Transcripts For CSPAN3 World War II Fighter Pilots 20240713

CSPAN3 World War II Fighter Pilots July 13, 2024

For those of us that have served , particularly those of us that have faced combat that opening scene is something that you will never forget. I hope you never forget. The scene that is most important to me came later in the movie. Tom hanks is laying on the rubble and he called over private ryan. He asked him to kneel down. He said to him to words. Earn this. Any victory Worth Winning must be deserved. As the victories are increased in scale so must be our exertion. Victory, Winston Churchill says, we shall not win through the evils in our enemy. We shall win through the merit in ourselves. Deserved victory. Let that be the touchstone of every thought, word, and deed. I think about that pretty much every day. To my ownng expectations let alone the expectations of younger others. Today we will hear from people who earned victory. Yesterday and the day before we heard from a lot of people on the ground. We will hear this morning from some incredible legends that thought and hair. It is truly my pleasure to introduce mr. Gary burton. Aj is a past president of the Tuskegee Airmen Association East coast chapter, former air force veteran. With that we will begin todays program. [applause] thank you, everyone. It is my honor to be in the room again with original tuskegee government and a second pow in the room. Another Fighter Pilot from world war ii. You will have a special treat of gentlemen that a lot of people dont know are still around. I want torther ado make sure you have enough time to see them all. Lieutenant colonel james harvey the third. [applause] colonel harvey is a Fighter Pilot of three wars. Next we will have lt. Col. Alexander jefferson. [applause] colonel jefferson is a combat , t, p. O. W. Joseph. [applause] the colonel has a special designation with his name as well. Colonel mason. Mace. Onel he did 49 missions before becoming a pow. Somehow he escaped and evaded lew with theh f russian army, incredible stuff. Lets give them all around applause. [applause] we will start on the end. Harvey has a special hat on. I would like to see it because a lot of people think of tom cruise when they see the hat. The unfortunate part is tom cruise was not the first. Colonel harvey is a part of a top gun squadron. That went to nellis field, took their airplanes, took their Maintenance Crew and became top gun. On record forgun the u. S. Air force. Colonel harvey, if you want to tell us a little bit about yourself and what you want the people to know about your service and about your time flying combat airplanes and then becoming a top gun. Noble way. [laughter] oh boy. [laughter] i never made any model aircraft or anything like that. I never did anything as far as aircraft goes. I lived in a small town in so youstern pennsylvania can imagine how big it is. I was in my front yard one day and i saw this flight of people hes flyover in formation. I said i would like to do that and that was it. I got into the military and was drafted. I tried to enlist in the army 43 andps in january of they said they were not taking enlistments at that time. Reason they said that is they didnt want me in the army air corps. So i was drafted in march of 43. I went to fort maine, maryland and took my written exam, my went to jefferson, issouri for basic training finished my basic training at jefferson barracks, missouri. And, based on my score that i had on my written test, they put me in the army air corps. Army air corps engineers. And they sent me to fort belvoir, virginia. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2019] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] my mission was to go into the jungle, check out an area and build an airfield. I was part of the engineer battalion. We used to go out and practice every day. I said no, this is not for me. So i applied for cadet raining. There were 10 of us. Nine whites and myself. Two of us passed. From there, went to biloxi, mississippi, for 30 days of basic training, more basic raining. And finish there and went to tuskegee and the rest is history. Jerry that is pretty good stuff. A lot of time to do things and you start off not realizing how far you are going to go. Colonel alexander, i see colonel alexanders another one of those that did some things that a lot of people wouldnt expect. I know when he started, he didnt figure he would write his ook. I see the book, the title, red tail captured, red tail free. To go to the red tail free part, i want to ask you first, where did you come from . What squadron did you fly in . Can you tell us the day you remembered that you said, im a p. O. W. But im going to be k . Colonel alexander ok. All right. I want to talk about something that takes me two hours. Yeah. Lets start out real quick. Alexander jefferson. Orn in detroit michigan. Went to Clark College in atlanta, georgia. The war was going on. I graduated in 1942. Stayed with the japanese the japanese bombed pearl harbor on what date . Anybody. K. The United States congress made, lets see, i go do this short congress developed the 99th squadron. They allowed blacks to fly. They said we started in 1941. I graduated in 1942. Now, the war is going on. The draft is about to get me. So, rather than get drafted, i went down and volunteered for this new air force. That was just developed. I graduated in january 1942. Nd i flew combat with the 99th the 332nd Fighter Group made up of blacks. All selfcontained. And i flew combat with the 301st Fighter Squadron commanded by general, at that time colonel davis. We will get back to that. I flew combat in 19 missions, escorting the b17s from italy up into germany. E had one mission. Striking. Go in, try to knock out radar stations on the coast of Southern France. I got hit. The damn thing came up through the floor. I had to bail out. I bailed out in Southern France occupied by the germans at that time. I spent nine months as a p. O. W. Halftime in poland and then in germany. Liberated in 1945. Liberated. And came back to the United States. Spent the rest of the time in the air force. So, you can tell, i put all my thoughts on paper. So, its all written down. I tried to make it quick. Can shove stuff in there, but we do not have time. Nine months, 9. 5 months in ermany as a p. O. W. Pretty significant. There were 32 of us black. And the other who were p. O. W. s in germany by the end of the war. 32, yeah. And we go from there. Jerry thats incredible. Incredible. Colonel petersburg. Listen to the other two Tuskegee Airmen a question came to my mind. First of all, were pointed to do the same thing and i will go back to colonel harvey, but first thing is, where are you from . Where did you go through training . Where was your training . And tell us a little bit about your time as a p. O. W. The time as a p. O. W. Was not very long i was born in st. Paul, minnesota, on the 25th of november 1924. We moved to wisconsin, and i did my formative years growing up in the milwaukee area. I had a vocation to become a priest. I went to seminary after grade school. And then i was by third year of a 12 year trek to priesthood, to ordination and i was coming down to the gym to play pool on a sunday morning and i heard 7th of december, 1941. Japanese bombed pearl harbor. I knew at that time, i was going to join the service and fight for the country. So, i left the seminary. And in, on my 18th birthday, 1942, i was accepted into the Aviation Cadet program. I did my training to the Southeast Air command, alabama, georgia, florida, that area. And i graduated as a Second Lieutenant Fighter Pilot. 19 years old. And went through combat training. After that for the p40s. Accumulated about 150 so hours in that p40. Was assigned to europe as the 55th Fighter Squadron. They had just converted to p51s. I only had p40 time. And checked out the p51 and got 20 hours and started flying combat. Flew my First Combat Mission on the 12 december 1944. Then flew 49 subsequent missions. The last, very exciting, most of them. Nd the last one was the most interesting. You want me to continue . Jerry go ahead and give us. Ok. And then, on the 49th mission, we were putting, the 8th air force was putting up 1500 bombers and targets in the berlin, brandenburg, area. My squadron was escorting some 450 b17s with 90 fighter escort. We answer the we entered the area. Uneventful until the bombers dropped the bombs and we got hit y a swarm of turbojet. I was flying high cover, and i observed one blow up a b17. I rolled over and started down full throttle. And came in to a 6 00 position just about the time he blew up the second b17. He rolled over and started down to the deck. I chased him and he disappeared into some clouds. I have gotten hit. In the left engine and i saw ome smoke and a little fire. I said, the heck with it. I saw an airfield full of aircraft and i started strafing it. You Fighter Pilots know youre not supposed to at 19 years old, what the heck . So, anyway. Too many passes and i destroyed at least five onthe ground. And as i was coming on my last pass, i felt a thud. Fter a condor. A four engine aircraft. Part of hitlers fleet. Anyway i blew thing up because i was coming off. I heard another gun. Got a oil over my windscreen. Made it to 10,000 feet. Losing altitude. I finally had to bail out at 300 eet. And was captured immediately, interrogated. And went to p. O. W. Camp at buchenwald after a five or six day march through germany. Just pandemonium. Thousands of refugees going east and west. German army. They tried to keep some kind of ense to the pandemonium. Anyway i got to buchenwald which was a stalin which was mostly ussian prisoners of war. Hats about spent about ten ays there. Russians were right outside of erlin. The prison camp. The russians are fighting a berlin. And the security at the camp was very lax. So, i escaped. Jerry you walked away . Walked away and started down the road. And after about five or six miles, i heard a rumbling. Here comes a tank unit. And i came out and, fortunately, the lieutenant of the russian tank unit, the lieutenant could speak english, so i communicated with him. He gave me a rifle and said hop on. Fought with the russian tank unit from berlin up to wittenberg. Here i was repatrioted by the army patrol that came across the elba to meet the russians. Eventually, across, got back to paris and got stamped and deloused and all that sort of stuff. And started my way home on the last convoy through europe. Ot home, and im anxiously aiting to marry my fiancee josephine who i named my aircraft after is josephine. And in the process of doing the paperwork, i had to get my moms permission to get married because i had not turned 21 yet. Jerry very nice. Thats it. Jerry very nice. You were in the northern part of germany. Was in the southern part. I was in skalog 3. Where 10,000, close to 10,000 american p. O. W. s. It was a heck a lot of us a heck of a lot of us. Didnt have any chance to escape ecause we were heavily guarded. And it was heck. Erry wow. Ok. Jerry colonel harvey . The leading ace was in the states in 2013 looking for the pilot that shot him down. Did you make contact, by chance . What did he say . Jerry say your question again. Germanys leading ace was in the states in 2013 looking for the pilot that shot him down. Did you make contact, by chance . Oh, yes. See, id never claimed well, you know, by the time i got liberated and everything, the war was over. The heck with it. You didnt worry about that. Got home, got married. So, 60 years went by and finally, through various, many uropean researchers, swedish and the region and german researchers, they came to the conclusion that i was the one that shot down walter, a top erman ace. He had 206 confirmed aerial victories. He had 198 victories on the orth sea area with russia. Most of his victories there were gainst the russians. He transitioned into the turbojet. And on his first mission, he. Shot down three aircraft the first time he was in the 216. He shot down three aircraft. And then he was the one that, in fact, he had, on the 5th of may of 2005, we met in alifornia. And became close friends. He was a real gentleman. We spent the rest of his life and i together doing various shows. He tells me that when he went to the clouds into the clouds, he made a left turn, hoping to avoid me if i tried to follow him. He said, he started to turn, has left engine disintegrated. He had to bail out. He bailed out at 1000 meters. So, he sprained both of his legs and ankles when he bailed out. So, he was basically out of the war at the time. Hed always say my friend joey. Joey save my life because if he wouldve got up again he felt certainly he wouldve been killed. Thats the way it was during the nd of the war. I was thinking how fortunate you were to be able to move out. I had to bail out. I thought about it while you were talking. Out of all my nine, about a year, of training in the air tuskegee, never had one minute n how to bail out. Did you bail out . 51. Our job was to bail out of the right side. Are you kidding . I bailed out of the left ide. Our job was to knock out radar tations. On the coast, right on the shores of Southern France. Later on, i found out that these radars, controlled the guns around Southern France out the harbor of Southern France. Came in at 15,000. We dove in. We indicated about 260 miles an hour. And went right across the top of hese radars. Uge towers with a lot of buildings underneath where the machinery is going on. At about 200 feet, so, boom. And as i went along, fire came up out of the floor. Its square. I said to myself, how do i get out . Finally decided real quickly, full power, full up. And i think i may have gotten to about 1000 feet. At the same time, on the left side you have a little wheel. It controls the flaps. Back and forth. Pulled the red lever. And a canopy popped off. As im going up. I got about 1000 feet. Dont know. And turned the stick loose. And quite naturally the nose drops abruptly. When it dropped abruptly, bang. I hit the buckle. And i remember, the tail going by. Nice and slow and easy. What they told you is as you bail out you count 1, 2, 3, then you pull the dring and a parachute will deploy. I came out. And saw the tail go by. And i looked down. I saw trees. I said, oh. You pull the dring. And bang. The parachute opened. And i swung down. And hit a tree. I said, well, then all of a sudden i heard a voice. German. Said, oh, hell. My nine months in germany started right there. In Southern France. About a week. And with two or three german soldiers escorting me out of germany. On that same mission, we lost one guy, joe gordon was killed. Nathan was a prisoner. Daniels was a prisoner. I was a prisoner. And one other guy. We lost five men on that one mission. What we later found out, the control, the guns firing off the coast. And maybe it was the weather. One guy is a p. O. W. And three or four guys p. O. W. s. So, i spent the rest of the time hungry, but as a p. O. W. , we existed. Ill leave it. Later on i will go into the ook. Jerry very good. Good. Jerry colonel harvey . I was going back to you and you asked the question. But i want to give you a chance. First of all, we want to know where you are from first. I didnt do that at the original outset. Two, im curious, flying so long ith the military, what airplanes were you actually qualified to fly, out of all of those, throughout those years, what airplanes . So, where you from, what airplanes . Like i said before, im from a small town in northeastern pennsylvania. And we were the only black family out there. So, there wasnt any prejudice whatsoever. I got along fine with everybody. I was the only black at my high chool. The only sports we had were tumbling and basketball. I was the anchorman on the tumbling team, captain of the basketball team. And my senior year i was class president and valedictorian. I was treated just like any ther person. Like i said, when i noticed the world was subjected to segregation is when i took the train from 44th pennsylvania to fort meade maryland and we stopped in washington, d. C. And we had a two hour lay over on the way to fort meade. So, i got off the train. Went and had breakfast or came back. When to get back in the car i was in. They said, no. You ride in the car where negroes ride. O, welcome to the south. Your introduction, another words to segregation and discriminate. I can feel it. Same thing. That was my introduction to segregation. But i didnt let it bother e. I didnt have the problem. They had the problem. So i did what i had to do to accomplish what i had to accomplish. Like i said before, i went to Engineering School at fort belvoir. Idnt care for that. Took Cadet Training and excepted and off to tuskegee and the rest is history. Jerry give us a list of airplanes you are qualified in. Aircraft on qualified in. Well, in primary, the pt17. The fairchild aircraft, made by fairchild. Low wing plane. In basically flew the standard bt13. In advance, the at6. We finished advanced training we got the p40 at tuskegee. I got my ten hours. And from there to walterboro, south carolina, for combat raining. There we were flying thep40 and later switched to the p47. And one i finish combat training, that was in april of 1945 when i finished combat training. Had my bags packed. Trained to go to norfolk to get on a ship and join the 332nd. We got a message saying to hold us. The war in italy was over and they expected more in the european theater, which they did in may. Hitler give up the following month of may. I wouldve been on the high seas. I didnt make it overseas to join the group. During that time, the germans had very good intelligence. So, hitler knew i was coming. Thats why he gave up. [laughter] and then, like i said, we got p47s. Then since i didnt go over, i joined the 99th in kentucky and they had p47s. I flew p47s up until a time of integration, and that was in june of 1949. They broke the 332nd up and scattered us all over the world. Eddie drummond and i, we were assigned to a Fighter Group in japan. Before we departed our 201 file had been forwarded to the Worth Winning<\/a> must be deserved. As the victories are increased in scale so must be our exertion. Victory, Winston Churchill<\/a> says, we shall not win through the evils in our enemy. We shall win through the merit in ourselves. Deserved victory. Let that be the touchstone of every thought, word, and deed. I think about that pretty much every day. To my ownng expectations let alone the expectations of younger others. Today we will hear from people who earned victory. Yesterday and the day before we heard from a lot of people on the ground. We will hear this morning from some incredible legends that thought and hair. It is truly my pleasure to introduce mr. Gary burton. Aj is a past president of the Tuskegee Airmen<\/a> Association East<\/a> coast chapter, former air force veteran. With that we will begin todays program. [applause] thank you, everyone. It is my honor to be in the room again with original tuskegee government and a second pow in the room. Another Fighter Pilot<\/a> from world war ii. You will have a special treat of gentlemen that a lot of people dont know are still around. I want torther ado make sure you have enough time to see them all. Lieutenant colonel james harvey the third. [applause] colonel harvey is a Fighter Pilot<\/a> of three wars. Next we will have lt. Col. Alexander jefferson. [applause] colonel jefferson is a combat , t, p. O. W. Joseph. [applause] the colonel has a special designation with his name as well. Colonel mason. Mace. Onel he did 49 missions before becoming a pow. Somehow he escaped and evaded lew with theh f russian army, incredible stuff. Lets give them all around applause. [applause] we will start on the end. Harvey has a special hat on. I would like to see it because a lot of people think of tom cruise when they see the hat. The unfortunate part is tom cruise was not the first. Colonel harvey is a part of a top gun squadron. That went to nellis field, took their airplanes, took their Maintenance Crew<\/a> and became top gun. On record forgun the u. S. Air force. Colonel harvey, if you want to tell us a little bit about yourself and what you want the people to know about your service and about your time flying combat airplanes and then becoming a top gun. Noble way. [laughter] oh boy. [laughter] i never made any model aircraft or anything like that. I never did anything as far as aircraft goes. I lived in a small town in so youstern pennsylvania can imagine how big it is. I was in my front yard one day and i saw this flight of people hes flyover in formation. I said i would like to do that and that was it. I got into the military and was drafted. I tried to enlist in the army 43 andps in january of they said they were not taking enlistments at that time. Reason they said that is they didnt want me in the army air corps. So i was drafted in march of 43. I went to fort maine, maryland and took my written exam, my went to jefferson, issouri for basic training finished my basic training at jefferson barracks, missouri. And, based on my score that i had on my written test, they put me in the army air corps. Army air corps engineers. And they sent me to fort belvoir, virginia. [captions Copyright National<\/a> cable satellite corp. 2019] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] my mission was to go into the jungle, check out an area and build an airfield. I was part of the engineer battalion. We used to go out and practice every day. I said no, this is not for me. So i applied for cadet raining. There were 10 of us. Nine whites and myself. Two of us passed. From there, went to biloxi, mississippi, for 30 days of basic training, more basic raining. And finish there and went to tuskegee and the rest is history. Jerry that is pretty good stuff. A lot of time to do things and you start off not realizing how far you are going to go. Colonel alexander, i see colonel alexanders another one of those that did some things that a lot of people wouldnt expect. I know when he started, he didnt figure he would write his ook. I see the book, the title, red tail captured, red tail free. To go to the red tail free part, i want to ask you first, where did you come from . What squadron did you fly in . Can you tell us the day you remembered that you said, im a p. O. W. But im going to be k . Colonel alexander ok. All right. I want to talk about something that takes me two hours. Yeah. Lets start out real quick. Alexander jefferson. Orn in detroit michigan. Went to Clark College<\/a> in atlanta, georgia. The war was going on. I graduated in 1942. Stayed with the japanese the japanese bombed pearl harbor on what date . Anybody. K. The United States<\/a> congress made, lets see, i go do this short congress developed the 99th squadron. They allowed blacks to fly. They said we started in 1941. I graduated in 1942. Now, the war is going on. The draft is about to get me. So, rather than get drafted, i went down and volunteered for this new air force. That was just developed. I graduated in january 1942. Nd i flew combat with the 99th the 332nd Fighter Group<\/a> made up of blacks. All selfcontained. And i flew combat with the 301st Fighter Squadron<\/a> commanded by general, at that time colonel davis. We will get back to that. I flew combat in 19 missions, escorting the b17s from italy up into germany. E had one mission. Striking. Go in, try to knock out radar stations on the coast of Southern France<\/a>. I got hit. The damn thing came up through the floor. I had to bail out. I bailed out in Southern France<\/a> occupied by the germans at that time. I spent nine months as a p. O. W. Halftime in poland and then in germany. Liberated in 1945. Liberated. And came back to the United States<\/a>. Spent the rest of the time in the air force. So, you can tell, i put all my thoughts on paper. So, its all written down. I tried to make it quick. Can shove stuff in there, but we do not have time. Nine months, 9. 5 months in ermany as a p. O. W. Pretty significant. There were 32 of us black. And the other who were p. O. W. s in germany by the end of the war. 32, yeah. And we go from there. Jerry thats incredible. Incredible. Colonel petersburg. Listen to the other two Tuskegee Airmen<\/a> a question came to my mind. First of all, were pointed to do the same thing and i will go back to colonel harvey, but first thing is, where are you from . Where did you go through training . Where was your training . And tell us a little bit about your time as a p. O. W. The time as a p. O. W. Was not very long i was born in st. Paul, minnesota, on the 25th of november 1924. We moved to wisconsin, and i did my formative years growing up in the milwaukee area. I had a vocation to become a priest. I went to seminary after grade school. And then i was by third year of a 12 year trek to priesthood, to ordination and i was coming down to the gym to play pool on a sunday morning and i heard 7th of december, 1941. Japanese bombed pearl harbor. I knew at that time, i was going to join the service and fight for the country. So, i left the seminary. And in, on my 18th birthday, 1942, i was accepted into the Aviation Cadet<\/a> program. I did my training to the Southeast Air<\/a> command, alabama, georgia, florida, that area. And i graduated as a Second Lieutenant<\/a> Fighter Pilot<\/a>. 19 years old. And went through combat training. After that for the p40s. Accumulated about 150 so hours in that p40. Was assigned to europe as the 55th Fighter Squadron<\/a>. They had just converted to p51s. I only had p40 time. And checked out the p51 and got 20 hours and started flying combat. Flew my First Combat Mission<\/a> on the 12 december 1944. Then flew 49 subsequent missions. The last, very exciting, most of them. Nd the last one was the most interesting. You want me to continue . Jerry go ahead and give us. Ok. And then, on the 49th mission, we were putting, the 8th air force was putting up 1500 bombers and targets in the berlin, brandenburg, area. My squadron was escorting some 450 b17s with 90 fighter escort. We answer the we entered the area. Uneventful until the bombers dropped the bombs and we got hit y a swarm of turbojet. I was flying high cover, and i observed one blow up a b17. I rolled over and started down full throttle. And came in to a 6 00 position just about the time he blew up the second b17. He rolled over and started down to the deck. I chased him and he disappeared into some clouds. I have gotten hit. In the left engine and i saw ome smoke and a little fire. I said, the heck with it. I saw an airfield full of aircraft and i started strafing it. You Fighter Pilot<\/a>s know youre not supposed to at 19 years old, what the heck . So, anyway. Too many passes and i destroyed at least five onthe ground. And as i was coming on my last pass, i felt a thud. Fter a condor. A four engine aircraft. Part of hitlers fleet. Anyway i blew thing up because i was coming off. I heard another gun. Got a oil over my windscreen. Made it to 10,000 feet. Losing altitude. I finally had to bail out at 300 eet. And was captured immediately, interrogated. And went to p. O. W. Camp at buchenwald after a five or six day march through germany. Just pandemonium. Thousands of refugees going east and west. German army. They tried to keep some kind of ense to the pandemonium. Anyway i got to buchenwald which was a stalin which was mostly ussian prisoners of war. Hats about spent about ten ays there. Russians were right outside of erlin. The prison camp. The russians are fighting a berlin. And the security at the camp was very lax. So, i escaped. Jerry you walked away . Walked away and started down the road. And after about five or six miles, i heard a rumbling. Here comes a tank unit. And i came out and, fortunately, the lieutenant of the russian tank unit, the lieutenant could speak english, so i communicated with him. He gave me a rifle and said hop on. Fought with the russian tank unit from berlin up to wittenberg. Here i was repatrioted by the army patrol that came across the elba to meet the russians. Eventually, across, got back to paris and got stamped and deloused and all that sort of stuff. And started my way home on the last convoy through europe. Ot home, and im anxiously aiting to marry my fiancee josephine who i named my aircraft after is josephine. And in the process of doing the paperwork, i had to get my moms permission to get married because i had not turned 21 yet. Jerry very nice. Thats it. Jerry very nice. You were in the northern part of germany. Was in the southern part. I was in skalog 3. Where 10,000, close to 10,000 american p. O. W. s. It was a heck a lot of us a heck of a lot of us. Didnt have any chance to escape ecause we were heavily guarded. And it was heck. Erry wow. Ok. Jerry colonel harvey . The leading ace was in the states in 2013 looking for the pilot that shot him down. Did you make contact, by chance . What did he say . Jerry say your question again. Germanys leading ace was in the states in 2013 looking for the pilot that shot him down. Did you make contact, by chance . Oh, yes. See, id never claimed well, you know, by the time i got liberated and everything, the war was over. The heck with it. You didnt worry about that. Got home, got married. So, 60 years went by and finally, through various, many uropean researchers, swedish and the region and german researchers, they came to the conclusion that i was the one that shot down walter, a top erman ace. He had 206 confirmed aerial victories. He had 198 victories on the orth sea area with russia. Most of his victories there were gainst the russians. He transitioned into the turbojet. And on his first mission, he. Shot down three aircraft the first time he was in the 216. He shot down three aircraft. And then he was the one that, in fact, he had, on the 5th of may of 2005, we met in alifornia. And became close friends. He was a real gentleman. We spent the rest of his life and i together doing various shows. He tells me that when he went to the clouds into the clouds, he made a left turn, hoping to avoid me if i tried to follow him. He said, he started to turn, has left engine disintegrated. He had to bail out. He bailed out at 1000 meters. So, he sprained both of his legs and ankles when he bailed out. So, he was basically out of the war at the time. Hed always say my friend joey. Joey save my life because if he wouldve got up again he felt certainly he wouldve been killed. Thats the way it was during the nd of the war. I was thinking how fortunate you were to be able to move out. I had to bail out. I thought about it while you were talking. Out of all my nine, about a year, of training in the air tuskegee, never had one minute n how to bail out. Did you bail out . 51. Our job was to bail out of the right side. Are you kidding . I bailed out of the left ide. Our job was to knock out radar tations. On the coast, right on the shores of Southern France<\/a>. Later on, i found out that these radars, controlled the guns around Southern France<\/a> out the harbor of Southern France<\/a>. Came in at 15,000. We dove in. We indicated about 260 miles an hour. And went right across the top of hese radars. Uge towers with a lot of buildings underneath where the machinery is going on. At about 200 feet, so, boom. And as i went along, fire came up out of the floor. Its square. I said to myself, how do i get out . Finally decided real quickly, full power, full up. And i think i may have gotten to about 1000 feet. At the same time, on the left side you have a little wheel. It controls the flaps. Back and forth. Pulled the red lever. And a canopy popped off. As im going up. I got about 1000 feet. Dont know. And turned the stick loose. And quite naturally the nose drops abruptly. When it dropped abruptly, bang. I hit the buckle. And i remember, the tail going by. Nice and slow and easy. What they told you is as you bail out you count 1, 2, 3, then you pull the dring and a parachute will deploy. I came out. And saw the tail go by. And i looked down. I saw trees. I said, oh. You pull the dring. And bang. The parachute opened. And i swung down. And hit a tree. I said, well, then all of a sudden i heard a voice. German. Said, oh, hell. My nine months in germany started right there. In Southern France<\/a>. About a week. And with two or three german soldiers escorting me out of germany. On that same mission, we lost one guy, joe gordon was killed. Nathan was a prisoner. Daniels was a prisoner. I was a prisoner. And one other guy. We lost five men on that one mission. What we later found out, the control, the guns firing off the coast. And maybe it was the weather. One guy is a p. O. W. And three or four guys p. O. W. s. So, i spent the rest of the time hungry, but as a p. O. W. , we existed. Ill leave it. Later on i will go into the ook. Jerry very good. Good. Jerry colonel harvey . I was going back to you and you asked the question. But i want to give you a chance. First of all, we want to know where you are from first. I didnt do that at the original outset. Two, im curious, flying so long ith the military, what airplanes were you actually qualified to fly, out of all of those, throughout those years, what airplanes . So, where you from, what airplanes . Like i said before, im from a small town in northeastern pennsylvania. And we were the only black family out there. So, there wasnt any prejudice whatsoever. I got along fine with everybody. I was the only black at my high chool. The only sports we had were tumbling and basketball. I was the anchorman on the tumbling team, captain of the basketball team. And my senior year i was class president and valedictorian. I was treated just like any ther person. Like i said, when i noticed the world was subjected to segregation is when i took the train from 44th pennsylvania to fort meade maryland and we stopped in washington, d. C. And we had a two hour lay over on the way to fort meade. So, i got off the train. Went and had breakfast or came back. When to get back in the car i was in. They said, no. You ride in the car where negroes ride. O, welcome to the south. Your introduction, another words to segregation and discriminate. I can feel it. Same thing. That was my introduction to segregation. But i didnt let it bother e. I didnt have the problem. They had the problem. So i did what i had to do to accomplish what i had to accomplish. Like i said before, i went to Engineering School<\/a> at fort belvoir. Idnt care for that. Took Cadet Training<\/a> and excepted and off to tuskegee and the rest is history. Jerry give us a list of airplanes you are qualified in. Aircraft on qualified in. Well, in primary, the pt17. The fairchild aircraft, made by fairchild. Low wing plane. In basically flew the standard bt13. In advance, the at6. We finished advanced training we got the p40 at tuskegee. I got my ten hours. And from there to walterboro, south carolina, for combat raining. There we were flying thep40 and later switched to the p47. And one i finish combat training, that was in april of 1945 when i finished combat training. Had my bags packed. Trained to go to norfolk to get on a ship and join the 332nd. We got a message saying to hold us. The war in italy was over and they expected more in the european theater, which they did in may. Hitler give up the following month of may. I wouldve been on the high seas. I didnt make it overseas to join the group. During that time, the germans had very good intelligence. So, hitler knew i was coming. Thats why he gave up. [laughter] and then, like i said, we got p47s. Then since i didnt go over, i joined the 99th in kentucky and they had p47s. I flew p47s up until a time of integration, and that was in june of 1949. They broke the 332nd up and scattered us all over the world. Eddie drummond and i, we were assigned to a Fighter Group<\/a> in japan. Before we departed our 201 file had been forwarded to the Wing Commander<\/a>. In there was our picture. So, he the Wing Commander<\/a> called all the pilots in and said, we have these two negro pilots coming in. They will be assigned to one of the squadrons. The pilots told us that themselves. They said, no way are we going to fly with them. No way. Anyway, Eddie Drummond<\/a> and i reported to the Wing Commander<\/a>. In his office. He said, what you want us to call you . I said, well, im a first lieutenant. Eddies a Second Lieutenant<\/a>. How about lieutenant harvey and drummond . He said, ok. Then he made a mistake. He said, we have three Fighter Squadron<\/a>s on the base. Two p51 squadrons and which squadron do you want to go to . I said, f80. So, they put us both in the f80 squadron. They did not have any t33s. But they had an ap6. That is what we flew in advance. In the backseat there is a hood you can pull up and you cant see out. What they had us do, they had me get in the back seat. Up front, which is one of them, they got instructions for taxi and take off. Hey lined the aircraft up on the runway and he said you have it. I apply the throttle, down the runway. Pull up the gear. All that good stuff. Fly around, doing what he wants me to do. Then contact Ground Control<\/a> pproach. Vector in for a landing, touched on the runway. And the pilot up front took over. Now, what does that have to do with flying the f80 . Nothing. I think they wanted to see if we could fly. Period. We proved we could. So, i checked out in the f80. I was combat ready in the f80. And then, after leaving japan, in between leaving japan and going to victorville, california, i flew missions in korea. Got 126 in the f80. Went to victorville, california and they had the f86. I checked out the f86. And flew the a, e, f, and d models. I was combat ready in that ircraft. So, i was combat ready in the f 80, the f 86 and i checked out in the f 89 and i got two missions in that. And then the 94. I got one mission in that. And then, i ended up as perations officer of a f 101 squadron. The f 102 was the big delta ing. Very fast. Supersonic. People ask me which is my favorite aircraft and i say the f 102 because Fighter Pilot<\/a>s like speed. Those were the aircraft i flew in. Those were the military aircraft fighters i flew and was combat ready in. I had a good life. I enjoyed every minute of it. That is good. Great to see the list of egendary airplanes a lot of people have to go back now and look at the tape and the list and pull up those pictures of the airplanes. You will see that not all of them performed the same way. You had to have certain skills on certain airplanes, especially the delta dart. You like to go fast but then, how are you going to slow down . [laughter] the one question i want to ask and then we are going to split this. I want one or two questions from the audience. Be prepared and ready and speak loud. While we are getting ready for the young people to ask their question, i want to give you the opportunity, a couple of minutes each to address these people and let them know what do you hink they are . As where you left it . So, do you think that your leaving this legacy of your viation career in good hands with the young people in the udience . I am sure there are a lot of prospective pilots in the audience. There are a lot of uniforms so i am sure they have some plans for the military. If we could get one or two from the audience that have a question then we welcome come back to you. We will start with the colonel. Well, i think we have set a standard for a different era. You guys are in a completely new universe then we lived in and i realize that it is very difficult to associate i went to the 100th anniversary of my unit last year and they are flying f 202i went into the simulator. We were flied by the seat of your pants generation and you are entirely different. The one thing that i think whatever your endeavor, you do your best. You cannot do more than your best. You strive to do your best and if you do, the rest of it, the promotions and the jobs and that sort of stuff will come. But, that would be my best advice. Get an objective and do your best to achieve it. Become selfactualized. Colonel alexander . Colonel alexander you guys and gals we flew f 86s. And now there are f22s and f 35s a completely new world. He transition from where you were i was a reserve officer. I accompanied four people hrough air force academy as an advisor. And training today is so dvanced. But it is so productive. Very productive. Do the best you can. Be a nerd. Seriously. Sit on the front seat in class. Have you ever seen a guy walked in and the first thing they do is go to the back of the room. Be a nerd and sit in the front eat. The teacher is trying to give you his knowledge. Transfer his knowledge to you. And if you sit too far back, you cant hear. Life is so exciting. Today. From what it was 70 years ago. Take advantage of it. Be a nerd. That is my advice. Outstanding. I need a patch and put that on there. Colonel harvey . Colonel harvey i will let you in on a secret. It is why the Tuskegee Airmen<\/a> were so good. Each one of us wanted to be the best. If you get all of those bests together you had quite an organization. Who was the best of all of us pilots . It depends on who is telling the story. And right now, i am. That is perfect. You are standing i the microphone. I am midshipman hoffman from miami university. Other than trying to be as excellent as possible and do the best job you possibly can, what are some specific qualities or traits that are essential to have as a combat pilot . Specific qualities or traits you will need to be a combat Fighter Pilot<\/a> . Who wants to take it first . Be a badass. Exactly. You are darned right. Your answer may be a short one but we do have a consensus. Seriously. Good morning, gentlemen. Vanderbilt university. I wonder if you could speak on how you were able to overcome the segregation in the military and the many challenges placed in front of you being africanamericans and a segregated military in the 1940s. You do the best you can. Period. Under the circumstances. Segregation was an obstacle. Literally, you hit a ceiling trying to join the system, the economic, political system. You felt as though when you walked into a baseball game that you had two strikes against you. Many times there were too many things that happened that made you feel as though you were not worthy. And the application you filled in, you felt as though they were utting obstacles in your way. But, you do the best you can under the circumstance. As general davis, our boss, who went through west point in four years and during those four years, nobody spoke to him officially. Trying to get him to quit. But he made it. He was our leader. We had a slogan failure is not an option. Gentlemen, failure is not an option. E had that theme whenever we took an exam, flying combat, flying period. Ailure is not an option. Still today failure is not an ption. Your name and school lease. Good morning, gentlemen. My question is for you, colonel jarvis. I wonder if you could share as someone that served in world war i, korea, and vietnam i wonder if you could share your experience about coming home, specifically after vietnam. Your experience coming ome . Well, i flew combat in korea, 76 missions. Korea was the forgotten war. Coming home there was nothing proor con. It was a job. I got my missions and i came ome. I did not experience any roblems there. In vietnam, there was a tremendous it is a historical fact that all of the troops were treated very badly. Was of a senior rank and it did not affect me. It was around and i was a career military. I really cannot relate to that particular question. But in korea, i had some very interesting experiences there. I would like to go into one Little Mission<\/a> that i had. There were troops along the ridge. We had a good napalm run. We did a rocket run. We did not have the electronically controlled guidance so you had to keep your aircraft pretty level as far as firing the rockets. I had some small arms go through the canopy. There was an explosion inside he canopy. I reached up and my cans were full of blood. I did not know what was happening as far as how badly i was wounded. I made it back to base. My wing man had a radio failure so i brought him in and we went back to base. He broke off first. All of the meat wagons and stuff followed him. So i came him and landed nonchalantly. I taxied back to my landing spot where my parking spot. Y crew chief was up on the wing. I got up and he was startled. He fell off the wing and almost broke his leg. The bullet smashed the canopy and the plexiglass went into my face. I had three or four days where they took class out of my ace. And then i was fine again. That was a little korea incident. Colonel harvey, you have a separate experience as far as the integration or nonintegration of the military during your initial world war ii time. Mostly in the states. Are there any stories you can tell as far as being there . Where you were part of the integration activities or desegregation activities that went on in ohio or indiana or kentucky. I think i covered them before. The start of integration, in 1949, june 1949 when i went to japan. That was the start of integration really. That is when they broke up the Fighter Group<\/a> and scattered us all around. During my whole military career, i had no problems whatsoever. One thing i was good. I was the best in the quadron. To put it bluntly. And the Tuskegee Airmen<\/a>, they do not come any better. You were the best. That is right. Integration with something we had to meet and conquer. We had the attitude in civilian life. An attitude of i am the best in class or wherever you are. Fter the war, integration took over. And, during my life in the military, and my life in the civilian life still, i am the best. Everyone says how did you feel . What do you mean, how did i feel . Im fighting the system. Trying to join this country as a human being. And it was tough at certain times. Even in the military. Segregation. But still, in my experience, i am the best. Everyone says did you cry . Heck, no i cannot cuss like i used to to express myself. [laughter] i had a good time doing it too. In the few minutes that we have left, i would like to give ou the opportunity to give us, once you left the military, what was your profession . What did you do as far as where you doctors or lawyers . I took care of the snotty nosed brats for 35 years. I was a schoolteacher. Best thing in the world. I had a ball. I taught elementary science. In other words, why did that irplane stay in the air . What do you mean, stall . Hat happens . How did the clouds form . To explain these things to a fifth grader and all of a sudden you look at him and say oh yeah bingo. Best feeling in the world. What happens when an airplane why does an airplane stall . Real quickly i can do this in wo or three minutes. The shape of the wing is round. Kind of like a hump as it goes through the air. The air going off the top of the wing has to go up and it comes down. The air on the bottom of the wing, the wing goes right straight through and is not affected. By going up and down a little bit, it produces a pull, a ift. You have to go a certain speed through the air to make that air go up and come down. Lift. Takeoff speed is about 9095. If it goes below that, 70, you do not get the lift. And that is why the airplane stalls. You would be surprised do a little experiment in the classroom. We had fun producing lift and understanding why an airplane has to go 90 or 100 Miles Per Hour<\/a> to produce the air going cross the top. Lift. Part of my life was teaching science. And saying and proving to leave them with this attitude of i am the best in the world today. Because life is great. Life is great. You better enjoy it because no one else can make you feel the way i feel. Good. Colonel harvey . What was your profession, what was your chosen profession once you left the military . I retired in may of 1965. And i had four daughters i had to raise and my wife, of course. So i needed a job. United was in town interviewing so i applied to united. And they said you meet all of our qualifications except one. We have a cut off of 35. I said, ok. I retired in madison, wisconsin. And at that time, that was the home office for oscar meyer. I interviewed with oscar meyer. This was in may, 1965 when i interviewed. And i interviewed for about a week with everyone besides oscar himself. And they said, you are hired. When do you want to go to work . I said i retire the 31st of may and i would like a week off and they said ok, report june 7. I reported the seventh of june to oscar meyer and at that facility, they had slaughter through the completion of all their products. And so my training was slaughter. It was a threemonth program. One month into the program, they needed a salesman in new jersey and so they sent me there. I was a salesman for three years n northeastern new jersey. And then i was transferred to detroit, michigan as a district manager. And then i was transferred to philadelphia to the plant as an assistant sales manager. And then, during this time, at the Little Theater<\/a> plant, oscar meyer held marketing conferences. And in my position at the plant, i was eligible to attend the marketing conference. In 1971, we had a marketing conference at disney world. And disney world had not completely opened yet. Polynesian village was open and that is where we had our conference. The last day of the Conference Im<\/a> sitting in the dining hall by myself in a booth. The president of oscar meyer comes in and says may i join you . And i said, yes. E started talking. And he said. We started talking bout promotions. He said we sent a guy to seattle who was previously in the Western Region<\/a> and he knew our operation very well. That is why we sent him up there. The opening in salt lake city, we did not send you there because of the mormons and the blacks it just does not work. And he said, where would you like to go . And i said, i would like to go to denver but they sent a manager there. In april, 1972, i got a call from headquarters from addison, wisconsin. They said go to los angeles for an interview for a job in denver. And so i went to los angeles. Passed the interview. And was assigned to denver. The manager in denver was transferred to st. Louis, missouri, a larger Distribution Center<\/a> there. Anyway, my crew in denver was 10 salesmen, two district managers, two secretaries and three other people. The company would send products in and we would fill the orders for stores and supermarkets out of the cooler. I was in that job for seven years and then i retired from oscar meyer. A total of 14 years. Etired in may, 1970. I went from flying airplanes to selling wieners. [laughter] it was a good job though. He was the best at it. Right [laughter] [applause] ok, colonel if you could gives my profession was the military. I spent 36 years in active uty. And now, i am 40 years retired. Wow. I was able to beat my active duty. There is our range. When i got out, i got my masters but i did not want to interfere too much with my retirement. There you go. Thats music to my ears, by the way. Colonel harvey . During my whole life as a youngster all the way until i got married, i was a perfectionist. There is nothing a perfectionist cannot do. Washing out never entered my mind. Perfectionists can do anything. And then i got married. [laughter] i had to put that on hold. And when my wife passed away i did not have a worry going through flying school. Went back to my old ways. I can do anything up to a point. That is very nice. This bothers me. Again, we appreciate everyone coming in and taking their time and learning. I encourage you to take the programs back with the names of the gentlemen here. Take those names back. Google them. Look them up. And learn a lot more than we had time to learn today. But, we want to show our appreciation for them coming in and participating in the program. [cheers and applause] thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Colonel harvey, before you leave, i wanted to let you know that you are not the only guy that got out of the air force and work for oscar meyer. As did i. [laughter] i frequently tell kids that i am probably the only guy that you will ever meet that is actually driven the wiener mobile. I also worked out of the philadelphia plant. I worked for oscar meyer in the 1960s here in washington. I remember the meeting in florida, disney world. It had not been finished yet when i was down there. A small world. You just never know. Thank you all very much, ladies and gentlemen. History on two feet. [cheers and applause] [captions Copyright National<\/a> cable satellite corp. 2019] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] Hillary Rodham<\/a> clinton and william weld served as lawyers on the step of the House Judiciary Committee<\/a> during the impeachment inquiry of president Richard Nixon<\/a> in 1973 and 1974. American history tv will feature their interviews about their experience next sunday, december first, at 6 00 p. M. Eastern. Conducted by former nixon residential library director, they are for the oral history collection, a behindthescenes perspective on how the House Judiciary Committee<\/a>s work during the nixon impeachment inquiry. That is next sunday at six clock p. M. Eastern, here on American History<\/a> tv, only on cspan 3. American history tv products are now available on the new cspan online store. To seespanstore. Org what is new for American History<\/a> tv and check out all of the cspan products. The medium market place as shifted dramatically in the last dozen years or so. The fcc has failed to keep place pace. We have rules that basically assume the entire media market place three broadcast televisions at night at a daily newspaper that clunks on your front doorstep in the morning. It is a vastly different market. The fcc commissioner monday night on the communicators on cspan 2. Next on lectures in history, Colorado College<\/a> professor santiago guerra teaches a class on marijuana regulation in u. S. History. He compares views and laws on marijuana to other controlled substances, such as alcohol, opiates, and narcotics. He also outlined key drug legislation from the early","publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"archive.org","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","width":"800","height":"600","url":"\/\/ia903103.us.archive.org\/26\/items\/CSPAN3_20191124_155200_World_War_II_Fighter_Pilots\/CSPAN3_20191124_155200_World_War_II_Fighter_Pilots.thumbs\/CSPAN3_20191124_155200_World_War_II_Fighter_Pilots_000001.jpg"}},"autauthor":{"@type":"Organization"},"author":{"sameAs":"archive.org","name":"archive.org"}}],"coverageEndTime":"20240716T12:35:10+00:00"}

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