Clara long the deputy direct for Human Rights Watch. Dr. Carlos gutierrez, a pediatrician in private practice. And ronald vitiello, who is the former chief of u. S. Border patrol and former acting director of i. C. E. I will begin by swearing all of you in. Please rise and raise your right hand. If you would. Thank you. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god. Let the record show that all of the witnesses answered in the affirmative. Thank you. Please be seated. Please speak fl the microphone. Your written comments will be received without objection. And mr. Breen you are invited to give an oral presentation. Thank you for the tune to be here today and for this important hearing. For over 40 years human rights first has been representing asylum seek eshs in the american legal system. We helped draft the refugee act in 1980 today we have clients who have been forced back to the mexico under the policy who are struggling with access to counsel, deliberately deprived of medication and accused of no crime. There is no reason why there needs to be a burgeoning human rights crisis at the border. Or the human rights and due process violations we see every day. This is the predictable result of deliberate policy and gross incompetence by the administration. There are better answers. There are tons of better answers. My written testimony submitted to this committee with numerous reports and recommendations by human rights first and others lay out a clear path forward that respects human rights and safeguards our nation and and i hope we can talk about those things. But right now i would like to try and keep a promise i made yesterday in juarez and el paso. Before i came back to my own daughter and to other parents. In overcrowded rooms filled far away from this one including a Church Sanctuary verpted to a shelter for over 1007 people. I promised other parents trying to get back to their kids. Parents like miss juarez spoke of the continued belief in the United States of america and abiding faith in god. And i promised them i would do my best to make their voices heard here today. The 18 or 19yearold girl who stood up in a crowded Immigration Court look the judge in the eye with all the courage she could muster and asked him to get her back to her daughter. She had survived a rape at age 13. And when she reefed the border to seek asylum she didnt have the proper paperwork so she was separated from her 5yearold child and then sent to cbp detention. The socalled i. C. E. Boxes for 50 days. When guidelines say three. Three days. 50 days. Then taken to juarez, dropped off, and told to fend for herself until after her hearing. The judge was powerless to do anything but ask the companys representative an toerp from dhs to make note of it. Since there is still no system in place for keeping track of separated families and making sure they get back together, who knows what good that note will do . The many Refugee Families i met with in juarez, including a woman who requested asylum with her partner and two children, they were taken to that now infamous make shift camp unthe bridge. After about three days in terrible conditions, her 5yearold was too weak to stand. She told me she begged an officer for help. Help me, she said, my child is dying. And she told me the officer applied and i quote, well, are they dead yet . Then shut up and stop crying. She said that she and others called the Television Crews outside the fence for help and were soon sent to a tent camp in the desert she driebd as worse. There they were told the conditions were punishment for trying to talk to the media and if they tried it again things would get worse. Finally her daughter collapsed and lost consciousness. At that point she and her daughter were taken to the hospital and treated for severe dehydration. When she got back to the camp her partner and her other child had been moved to another facility that was the last time she saw them. And then she too was left in mexico to fend for mercy and her child where i met her in a place where kidnapping, stault and rape of Asylum Seekers is an everyday occurrence. I could go on and on. This is no plorng just about the integrity of our borders. This is about the integrity of our nation. Mr. Chairman i want to say one other thing. I know what it means to wear the American Flag on my choerld when i go to work every day. Im a proud member of a Law Enforcement family. I served as an army officer myself. And through my careers of training and service it was drilled into me again and again that when you wear that flag you carry with you the horp and values of this entire nation. That your conduct defines the ideals and meaning of the flag in the eyes of the world. In two wars i saw men and women alongside me make unbelievable sacrifices to uphold the values and ideals. Nouses and thousands of us held that line. Thousands and thousands continue to try to do that right now. Its not so that the congress of the United States will stand by while american officials are ordered to conduct a policy of deliberate cruelty against children, stand by while men and women wearing that flag are ordered to pull children younger than my own daughter out of their parents arms and knowingly deliver defenseless families in the arms of criminal gangs to suffer kidnapping, assault and rape. This is not the america that was the honor of my life to serve. I cannot believe it is the america this congress wishes to leave and i cannot believe that this is the legacy that any of you want for your public service. But unless you act it will be. Thank you. Mr. Breen thank you very much. Ms. Long you are recognized for five minutes. On behalf of Human Rights Watch i want to thank this subcommittee on civil rights and Civil Liberties for the opportunity to testify at todays hearing. Human rights watch is a nonprofit, independent organization that investigates allegations of human rights vials in more than 90 countries around the world, including in the United States. I am the acting deputy washington director at and a Senior Research on immigration at Human Rights Watch and i have over a decade of experience covering border and immigration issues. Since 2016 i have searched as a detention monitor and consultant with the flores settlement legal team visiting children detained in the brownsville, texas, casa padre facilities, the now closed tent facility in tornillo, texas in in homestead, florida and those held in Border Patrol station sns california, arizona and most recently texas. From june 17th to june 19th of in year i was part of a Monitoring Team that interviewed children in Border Patrol stations in the el paso area about their protections under the flores agreement, which is a decades old as you know Class Action Settlement obligating the United States government to release Migrant Children expeditiously and deer to detention standards. What we found was outrageous. Our interviews with nearly 70 children in the el paso sector revealed that the u. S. Border patrol is holding many children, including some who are much too young to take care of themselves in overcrowded border jails for weeks at a time without contact with family members, regular access to showers, clean clothes where toothbrushes. Many sleeping on hard floors, many were sick. Many including children as young as two or three were separated from adult caretakers without any provisions for their care, besides that provided by unrelated older children, also held in detention. On my first day in the clint Border Patrol station i sfoek with an 11yearold boy caring for his 3yearold brother. She had been fending for nemesis in a cinder block cell with dozens of other children for three weeks. When i met them the little one was quiet he had matted mayor, a hacking could have. Muddy pants and eyes fluttering closed. As we spoke he fell asleep on two Office Chairs drawn together. Im the one who takes care of him here. No one helps me take care of him, his brother told me. My son is almost three. And sometimes when im with him these days i find it difficult not to think of the skrushiating moment i had to send those two alone back to their cell. Like these boys nearly all the children i met in Border Patrol detention were visibly dirty mud stained wearing the same clothes they wore when crossing the border. They told us they were not given regular access to soap or tooth brushes or they were given access to showers only once a twus twice in a period of weeks if at all. Unsurprise will go i infectionous disease appeared widespread. I went into the flu sell cell for five days i had a fever in there i was shaking some of the other kids were vomiting. No one kwas taking care of kids with the flu. We were not allowed to leave the flu cell ever, a 14yearold girl told me. We and others have been raising the alarm about dplobl hygiene practices abuse and in mistreatment fl Border Patrol detention for siem atop time. What is now happening is the agency is subing children to be to inhumane conditions far beyond the 72 hour limit required by us law. Compounding poepgs harm. Sometimes when we ask we are told we will be here for months said one 14yearold girl who said she had been in clint for three weeks. Despite niece pro longed lengths of stay we found no evidence that anyone had made any attempts to reunite children with family members in the United States. Indeed many of the children we spoke with had been separated from families and were deeply traumaticized as a result. The officers took my dear grandmother away. We have not seen her since that moment. Thinking about in makes me cry at times, the words of a 123yearold girl detained alone at clint with her 8 and 4yearold sisters petitions abuses with are not a vacuum but in a context of a concerted effort by the administration to punish and deter Asylum Seekers including by returning thousands of families to mexico to dangerous conditions and severe injustice. No one should support child abuse as immigration policy. Congress should exercise strenuous oversight to ensure children are quickly released from detention and guarantee safety and well being while detained families belong together and free. Children should be allowed to remain adult family members when thats in their best interests and be promptly released with appropriate support to ensure they appear for immigration proceedings. Issues cbp an and Parent Agency dhs a blank check to expand the system for detaining children will only increase the permanent harm already being suffered. Thank you. Thank you very much, ms. Long. Ms. Frye. Thank you raskin, members of the subcommittee. Thank you for this opportunity to testify before you. Im an attorney with more than 40 Years Experience practicing Immigration Law. Please is your mic on . Sorry. Okay. I coordinate and lead monitoring visits to cbp, orr and i. C. E. Facilities on behalf of counsel. I went to the rhode island grenada Border Patrol station from june 10th to 14th. While public attention focused on hideous conditions at the krint station in el paso, the situation at border facilities in the rgv are spanx sbngsly the same. What sting wishes the rgv secretarier is the 2017 federal Court Decision that found them in viemgs of flores for failing to provide adequate food, adequate access to drinking water, access hygiene and adequate sleeping conditions and by keeping the temperatures too cold. Theyve had two years to remedy the failures. What have they done . Nothing. Children in the rgv are going hungry given nonnutritious food and not enough. Pureed food necessary for infants is completely missing. When there are bolts and formula there is no way to wash the bottles so they become contaminated. Some of the babies were breast fed, moms complaint they got inadequate water to assure milk production. The children we saw were filthy wearing the same wet and muddy clothes in which they traveled. Many were covered in music and vomit, babies had soiled diapers. The children smelled foul. No child had warm clothes despite the extreme cold in the Holding Areas babies were in oncies with no sweater jacket or socks. Some children showered but some had not like the 17yearold mother with a 10yearold son had been held more than 20 days without showering. Its outrageous these conditions exist. The government is not only flouting the rule of law, its terrorizing the clirn. Influenza killed a boy in the rg vflt three weeks before our arrival. We found nearly every one of the children we met sick with the flu, differing only in the severity of symptoms. I met a 16yearold girl in her and her 8monthold daughter. The baby was extremely ill lethargic with a deep cough. She had a mild cold when they arrived but cbp duke took the medicine and clothes. Despite the raging flu for which the entire facility had been under quarantine, the baby will not received any medical attention. After rigorous advocacy by the Flores Council we were allowed to bring a pediatrician into the ursula facility. After the pediatricians visit was announced five infants whom we had seen before were taken to the hospital to the natal intensive care unit. We began our cbp visit on monday. On wednesday night i got sick. I had a fever, 102. 5 vomiting diarrhea. I developed this deep, racking tinnous cough, the same cough many of the children had. At 4 00 a. M. On friday i called 911. The er doctor ordered me admitted to the the hospital. I had influencea a caught from the children. I was put in isolation given iv fluids and medicine they began respiratory therapy. I have i had a five day kaurs of tama flu. We had the same disease but they had to plead for medical attention. Some were maybe given a few does doses of tama flu. Most were returned to the packed cages on the freezing roomgs and transmit the flue eflu to other children. Its child abuse pure and simple like the case of the premature new born baby ill call baby k rich after traveling from guatemala her mom had an emergency csection in mechanics mexico. Born a month premature baby. Mom was forced to throw away her things. This included her backpack including the babys clothes. Kept in a freezing cold crowded kwaj without soap, a toothbrush or shower or clean clothes. Baby k was nonresponsive appear looked at risk of dying. Immediately after encounter baby k and mommen brought the senior most attorney for the government to see them. Shechs disturbed and took the information necessary to gain release to the orr shelter. Despite this and massive other intervention it took the government over two days to transfer baby k and mom to orr custody. The administration would have us believe that the number of arriving children is the delays release from cbp and creating the subsequent need to warehouse children in unregulated, influx facilities like homestead but the real culprits are the l policy that slow the rate of release from orr shelters by imposing restrictive and unnecessary requirements for the vetting family sponsors. Rather than providing funds to detain additional children, congress should be working to ensure their expeditious release to their families. Mo are far better suited to care for these children than a government nas causing them so much harm. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you very much for your testimony. Dr. Gutierrez. Thank you very much, chairman raskin and Ranking Member mr. Roy. Thank you subcommittee members, congressional subcommittee members for the opportunity to speak to you concerning the medical aspects of what im faced with as a private pediatrician in el paso, texas. I am as you might say in the front lines of taking care of theets men, women and children. As a pediatrician we dont have any age limits because we have to take take care of adults as well. Let me tell you how i got involved with doing this in the year 2014 when we had a lot of the Central American refugees arrive on our borders. And at that time the Border Patrol was was kind enough to ask for our help. The community the community physicians. And asked us if we would be present on arrival when the refugees would be arriving at the Border Patrol detention facilities. We were glad to help. There were about 20 of us on call every day. We provided excellent care as soon as they would arrive from the buses things went smoothly. Not one death. Fast forward the year last october. We had the same situation where we began having a lot of refugees arrive on our border city. And being naive i thought lets do it the way we did last time. We did a great job taking care of the medical needs of the refugees. I approached individuals who i thought would be able to give us permission and told them that we had between 50 and 100 physicians, pediatricians, adult doctors, ob gyns, doctors dent uftis ready to step in and do whatever we could. We were told thanks but no thanks we dont need your help. I was flabbergasted, how the heck can they say that . And i mean, i tried. I tried. We went through our congressman. Congressman orourke, later on through congressman Veronica Escobar to no avail. We were not allowed to gain access to the Border Patrol detention facilities. Our our feel as a doctor as a pediatrician especially is that if we could get there right as soon as they arrived to the centers we could make a difference and the prevent a lot of catastrophes like we heard today and some of the past deaths. We pediatricians have trained in taking care of kids for three to five years just in kids. We know how to pick up subtle signs that would indicate that dsh well, man this kid is going to get pretty sick. Because a child is not a small adult. A child is a child, a pediatric patient who with o ask be running around and playing with 103 and 104 fever and within a half hour can carbon you. If you dont know how to pick up the subtle signs, youre in for a bad outcome. And i got to tell you that this is not the fault of the Border Patrol because Border Patrol or i. C. E. Are not trained to take care of things like that. They may be able to have individuals like emts, like individuals who are maybe take a blood pressure, take a temperature, but you need a doctor right there. You need especially a pediatrician to prevent some of the of the catastrophes that happened in the last couple of years. Let me tell you, i had a child that was that they called me on that had been released from the shelter. And it was a 2yearold, 105 fever, listless like a rag doll. I looked at her and immediately called our ambulance from our Childrens Hospital to pick her up. She ended up having bilateral pneumonia. I talked to the mom. And she said he asked for help but no medical help was available. And day in and day out i see these patients and i asked, did you get any medical help there . And in my experience they either receive little or no medical care at all. And what really peeves me off is that if were not allowed to get into the medical in the Refugee Centers to take care of things right on at least let who ever is taking care of those patients communicate with us on the outside. You would i think its it would be hard for you to fathom. But any whoever is taking care of the individuals in the Border Patrol facilities are not allowed to communicate with us. Whats their excuse . We have to respect the privacy of the refugee. Thats a crock, you know that, thats just not right. Thats not the way real medicine is practiced. Real medicine is to where a doctor, if they have to refer somebody to another specialist they can communicate. They are not allowed. If there is even anybody at the Detention Centers taking care of the medical needs, not only that, the medicines are taken away from them. Whether they have a history of seizures, high blood pressure, asthma, diabetes, they are taken away and not given back to them. So when they arrive to our facility at the shelters that we work at, they the parents tell us or the my son was on this, this, this well, gosh we have to guess what kind of medicine they are on and start all over and at least get them through until they go to the final destination. This is not right. At the very least, i hope you who have the power to do this can make an immediate change. First of all, ideally i would love for you to allow us in the Community Access to those shelters. We could make a tremendous difference. And you know what, its pro bono. You dont have to sign a contract with anybody. This is pro bono. Secondly, youre not going to be able allow us to to get in the facilities, then let whoever is in there take give us, you know give us information. Be able to give us information. Hey, we have somebody with chicken pox or meesles or whatever. So we can be aware of what we are expecting. That would be so so beautiful. This is not a rightwing, leftwing issue. S in a human being issue. Ands in this is something so basic to our to our country, to human beings, we need to take care of these individuals the way we would take care of our own children. They deserve the love and respect that everyone of you receive. Thank you. Thank you, dr. Gutierrez. Mr. Vitiello. You are recognized for five minutes. Chairman raskin Ranking Member roy distinguished members of the subcommittee thank you for the opportunity to testify regarding the Current Crisis on the southwest border. Let me start by offering my doeldss to miss juarez on the death of maria. Im sorry for her loss we must change conditions that encourage people to bring or send children to the border. I began myier in 1985 in the llaurado texas asset a Border Patrol agent a different time Law Enforcement knew well the threats of smuggling. Border communities a that welcomed me and other agent were concerned about Border Security. Let me describe a typical scenario what i participated in as occurs in some form on the border today. In most of my career of the illegal traffic and smuggling were people from mexico when arrested people from mexico without a criminal history are offered a volunteer return which in most cases occurs within hours of their arrest. After the arrest the person is deanne to a Border Patrol station and interviewed buy graphic and biometric recorded and safely returned to mexico when someone from other than mexico or canada arrested at the border they are similarly detained interviewed bye metric appears biographical records taken. In order to create a file placed them this removal proegtds. The individual is transed to i. C. E. Custody. While in i. C. E. Detention placed on the Immigration Court docket. Within a few weeks their case is heard perhaps alongside an asylum claim. The Court Reviews the circumstances and renders a decision. Those already dpoerted are held and repatriated in collaboration with the home country. When an unaccompanied choold is encountedered at the border the process at the same a c about. T the interview file creation but instead of i. C. E. The custody the child is referred to hhs. The over yooers grantees who operate shelters for the children. At the shelters they are cared for holistically until touch sim time as placewood family members in the u. S. When families are encountered at the border they face a similar ybp interviewed file create andrea eventually released. So far this year cbp apprehended 5,500,000 families and children most released into the United States. Thats an archl of nearly 2,000 people auto and released every day this fiscal year this catch and release scenario is adding the quist lent of population of Atlanta Georgia to the United States so far this year. The catch appear release problem incentivizing more people to leave home for a treacherous journey that subjects them to unskrum lus smug theers criminal cartel a a off and on foerns forms foeshlgss some are in the margins in the spoet in the u. S. In 10u6r be 201728 murders took add place at the hands on ms 13 on long island new york. Forcing state local and federal officials including i. C. E. To focus on the problem comprehensively a after removes and arresting thousands of illegal gang members the murder rate dropped 5 . One third of felony arrests i. C. E. Made were gangteres entering the u. S. Illegal as clirn. The Border Security circumcises and conditions at the border will only improve if the flow is reduced. I know this is the case because in 2014 under president obamas leadership we faced a similar surge of children and families at the border. The president declared it an emergency and directed agencies to make every effort to address it. The conditions were bad and the system was overwhelmed. The the 2014 surge was less than one fourth as big as todays. Border patrol and i. C. E. Were given Additional Resources and used the resources to improve conditions. Effectively the resources ended catch and release for families. For most much 2015 the surge at the border ended why because dhs began reoperating those family that is did not qualify as acai lees without the release incentive other would be crossers elect to stay home. We cant control the border if three fourths of those arrested are released there is not one thing that can fix whats occurring now. I urge congress to give dhs and components and authority and capability end the crisis. First passion legislation that resist fixes flores. The surest way to reduce the flow is changent incentive allow dhs to hold families in schedule during immigration procedures if they are held in custody for due process and removed after deportation others will stay home. Second, fully fund the required resources to fully implement the historic mierpgt protection protocol. Port courts and facilities for migrants waiting in mexico to quickly have a hearing and jude kate in re cases. Third, pass legislation that allows for uacs treated unthe law the same way we treat mechanics can cant and canadian uac. Reduce retired rick that bliems officials. The officers of dhs took an oath to follow the law. Uacs must be turned toefr to at mmsp. Families must be placed in proceedings for before released. Fully fund the Border Security kbroflt plan designed to protect necessary the personnel and fraz to substantially meet the expectation of the American People for a secure border. Sixth pass legislation that sanctions state and local jirjs action for failing to cooperate with immigration enforcement. Seventh within sfl stp a and the ice agency if wefbl grimes is a benefit to our country enforcement must be funded. Each of these items are required to fully address the problem of an uncontrolled border and restore integrity to our immigration system. I appreciate the opportunity to inform this congress and stand ready to assist with expertise as needed. Thank you. Thank you very much for your testimony. I appreciate it. And dr. Gutierrez, let me start with you. What exactly is the access that doctors and physicians outside of the system have to kids and families presently in the custody of the Detention Centers. Since we are not allowed into the border detention Border Patrol detention facilities, our group of physicians there is a core group about six or seven of us responsible for the day to day care of the refugees. And so once they are released, the individuals are released from Border Patrol facilities they are sent to shelters around the city. There is about 25 to 30 shelters in el paso. And we are called we are responsible for a earn is number of the shelters. When they arrived at the shelters we physicians are called. We go over there and make daily rounds, check on the patients. And the most the sickest we take care of needs right away. I mean, we there is no way we can see all of them but well at least we pick up the sickest ones and we act on them as best we can. And in our experience some of the real sick ones frankly should have been picked up way before where they were housed. Thank you. Mr. Breen, id like to ask you if if you could galvanize public and congressional attention to focus on it and we could get one thing done at this point to improve conditions, what would you do . I want to ask that of all the witnesses here. Sure. We know that when families are represented by counsel who seek asylum, the appearance rate in court is 99 . We should end unnecessary detention. We should move to a Case Management system, which dhs itself protect o typed and ended in 2017, very successfully. And we should end the migrant protection protocol. If you allow me mr. Chairman id like to read you something very briefly. Go ahead. Violent crimes such as murder, Armed Robbery car jacking kidnapping, kpoergs and scofflaw. Gun battles and blockades is widespread. Armed criminal groups target public and private passenger buses as well as private automobiles, traveling off often taken passengering hostage and demanding ran some payment federal and state Security Forces have limited kbablt to respond to vienlts in many parts of the chat state. That is the state departments assessment of the section of mexico neared laredo where dhs is currently dropping off Asylum Seekers to fend for themds on a daily basis. Mpp is a human rights vials needs to end immediately. Thank you very much. Ms. Long, same question to you. If there is something that we could do immediately, to try to restore some order and safety to this situation. What would you advise us to do . Well, ill endorse mr. Breens call to end the migrant protection protocols but also say that the most the easiest way to ensure that children do not suffer harm and that more children do not die in custody, is to invest in release and reunification. To invest in keeping families together, ensuring that adult family members stay with children when that is in the childs best interests, which is it is in most cases. To ensure that the person who is making the decision about whether that is in the childs best interests is not a Border Patrol agent, who is not qualified to make that decision but is instead someone who has professional experience in Child Welfare. You know, one of the things that, you know, we were concerned about about the supplemental bill was the fact that there is of an overinvestment in increasing detention space but underinvestment in increasing resources dedicated to release and reunification. Very good. Ms. Frye, same question to you. Well, of course i endorse what both of my colleagues said. And i want to drill down a little bit on what clara said. Because i agree. That while the cruelty starts at cbp, the real clog in the pipeline is orr and has to do with release. This entire situation and of course we need the protections of a flores at cbp. We need to look at that. And i dont think thats a pollone issue. I think thats a release issue. But we need to turn o. R. R. From a detention agency to a release protocol agency. We need to look at the system of for profit contractors that we employ publicly to to house for pro longed periods children, Migrant Children. To see, do they have robust programs for release . Or are they dekrennivized to do that about by the per night, per head per bed money they get. I think like clara, focusing on release and the many ways there are affirmatively to do that is where to start. Very good i want to give our other two witnesses a chance to respond. Dr. Gutierrez. Yes, sir. There is two organizations that have submitted their recommendations basically what i would be telling you right now, the American Academy of pediatrics and the National Hispanic kmld say association both stated there is an abundance of pediatrician doctors willing to step in willing to step up and provide care right in their facilities. But what i would love to see is first of all in a dream world i would love for you all to take action to allow us entrance into the facilities solts we can take care of the medicalright away. And secondly, if you are not going to allow us in, please have whoever is taking care of those individuals, please let them communicate with us, with what is going on there, so that we know when to expect a very sick individual, so we know how to be best prepared to care for that individual. The other thing is, if you are going to take away their medicines, at the very least, give us a list when we receive them, of the medications they have been on, so that we are not guessing, and for all we know, we may give them the wrong medicine, and do more harm than good. So, i would hope that you all can act, and act soon on those things. Thank you so much. Mr. Vitello . As i said, there needs to be a change in the way the law is operationalized. If we do not reduce the flow, these conditions will continue to exist as they are now. When your capacity for short term detention, which is only designed for a 12 hour stay, they have made lots of modifications to all these locations, if you dont release the flow, you will continue to get the same thing we have seen for the last seven or eight months. It is bad and getting worse. The supplemental funding will assist in ameliorating some of the conditions that have been spoken about today. Next spring, we will be in the same place we are not of the law does not change. I think we are going to go first to mr. Meadows. Okay you are recognized. It is good to see you again. I miss you, and i think you for your expertise, because i know that from my standpoint, you have always shot straight with me, and you told me the things i did not want to hear, and also the things perhaps they needed to hear. I want to just thank you for your expertise. Dr. Gutierrez, i am really intrigued. So, what i would ask you to do, one of the things i have thought about, sometimes access the ivc, you understand that as a position, probably more so than anybody else, in terms of a patients on the right to privacy. Maybe what we can do, and i am looking for some of my democratic colleagues, maybe on a telemedicine, if we are talking shortterm, 12 hours or less, working on that. So if you will get with this committee, i am willing to work with some of my democratic colleagues, to hopefully make sure that pediatricians are addressing some of the health concerns. With that, ill yield the balance of my time to the Ranking Member mr. Roy. And i just answer record, telemedicine is good, but this is not going to cut it for what we are asking, because telemedicine, you are trying to take a picture of an individual. Listen, i live in the mountains, we are hours from healthcare a lot of times i get that. What i am saying is, with some of the obstacles we have, i am willing to work with you. Its have some of that we will see what we can do and ill yield back. Thank you. Thinks german from north, thanks dr. For that. Mr. Vitiello, let me just ask a couple of questions, could you paint a picture again about a little bit of the scale of the numbers we are talking about. Right, i mean compare what facilities are designed for by cvp, along the border, whatever you want to, in terms of the bisector. What are the cbp facilities designed to do, how many people arent they supposed to house, and what are we dealing with now, that order magnitude . We spoke today about the facility, the mcallen Border Patrol station. It is completely overwhelmed. It is one of the newest facilities online. It was designed for taking people into custody for a short time. Most of the traffic back in the day it was adult males from mexico. They were with us for a very short time. It is designed for the book and procedure to take the biometrics, to take the by graphics, and move people down the line. Because of the crisis in 2014, we were forced to adopt the facility. That is why ursula was stood up. Ursula was stood up for the flow in 2014, which is a fraction of what it is today. Even in the best of times, when you are 400 over capacity, you are not going to be able to give conditions and have people safe in that scenario in any way. These facilities were designed for that booking procedure, they are not designed to hold large numbers of families and children. To the Border Patrol in cbp, they have adopted the best way they can. This kind the flow, they are overwhelmed. Really quickly, the picture we are putting up right now, which was again from 2014, which i wouldve given my my colleagues, it was used as a picture to talk about kids in cages for marketing this hearing, with respect to current conditions. Okay, this is what was happening in 2014. That was and is response to the unaccompanied alien children in crisis at that time. Children riding on top of train cars, and then the response by secretary johnson in the Obama Administration on what do we do. We do not have any facilities. We have all these kids, what we do with them . They are unaccompanied. You talk a little bit about the facilities, and the problem of dealing with children who are not with parents, and ensuring that they are safe, that we have got to be careful if we we give them to. Talk about those two things. That is correct, by law, under the way the law treats unaccompanied children, they must be turned over to hhs for placement with family in the United States. That facility is a converted warehouse we adopted for a crisis occurring in 2014, which was much smaller than what we face today. The other thing jay johnson did after the Obama Administration that i. C. E. Helped them with was established the Family Residential centers. People do not want to do immigration detention. When they did establish a residential center, the traffic dried up. People stopped coming to the border with their children. Are you aware, i have been told, i am going to see if this will meet your standard of knowledge, i have been told for the most part, if you look at the roughly 700,000 individuals who have been apprehended, not talking about those who are not apprehended, those ever had a coming between the ports of entry, of that 700,000, roughly half the family unit and for the most part, those family units are being caught and released. And relatively quickly today, because of the numbers we are dealing with. And it is roughly 60,000 or so that are unaccompanied alien children. Then, the rest are single adults, and one of the problems of course is keeping single adults from the children, especially single adults who are falsely claiming to be the parents of the children. Can you talk me through a little bit of that, then i am out of time. The department has been successful in addressing the single adult population. They are taken into custody at cbp, they are processed as quickly as possible. They prioritize children and Families First eventually we get to the processing of single adults. They are headed over to i. C. E. For detention. While in detention, they are on the detained docket. They get to an immigration hearing quickly. When they get released, we welcome the United States. With a dont get released, they quickly are reintegrated to the countries where they are from. , very much mr. Roy. Ms. Kelly you are recognized for 5 minutes. Thank you mr. Chair. Esther vitello, i listened to dr. Gutierrez, would that be helpful to you and pediatricians in the community could come in, if there was some with we can work that out, do you think that is a good idea . In this role, i cannot speak for the department or cbp. In 2014 it was helpful. In the supplemental request that just got authorized by this congress is fine. But the president , there is money for cbp to put on more contact medical staff. In the beginning of this crisis, we started with using support from the coast guard, and our own ability. Cbps ability to contract. It sounds like a common sense idea, i am not opposed to the idea. There are restrictions about peoples privacy. When they are in the custody of the government no, through the privacy scenario that are in their medical care has to be worked up i think it is a common sense idea worth pursuing. I am sure with the witness we just had, she would have appreciated that greatly. Also, the other thing is, since you have an increase of children, and you know what you were just talking about are the offices getting anyone training, or how are they doing . I mean, their parents and uncles and aunts, they have kids and that kind of thing. It sounds like they are overworked. They are absolutely overwhelmed. The Border Patrol agents i know i care about, and the families are compassionate resilient people. They are in a situation they did not choose to be in. They are overwhelmed by this particular mission. 40 of our workforce are assigned to the care and custody of families and children of people in custody. That means like 40 less deployed agents along the border. They did not sign up to do this mission. You have heard today, they are particularly trying as hard as they can. I think they are doing the best they can under the situation they are in. The ones that have been in for a while, what i recognizes there is no help coming. If we do not change the way the law works, this flow will continue, and will continue until something changes. So, i am assuming you will say the negative things we are hearing, that is a small percentage of the officers. The negative things as it relates to their behavior and misconduct, that is not my experience of the culture of the Border Patrol. These are hardworking men and women who took the same oath you did to protect this country. That is what they are most interested in. They are put in a situation that is extraordinary in the history of the border. This is not something they choose to be a part of. Yes dr. Gutierrez. I just want to add that the American Academy of pediatrics has offered at least 2 to 3 times the ability to provide training to the Border Patrol individuals, the workers on pediatrics on basic pediatric illnesses, and to this day, it has not happened. They have not accepted any of that hope. I am looking at you, it seems like you have wanted to see a few more things, i want to give you that opportunity. Thank you. I would just say, i saw this myself as a soldier. I have done refugee work in places like syria, lebanon, and jordan. When you ask a Law Enforcement or military organization to do something for which it was not trained or equipped, and which cuts against the personal and collective integrity of the people in that organization, you disastrous impact on the culture, and you start to see the things we are seeing with cbp. That is an entirely predictable result. When you ask an organization that is set up for 12 hour detention to handle longterm detention of children, to forcibly separate children from their parents, that the human eyes is the agents, and the interns start to dehumanize other people, i am proud to serve as a u. S. Army officer, i can tell you that happened to parts of the u. S. Army when they were asked to do things they were not trained to do. This is an entirely predictable result, with terribly policy positions. The government of the United States should not be placing these men and women in that position. I agree. This is long, it is my understanding you have been interacting with detainees that needed medication, including a set of 11yearold twins with epilepsy, can you talk about that . What of the children, the son of children i spoke with was a pair of 11yearold twins who were stoic, and extremely upset that they had been separated from a 19yearold sister, who had all of their parents information. They told me, i am worried i am never going to connect with my parents again. We got on facebook, we sent messages to various family members, someone finally responded. We connected them with their father, when they started talking with their father, tears to started running down the faces, because they have been held for 13 days alone in a cell. They had epilepsy, one of them was having a severe allergic reaction all over his body. Something that can be the result of reaction to the wrong epilepsy medication. They are still detained, now in our custody. Im thinking of them every single day, because they are still in the system. Thank you, i know i am out of time. This is such a dark stain on our history or every day, as we are putting people through this. I understand what youre saying, people feel overworked. But, you know, this is a human crisis. And, people are losing their lives. That is absolutely ridiculous. You know, when you think about the statue of liberty, and you know what that says, we are certainly not following that. Thank you ms. Kelly. Mr. Cloud, you are recognized for 5 minutes. Thank you all for being here today. Mr. Vitello, you mentioned that the situation at the border has changed. The resources we have at the border are basically set up we are having single adult males come from mexico. Could you briefly explain what has changed, why are we seeing a difference now . Well, i think conditions, and economic picture in mexico changed in the 2010 or so time frame. We started seeing more people from the northern triangle coming up to our border. The demographics in those three countries is much younger than mexico. They are unstable, there is lack of opportunity. And, the policy and the way the law is operationalized, it incentivizes people to come here. If they come here, we talk about these conditions, but when they come here, they are being released by u. S. Authorities, and they are sent to all the cities and towns in the United States. That is a much better life for them for most of them, not all of them, we talked about some folks on the margin, they get pray to the same gains they fled home for. That is the policy we have here. It is a catch and release policy. Every time in my career, when we suspended the activity of catch and release, we did it in 2007 six for secretary sure time, we did it in 2014 for secretary johnson. We are not doing it now, we are getting more of the same misery and chaos we are seeing on our border. A lot of this misery is being caused by the magnet we have created . There are push and pull factors. The way the law is operationalized, people are getting released, and they are getting set up for hearing. The data that the Justice Department has now suggests many of them will not and feel themselves up in and sign them opportunity. Mr. Rain mentioned what we are seeing today is entirely predictable results, i would have to agree. There are many of us, months, even a year ago, calling for action on this humanitarian crisis. Well, for months, the opposition called it a manufactured crisis. I am concerned about that, because i am from south texas. We have known this is an issue for years in 2006, a tractor trailer with 19 migrants was discovered 10 minutes from my home in victoria. When we opened it up, all 19 migrants, including a 5year old boy was dead. In the back of a pickup truck. In the sweltering heat of texas. And so, we know that i live at what is the political point of what is called the fetal funnel, where cartels use those major to highways to traffic humans, to traffic drugs, to do their Illicit Activity to get it into the states. And then throughout the states. So, what is really disheartening about the situation, we have sat here for months and months and months and months and watched this metastasize into the tragedy it is today, while doing nothing about it. I appreciate the tears, i appreciate the concern for children, but i think it is a far greater compassion to be able to have the wisdom and foresight to look into the situation and prevent it from happening in the first place. And, i was sworn in a year ago today, and the frustrating thing about this place is how much political theater there is so little action, so much time, so little time is spent on actually finding solutions to solve problems, and so much time is spent on political theater for the next election, because we would rather run on an issue than solve a problem. And so, this is something that this house, this congress, should have been acting on for months and months and months now to deal with the situation. Instead, we are putting ourselves in a position to aid and abet the cartels who are profiting off the situation, and providing little results. That leads me to this point. I was down about a month ago. We went there with a couple of other men from the oversight committee. We did a couple things, we visited an unaccompanied minor facility that housed a couple hundred young ladies, about 40 of them had been sexually abused along the journey, according to the staffers who worked there. One story, which is kind of humorous, but points to the situation, there was a family that showed up that have a child with them, and the child needed to go to the restroom. So they asked the child, just upon arriving at the facility, would you like me to show you the rest of his. He was like i already know, because he had been there several times. There is an issue with recycling children going on in the situation. We have customs and Border Patrol, who by the way, about 4030 of them are veterans doing the best they can to deal with the situation. Mr. Vitelli, katie speak to the issue about recycled children and our need to protect children as they come across, and what we need to do to do that. This is part of the difficulty with the incentive. If you bring a child to the border to make officials believe it is your child, it will take you in custody, processes, and releasing the child. That is the situation we are in. And with i. C. E. And cbp dedicated resources to try to figure out what is going on, they recognize there is a significant percentage of families who are pretending to be related when they are in fact not. I. C. E. Made one case while i was there, when they uncovered corrupt officials in guatemala, who were issuing residency documents and birth certificates from that country, that fabricated the family relationship that the families had. This is a big problem. The word is out. People know that if they send or bring their child, the end result is to be released in the u. S. I believe the number is 4800 family units falsely presented this year. That sounds right. Thank you i yield back. Ms. Anacostia cortez. Before i started, i think there is an important cultural context that may be missed in this conversation about unaccompanied children. One is that in latino families and latino communities, not just latino communities, understand the supplies and many other cultural context as well, is that what its to find a family is different than what traditionally gets defined as family in the United States. And i was a child, my parents would often send me to puerto rico during the summers. I would live with my aunts and uncles and cousins. My cousins were raised with me as my siblings. I will call them brother, sister my aunt and uncles were raised as secondary parents. In fact, the actual word compadre means comother, coparent. This is the cultural context with which children are coming to the border with their loved ones. They are being taken, they arrive, and then they are being called on accompanied children, when in fact they are a company. They are accompanied by their grandmothers, they are a company by older siblings, they are accompanied by cousins, and just because that person that is coming with them, their guardian, is not their biological mother or father, and they are being accused of Human Trafficking, and are being accused and called an unaccompanied child. They are experiencing the same trauma that any child would be experiencing if they were ripped from their own mother or father, do you find that is in agreement with your experience . I am in complete agreement with how you summarized the situation. I also want to add, cpt currently maintains no records to trace those families. So, when someone is separated from their tf who has raised them, maybe for their whole lives, there is no way for the agency to trace the family relationships and put the families back together. I myself have been in a similar situation, in that i have nieces and nephews, there is an already unspoken understanding that if anything were to happen, i called the my nieces and nephews, they are technically second or third cousins or whatever, how other other folks would call that. That is something were ever to happen to my cousins, i would take those children as my children. My nieces and nephews would be taken as my son or daughter. Quickly moving forward, under the charter ministration, at least six children have died in u. S. Custody. I have their names appear. Jaclyn cal mccain age 7, felipe age 8, one daily on gutierrez, age 16. This way ramirez vazquez, h2, Carlos Gregorio hernandez vazquez, age 16. Those are just the ones that we know of we didnt even hear of s death until eight months after she died. This is not including the children like maria, who we heard about earlier, who fell gravely ill, due to the neglect of lack of sanitation inside dhs custody but they died only after being released from detention facilities, so her death doesnt count. In the 10 years prior to that, there were no similar deaths, zero of Migrant Children in u. S. Custody. This is a new phenomenon under the trump administration. Ms. Frey, how many Migrant Children are similarly falling ill and dying, but are not being counted as a death in cbp custody . I dont know the number. I have no idea the number, you would have to ask the government. I can verify you the reasons why this is happening now so much, it is so much a greater incidence. That goes back to the question of release. When you dont promptly release children, they go to or are in they are held there, they are not released. The mechanism is not working. The requirements under the tbp ra and under florence for prompt expedition release are ignored. Then, you get a backup in these unsanitary places where you pack kids in kind of a congregant care with the who saying to prevent the spread of disease disease wash your hands, there is no soap and water. We make a situation thereby the way we detain kids, because they cannot go upstream, because they havent been released, that is conducive to illness that is part of the reason in the family facilities we stopped providing care. Very quickly, is there any policy that you know of that requires i. C. E. To count pregnant women, and women who are pregnant, record them . Not that i know of. We do not even know how many of these women, there is no requirement to even acknowledge, count, or record a woman is pregnant in custody. We know of at least 28 miscarriages, at least that is also true of children. We saw the rgb girls who were pregnant, who would not be given any medical care, and nobody seems to care they were pregnant. That is really serious. Can i just add that when females are taken into i. C. E. Custody, and they are contemplating being detained, but they are also given a pregnancy exam. Soon after, within the first 24 hours they are in close i. C. E. Company custody, medical practitioners are aware of the pregnancy. Thank you. The general ladies time is expired. Thank you mr. Chairman. Just a few months ago, the leadership was accusing President Donald Trump of exaggerating there was a crisis in the border. In fact, minority lemur bullet leader schumer stated this president used the backdrop of the oval office to manufacture a crisis and divert attention to the turmoil to the administration. It is shocking to me that it has taken this long for my colleagues to finally address there is a crisis. In 2019, we have had more than 593,000 illegal aliens apprehended at our southern border. From october 2018 to may and 2019, we have had 23,900 and 44 unaccompanied alien children attempt to cross the border. I am glad that we finally realized that the situation we are in, and that we can now move forward and look for a solution. It is not time for political games. It is time to act swiftly to get this crisis in hand. Mr. Vitiello, how long is a typical trip from the northern triangle to the southern border of the United States . How long does it take . It could be weeks that people travel through mexico. Approximately how many children will arrive at a facility on a given day . The data that i saw most recently in the press was that two thirds of groups coming to the border every day, two thirds of 2000. Are many of the children who arrive in need of medical care, and if so, what are the issues that you are seeing that they have . It is a difficult journey. It is difficult for them to sleep on the journey, they are not fed as well, they are in the hands of smugglers, people dont that dont care of them as individuals, but as a commodity. When they get to the border, they are often very sick. Early days when i was in cbp, scabies, lice, respiratory infections, fevers, etc. All of the things we have heard here today, that is what comes to the border every day. So infectious problems . Correct. How many children are treated for the ailments they have, and are the results from the trip, or results because they are here . Cbp does its best when i was to government, we spent thousands and thousands of hours, millions and millions of dollars taking people from cbp custody into the hospital, safeguard them, and bring them back. There is many hours and many dollars spent on this particular problem. Is there soap and water . That is. Several news organizations have alleged that pregnant Migrant Women are not properly cared for once they cross the border. Can you explain how this pregnant migrants are processed and handled . I know you mentioned them. You can imagine a facility that is 400 over capacity. They could be in custody with cbp for some time before they are interviewed by an agent or officer. The agent and officer will not know unless you ask, or maybe that individual will tell them. When they are in detention in i. C. E. Custody, the single adults but do make it into i. C. E. Detention, they are quickly assessed medically within the first days of their stay in detention. Part of the assessment is a pregnancy test. Within a week . Sooner in most cases. Can you tell the difference between the testing between i. C. E. In cbp . Cbp does not do pregnancy test. The mission of cbp of the border is to move that individual downstream as quickly as possible. If it is a family, they get released. If it is a child, they get referred to hhs as quickly as possible. If they are a single adults, they get referred to i. C. E. For detention. You would assess the ability to process is appropriate for the migrants that are pregnant . No, this is an extraordinary circumstance. There are 500,000 people so far that have come to our border this year. Okay, and cbp Holding Facilities in i. C. E. Detention facilities, what types of Onsite Services are provided to the pregnant migrants in their children . I. C. E. Detention has the full range of medical care, law libraries, safe and sanitary conditions, that is designed for a long term stay. Everything you would find in a modern facility with cbp, they have adopted best as they can. Large numbers of poor family and children below. What resources do you believe would help cbp to do its job effectively, given the number of migrants here . They will continue to make modifications, they are going to add floorspace to these locations where they are seeing large influxes of children and families. I dont believe that is going to get out of the situation being discussed here today. Without a change in the law, these people will continue to come to our border in the conditions they come in. Thank you. Before i yield to ms. Presley, i want to enter six statements into the record. A statement from the american medical association, noting that the cbp facilities we have been discussing are not appropriate places for children or pregnant women. A statement expressing concern about Detention Center conditions for any clinical psychologist and trauma expert who has divided psychotherapy to the recently arrived immigrants. Carol martin, executive director of Trauma Recovery and ntr humanitarian assistance programs, and nonprofit working on treatment of psychological trauma, a statement from church world service, a religiousbased humanitarian group with refugee settlement services, in 17 states, opposing any undermining of Legal Protections of Migrant Children. The six statements from the nurses pediatric nurse practitioners, whose members work to provide care for Migrant Children, and estimate for migrant jones taylor, the chief officer for 0 to 3 and nonprofit advocate on behalf of babies and tolerance. Without any objection, i will submit them into the record. I recognize ms. Presley for 5 minutes. Thank you mr. Chairman. A couple of my questions were asked and answered. Im going to skip around a bit. Mr. Vitello, you indicated that cbp agents are simply following the letter of the law so to speak. I was just curious, because i happen to think of the law as a cruel and inhumane one. I hope you will elaborate further on the general culture, dehumanizing culture for all parties involved. I am just curious, in that oath that cbp agents take, does it offer anything about humanity . We know that they are not getting the training on the medical side in order to get the indicators of children that are in distress. Is there any sort of antibias training or cultural competency, or trauma informed training, which i think would be beneficial, whether you were talking about 72 hours, or the 60 days many are currently being detained. They do receive cultural training, that is part of the indoctrination when they come back from the Border Patrol academy, there is curriculum specifically designed for that. The 2014 crisis, we developed curriculum for agents to take as it relates to the crisis that was underway them, how to speak to children anymore accommodating way, how to get to their needs quicker. That training as part of what agents experience. When you talk about the family members, and what the law requires, we talked about adult families that were not mom and dad. Congress can help us here, they can change the law to relieve the liability from cbp so if someone is traveling with an adult relative, they can be held together and kept together. I appreciate that, thank you. I just want to get a couple more questions in. When everything just for the purpose of the record, is there anything in that oath that speaks to the humanity, and how cbp agents should be treating those that they are charged with their care and custody . That oath is the same when you take, it is the the oath of the constitution and the United States. If cbp is the countrys Law Enforcement agency, but the with the least amount of transparency and accountability. The same agencies that claim they did not have the resources to provide basic necessities, toothpaste and blankets for children, continue to find the resources to detain 1000s of additional migrants. It was recently reported that three new i. C. E. Facilities have opened throughout louisiana and mississippi in the last month since 2000, a number of Border Patrol agents has increased from 9000 to 19 19,500 agents. Since 2006, cbps budget has doubled, going from 7. 1 billion to 6. 7 billion. Again, we continue to see these abuses persist, which would lead me to understand this is not about capacity and everything to do with culture and a callousness and a correctness and a chaos. Does that sound right to you . It does. Money is not going to solve this problem. There is no doubt about it. Oversight is necessary. I would make a couple of quick points if i may. Congressman earlier mentioned that they felt the u. S. Policy was aiding and invading criminal cartels. I have to agree. I would point to two policies. The first is metering and ports of entry. Yesterday in warez, i spoke with a mother of an eight month old child. She had tried to present herself a report of entry, follow the law, follow the rules and say i seek asylum in the United States, she said taking number and wait your turn, they are taking 10 to 15 people on that bridge, she is Holding Number 17,000 . She is in war is, the United States government is seen fit under the migrant protection protocols. She said she should sit and warez were these cartels have access to her and her family. Do you think she is better off, or do you think we are aiding and abetting the cartels by having her sit in warez where they can actively pray on her, or by placing her in a Case Management program in the United States, were i. C. E. Itself has run a family case Manager Program pilot in which there was 99 attendance were i. C. E. Chickens and apartments, and 100 attendance at court hearings. Also, that program was much cheaper the month of children and families its costing 36 per family, compared to 319 per person at a family Detention Center. Absolutely. I would make one other point of the culture affected. Please i hope you will elaborate. Mr. Telles is the common term catch and release multiple times in this hearing. These are human beings, not trout. Present yourself at a port of entry to seek asylum is exercising a right under international law. You have not been caught, you have volunteered yourself. And being released advised that you will escape or attempt to escape, when again, in Case Management, 100 of these people showed up at their hearings. Everyone i have spoken to is trying to figure out how to follow the everchanging bizarre rules of this administration is creating on thefly. They are all trying to do the right thing. I think the sling which matters. Absolutely, thank you was to bring. The general ladies time has expired. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from wisconsin, mr. Grossman. Thank you mr. Vitelli oh, i would like to ask you a few questions, i was down on the border twice myself this year, once in the tucson sector, and once in the laredo sector. I was horrified at the situation. I know the Border Patrol down there was so frustrated hearing politicians call this a manufactured crisis, because they live the crisis every day and they know it was not manufactured. I know this hearing focuses on children dying. I heard in the tucson sector alone, about 250 people are dehydrated to death, coming into this country, i dont know how many of the other sectors. I also heard in the laredo sector, these drownings in the rio grande are not unusual. It frustrates me that so many people, however, do try to come in this country, we dont necessarily want them. I was just looking at a map a second ago, and guatemala, if you wanted to leave in guatemala, if you felt you were in danger there, i believe there are eight countries you could walk to quicker than the United States. Nevertheless, people apparently continue to keep trying to come to the United States. What can we do to prevent that . To me, as long as we continue to have people come here from all around the world, we are going to continue to have people dehydrate to death in the arizona desert. We will continue to have people drowned in the rio grande, and we will have the wonderful but overworked Border Patrol trying to deal with this flood of people. What can we do to stop this flood of people who i think should be here . Throughout my career, and at several important timelines in 2007 and 2014, we were facing similar surges. Although the magnitude of the one we are in now is much bigger than anything i have ever seen, it is extraordinary. When we put the policies in place, where people can be held in detention into the pendency of their immigration hearing, then they are even given relief under the ina, or they are repatriated with a cooperation of the country they came from. Under current laws, i understand if somebody here asks for asylum, and everybody i know feels the vast majority of these claims are unnecessary, you do not have to go through tons of other countries to get to the United States if your sole concern is danger at home. They told us they were releasing them in land, and they are giving them a hearing 3 to 5 years out. , just show up to get in the United States. Is that system contributing to people continuing to come here . Right, it is a completely rational act for people to come here, knowing they will be released and be out in this economy. In september, the department of justice, and the urging of the department of Homeland Security asked dhs to put a rocket docket together in 10 locations across the country for immigration proceedings for families to be heard quicker. When youre in detention, you are on a rocket docket. You will see the judge quickly. We when you are on a non detained docket, and some of these big cities, it will be years before you get to america. D. O. T. Put together that rocket docket in those 10 locations. Before i left government, they heard 3500 of those cases. Most of those cases, most of those 3500 cases, those individuals were ordered in abstention, because they never appeared to order a asylum claim or immigration proceeding. I notified those 3500 people, and asked them to come in on an order of supervision, so that they could then get back into the core cycle. Thousands of those people, again, did not show up. That has happened, thousands more have had their hearings since then. There is a Large Population who have come to the border recently, who claimed asylum, or release from cbp or ice custody, and failed to pursue their claims in court. How many percent didnt wind up in court . In april, that was a 90 no show. A 90 noshow . In here, we are trying to get more judges, and we beg and beg and cant get more judges here to make sure we find out right away whats going on. No wonder people are trying to come here and over flooding or report to patrol. Any other suggestions you have to prevent people, and maybe want to, too, because this hearing is supposed to be of about the kids, 250 people dying a year in the arizona desert, and the tucson sector alone, because people will not build a wall because they want the Current System to continue. Im sorry if i may, but the appearance rate among families are presented by counsel is 99. 9 99. 9 of families represented by counsel appear. The newest truck immigration report is 81 of recently released families ever had of the border attended their court hearings. Of those people released under the Current System, it is 3 to 5 years out. Mr. Vitelli oh, what percentage of people after hanging out, a 3 to 5 years, show up at their hearings . The rocket docket speeds from itself. From september to april, 3500 cases were heard. 90 of them were ordered in abstention, which means they did not appear. There is a big disagreement there, thank you. Is to bring, sorry you seemed to have wanted to respond to that . If you rocket docket people. The lusty process information you provide to people, they are less likely to show up in court, yes, absolutely of course they are. The answer is not lets deprive people of due process. Again, ices their own Case Management process. They were this project, and closed in 2016, and it worked. Instead we are detaining people who have been accused of no crime whatsoever, and then we are listening to a narrative that says we do not have the capacity and the resources to detain them. May also say quickly, very briefly, it turns out that the Immigration Court system is also under government control. And, this could be taken actions to change that 3 to 5 year delay investing in the court system, investing in due process, investing in representation, which makes the core system more efficient and fair. The chair recognizes the lady from michigan. Thank you so much chair women. I want to thank all of you so much for being here. As a former immigration attorney, i can tell you the system the system has completely deteriorated should have been changing it 20 years ago. If you have an issue with asylum, and some of us currently do, and it does take too long, because there are people that want a decision right away. And having the labs literally on hold because they have not had a decision is really impractical for their lives. They get so rooted here waiting 3 to 5 years, you think they want to, they dont. I have clients, and i worked in pro bono areas for years. And telling you, my heart breaks , honestly, the horrific suffering of these vulnerable imMigrant Children and families , seeing what i saw in el paso, but what is even more upsetting, is realizing the trump administrations cruelty towards migrants. Im going to call them families. They are families and children, is not just a bug in the system. It is the entire point, it is an ideology. Last week, President Donald Trump tweeted it is illegal immigrants, this is his words, are unhappy with conditions in the quickly built or refitted Detention Centers, just tell them not to come, all problems solved . He seems to be admitting that detention conditions are terrible, and that was intentional to deter migrants from coming. Mr. Brian, would you agree with that assessment . Absolutely not. If you and your children are trapped in a burning building, it does not matter how miserable i make it on the street, you will do whatever you can do to get out of that burning building with the kids. All it does is ramp up human suffering. That is exactly what he is trying to do. He thinks this will deter folks from coming, that is the whole point of the policy. I can tell you, i talked to three incredibly, i think sincere cpp agents, these Border Patrol agents took me aside, not in front of the others, because you know the model is on her first. So, there is a culture, you do not tell on each other. Three of them took me aside, what specifically sends stop throwing money at this. The issue of separation, that i was not even trying to separate a 2yearold from their mother. I was not trained to be a medical care worker, i was not trained to be a social worker, is what one agent told me. The other agent said, you understand, everybody is blaming us, but this is what was handed to us, is the separation policy. Ms. Frey, do you believe the cruelty is intentional . Ms. Long, do you agree that all of the problems will be solved if we tell asylumseekers not to come . As the poet has said, no one puts their child in a boat if the water is not, unit of the water is not safer than the land. That is indeed, when you talk to people, the people who are going through this cruel system, they are saying i had to leave, it was an option for me. Can i just say one thing representative, there has been concern raised about trafficking of children in this hearing. That is why i feel skeptical that that concern is real, unless policymakers are ready to invest in having decisions made and assessments made by people who are actually qualified to make this assessment. We are here, they have every power to legend introduce legislation to actually tackle Human Trafficking issues that we do know exists and we all want to address it. I want to pull up a slide of one of the childrens drawings that has been in one of the cages, Detention Centers, cans, whatever you refer to it. As a mother, if my child drew this i would be horrified. Is this normal behavior . Should be worried when we see children drawing pictures like this . The American Academy of pediatricians has warned against the longterm consequences of child attention, even child detention that occurs over short periods of times. This image is an image that shows, i think what that looks like, what that feels like to a child. It is incredibly traumatizing and can have lifelong impact. The increase in immigration detention reflex, only one thing, this administration has used prolonged conservation of asylumseekers and massive operations running above long Term Community members who pose no safety risk, lying on incarceration is the primary focus of Immigration Law currently it is a policy choice by the sub ministration. I want you to know, it has always been this way in the 80s. In the 80s, when numbers on the border even higher than they are today, the use of detention for immigration purposes was very unusual. In the 1990s, detention averages hovered around 5000, less than 1 10 of where we are today. There is a better way. And some of my colleagues talked about this. Instead, we can look at guidance on international agencies, evidencebased approaches, showing that Community Support programs that allows asylumseekers to live in the community while case is a process is cheaper and more effective. And, more importantly, it will put an end to the suffering of children. Thank you martin, yield the rest of my time. Thank you so much. The general lady yields. The chairman recognizes the gentleman from ohio, mr. Jordan. Mr. Breen, not that familiar with the Pilot Program we talked about. In that program, does the asylumseekers make the determination if they want to be in the program and get access to counsel . My understanding is the way it works is that the program, and we have a study on this i am happy to provide you, but the program essentially uses professional social workers to provide education to Family Service plans another Case Management supports. This is a pilot to see that i. C. E. Performed that my understanding, providing that, which is much less expensive. It was also done through private contractors by the way. Providing that was more effective at getting people to show up for court and attaining them until they show up. Again, to detain a family its about 300 a day in taxpayer money. This program is 12 a day per individual in taxpayer dollars. If we recommend repeating this program at scale with nongovernmental organizations though shes been used a 99 figure, what was that in relation to that is a tenants price check ins and appointments. For those who have counsel i thought you said . No those are the participants in this program. When they come to their court date, their court appearance, do they have counsel with them . Most do, some dont, that is 100 of Court Attendance again. This is professional soldier social workers providing an individual case manager approached. Does the asylumseekers make the choice in the front and to be on the program . I do not know the answer to that question. What you think they would, you are not forcing people to be in the program, right . You guys designs. My point is, you had one staff that says 99 show up, mr. Botelho said hardly any of them show up. Point would be there is little selfselection going on there. Knows congressman, i. C. E. Made the determination who was in the program and who is not asylumseekers they just pick them and they had to be in the program . That is correct. They are forced to be in the program . That is correct. My guess is, if you make a decision, you are going to show up, you will probably want a lawyer if you show up, if you make the decision not to show up, i dont want a lawyer, because i am not going to show up. This was the most effective way to get people to show up for court. In terms turns up this is a of a lot more to effective than detention. I would say in the 19 funding bill, after the one signed into the shutdown has resources for i. C. E. To restart this program, the sample we are talking about is a very small sample, it is less than 2000 people lots of incentive to be in the program, lots of social services on the individual as they are in the United States where for waiting for the hearing. It does not surprise me the compliance rate was high. Few people in that program, less than 2000, i think a handful of them got removed, the rest are still here. How many of those 2000 were legitimate asylumseekers . That is a matter of what i have been told is like 85 to 90 people seeking asylum are not asylumseekers under our law. There is a wide disparity between a number of people who are authorized for double fear screening, and going through the process, then gain asylum. There is a big difference. And the number of the silesia are small. The process for describing these Court Appearances are specifically to adjudicate who has a legitimate asylum claim. It is impossible to say outside that process. I asked a few questions. I am just curious on another unrelated, our different subject, different area. The folks who present themselves at the border, and actually, the 144,000 to happen in the month of may alone, do we know how many of them have, what percentage of them have family here, or what percentages first time, to most of them have family . That would be my assumption, i still know. I think typically they do. They are coming for a reason, if they dont have family, they soon will have people following them behind. That is typically the way immigration takes place. Sorry, i am expected to give return to the Ranking Member. You have 30 seconds and you are 5 minutes. Is it just me at this point . Ill take the 30 seconds, and in my time, and go. First of all, thank you all for being around here. It is late in the day obviously. We have been in this room all day. Thank you all for doing that. Just following up row click on what Ranking Member jordan just talked about, i guess my question is, i do not know all the data here. My concern has been in all of this, is that, and i think mr. Vitiello, we referenced this before, as of the magnet, right, the pressure, right . We have got northern triangle problem, desire to come to america, great. No disagreement on having the ability for that to occur, and no disagreement on figuring out how to have an asylum process for people seeking asylum, can seek asylum in the safest way possible. The question comes is, when allowing that to be an enormous magnet based on cartel property, and i think there is no disagreement, the cartels are profiting on the back of moving people from the northern travel to the United States. Might be some disagreements on the amount. It is hard to know for sure. But a significant amount of profit. My concern gets to the point of that, you were saying before, and mr. Jordan reference, when they get through to immigration judges, okay so you get past the incredible fear screening, you through the process, you get to the immigration judge, roughly right now, 12 are being found to have legitimate asylum claims. That is the data that i am aware of. Does that marry up with your understanding . Reporter i know the percentage is much lower than the actual flow of people coming to the border. Lots of people get a an incredible fair screen. That is the way the law works. That threshold is low. Many of them they do not going to get asylum. The reason i ask that is, i would like to know the answer to that. We are asking dhs the question, that is something for an oversight perspective. If that number is 90 , then that is a different reality than if it is 10 or 12 . I am being told it is 10 or 12 . If i go with that is the logic in i go holy cow, we have got this massive attraction, understandably, and we are allowing cartels to profit and drive people across our border, we are going through a hole process and saying 12 are qualifying for asylum under the traditional understanding of what our asylum laws represent. That is for persecuted individuals and so forth as opposed to your economy is bad or it is dangerous and so forth. This is what im trying to get out, mr. Vitiello, can you put a bit more of understanding as we close out here on the extent to which the vanessa faction in the gulf cartel, the cartel are profiting and moving people across the border for profit people . There are a couple of things there. It is my experience on the south side of the border, the cartels control territory, just like a Street Corner in a big city, you cartel will control the retail sales, at the border, the cartel controls the traffic, and who uses particular processes of land. There is a tech for anyone who moves to those territories. People are making money off the back of these people crossing the border the other thing that is happening, people are forced to pay bribes, smugglers are supposed to pay text to whatever patrols the, the territory they operate in. Actually pay criminal organizations for the trip up. Let me address another issue, that is something that my calling from new york addressed earlier, it is a reasonably she raised about cultural distinctions and people who show up at the border. They may claim family members or they are not, they are not necessarily a parent. My question is, is it not a reality, whatever the numbers are of that being a legitimate problem, is a not a reality that we have people that are definitively are not family members, that are using children as a passport to come to the United States mr. Vitiello . That is true. I will forward for your team up here, a meeting that cbp put out , i dont know the date here. In effect talks about isis surge to the border to try to identify how many families were actually legitimate. They did some pilot dna testing, and they found that there was a significant percentage of people who are manufacturing their relationships in order to get into custody, and quickly be released, because they had children with them. Is there intelligence indicating that in fact, they wouldnt, to my colleagues point, be a nonblood relative who is claiming to be a parent culturally or otherwise, that there is indication that cartels or other bad actors, or people for profit are moving people across falsely claiming to be a parent or guardian . I think it is an accurate depiction of the analysis that sometimes the adult relative is not a parent, but in fact our family, that is not how they qualify for release under the law. If they are not under an adult, they cannot be released to that other relative. So, congress can act here to expand the definition of adult relatives to include that the siblings or the aunt or the grandmother. I appreciate your testimony, and i would yield back to chairman. Thank you very much mr. Roy. We thought it was almost over, but we have a late entry from mr. Gomez who is a member of the committee. The mckinney release us from the clutches, to my remarks, miss long, you were shaking your head. Thank you so much. I just want to take issue with what how u. S. Law has been characterized. There is no law that requires the United States to separate nonparent families at the border this. This is part of the administrations there are a variety of policy options that could be employed here. Maintaining the designation as an unaccompanied child, but providing a screening by a qualified Child Welfare professional who could determine what the best interest of the child was in that context and release them under that after that screening to proceed with their immigration cases in the United States. Thank you for clarifying that. One of the things i want to kind of talk about, im just going to i like to remind people how this zero tolerance policy started. Remember that i believe it was Jeff Sessions that said it was to be a deterrent for families to come up here. If you come up here, your kids are going to be taken from you and thereby dont come. Yes, they claim that theres no zero tolerance policy, but what they decided to do is go from a civil administrative procedure to a criminal. Basically everybody that comes here that goes between the points of entry, that theyre in violation and they are ripping the kids away from the adult theyre with. That in itself is the policy of family separation. Its the mess that weve seen at the border has been predictable because a lot of the ideas are not based on some policy and rationale, but its based on politics. This president claimed that he was the only one that could fix all our issues. Hes proven hes the only one that can make them worse than they were before he started. So i want to make sure people remember that. That this is something that weve seen. I want to get to some questions regarding the border station in clint, texas. People have seen it, its become infamous. Miss long, you visited and interviewed children at the clint facility; correct . Correct. How long were you there and how many children did you talk to . June 17th to june 19th and i spoke with about 16th and i spoke with 17th and 19th in clint. The New York Times reported that the stench of the dirty Childrens Clothing was so strong, it was that consistent with your experience . It is. Can you describe what else struck you the most about the conditions of clint or other border stations you visited. The children were scared. They were hungry. They told us that they had no one to take care of them and their selves. When we contacted in some cases the parents, the parents were desperate, had no idea where their children were. Under the flores agreement, we do not have the right to inspect the facilities, but what we heard again and again from over 50 interviews was consistent. Children were denied access to showers, access to toothbrushes, sleeping on the floor. Did you on sunday, acting dh secretary was asked about allegations of inadequate food, water and sanitation at clint. He responded by saying unsubstantiated allegations last week created a sensation. Toured the clint station and saw the actual conditions there. A clean and wellmanaged facility and wellequipped process, end quote. Do you agree with the secretary that the allegations were unsubstantiated . I would ask the secretary whether he believes his own Departments Office of Inspector General and its inspections of other facilities in the area, whether the why after we raised the alarm at conditions at clint the agency was able to immediately transfer the majority of the children into the office of resettlement custody, even before the supplemental funding bill was approved. My interpretation is this. They dont do the right thing, unless a light is shone on to these facilities. And once it is, all of a sudden they start abiding by the laws, doing the right thing. I spent the night at the border in california with refugees that were seeking asylum. I know what some of their conditions and some of what theyre dealing with. Unless we find a way to really focus on that, to bring more attention, its going to continue. Mr. Chairman, i know im out of time. But there has been a lot of discussions about some of the culture within custom and Border Patrol. I wanted to submit for the record propublica piece inside the secret Border ControlGroup Without objection. Thank you, mr. Gomez. We recognize miss maloney for 5 minutes. I want to thank you, mr. Chairman, really for your attention to this and to all of the panelists and i want to ask some questions about the treatment of pregnant women at the border. But really, id like to ask each of you to comment on where we stand. As you know, we just voted 4. 7 billion to go to the border. Many of us had humanitarian concerns and humanitarian requirements and oversight and accountability requirements. This was refused to be part of the bill by leader mcconnell. So it came back to the house and we knew it was going to the border, but many of us voted against it because these conditions were not added to it. And id like to just go down the line, starting with you, mr. Breen, on what you think we can concretely do through laws to clean this mess up. This is not america. Its a horror show. I cant believe the stories that were reading. So what do you think . Were now legislating the amendments that were stripped out. Id like to hear from you because youre on the front lines every day addressing this problem. I want to thank you for your work. If you were a legislator, what would you be working on to make this better for america, for migrants, for everyone . Thank you, congress woman. I have to agree money alone will not solve this problem. There are a number of policy choices that have been made here that are making things considerably worse, not better. There are a number of very specific recommendations. In the interest of time, ill quickly summarize. There is a lot that congress can do. One is to end the unnecessary and unjust detention of Asylum Seekers. We are overwhelmingly likely to show up in court if given the opportunity. I think we should be legislating access to custody and bond hearings for all Asylum Seekers. Theres no reason to be detaining these people at tax wears expense. Migrant protection protocols that the people back into horrific conditions on the border where they are preyed on by artals. The exact opposite of policy. I could go on, but ill let others. Thank you very much. In the interest of time, ill try to focus on the recommendations that are different than those that have been put on the table. First, i want to emphasize the closed nature of cvp facilities like the one at clint that i visited. Hope has visited previously. Congress has urgently pushed cvp allow independent monitors in the facilities. Allow independent doctors in those facilities. Ensure that they do not remain black sights where children can be held incommunicado for weeks. Let me throw out real quick. A lot of people want to help. They want to donate. We have Doctors Without Borders going around the world to help people. They want to go to the border to help and volunteer. Theyre cut off from helping. This toothpaste i mean, i could call i would send the toothbrushes and toothpaste down. But theyre blocking. The private sector can give it. How do we break through that . There are communities along the border that are providing excellent models of humanitarian response for arrivals of Asylum Seekers. The a nonesiation house in el paso, the sacred heart church, among many others, shelters that are taking migrants when they get out of custody, providing clothes, food, a bit of respite. That is the modeel the United States should be exploring when it comes to Asylum Seekers at the border. Time is expired. Thank you very much. If youd like to submit it in writing, id love to see it. Mr. Roy is seeking one minute to address the issue of charitable donations. I would like to add that i too believe we ought to make sure there are no barriers between people and whoever wants to provide services and help in any way. Thats any deficiencies act out of the way or make sure materials can be delivered. We ought to look at expanding that. If doctors want to provide their services pro bono, we should have those conversations as well. The thing on the toothpaste, the rooms ive seen down there, in clint over the weekend, there was roomfuls of some of those materials. There is discrepancies on the information, but we should remove all barriers. It does matter. We have Border Patrol who are working hard every day to do the right thing. I think the witnesses would agree on that. Some may not. It is important to recognize the hard work, the lives being saved every day. I want to thank the Ranking Member. I want to thank the vice chair. I want to thank miss jordan. And youre on for 5 minutes. I just want to speak 4 minutes and 30 seconds. Ficould get an extra 30. I just have a quick question. Im just curious, mr. Breen, what do you think the number is of folks who are in the country in some illegal capacity . Whether theyre overstays, visa overstays or assigned a court date or got across the border. Im just curious what the panel thinks because we hear 11 million all the time, but weve seen this influx over the last couple years. Im curious what you think the overall number is. Congressman my response to that is to say that i mean, im a lawyer by training as many in this room are. I believe in the american justice system. I believe in the rule of law. We have a system to adjudicate that question. Its an Asylum Seeker to be qualified for asylum under u. S. Law. And i think we ought to make it as easy as we possibly can for an individual who wants to make that claim and exercise the right to do so under the system we have. Theres a question about how many people are legitimate or illegitimate Asylum Seekers. We had a system to adjudicate that. That system is backlogged. The consequences are to make it much slower. I dont want to prolong a long day. Im not trying to get in a debate. Im curious what people who are in this field and study this from both sides maybe all sides of the political spectrum, what you think the number is. I dont know that we know. And we also actually slightly different issue, but we got this question about asking that question on the census. Seems like the easiest way to figure it out. Im curious what you all think it is. Ill defer to others if they want to give you an answer to that. Well pick it up another day. Were not going to get into the census before we close here. I want to thank mr. Jordan i want to thank all of our wonderful witnessed it. Its been an emotional roller coaster. We saw extraordinary testimony from miss juarez, which has shocked the conscious of the country. You have offered us tremendous factual information, great analytical frameworks for understanding that and terrific ideas for going forward. Dont think it disappears into the ether. Were going to follow up on all of the great ideas that you have suggested today and weve seen a great bipartisan discussion. Lets hope we can move together across the aisle to confront this situation. Working together to make this long day work. As well as it can. Thank you. Thanks and with that objection, all members will have 5 legislative days within which to submit additional questions for the witnesses to the chair which ill forward to the witnesses for response. I ask the witnesses to please respond as promptly as you can to further questions. This hearing is adjourned. Today theres been discussion about an appearance before congress. Any testimony before this office would not go beyond on a report. It contains our findings and analysis and the reasons for the decisions we made. We chose those words carefully and the work speaks for itself. And the report is my testimony. I would not provide information beyond that which is already public in any appearance before congress. Former special Counsel Robert Mueller is set to appear before two mitties of congress on wednesday july 15th. At 9 00 a. M. Eastern, he gives testimony to the house judiciary committee. It will be live on c span 3, online at cspan. Org. If youd like to hear the complete reading of the mueller report, listen. Volume one airs friday and saturday at 7 00 p. M. Eastern and volume 2 will air monday and tuesday, also at 7 00 p. M. Eastern. Now a hearing on the impact of Climate Change and Natural Disaster preparedness efforts. The House Oversight and reform subcommito environment heard from witnesses including james