To bring former nazis to justice. They explored questions raised by recent trials, such as if perpetrators are ever too old or frail to prosecute, and whether it ever too late for accountability. Speakers at this event included a holocaust survivor, a Pulitzer Prizewinning journalist, and a documentary filmmaker. Good evening, everyone. My name is jessica abraham. Im very pleased to welcome all of you in the audience, as those as well as those of you watching online. I want to recognize the embassy of canada, cosponsor of tonights program. You will hear from a representative of the embassy a little later in the evening. I also had the pleasure of serving as cochair of the museums lenders community. The institution and the museum is one that not only honors the victims of the holocaust, but stands as a stark reminder of the importance and relevance of the lessons of the holocaust. The museum has found impelling ways to engage many audiences, audiences one would never expect, people from every background. While the engagement is grounded in holocaust history, it serves as a powerful springboard to focus on genocide issues. The museum is also a stark reminder that pursuing never again is unending. At a time when hatred and antisemitism is clearly on the rise around the world, we must all be willing to stand up, at a time when social media and a rapidly changing world magnify that hate. The museums motto what you do matters reflects that idea and asks each of us to be part of that solution, to make this world a better place. Our amazing and outstanding panel, comprised of an Investigative Reporter, a filmmaker, and a former nazi hunter, will explain what it means to achieve justice 75 years after the defeat of nazi germany. The conversation will last 15 minutes. To the extent you have a question, please write it on a card. We will find copies of the recent and highly acclaimed book the hunt for killers soldiers in america. I have read debbieis book. It is my honor to introduce our speaker irene weiss. Soviet troops approached auschwitz seventy five years ago. While the atrocities there had been documented worldwide, people struggled to leave them. The world eventually recognize the magnitude and horror of the holocaust. She has devoted her life to telling her stories through to as many people as possible. Without further ado, it is my pleasure and honor to introduce irene weiss. [applause] thank you very much for inviting me here tonight. In 2015 and 2016, i was asked to testify in the trials my family and i were part of the hunt gary and transport to auschwitz that arrived during the time they worked there. In addition to being a coplaintiff, i needed to have had close family members who were murdered there. I was not required to recognize them, who served as guards while i was a prisoner in auschwitz. I, along with other coplaintiffss was called to testify about what we saw in the role they played as guards in facilitating the efficient process of genocide. In the spring of 1944, my family was deported to auschwitz from hungary. I was 13 years old. Upon arrival at the camp, my mother and four siblings were taken to the gas chamber and killed along with hundreds of others. My father was forced to work as a commando, removing corpses from the gas chamber. I learned later he was shot and killed. My 17yearold sister, serena, and i were selected for slave labor. We work in the storage warehouse in birkenau located near crematorium number four and five. Our job was to sort thousands of belongings, preparing the belongings to be shipped back to germany. We worked there for eight months. Day and night columns of Young Mothers with children took their last steps as they passed through our barracks that led to the gas chamber. My brain could not absorb what i was seeing. In january 1945, as the russian army approached, auschwitz was evacuated and we were forced with thousands of others on a death march deeper into germany, officially ending in a camp. Evidence of the trial established that from 1941 until 1944, groening worked as a socalled bookkeeper of auschwitz. He was taking the money and valuables taken from prisoners. He also worked on the selection ramp. The others monitored prisoners as they were selected for work or sent to the gas chambers. He also helped control people during the separation of families. It was on record that groening denied any responsibility. He said he was morally guilty, but not legally. He said he worked out of a sense of duty and was just following orders. He believed the jews were enemies of the german people. He did his part. Reverting to nazi jargon from when he worked at auschwitz, never saying gassing or murder. He described witnessing an ss guard bashing a babys head against the side of a truck and actually described it as inappropriate. After all, he observed, the baby could have been killed in a less messy way. For instance, by shooting. This was his way of showing that he had empathy. Showing that he had empathy. He showed the mass killing of thousands of babies and others was not a cause for any reflection or regret on his part. Unlike groining, who gazed around the courtroom, hanning never looked up at all. Some interpreted this as contempt. Others felt he was overwhelmed. None of us knew what to think. His job had been to guard the camp. Experts testified that his ss group was on duty when the deportation trains arrived. Without the guards, the mass murder would not have been possible. He had a leadership role and performed his work so well, he was promoted twice during his time there. My memory of the guard as a 13yearold was terrifying, with their tall, shiny boots and elegant uniforms. They have contempt for us. They have complete power over life and death. They looked at us with contempt. You did not look them in the eye. At the trials, i instead encountered a couple frail old men in wheelchairs accompanied by a nurse. But these old men had been wearing but if these old men had been wearing their nazi uniforms, i wouldve trembled and all the horror i experienced as a child in auschwitz would have returned. Anyone who wore that uniform in that place represented terror and the death the depths to which humanity can sink. So, why had i agreed to testify . I was hoping to hear regrets that they are dissipated in a monumental tragedy. They were also participated in a monumental tragedy. I also hoped they were suffering from their memories of that time. I wanted to hear from them and the others who testified about what the consequences were of what they did. Looking back, did they feel misled by the evil laws and the ideology of the time . Did they regret the part they played in that evil . Did they have lessons to impart to the world of today to resist the effects of mass indoctrination. I was looking to confront and face a person who participated in the destruction of my family. During both trials, photographs of my mother and siblings, taken by nazi guards on the day of our arrival were displayed on overhead screens, becoming part of the Permanent Court record and clearly visible to the defendants. We never received any answers to the question. Groning and hanning did not seem to grasp the perspective of a lifetime, the full moral implication of what they had done as young men. This recurring human failure to take responsibility for evil acts or even to properly distinguish between good and evil one under the influence of nationalism and propaganda makes it the more important on the alert against these forces. A whole generation of journalists, the children and grandchildren of perpetrators of the nazi genocide heard very little from their parents and grandparents about what they had done in auschwitz and other factories of death. It is time, at long last, to stop suppressing this history. One positive aspect of testifying was the close relationship my family and i developed with the german prosecuting attorneys. Their compassion and sense of mission helped to see me through the ordeal of the trial. The outpouring of support from the german public was also gratifying when the survivors arrived each day to the court. The local citizens were lined up around the block, waiting to get in. The trials were widely covered by the german media and i can only help they contributed to the education of the german public about this dark. Dark period in history. To that end, i joined other survivors, government officials last week for the 75th commemoration of the liberation of auschwitz. Our presence in that place, the symbol of ultimate evil further added to the worlds understanding of what happened there. One observation. The german courts were careful to ensure that these two old men received due process related to their health and age. My family and millions of others, jewish civilians, were enslaved and killed without any due process at all. Thank you so much for listening. [applause] good evening. Am i on . Good evening. I would like to thank mrs. Irene weiss for your moving and courageous and inspirational work. Justice is much more than an abstract concept. We cannot lose sight as we are discussing it of the human toll these crimes represent and the pain experienced by these survivors and their families do not have a statute of limitations. Let me begin to my left with debbie. Debbie is a Pulitzer Prize winning reporter who contributes to the Washington Post, and the author of an new book citizen 865 the hunt for hitlersof soldiers in america. I took it on a work trip. I read it all on one plate appeared its that good. Debbie is the newly named director of investigative reporting at northwest university, so welcome, debbie. We are also delighted to be joined by ricky gerwigs. Ricky is an experienced Television Producer and i would like to congratulate you on your first feature documentary. We are pleased to recognize rickyas coproducer in the audience. Currently ricky is a producer at the monk debates, the Worlds Largest public debate forum. Last, but not least, dr. Barry white, Senior Historian at the holocaust museum. Terry is the chief historian down the street at the u. S. Department of justice. So, we have a lot to learn tonight. Before i turned to the panel though, i do want to note that in a tremendous stroke of serendipity we could not have timed the scheduling of the panel much better. Some of you may have seen in the Washington Post last week a great story by debbie or others, about a truly unique and groundbreaking collection of perpetrator materials. Some 361 photographs and documents collected by the commandant of killing center. What you are looking at this morning, on the screen, is just from this morning. This morning we have them delivered to the collection facility. You see the gloved hands of our supporters. This is the kind of material that was evidenced in the trials and prosecution we are describing today. Truly a momentous day for this museum and this field. Debbie, lets begin with you. To write your book, outage you first get interested in the topic echo what brought you to the store and the topic . What brought you to this story . Thank you debbie think you for the question. I was at a Cocktail Party in maryland in the last two moments of 2016. I fell into a conversation with a Justice Department lawyer who, over the course of about two hours, started telling me about this unit inside of the Justice Department that had spent 30 or so years hunting for nazi war criminals and i remember thinking two things. One was how is it possible that 70plus years after the end of the war we were finding nazi war criminals and collaborators in the United States. As a journalist, i was intrigued by the people doing the work particularly the historians as an Investigative Reporter i dig through documents for a living and i really wanted to know people who had spent the all of their professional careers searching for these people. How had they spent day after day and year after year of living through some of the darkest moments in history and going home to their husbands and children. How was it possible to balance those things. And in your book you follow those threads. One about the processes. And how you came up with strategies to look at cases about which we may not have had jurisdiction. Ricky, how did the film the accountant of auschwitz come about, and how was this a story you set about to tell at the outset . I was working as a Television News producer in canada. In april, 2015, we get tickers every day that tell us what the main headlines are that said, auschwitz guard goes on trial in germany. I thought, he is guilty. What is the point of a trial. The more i read about his case, but also his story and legal precedent that allowed him to be prosecuted i thought, wow. Theres a lot more here than just our clothes, closed case. Theres a lot to unpack and moral and legal ambiguity and i think that a documentary might be a great place to explore that gray area. For those who have not seen the film, it uses this trial to get at the failure of the german prosecutors after the war in going after the perpetrators and how this new generation has tried to rectify that by interpreting the law in a different way, but also the people who are therefore being prosecuted are the lower level guards, the people who were not necessarily pouring the cycle into the gas station, but the people like Oskar Groning or hanning who made sure the camp was running efficiently. Who are also complicit. So, thats how i came to that. The story. And im sorry whether it was the story could tell, how it unfolded. There werei do feel quite fortunate to say that the story we told is the one we wanted to from the beginning. I am quite pleased in that. Instead of talking about the film, lets have a look at a clip from it, one that gets to some of these existential questions about, is it ever too late to pursue justice . How low is someone in the hierarchy, and what is that guilt . Lets have a look. It is too little, too late. This needed to be done a long time ago. But how ridiculous is it that they are doing it now, when these people are all in their 90s . music so how do we get to the point that there is such a trial as the Oscar Groening case . I would like to turn to you, barry. You are a historian, not a prosecutor. I know this is not the career path that you initially had in mind. What initially brought you to this work and since osi, the office of special investigations, the former name of this doj office, it was only established in 1979 how did you and your colleagues grapple with some of these questions, about, is it too little too late, how old is someone . I did not set out thinking that i was going to investigate nazi crimes. In college i studied european history and languages, and one of the things that really got me to focus more on german history was the experience of growing up in the segregated south. My parents worked for desegregation and civil rights, so from an early age i recognized the cruelty and evil of racism, and i wrestled with the question of why so many people i knew who were themselves kind and consider themselves good christians and patriotic americans would go along and even support a system that seems obviously contrary to their values. German history, in the early 20 century early 20th century, provides the ultimate example as to why these civilized, and supposedly educated people to send into persecution to genocide, which we would like to think is the most uncivilized of behaviors. I went to graduate school and specialized in german history, wrote on a military topic not great choices in terms of finding a lucrative career, but as it turns out, osi considered my knowledge of the german army and ability to read old german handwriting to be an asset. When i was given the opportunity to help the chiefs in measure it justice for the victims of racism, i felt so lucky and honored to have work to do that i was fully committed to it. How long did you end up doing this unexpected, unplanned thing . When we were hired, we were told the office will last three to five years of most. I worked there for 29 years. The question about the age of perpetrators we got that a lot. A lot of people challenged us about the push back we got. People would say, why are you going after these poor old men for something that they did decades ago . And i would generally respond yeah, i agree with you. It would have been much better if they had been brought to account backt in the day. If they had not been able to lie about their activities and get visas, they might have gone to actual refugees or victims. But when do you suggest that we set a time limit, after which you say to a perpetrator, congratulations. You avoided justice long enough, now you can just let out your life and live in peace amongst us. This is a question that doesnt come up around other types of perpetrators. Debbie writes in her book about my colleague, mike bernstein, who was murdered when terrorists blew up pan am flight 103, 30 years ago. Of 20 years from now, we find someone here who had some role in the plots, nobody is going to say, poor thing, we should not prosecute that person, that the person is the advanced age somehow outweighs the right of the victims and their families to justice. The work i did , that this country, which for centuries has provided a refuge to the persecuted, will not willingly be a safe haven for those who persecute them. And to clarify for the audience and people who may not be as familiar with the basis on which osi was persuing these perpetrators, you are not actually charging them with crimes related to the holocaust. What was their violation . You mentioned visas. Nazi crimes do not fall under the jurisdiction of u. S. Courts, so the governments only remedy is to try to take away their citizenship and remove them from this country. You cant take away peoples citizenship against their will. You have to show that they acquired it illegally. In osis cases, most of the defendants came in under immigration programs that specifically barred anyone who had participated in persecuting nazi victims. So what osi sought to prove was that these people had participated in persecution and then gotten their visas by concealing that activity. So in fact it is there violation of their application. Thats right. We prosecute it under civil Immigration Law because the statute of limitations on criminal violations had run by the time osi was only is a humorous personal side note, i will say that within the last 10 years i have helped sponsor my husband for a green card, the one i was born in the midsixties. In his application, it asked if he had ever been a member of the nazi party between 1933 and 1945. It is still on the application. I do