Transcripts For CSPAN3 Central American Migration Discussion

CSPAN3 Central American Migration Discussion At Migration Policy Institute... July 13, 2024

Everybody. Im andy schoen holtz. Our students represent Asylum Seekers and deportation hearings. And actually handle a case from beginning to end for Asylum Seekers all over the world. My colleague pfizer saed is well and dina sharouk may be here. We have three lawyers each semester, 12 students, the clinic has been doing this for i guess 24 years. I think phil started the asylum part of this in 1995. We also have courses on immigration and refugee law as well as we started last year to send volunteers to texas to the two major detention facilities that are housing women with children, detaining women and children to help prepare the women for a credible fear interviews and to do other work to assist the families. And we are sending two groups again, 14 volunteers, we went to break and spring break down there, thanks to a georgetown alum who has funded that travel and we have a human rights bracket couple that has engaged on these issues for years. This year its looking at the root causes of International Immigration in our hemisphere and is examining one of the major issues to save their country issue. Which brings us to our panel. Because we thought it would be a Good Opportunity to hear from these experts, with respect to the humanitarian and migration crisis that has been going on the Central America and the need for regional approaches. We have three experts who will give us different analyses to help address different parts of this problem and that is ive asked anthony fontes, who is a professor at american university, an expert on Human Security in Central America to talk to us about those challenging issues. What is the securities situation . What are the challenges in trying to address it . There have been some attempts, not major attempts, but hes the expert. I will let him talk about those things. I think our community will really benefit from understanding more about how to address whats going on in the region in these countries, in particular. Then, fortunately, we also have pary meyer, who is a director for mexico and market weiss at the Washington Office latin america. She has been laboring for many years in with focusing on these, this Protection System in mexico to the extent it exists and she will talk to us about precisely what thats about. You heard this morning that because of the new transit, the third policy that the Trump Administration has put out more recently to try to deter Asylum Seekers from coming to the United States, the policy is that people in transit are now have to apply for asylum on the way. At least thats what the goal of that is. So well hear about how, what that really means in a country which has a has, well hear from the expert about that. I wont say more. Finally, fortunately, we have the deputy Regional Representative for the u. S. And caribbean at the u. N. And high commissioner for the Refugees Office and she will be talking about the regional approach, approaches i should say that would really benefit the abilities if of our entire International Community to protect refugees who are fleeing from very serious harm. Both in terms of the Refugee Convention and the declaration right which extends protection to refugee was are fleeing from very serious violent civil war, et cetera. This is a regional crisis. There are Central American countries that have received many refugees as well and who are trying to or could use some help in addressing those needs. So, thank you very much, everybody, for coming. We will have some time for, of course, q a. So let us begin with professor fontes who will talk to us about the security situation in the countries that he is particularly focused on in Central America and thank you for being here. Thank you, andrew. Thank you very much and thanks so much for putting on this amazing venue. I think its one of the most important conversations that could be happening in america right now. So well start with a little story. In july, 2016, i spoke with a 20yearold guatemalan man wilmer in mexico looking to cross into the United States. For people like me, he said, my country is like a cage with no way out. We are waiting with dozens of other Central Americans to hop a northbound freight train. We all know this journey is dangerous, we might fail, we might die. But at least there is some hope at the end of it. So the little time i have here, im going to try to give you overview of the forces like wilmer feel so hopeless in their native lands and what might be done to resolve these issues. In my initial talk i will probably talk about the challenges and get to those solutions in the q a. All right. So im going to focus on the making of the Central American cage to push the metaphor to understand the complex played between poverty, violence and the drive out migration from the region. So im an ethnographer and in this talk im going to try to link my field work with the macroprocesses that help understand. The evolution of violence and security. The persistence of poverty in the region and how both poverty and insecurity entwine in a myriad of ways in pushing individual cases about migration and trends in general. So the first thing to understand about the region is that northern triangle has long been a place where globally circulating violence and insecurity seem to become distilled and erupt in intensity. What is now known as old violence among people in the northern triangle, at the height of the cold war, over armed military governments if guatemala and el salvador train fund and given political cover by the United States engage in massive atrocities against mostly civilian populations were suspected of supporting insurgenesis towards the world governments. These insurgencies became involved they allowed them to engage in the most basic activities, forming elections, forming unions, learning to read. Hearn heed the calls of the social movements, called a prepared vision of economic and political opportunities from a diverse range of voices, the over armed militaries in the 1970s and 80s scorched earth campaigns claimed hundreds of thousands of lives. The bloodiest theater was gat mala where i have done most of my work. This also drove the first massive waves out of the regions in mexico and the occupation. Those of us engaged in a long time, i think of parallels and echoes from that time with the situation that Central Americans face now. Although now, the kind of violence that are taking place are very, very different. Since the end of the cold war, the rise of what scholars called the new violence has really hit hard in the northern triangle, honduras, gat mallarguatemala, salvador. The rise has been criminal chaos in the words described by many observers in the region. This new violence is very difficult to pick apart. The legacies of Armed Conflicts are important. They haunt the post world order and end of Armed Conflict did not bring peace as we would imagine it. So through the 1990s, guatemala, el salvador and honduras saw a sharp rise in violence, in gat mala city, san pred dro, san salvadore, et cetera. This new violence is harder to diagnose. Deposit officials and outside observers tend to gauge it through homicide accounts. In the 21st century honduras and guatemala reported the largest, coming in the top five consistently until the last few years where things have gotten moderately better at least in the counting of dead bodies. But, in a sense, so heres the 2018 homicide map in guatemala, you see the concentration of the highest murder rates in Border Regions. I will talk about that. It has much to do with the drug trade and the competition between different organizations for control of lucrative border crossings. El salvador is primarily affected by gangrelated violence, the gangs are not as clear cut as the media and law enforce, violence is more equally spread through the country. Then honduras is in many ways in between guatemala and el salvador, major issues of Gang Violence in urban centers as well as along major drug tracking corridors in the northern and western parts of the country. So, you know, homicide counts all well and good as a way of gauging whats happening in terms of violence. In a sense, these body counts obscure more than they reveal. As hard and fast as the numbers may seem. What makes this violence so terrifying to so many is its profound uncertainty, across the region less than 5 of crimes make it to trial, making the northern triangle a great place to commit murder. Forces of order and disorder often make distorted reflections, at best the awe appears helpless and at worse police it, making murder, extortion, kidnapping robbery wrong and badly refined. The police make the factors with gangs and so on they are supposed to be bringing to justice. Its more a massacre, torture, dismemberment and other spectacular forms of violence that are literally made for the media consumption. Make murder registered far and wide beyond its particular local. So the ccaucophony, in violent stricken communities warps this into every day realm of life. So, this uncertainty, this general sense that no one is to be trusted i think explains why, for example, homicide rates across the region have especially dropped, especially if you check out this image up here on buddhas which is essentially cut in half the number murdered 100,000 per year between 2013 and 2018. The fact is general levels of fear, paranoia and pervasive insecurity remain very, very high, in fact, almost untouched. The general population has no trust that their government can effectively combat crime much less count the dead and understand the state and its under worldco exist in deep symbiotic relationships. There is a strong sense that agents are a key player in crime and impunity as they are with estimates of police in payable organized crime ranging between 30 and 60 in total. This makes for violent actor ecosystem. The those at the top are widely considered to be Drug Trafficking organizations. Right . This is a map from 2016. I couldnt find one from more recently that was as telling. But things havent changed much. But an estimation of the number of noncommercial boating incidents connecting the Southern Cone to the northern triangle and its a way of measuring not the amount of coc going through the region. So the impunity, the criminal actors, especially the drug orgs enjoy is truly awe inspiring. And the drug traffickers are probably at the height of the very top end of the violent actor food cane in this part of the world. Over the last 30 years, the u. S. War on drug has pushed the flow of cocaine and a list of commodities through honduras and guatemala away from the caribbean out of mexico and into primarily honduras and guatemala. Today its believed upwards 90 of the cocaine consumed by the north american nose comes to honduras and guatemalan territory. And the profits empower the Drug Trafficking circulated at every level of state power. So this is an image drawn from a work of my friend Steven Dudley inside crime at latin american university. It details the connection between the lead narco traffickers until his capture five or six years ago in the western part of the guatemala. It details his level of interaction and involvement and infiltration of the various levels of government, Civil Society, evangelical churches as well as local politics and local businesses as well. Its another example. This is the cachiros, a major drug trafficing in honduras has been captured and leader extra indicted. Although the kingpin strategy doesnt work. It only leads to sort of more violence and competition between the surviving groups that are still there. This is a multibillion dhar industry, so taking out the leaders only makes the underlings more ambitious. But this also details a circulation of power and influence between Drug Trafficking organizations and the powers that be in those particular countries. Particularly a salient example of this is one orlando hernandez, president of honduras. Hes a u. S. Partner in signing a ridiculous third country agreement. My colleague will talk about. Also his brother is facing a trial in new york involving narco trafficking. There is much talk that his, that juan orlandos or as he is known in hasnt dur ross ho has received at least a Million Dollars in funding from narco traffickers associated with his brother, allegedly. All right. The other sort of most, most invisible violent actors in Central America are, of course, gangs. This is probably an image many of have you seen hins early 90s, the ms13, 18th street have sort of the very face of crime in the region. And for those of you that dont know, they are borne out of circular migration in Central America. Ms13 have morphed into extortion machines in Central America. Especially in honduras. The ms13 is involved in urban drug market distribution. Some say taking the place of the Drug Trafficking organizations that were taken out by u. S. Da efforts and have sort of sub seouled a higher level of involvement in transnational traffic of cocaine. So, gangs like ms13 and the body primarily is an urban phenomenon. Part of my work, much of my work is evolved in changing the evolution of gangs and a way of violence and society has been to try to get beneath that fans thatmick oracle behind bars by and large is a much smaller part in the gang population has been because of increased enforcement against people and so on and so forth. These days, an important thing to understand for asylum gangs is they are embedded in the communities of which they rule. You cant pull apart the police, the local community and the operation of the gangs, which is one of the reasons that makes it such a terrifying phenomenon. Literally its neighbors fighting and killinger that neighbors. So this is the gang extortion network, some 36 people indicted in this. These are mothers, daughters, sisters and wifes of incarcerated gang members involved in an extortion network. Another gang member ms13 in a gat mallan prison. Another young man 19 at the time. He has a typical pro typical face and an image he painted with his 4yearold daughter in his visiting quarters in prison. So, these gangs have become the very face of crime as i said. An important criminal actors ordering life in areas they control. Theyre also a smoke screen. Its important to remember. A spectre invoked overed and over again by political actors who extract the populous, who extract outside observers from a host of structural factors that feed out of control and security. Now, theres a tendency also to call the violence thats happening today nonstate violence. I think thats a dangerous misnomer. Because or even nonpolitical violence. Its a mistake to imagine the state, guatemalan, honduran, El Salvadoran state as having no part perpetuating the violence today. Whether its weakness or outright complicity, agents play key roles in feeding off the violent impunity that drives out migration. There is literally almost no way to draw the state apart from the criminal under world upon which it rests. All right. The so, now, poverty. Poverty in the region remains as pressing if not quite as widespread as it was in the 1970s and 80s as when i said before, massive social movements helped drive armed insurrection. Now, part of this issue is that there are no formal market jobs. In 2018, more than 300,000 Central Americans joined the labor pool, while there were 4,000 jobs, these were concentrated in urban areas. So that relegates the vast majority of Central Americans, especially rural Central Americans scraping by in this informal market. The economies, themselves, depend upon export of a few commodities, primarily u. S. Markets and they employ a tiny fraction of the work force, tequila, sugar cane, some manufactured goods and one rising export industry is actually call centers for u. S. Businesses. Right, employing deportees because of their unaccented english. Always an opportunity. Right . All right. So, this general reliance on a few commodities meant for exports to primarily u. S. Markets creates a society split between an extremely small and rich elite group at the top and masses at the bottom with a tiny sliver of a fairly desperate clinging to the middle. Overall inequality in the region is stunning and it appears to be worsening. So one important pressure valve has always been for the last 30 years or so and growing in importance is remittances from the u. S. A recent study at interamerican dialogue found that remittances make up 50 of Household Incomes for one in three families in the region. One can only imagine what will happen when that life line starts slimming down, if the present administrations actions against immigrants continue. So, you know, this issue of this dichotomy between Asylum Seekers and economic migrants is something that plays a lot into discourse around against immigration and people are just coming to take jobs and so on and so forth. Its true that many people are going for economic reasons, but another man i met from honduras who was traveling through mexico said it was either immigrate or listen to my children crying because theyre hungry. What would you do . To which i dont have a viable answer. So how do they entwine . A recent survey found one in four northern triangle citizens would like to immigrate. A lot more than actually do. The

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