Share with us firsthand accounts of their experience during the holocaust. Each of our firstperson guests serves as a volunteer here at this museum. Our program will continue until august 8. The Museum Website is www. Usaid ww. Ush. Orgw provides information. She will share her first person account of her experience during the holocaust and as a survivor for about 45 minutes. If we have time at the end of the program, we will have an opportunity for you to ask her questions. If we dont get to your questions today, please join us in our online conversation, never stop asking why. The conversation aims to inspire individuals to ask the important questions holocaust history raises. You can ask your question and tag the museum on twitter, facebook and instagram using holocaustmuseuam and the hashtag askwhy. Please look at the first person website listed on your program. What you are about to hear is one individuals account of the holocaust. We have prepared a brief slide presentation to help with her introduction. Born januarywas 31, 1938 in zagreb, yugoslavia, presentday croatia. We see her sitting on a park bench with her younger brother. On this match map of yugoslavia in 1933, the arrow points to zagreb. In this motor we see dora on an outing to the zoo with her parents solomon and silva. Solomon ran a brush making factory and silva was a teacher. Pictured here is her maternal grandfather, rabbi look Joseph Leopold deutsch. When she was visiting her grandparents in the small town of germany invaded yugoslavia. Ais town became part of puppet state run by the croatian fascists. In june 1941 doras parents and her brother were arrested. Their housekeeper was able to the brother, and infant, out of prison. From then on, dora and her brother were sheltered by her mothers sister. We see the aunt and uncle here in this photo taken any years later. We close with this portrait of the aunt, she and her brother meant to be sent to the after he had been interned in the concentration camp. In 1943 the aunt was announced and sent to auschwitz where she perished. Dora remained in yugoslavia until 1957, and in 1958 immigrated to the United States. In 1957 on her way to switzerland, she met daniel klayman, returning to new york from a year of postdoctoral study as a fulbright scholar in india. They were married in switzerland a year later and together arrived in the United States in the fall of 1958. The following year dan and dora came to washington, dc and dan began his career as a researcher in medicinal chemistry at the Walter Reed Army institute. His work dominated in his expertise in Drug Development against malaria. After the birth of their two children, wanda and elliott, dora resumed her education, getting degrees in french and teaching english as a second language. She taught in montgomery county, maryland Public Schools including 23 years at Bethesda Chevy Chase High School where she headed the english as a second language department. Dan passed away in 1992. Both of their children live in the washington area. Wanda is the Deputy Assistant director of an International Association that deals with transportation. Elliott is a freelance videographer and owns a Video Production company. He is married and has three 24, 22 and 15. After dora retired from fulltime teaching in 1999, she became active as a volunteer with this museum. Her work here consists of translating and helping to Research Material from the holocaust written in croatian, bosnian and serbian. Her original project was connected to the archive. We will hear later, that was a major concentration camp in croatia. Other projects for her included the translation of a booklet that accompanied in 1942 antisemitic exhibit in croatia and the translation of the captions on a large archive of photographs that have been gathered during the post world war ii trials in yugoslavia. To add to her link which skills, she continues to learn hebrew. She enjoys traveling. She has been to israel several times where she was happy to reunite with her cousins and their families. Some of her travels are connected to learning more about the events and aftermath of the holocaust. She has attended several conferences of the International Organization of child survivors including in poland in 2011 when she visited auschwitz for the first time and in berlin in 2014 where she was impressed by the effort made by that country to teach about and remember the holocaust. In 2014 she visited the memorial site of the infamous concentration camp in croatia or most of her family perished very last summer she returned to croatia, visiting the cemetery at the former concentration camp , probably the site of her mothers death. She speaks publicly in other settings including small groups are in the museum and local schools in the vicinity, and recently added Interdenominational Services for yom ha shoah. Please welcome mrs. Dora klayman. [applause] dora, thank you so much for joining us, being willing to be our firstperson today. You have so much to share with us in our short one hour to doug other one hour together. We will get right to it. You were three years old when world war ii came directly to yugoslavia in 1941, when it was attacked i germany. Before we turn to the horrors of , start by telling us about your family and your community in the years before the war. Family hadnt been in croatia for a very long time when the war actually happened. By a very long time, i mean not for generations. My father was actually born in romania, but they immigrated into yugoslavia when he was a very done child. And then they settled in some grub. My mothers family in zagreb. My foot mothers family my mothers family came to a small town north of zagreb near the hungarian border. They came so that my grandfather could serve asvery done child. And then they settled in some rabbi to a small Jewish Community there. Slovakiaally came from , and they had when they arrived, they had two children and that they had two more including my mother. My mother was the youngest. At the by the time war started, my grandfather had been a rabbi there for two years. They had been living there for a long time, just not generations. By the time war came around, all the children of my mothers family had been working. My mother in particular became a teacher. An Elementary School teacher. Then married my father who came in from zagreb and they moved to zagreb. The other children in the family, especially important members of the family, to me, re might mothers sister mothers sister who was married and had two children, and the sister who was older and who was actually born outside of croatia, with whom who arrived with the parents early on. She was 15 years older than my mother, so she was almost a motheri mother quasi to my mother. She was 15 years older than my tookr, so she very much care of my mother and eventually took care of me. Said, ran thisou factory. , then byd the craft the time war started, there were about 12 workmen, and they were prospering and doing well. That is more or less the family. Bill you explained to me that , theyr mothers hometown had been an integrated community. What did you mean by that . Theodora i mean that there was littley some, but very in comparison to other places overt antisemitism. Grandfatherered, my that wouldnor events , andbeled as antisemitic he served as a translator for germanhungarian, in he taught jewish children the religious classes that they had in the Elementary School. The Elementary School children had religious education as part of their day, and the catholic the orthodox and myr was there grandfather taught the jewish children. The Jewish Community was rather welltodo,airly and they were either store owners or there was a lawyer, a doctor. Is thatresting thing you take a look at pictures, which are available online, take a look at pictures of the community and there are tennis and catholics playing together. 100 was practically 90 Roman Catholic world. Serb orthodoxe villages around there, but generally, this was a catholic world. Integration and certain economic and educational integration. Bill thank you for explaining that. When germany launched its attack on yugoslavia in 1941, you were away from side grab on a visit a visit with relatives. Tell us about why you are away and what happened when the germans came into yugoslavia . Because ii was away was three years old and my baby, myst had another brother. He was three years younger. We were both born in january 3 years apart. Visit and myme to parents decided to send me to visit with my grandparents because there was an opportunity to get me on the train. I have that image, being on the train was very exciting. Even though i was very young, i remember. I still dont know why i was sent. They all knew that the war was imminent, but i dont think that was the reason they sent me. I think they sent me because first of all to visit grandparents and aunts and the other one, possibly, because my mother just had a baby, so it was a good thing to send me away for a bit. I just happened to be at my april, when that germany invaded. Bill let me jump in for a minute. You said they knew that war was probably imminent. Did your parents or other members of the family, did any make attempts to try to leave yugoslavia before the germans came in . Theodora not before. There was actually no place to go. That was the problem. That is what we are talking about a lot these days. People say why didnt you leave, but there was no place to go. That was one thing. , i dont thing is think they knew exactly how things were going to work out. Eventually, some people tried to uncle,and my aunt and with my two cousins did manage to get passes to leave. Where to . To the italian zone. I dont want to jump ahead, but what happened when germany invaded, the country of yugoslavia fell apart. Partsr less into the same that it is in now, in that croatia became a country, werenia, serbia and so on really taken over by germany, but the part of croatia that is along the adriatic, which everyone these days wants to visit, it is very beautiful, that was actually occupied by italy. Were, i think it was , that i dont know italians dealt with jews in a much more humane way than germans and that it turned out the local population did not deal with us very well. So, how did croatia become a country all of the sudden by itself . It was certainly not an independent country, though that is what it called itself. It called itself independent state of croatia. It was a puppet government. How did that become . There was a political right, very nationalistic right that itselfto have croatia by members of other former yugoslavia, which of course, yugoslavia became a country after world war i. Jewswanted to have the they talked about what was jews. Free of the croatian right wing did not succeed. They did not succeed in taking over the country by democratic pact, so they made a instead, they went to italy on their own and got themselves together, made a pact with , there is ah hitler picture you can see with the head of that government shaking hands with hitler. They made a pact. Germans, let us run this country and we will do whatever you want us to do and we will all be nice. That is how they came to power. Then, as they said, they would run everything exactly the way the germans wanted them. That is exactly what they did. Question, myh the to getd uncle managed these passes to go to the italian zone, but unfortunately, never made it all the way. The head of the government said, just return and you will be fine. He made a proclamation and they believed it. So, they returned only to be taken, sent to concentration camps in a very short time. Uncle and aunt and other family members learned that your parents had been arrested and sent to a concentration camp, but that your brother had been saved from deportation. Tell us about what happened to your parents and about your brother and how you were able to leave to be reunited with your brother. You told us you were away. Theodora right. Actually, my parents got the deportation started fast after they took over. They barely had the time to establish camps and they were starting to deport people. First they were deporting them formerrmer hospitals hospitals or other places they would find spaces, but eventually, there were camps. Taken fairlyre early and they were not yet in camps. They were in the transfer camps. They were still in zagreb before they were actually shipped away. Whatousekeeper found out askeded and she went and if she could have my baby handed, and my mother allowed er and gave the baby to be housekeeper in the hope that she would call the relatives and he would safe, which she did, and so, she uncle andaunt and my. Hey came to get him i have a fairly clear memory of his arrival. The baby was crying. Bill that is one of the early memories you have upcoming into the house. In 1942, your parents have been deported, you and your baby brother are living with your aunt and uncle. In 1942, your uncle was arrested and sentenced to the concentration camp. You and your brother remained with your aunt. Tell us about your uncles imprisonment and what that meant for you and your brother, living with her aunt. It might be worth explaining your uncle. Theodora also probably backing off a little bit timewise, because in 1942, what happened was all the jews were deported. That happened much before my uncle was deported. Bill he was not jewish. Theodora he was not jewish. And my uncle were in love for a very long time. , she wass i mentioned 15 years older than my brother and he was 10 years older than she, which played a role. He was her boss in a sense. She was working in the local bank and he was one of the directors of the bank. Love but they did not get married for a very long time. , later on i used to ask him, why did you not get married for such a long time . He would say, she was very happy living with her mother and i was happy living with my mother, so there was no need. It is an excuse, i am sure. She wast want to say, jewish and i was not and there were problems. Not the kindwere that one can imagine. There were no problems within the family. Peoples a picture which can see online if they want of the whole family. Everybody is jewish except my uncle who is in the center. It is a picture of my parents wedding, so he was always included in everything, but neither was converting to the others religion. There was no civil ceremony available in yugoslavia. Bill on the religious marriage. Theodora there were only religious marriages. At one point before the war started, the war was raging in the rest of europe, they went to hungary, which had a civil , civil system of marriage. In 1939. Married they thought of course that it would save her, because they had heard that sometimes in mixed marriages, the one that was not jewish could save the spouse who was jewish. So they got married. That is who they were. Andg also again everyone was there. Bill i might mention, your uncle was a fairly prominent man. Theodora a very prominent man. He was the Bank Director and had been a mayor. He was very wellknown, very highly respected in that town. Was totally into music, played the violin, had a group that played Chamber Music and was truly a pillar of the society. Family was sort of a minor aristocracy, but strangely enough, not very healthy. His brothers and sisters pretty much died young and none of them married before dying. They were all young, dying of tuberculosis and all kinds of things that people used to die of that we would now cure with time ilin, so by the came on the scene, there was only one sister alive. Of the 12 of them. Married and she was , so she was the only person i actually ever got to know of that family, except very distant cousins. Anyway, back to the deportations. Deportations were awful. Have,s one memory that i it was 1942, so i was like four remember, but i everybody coming to our house, i with them and everybody coming, carrying satchels and i remember pillows and saying goodbye to me and crying. My brother and i were there and i am sure i didnt know what was going on, but i know that everybody else was very upset. It was upsetting to me as a child. That was that. They disappeared and they were off to which became horrible camps. Bill we will come back to that. So here you are with your aunt and uncle and then your uncle, who is not jewish, he gets arrested. Theodora there was a reason for that and i need to start with. The reason for that, that was 1943 now, somewhat later the reason for that was, even though croatia was so happy to accept all of the german nuremberg laws , a lot of people did not go along with that. Of course, croatia now had its own army, its own laws. Lawshe laws where the same that germany had. Bill so all the restrictions. Theodora no jobs, no school. All your worldly goods were confiscated and you had to write down everything you owned. Museumre papers in this that we found that our my little down onead to write necklace, one winter coat, three dresses. Reported. Had to be it could be taken away. Of course, housing, all of that. So, a lot of people did not go along with that. Many in croatia at the time, hats off, because they not only did not go along quietly, but they went into the mountains and. Ecame a partisan force it started slowly and more and more people went and eventually, it became quite a force that fought the nazis. I saw very few germans at any point. Forces. Y saw the other there was constant fighting. Part wherento the the partisans would be in the and the others were in the town. Andpartisans would attack those were horrible fights. Sometimes, the partisans would win and sometimes the others. Was liberatedy for a certain time. Since they were not very happy, they would look for who is responsible. One of the things they said is the people in town are probably helping them. Is they gathered some of the regarded people in town, including my uncle, and there were about five of them i think and they sent them that is how we ended up there. The difference between sending jews and sending someone like my uncle was in a sense that he was a prisoner of war. Im sorry, he was a political prisoner. He was a political prisoner and Political Prisoners were treated somewhat differently. They were given a sentence of sort. Short jews, like the first group of my family that went, they were just killed outright or put to work and fed extremely mea