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Now on American History tv, jack baker, a many of the Cherokee Nation, discusses his familys involuntary move to oklahoma as part of the trail of tears in the early 19th century. From the Virginia Museum of history and culture and the university of Oklahoma Center for the study of American Indian law and policy, this is about 40 minutes. Now it gives me great pleasure to introduce jack baker. He is a former member of the Tribal Council of the Cherokee Nation where he served for 11 years representing those cherokee citizens residing outside of the Cherokee Nation. He is the National President of the trail of Tears Association. He is also the current president of the Oklahoma Historical society and serves on a number of other boards. He has done extensive research, he has done extensive Cherokee Research for more than 50 years and has authored various articles and edited various books on cherokee history. I can say that he continued his Research Even yesterday at the library of virginia. So it gives me pleasure to invite jack baker. [ applause ] thanks, elizabeth. It is an honor to be au part of this symposium. But i come before you as citizen of the United States and also citizen of the Cherokee Nation. And im an eighth generation oklahoman because of the trail of tears. At the time of our forced removal, the cherokees owned so with the publication began in 1828 of our newspaper, the cherokee phoenix, the cherokees became wellinformed on the issues of removal. By 1819 our people preceded 19 of our original land so by the time of removal the dark area at the bottom is all that was left. So these remaining lands we sought to keep while our white neighbors sought to have them removes. Removed. U. S. Supreme court recognized the sovrnt of the Cherokee Nation and this did not save us from the treaty signed by a handful of cherokees. With major rich as one of the principle leaders. The signers had no authority to speak for the Cherokee Nation yet congress ratified this treaty on may 18, 1836 by only a single vote. And it was signed by president Andrew Jackson on may 23rd. And the cherokees were given two year from that date to remove. Our principle chief and Tribal Council continue in their efforts to no avail. In late 1838 general Winfield Scott and his troops began to round up our people. Removal force had been constructed throughout the Cherokee Nation as places to temporarily contain the cherokees as they were gathered up for removal. Several of these forces were constructed years before during the creek removal. Several hundred creeks had fled to remo avoid removal and th sought to find them. Some question as the cherokee didnt go ahead and move as they were aware of the force being constructed. Reverend steven foreman who was a halfblood cherokee who had been educated in the Mission Schools in the Cherokee Nation and later at princeton wrote the following letter to the American Mission board in boston on may 31, 1838. Candys creek mission. Reverend david green. Says, very dear sir, from the date of my letter perceive im still in the Cherokee Nation peace and still in the candy creek mission. How much longer should we remain here in our own lands to enjoy our rights and privileges, i do not know. From the present aspect of affairs we shall very soon be without house and home. Indeed ever since the 23rd of may weve been looking almost daily for the soldiers to come and turn us out of our houses. They have already warned us to make arrangements and come into the camps before we were forced to do so. But ive stated distinctly to the officers at headquarters what i thought of this socalled treaty. And what course i intend to pursue. In the event that no new treaty was made. And i see no reasons yet why i should change my mind. My determination and the determination of the large majority of the Cherokee Nation is never to recognize this fraudulent instrument as a treaty, nor remove under it until we are forced to do so at the point of the bayonette it may see unwise and hazardous that we should pursue such a force but im fully satisfied its the only one we can pursue with a clear conscious. Reverend daniel butcreek who had been with the mission 20 years wrote in his general on saturday may 26th. In georgia were supposed to be 8,000 cherokees, these in general were taken just as they were found by the soldiers without permission to stop either for friends or property. As the soldiers advanced towards the house two little children fled in fright to the woods. The women pleaded for permission to seek them or wait until they came in, giving positive assurances she would then follow on and join the company but all treaties remain. And it was not until a day or two after she would get permission from one of her friends to go back after her lost children. Deaf and dumb, surprise at the approach of armed men, attempted to make his escape and because he didnt hear the command of his pursuers were shot dead on the spot. Women absent from their families seized and men farm from their wives and children were not allowed to return. Also children being forced from home were dragged off a mid strangers. Cattle, horses, hogs, household furniture, clothing, and money, not with them when taken were left. And its said that the white inhabits around stood with open arms to seize whatever property they could put their hands on. Some few assisted afterwards in get something of their lost goods. Thus, in two or three days about 8,000 people, many of whom were in good circumstances, and some rich, were rendered homeless, houseless and penniless and exposed to all of the ills of captivity and a few months later the wife of dr. Iliza butler wrote to a childhood friend in massachusetts. Butler was a missionary and was in prison and was happy to see lindsey mentioned him as part of this. Because i assume its because of the case, wooster versus georgia, unfortunately his sacrifice for the most part has been overlooked. But part of lucys letter written from frayclay, tennessee, states. I agree to intermission airy labors in 1927 and lived among the cherokees and began teaching and remained there until 1830 and we moved to a mission station just west of that city in georgia. Here i had not lived a year before my husband was shut up in prison by the authorities of georgia. For refusing to take an oath to support their measures against the cherokee. Or to leave the situation or station which was in the charter limits of this state. After laboring nearly a yeerned half in the penitentiary he returned to the missionary labors among the cherokees but in a little more than a year the same law, which had sent him to prison found means to break up our mission station. We then had an invitation from the cherokees commence a station at this place that is red clay, tennessee, and the method of taking the cherokee natis as prisoners were various. She goes on to state it was common for a party of soldiers guys a wagon attached to the train to be sent to a certain neighborhood on arriving at house and sometimes were able to take large article in the wagon but many times did not terry long enough to change their clothes with them. If their horses were at hand they were often permitted to ride them. But as often as not they were driven on foot at the point of the bayonet. If parents could not carry their k4ir7b children on horses they were ordered to get on back if not were thrown in by soldiers and driven on rough road at such speed in some instances were severely injured. Perhaps the prisoners were driven with more haste from their dwellings on the account of frequent rumor of whose illits and the fear of this led some soldiers to gather with neighbors in the night. To accomplish theyd enter a cherokee dwelling and a family in the midst of their slumbers would be a roused for their march. Here would be grouped together the aged, infirmed, middleaged, youth and children of all sizes. Gather the people in such haste whether by night or by day has been the occasion of much distress and loss of property. Husbands and wives, parents and children have been separated and carried off to different camps where they have known nothing of each other for weeks or months the. They were first taken to 31 sto stockaids in the Cherokee Nation. And the conditions were deplorable. People had no shelter. Only a few blankets as some were able to grab as they were being forced from their homes and inadequate food. These stockades were referred to as concentration camps and may have been the first time this term was used. From there they were taken to 11 inturnment camps. Ten were in tennessee. The remaining one was in alabama. On may 31, the reverend of greater michigan tells brainer mission. Tells of one group. He states astoundingly a little before sunset a company of about 200 cherokees were driven into our lane. The day had been raining and of course all men, women and children were dripping welt, with no change of clothing and scarcely a blanket fit to cover them. As some of the women when taken from their houses had on their poorest dress. This of course was the amount of their clothing for a journey of about 800 miles. As soon as permission was obtained from the officers we opened every door to these poor sufficienters suffers. Mother brought their little babies to our fire and stripped off their only covering to dry. Oh, how heart rendering was the sight of those little suffers, their little lips blue and troubling with cold, id like to tell you how the removal effected my fourth grade grandfather, james hare, Family Tradition is that his motherinl motherinlaw, lindsey ratley gave birth to a baby girl after the round up started and after become driven to one of the internment camps she became to weak to cross the stream and she was stabbed by one of the soldiers and died soon after. And reverend reported in his journal he states we also learned when the last company were taken over the river rosss landing, a woman in the pangs of child birth stood as long as possible but iffel in the river and the soldier stabbed her with his bayonet and soon caused her death. James hare married her daughter only a few months before and lindseys other five children accompanied james and his wife on the forced removal and was by them. So in p mid june three groups of about 800 each started west from rosss landing in chattanooga tennessee, two by without. One by mocsen bend and the others crossed on old getter road. Of that group only 635 arrived in the west. With 146 deaths and two births being recorded. Theres a severe drought at the time with extreme heat and james harris mother katey north along with her father was in this group. Her father, william north, was a white man who married a cherokee p woman six years before, couple months before he was described upwards of 100 years and completely blind for the last 25 years. Theres no record of his arriving in the west. However in a series of interviews conducted in the chattanooga area around 1900 mr. Ag carter tells this story. A white man named north married an inladian who later became blind. He, says mr. Carter, heard they through him in the river on the way west because he was so much trouble. But because of the high casualties of these first groups, permission was given to the later removal of the other groups until fall when it would be cooler. Also the cherokee leaders petitions general scott that they be allowed to conduct their own removal. Permission was granted. James harris father, harrell conrad was the leader of the first detachment to lead that fall however he soon became too ill to continue as lead earnhardt leader and had to relinquish the position. James harris sister, betts, the wife of ashhopper, travelled in the detachment. And reverend butrick also accompanied this attachment, wrote in his journal saturday, december 1, 1838, on a thursday, two children, one a daughter of our dear sister ashhopper were called into eternity so james harris now lost his grandfather, his wifes mother, and his niece. And by this time the extreme heat of summer had given way to unseasonally cold winter and he further wrote on december 26, he descended attachment south of mississippi stopped by floating eyes. Mr. Hill brand attachment stopped by the same means at the ohio river. December 27th, we proceeded with the detachment, about six miles where we camp for a week. Here the snow increased to three or four inches and the weather was excessively cold. Lucy butler, that i mentioned earlier, a letter written december 20th states, my husband is preached among the cherokees and tended on them as physician since they were first taken. Last summer by their request he was appointed a position by general scott in a camp about eight mile from our station. And after arrangements were made for the cherokee to remove themselves he was appointed by mr. Ross to serve as physician and accompany them on the way west. Last letter i have was jonesburg, illinois, on the 19th of november, about 20 miles this side of the mississippi. Did not accomplish quite half their journey at that time. Did have considerable sickness. About 27 of their number laid buried between that place and the one where they commence their journey. Durnding this time and during this time george hicks one of the conductors of the removal attachment and member of the Arabian Church sent a letter to the arabian headquarters in north carolina, 13th of january, 1839, my dear friend and brother, we left the Cherokee Nation east, the land of our nativity on the first day of last november, pick up the light of our march to the far west. And through the mercies of an allWhite Providence whose everready to assist the opressed and whose ears are open to their cries have arrived to our journey to the west. The following winter has been very cold and we have cover a deal of exposure and suffered of cold and fatigue. Our people, great many were very poor and very destitute of clothing d1 we supplied them with clothing, blankets and shoes. But still, we have suffered great deal with sickness and have lost since the 21st of october last about 35 a great proportion of them were the aged and children. Our numbers are probably over 1100. So large a train to attend to their want and to watch over required a great deal of care and industrial and caused a great anxiety of mind. So much responsibility added to fatigue of traveling brought upon me a spell of sickness i thought i should not recover but through the mercies of a all White Providence i have covered a great deal of my health. We now lie 20 miles of the Mississippi River we cant cross, on account of the ice, ahead of us are two detachments of cherokees to cross before we can cross. Mississippi has a large quantity of floating eyes which at times its impassable but still they keep crossing and im in hopes well get over in one or two weeks. We will start in the morning again on our journey west. The roads are all in very bad order as the ground was frozen very deep and theres been for the last ten days a general thaw. Not even any frost. Together with a good deal of wet which will probably make the roads almost impassable. But we must necessarily calculate on suffering a great deal from hardship and exposure before we yet reach our homes in the far west. We look to the all mighty for strength and protection to enable us to reach the place of destination, as yet were hardly halfway. And to look forward on the determination of our journey and our toils we cannot as yet but hope for the best. Respectfully george hicks. So our principle chief john ross left last after he had seen all of the other cherokees on their way west. He travelled by steam boat with a small group of cherokees in order to take those who had been too ill to leave with the regular detachments. While the various detachments were waiting to cross the Mississippi River he visited the camps and wrote the following account. On my arrival at the water detachment at feduka i received letters from the first houses in nashville informing me that it was understood many of the land detachments had been stopped at the Mississippi River by ice and for various reasons is it would be most advisable to transport the immigrants from that point by water. Therefore they sent me proposals for furnishing the steam boats for that purchase. And i also received letters from p mr. Thompson clark skbrunjr. And other persons all urging me in pressingish terms to visit the detachments still at or detained at willis ferry on the Mississippi River. Among the people was necessary to remove many embarrassments out of certain tail calculating them through the roads that were very bad and were impossible to secure to supplies for the sales of horses. These reports were expected to be put into circulat