To participate in todays hearing. Members are reminded to keep p their video function on at all ible for hemsel theyre notot recognized by the chair. Ve the members are also reminded ey that they are responsible for muting and unmuting themselves. To mute themselves after they r have finished speaking. Consistent with regulations, 96s astaff will only mute members and witnesses as appropriate when not recognized to avoid inadvertent background noise an otherre embarrassments. Members are reminded that all house rules related to order ano decorum apply to this remote trn hearing. G this hearings entitled exposure notification and Contact Tracing, how ai helps localities open safety and researchers finn it pure. Statem i will now recognize myself for four minutes to give an openingc statement. Good morning. Todays hearing will focus on the essential trade offs that ry the covid19 pandemic is forcing upon us to make between life, liberty, privacy, and the pursuit of happiness. A and the role that technology, financial transaction data, mab Contact Tracinge apps, and Artificial Intelligence in particular may be able to play to improve that essential tradeo off. And there will be a trade off. Americans have come to see privacy as an essential part ofo liberty. And the trade offs between privacy and state interests are something that we struggle with continually on the Financial Services committee. E. Ifif ones only concern were li and the pursuit of happiness and crushing the covid19 virus as c quickly as possible, one can imagine setting up a dystopian surveillance state where every n credit card purchase, every web search query, the exact very m locations of everyov cell phone were continuously monitored and where ai powered facial e recognition cameras, not only d when b you are buying groceriest whole foods but everywhere you went. This would be an epidemiologists dream and would allow whatever country that implemented that to very rapidly crush the coronavirus pandemic. D whenever someone tested positive, their credit cart purchases, their cell phone prr data, all their Financial Data t and other data would be immediately analyzed. Ai and inrly fact some press reporn indicate that korea, an effect otherwise fairly free country finds credit card data to be a key component in effective Contact Tracing. This aggressive approach would allow faster Scientific Understanding of the spreading mechanisms as well. Re lik ai learning algorithms might rapidly learn that you are, for example, much more likely to spread the disease if you happew to buy three beers at the bar than if you bought only one. And cell phone location data would indicate that you are likely who you are likely to suchrvicead it to. Such an aienabled pandemic surveillance state would correctly identify in real time, for example, that super spreader individuals almost never wore masks in public and that churches and Sports Events were especially dangerous places to congregate. But witho a surveillance state that would automatically warn black lives matter protesters to disperse. And there are assenti huge numb worries along those lines. The and this is all essentially g this is not science fiction. This is essentially the same technology that hong kong and thee chinese mainland governmen is using to suppress protesterse inven fighting for their libert. Such Surveillance Systems might well save life and maximize life and arguably even part of the pursuit of happiness. And perhaps it would even maximizeis would economic liber opening our economy sooner. But this would come at a respon tremendous cost todi individual privacy and liberty. The trade offs that we make ree responding tont covid19 have rl financial and economic impacts. D a atorrecent study by goldman s quantified the trade off between mandatory Mask Policies and economic growth. They found unsurprisingly to scientists that mandatory asking but policies havee negative impact on the spread of covid19 but a positive impact on economic growth. Re thisop alloweden countries withp mandatory masking policies to reopen their economies sooner while maintaining acceptable covid19 infection rates, thereby successfully trading off the loss of liberty for mandatory masking tracing or in from Economic Activity from earlier opening of the retail i economy. Contact tracingne apps togetherd with back end ai that combines the raw data from cell phone tracking and various forms withl other data sources including bs financial, that covid positive e patients might opt into on a voluntary basis, has the potential to capture some of the health and economic benefits of much more intrusive monitoring while preserving acceptable levels of privacy for those whon opt in. At this hearing, we have expert practitioners experienced in the development of privacy preserving Contact Tracing software, in real tief tracing in pandemic situations, and in n studyingesse the perils that ma lerk. I look forward to hearing from our witnesses and recognize the Ranking Member for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman and special thank you to our witnesses for being part of this hearing today. Ays today well discuss how technology assists the country with reopening. Take there are many ways in which md local, state and federal es get governments as well as b businesses, schools and other organizations can take advantage of modern technology to help our communities get back to normal. B one area where technology could be usefulul iscont inac contact. The manual method of Contact Tracing involves Public Health t officialsac speaking with officials who have the virus to identify people who they have close contact with during thes time they have been infectious, notifying those people of theirf their exposure and referring them for testing. In a nation with about 333 million people, its difficult to manual Contact Tracing on a mass scale. However, there are encouraging technologies that can enable Contact Tracing to be done with smartphones, including bluetooth or other location data, to track peoples movements and match them to the movements of others who have been exposed to the virus. In order for digital Contact Tracing to work, it must have strong participation from citizens. Experts estimate that 40 to 60 of the population in a given area would need to participate in Contact Tracing system for it to be effective. This means that in the United States where participation in Contact Tracing is voluntary, and should be, and is handled primarily by state and local Public Health officials, citizens will need to trust the apps that they are using and feel confident in their privacy will not be violated. In order to have that trust, it is critical the citizens understand what data will be collected, who will have access to the datacing and unloaded at states and other parts of the world. Recent polling indicates about twothirds of americans would agree at the Contact Tracing app developed by the federal government. Some european entries where the government has released the Contact Tracing app less than 3 of the appalacian is using the app. Countries like china have increased perspiration by making Contact Tracing mandatory and have used social media platforms to track movements. Needless to say it should not happen in the United States. Given that privacy will be paramount a and should not happen in the United States. Given that privacy will be paramount, a major limiting factor in our ability to enact nationwide digital Contact Tracing is that we do not have a Consumer Data Privacy law or do we have a. Contact tracing is operating under a patchwork of state laws and the circumstances only increases the need for a National Standard. Committee republicans have been working diligently to develop a Consumer Data Privacy proposal without a National Consumer data provides sea protection law. This issue is best left up to the states. Another limiting factor is the accuracy of digital Contact Tracing apps has been questionable and could result in false positives or false negatives. The cdc stated in its guidelines that more data is needed to assess the true Public Health value of digital Contact Tracing. Criminals have also been posing as Contact Tracers to ask consumers to share their Social Security numbers or bank account number, which can subject customers to fraud or subjective consumers to fraud and further reduced the Publics Trust in Contact Tracing. Another challenge is that low income and Homeless Individuals who have been disproportionately affected by the virus, often do not have a smartphone which limits the effectiveness of digital Contact Tracing in those populations. While these are important topics to address, they are generally not Financial Services conditions and its best to have these discussions with committees of jurisdiction. For example, the energy and Commerce Committee will have a hearing on some of these issues tomorrow. I look forward to hearing from our witnesses and i yield back. Thank you. The chair will now recognize the chairwoman of the Polk Committee for one minute. Thank you very much chairman foster. I thank you for holding this hearing in containing and preventing the spread of the coronavirus. It is essential to protecting our economy. While last weeks employment figures demonstrate a slight rebound in the number of coronaviruses cases is sharply increasing and state reopenings have halted or reversed. Contact tracing and limiting the period of coronavirus is critical for all aspects of our economy including Financial Institutions that may bring workers back to the workplace. I look forward to hearing our expert Panel Discuss how Artificial Intelligence and other technologies can be used in and exclude inclusive manner to help contain the coronavirus and ultimately keep people safe. I want to thank you and i yield back the balance of my time. Thank you. Today we welcome the testimony of Brian Mcclendon, the ceo and cofounder of the siddiqui project which is building a suite of open source applications to help States Reopen responsibly without compromising privacy. Previously, he was Vice President and cofounder of google earth and street view and Vice President of mapping at uber. Secondly, doctor krutika kuppali, an Infectious Disease physician who has previously worked on the front lines of various humanitarian responses including the 2014 west africa a bullet outbreak and the current drc ebola outbreak. And now the coronavirus outbreak. Andre perry whose focus has been on the onset of the covid19 pandemic, the underlying reasons for the disproportionate deaths among the African American community. He focuses on Machine Learning and Machine Learning for health and sustainability. He is founder of the path Check Foundation, a global nonprofit building open Source Software and standards for digital Contact Tracing and exposure notification to stop covid19. Witnesses are reminded that your oral testimony will be limited to five minutes. A chime will go off at the end of your time. I ask you to respect the members and other witnesses time by wrapping up your oral testimony is scheduled. Without objection, your written statement will be made part of the record. Mr. Mcclendon, you are now recognized for five minutes to give an oral presentation of your testimony. Mem chairman foster, Ranking Member loudermilk and members of the task force. My name is Brian Mcclendon im a Research Professor at the university of kansas and the ceo of. Previously, i spent ten years leading the teams who created google maps and google earth and many other job related services. Thank you for giving me the chance to speak before the task force to date. In my testimony, i will describe how privacy, disclosure and opt in Data Collection impact our ability to identify, locate and isolate those who have been exposed or infected by covid19. Siddiqui project is a fiveinone c three help focused on helping america reopen responsive really giving the ongoing pandemic. Get together with my world class engineers and developers, we built user data privacy into a key app called cvkey and we are focused on getting that adopted around the country today. It focuses on individual symptom checking, policy communications across communities and Access Control to venue such as universities and schools. As weve recently seen in the media, there is a significant need to improve communication of policies if we have hope to operate at anywhere near close to normal for the next 18 months. Artificial intelligence and Machine Learning were part in part large amounts of data for train purposes. This ground truth data helped algorithms figure out to make better predictions. The most valuable data can be found in the Contact Tracing interviews in infected and expose people. Early detection, reporting and testing needs to leads to quick self isolation in quarantine i can help shut down the spread of the virus faster than any other method. But only if it is resourced sufficiently and executed well. The phone calls the Contact Tracers make are often not answered as most people do not pick up from unknown numbers these days. When the Contact Trace or just reach a potential case, they have to make a decision about whether to ask the person to quarantine based on what they learn about the persons risks during that conversation. Without quick information from the infected or exposed, the virus is quietly spreading. When exposure notification apps provide the way to use sole phone data to detect, after the fact, whether you are near someone who later tested positive for covid19 by notifying you and informing you of next steps. These new apps offer a way to help Contact Tracing scale with less effort, more accuracy and more coverage than it is otherwise possible. There are two ways that leads to do this. The first is using gps information logs to compare where the infected person was relative to everyone else. The first problem with this is that gps locations are not accurate enough, even outdoors, to ensure that someone is really within six feet for ten minutes. The other more serious problem of location data is it contains personally identifiable information that can be impossible to algorithmic remove. I can guess where somebody works and lives, i can easily figure out who that person is. Usually by pulling Additional Data from kermit surely available data surfaces like equifax. Implementations of this method were deployed in the uk, north dakota and utah and did not meet with success for multiple reasons. The biggest one was fear that either Big Government or big tech was tracking anyone who installed it. Next, always on gps location, it has Material Impact on battery life so folks turned it off or on installed it. Finally, without sufficient protections, the data can be used or stolen from others. A better solution is to use Bluetooth Low Energy signals to allow phones to recorded when they are near other phones. And ive implementation can still log tracking but provide protection for privacy. Theyve had countries Health Agencies to build and release apps using this tech. In the United States, they were not delusional enough to assume that a single federal solution could be adopted so they are working with one group or state. Like doctor raz near group, my team is building in the app using this tech and we believe it preserves privacy better and works better than gps solutions. The goal would be to get as many people as possible in the state to download this app. But the dock the challenge is of course even if we get 40 installed uniformly across the group, we will only have 16 of exposures detected. So we need to find better ways to market the app. The privacy is much better than gps because the data that eventually gets updated in the rare case youve been infected is just a set of random numbers that have no firsthand identifiable information. And then, when the other phones download this random number set, they notify their users without doing any cloud work at all and tell the user that they have been exposed and recommend that they call the Contact Tracing team. These inbound calls make Contact Tracing more efficient and more effective. I believe that privacy is critical to marketing these apps to americans because i think they are very worried about what these apps can do and we need to get and install these apps. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Doctor kuppali, you are now recognized for five minutes. Thank you chairman foster, congressman loudermilk and distinguished members of the task force, for the opportunity to testify in front of you today. Im extremely grateful for your interest and commitment to helping support the coronavirus. In the United States as we attempt to control the deadly pandemic. I am an Infectious Diseases physician by training and have extensive experience in Global Health and health security. My Critical Research focuses on Health System strengthening, albert preparedness and response, research and Clinical Care of emerging infections, and health care policy. As the covid19 pandemic continues to spread across the United States, i hope to give you a greater understanding of the threat this has to the global and Economic Security of the United States. I will discuss challenges facing Public Health experts and researchers leading covid19 effort domestically, i will explain how we made better coverage available to resources in tools to improve our response capacity and provide examples of other countries who have successfully implemented policy needs to control covid19. During this unprecedented time, it is vital for the United States to cooperate with a Global Community so that we can learn from each other and develop better practices to ensure that science informs policy. In early 2020, as the world watch covid19 sweep over you wuhan and sweep through china, countries prepared for the inevitable. Governments realize that covid19 post in unprecedented risk to the physical and Economic Health of their countries and activated pandemic preparedness plans. The three most common components of successful plans are number one, the development of a comprehensive National Plan led by science. To, rapid scaling up of testing capacity. And three, prioritization and implementation of Contact Tracing. The United States accounts for approximately 4 of the global population. But for 25 of covid19 cases and fatalities globally. More concerning, is lockdowns have been lifted over the past month and there has been a record increase of covid19 cases with over 45,000 cases per day since july 1st and record 16,000 cases in the last 24 hours. Leading to the halting or reversal of business openings across the country. With coronavirus case surging across the United States, it is imperative we have dropped a central element of an outbreaks response. It should include a cohesive plan led by science. The cornerstone of such a plan should be that the test, isolate and Contact Trace cases so we can contain this pandemic. Contact tracing often called the linchpin of an outbreak response is critical to identifying those who have potentially been exposed and to halt transmission. While many states have hired Contact Tracers, additional federal resources, infrastructure and training will be required to ensure we have a sufficient and well coordinated workforce to provide this vital task. Based on Current Population and data, experts estimate each case requires 20 ten to 25 contacts to be traced. Thus requiring at least 300,000 Contact Tracers. Another vital component to successful Contact Tracing is leveraging new and Innovative Technologies to promote efficient and broad implementation strategies. Although technologies are increasingly used, it is important to remember the ethics of Public Health information, Data Protection and data privacy when using any of these technologies. South korea is an example of a country that has successfully contained covid19 and used technology to assist in their Contact Tracing efforts. In the aftermath of the 2015 murders, south korea invested sore resources in Training Health care personnel and developing response systems, infrastructure and laboratory capacity, for future Infectious Disease outbreaks. When the 2019 outbreak took off in south korea, in addition to using standard methods of Contact Tracing, they also used medical records, gps systems, credit Card Transactions and closed circuit transactions to utilize a more robust Contact Tracing system. It was thought that this information provided more Accurate Information on individuals, location, duration of exposure and other relevant details that in exposure patient may not even be able to recall or confirm. Considerations and calls for privacy were taken into account to ensure only information related to Infectious Diseases were communicated. Covid19 is the greatest social health and economic threat of our generation. How we choose to manage it will be our legacy. Until we have a vaccine, control will rely on using surveillance, testing, Contact Tracing and isolation to prevent transmission. Given the United States has a prominent role in global technology, can leverage this expertise as an opportunity to take a leadership role in developing a robust Contact Tracing system to contain this outbreak. Finally, we can leverage advances in biomedical and Information Technology to develop new systems in an approach to enhance our ability to prevent, detect and respond to future outbreaks before they become national or global epidemic. Thank you again for the opportunity to testify before you and i look forward to answering your questions. Thank you. Mr. Perry you are now recognized for five minutes. Yes chairman foster, Ranking Member loudermilk and members of the task force, thank you for inviting me to testify today on this extremely important issue affecting millions of people across the country. The covid19 pandemic will continue to take significant more lives than the proximity hundred 30,000 it has already claimed if the United States government does not invest in tools that are proven to combat the spread of the virus. Including strategies that aim to dismantle Structural Racism. According to an analysis published july 5th by the new york times, latino or black or hispanic and black residences in the u. S. Are three times as likely to become infected as their white neighbors. Higher covid19 mortality rates among black and brown communities reflect the historic devaluation and disenfranchisement of their lives, properties and communities. Structural racism is the preexisting condition that must be accounted for in our battle with the coronavirus. Its hard to calculate the damage that the lack of coordinated comprehensive federal responses caused the families and terms of lives, jobs and businesses. Those losses will even be more severe if theres not sizeable investment in infection testing, social distancing, mask wearing mandates, medical supply chain coordination, extended paid leave, supplemental employment insurance, hazard pay and Contact Tracing. However, the universal application of these preventative tools wont eradicate the substandard housing, poverty, limited Job Opportunities and other conditions are Structural Racism that underlie the Racial Health inequities. My written testimony presents three general concerns regarding Artificial Intelligence and Contact Tracing as it pertains to Structural Racism and racial bias. First, Contact Tracing and exposure notification are not necessarily remedies for Structural Racism. Contact tracing and other Public Health tools are not neutral. They can exacerbate or mitigate the impacts of Structural Racism. A second concern taken up by my testimony revolves around representation. Contact tracing systems should include the people from the communities that have historically been excluded from other systems that generate Better Health and economic outcomes. From the tech tools that are developed to the Contact Tracers hired, black and brown people must be included in any effort to expand Contact Tracing. Manual Contact Tracers rely on different skills of interpersonal communication and empathy in order to build trust and receive and interpret information. If we hire an army of white Contact Tracers to track the spread of the virus, we should expect unequal or even negative results in black communities. In addition, if we do not hire local black and brown people to serve those neighborhoods, we exacerbate the racial wealth gap which also serves as a barrier of protection against infection. Hiring black and brown manual tracers offer an opportunity to add jobs to the neighborhoods that are experiencing higher levels of unemployment. Ey dthird, ai tools and health e the same risk that they do in other fields. A eye is only as good as the information and values of the programmers who designed it. Their biases can ultimately lead to flaws in the technology and amplified by a season in the world world. Our expedition into Digital Tools must demand greater recruitment and investment in black and brown tech firms, rigorous reviews and testing for racial biases and more engagement and involvement from local communities. Consequently, we need more Due Diligence and intellectual exploration before we deploy Ai Technology to communities on mass. Systematic racism and discrimination are already embedded in our health, housing and educational systems. Developers must intentionally build ai systems through a lens of Racial Equity if the technology is not going to generate outcomes that reflect the by cease of the developers. As more black and brown people are exposed to these racial inequities, more will die from covid. The proliferation of the Coronavirus Forces us to see our inherent connections in a way that our Public Policy has not always recognized. Individual recovery is contingent upon how much we collectively live by the principle of being all in this together. If undocumented residents are sick, the countrys citizens will be as well. If black and latino or hispanic people suffer from covid19s effects, so will Asian Americans and white people. But being aware of our vulnerability is not the main problem, the trap of racism and systematic inequality is. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Raskar, you are now recognized for five minutes. Do we have. . Tank you chairman foster and Ranking Member loudermilk. And to the members of the subcommittee and full committee for the opportunity to testify today. Some honor and privilege to be here today. Let us compare how we use a highend technology for hurricane versus the pandemic. National Weather Service can analyze and predict by collecting data every day. However, responding to the dynamics of a hurricane is different from responding to the pandemics. Pandemics are about people being at risk because of other innocent people. We need realtime participation from people and that is why Smartphone Apps can play a big role. Given this is a social problem, i want to emphasize treatments. First, how to augment manual Contact Tracing with bottomup apps used by people. Second, how to make sure that apps arent trustworthy by also preserving inclusive and built by open source and nonprofits. And third, how we may create equivalent as the national Weather Service as a National Pandemic Response Service, we have this National Ai Platform that leverages these privacy preserving apps. I come to this question having spent much of my last decade working at mit in ai, Digital Health and algorithms for privacy. Weve been privacy preserving global ai and distributing Machine Learning materials called split learning. It can build a without accessing any raw identifiable data from individuals. Other teams have also built wonderful techniques that will be used in the u. S. Census 2020. In march, our team at am i tea created one of the first privacy preserving Smartphone Apps called mit smart paths and that led to the creation of a Nonprofit Charitable Organization dedicated to building free open source and industry standards that assist u. S. States, nations and private sectoral organizations. Our nonprofit is already building Case Management apps that can service various states and nations. Frankly, it has been a humbling experience to work on this complex challenges for the last few months. And based on our learning so far, let me address three concerns and also present some recommendations. First, we must require that Public Health authorities augment their manual Contact Tracing solutions with digital apps. There should be privacy first because trust is key to Public Acceptance and Public Acceptance of this digital apps will help the country solve the tracing problem cheaply, quickly and at scale. A path Check Foundation, we are working actively on this hybrid approach by combining notifications, personal guidance and Case Management and we hope such apps can augment and simplify manual Contact Tracing. Second, congress should sent out a series of requirements to ensure this Contact Tracing apps are built transparently, as open source, ideally by nonprofit, and just like other public utilities, are open for scrutiny by the public. And obviously, this app should be inclusive across social economic disparity and do not exclude those who do not have the latest technology. Seoul while at pat Check Foundation we are very proud to deploy google, apple, and bluetooth api, we also want to support local Solutions Like you are codes and wifi and so on and continue to work on with communities and schools and businesses to provide innovation. Finally, the National Pandemic Response Service based on Smartphone App will need a National Response that will allow us to take micro and macro aggregation of analysis and prediction. Instead of creating a surveillance state and a top down system, lets build a bottom up smartphone based solution. We need a new ai that relies on the information stored on peoples phones. What we have learned through our work at mit and privacy preserving ai is that we can truly create that decentralized ai and orchestrate the social economic and interactions between, individuals and businesses without creating a servile state. Our Analysis Shows that a modest budget of 100 250 Million Dollars can create a Public Private partnership that can provide a data Ready National Service for National Pandemic response. At the same time, this National Service can help us be ready for a nasty flu season in the future. To conclude, the need of the hour is increasing manual Contact Tracing with apps. Lets make these apps inclusive, open source and trustworthy and built by nonprofit and lets build a National Pandemic response built on aggregation of data from these privacy preserving apps. Thank you. Thank you. I will now recognize myself for five minutes for questions. Mr. Mcclendon, you mentioned the necessarily of maximizing adoption of Contact Tracing apps in order to maximize their effectiveness. Businesses may well have a role here. According to price water house cooper survey conducted in april, 32 of financial executives are evaluating the use of Contact Tracing to help protect their workforce. This raises a number of questions as Financial Services and other Companies Continue to bring back workers to offices over the next few months. How can Contact Tracing effectively fit into their pants . Are there problems in making the use of Contact Tracing apps a condition to employment . Furthermore, this Contact Tracing offer benefits over, for example, performing frequent covid tests and temperature checks . I dont know if i can speak whether frequent checks will do better or worse but i do believe that Contact Tracing, deployed widely, digital Contact Tracing the point widely will help. So speaking about the coverage problem. 40 of a uniform population adopting only mean 16 of Contact Tracing effectiveness. We need more adoption, 60 70 . When we have doing that is working with employers, universities, schools and populations that deal with a sense of community and want to protect each other by installing this app. Its really a marketing challenge. I look to situations where the ways app was deployed in cities. How uber installed its app and got sufficient penetration. If there is not enough penetration in the community, these apps will not be successful. So having employers do it i think is a valid way to increase the penetration. But it should not be mandatory, it should just be strongly recommended. You should also use the fact that if you do not get these exposures detected, and a Company Might then become a hot spot, have an outbreak and have to shut down again. I think everybody is now very aware of what happens during a shutdown. So preventing the shutdown by keeping your communities safe i think is a pretty strong notification if we can communicate that message. Doctor kuppali, do you have any thoughts on your perspective on this . Going to your question about temperature checks versus testing, i would say that one of the challenges with doing things like temperature checks is that we know that up to at least 40 , at least right now, of transmissions occur in the asymptomatic state. That means a lot of times, we are having transmissions occur when patients dont even know they are infected. So relying on things like that are really challenging in this particular infection in terms of trying to understand maybe who youve been in contact with or who might be infected. I think that is something we need to think about as we are thinking about employing these types of applications. Thank you. Mr. Raskar, i noticed in your testimony that you have been working on creating Machine Learning methods that can build ai without accessing the raw data. This sounds a lot like encryption we had at the previous hearing on. To me, its just a fascinating technology. But i have a simple question on how this can work with the number of contacts is small. For example, if you are by yourself all day for a whole week and then you go out and meet one person and they get notified that you have been exposed, you pretty much know which one person that is. So what are the limits to these privacy preserving techniques that may be important for people to know about . Is congressman, given your background in physics, i would love to have a conversation about encryption with you. But to the question of privacy, we have to first of all think about data production has different layers. Theres confidentiality, theres anonymity and then theres privacy. Those three things are very different. In Public Health scenarios, actually today, we only get about confidentiality, not as much anonymity or privacy because eventually you do have to meet a doctor. So its not like a cryptocurrency where your identity is never revealed. So i think the challenge is that if you only met one person and got exposed exposure notification and you would know who the person is is a classic example of our goal being to serve the Public Health. Although notification based on bluetooth serves some purpose which is whether youve got an exposure notification or not, we could challenge here for Public Health a bigger challenge for Public Health here is understanding the context of that encounter. And for the context. I will attempt to treat myself fairly and gavel myself here and recognize the Ranking Member for five minutes for questions. Thank you mister chairman. It has been very interesting the information that we have received so far. My first question will be to mr. Mcclendon. I do appreciate your focus on data privacy and security when it comes to Contact Tracing. Coming from in i. T. Background, using the bluetooth technology, your cooperation with different businesses, i think is a unique approach. It may have some validity there. But if we were to implement a federal Contact Tracing system, how would you be able to ensure to the citizens that you are able to know exactly what data is going to be used or collected and who has access to that data and how that data is going to be used . I think those are three critical areas that, if youre going to get by the general public and get their confidence in this, that they do need to know those three things. Exactly what data is going to be collected. Who is going to have access to that data and how it is going to be used. Right. So i think, as i said, i feel it is a marketing challenge. It is communicating how things work and explaining it to users. And so for the data that is being collected in the bluetooth solution, that data is random and completely stored on the phone until the user, who is infected, ops in to uploading those random numbers to the server. So it detects it requires a second opt in. From a control perspective, youre putting your control in the hands of the user. Thitheir data will never be pud out from under them. It will always be in their control. And i think that is a very strong message for folks. As far as what happens when you get an exposure notification, the other innovation in this technology is the notification determination is made entirely on the phone. Then the communication of what message is sent to the user is provided by the state or, in some cases, the country. So you have the opportunity to communicate to an exposed user, here are the things you should do. But we do not know who that user is until, again, they opt in by calling in for the manual Contact Tracing team. These inbound phone calls are going to be much easier to handle because the Contact Tracing team will not spend a huge time making that phone calls. These will be in bound and they will be users who are interested in learning more about what this means. Let me better understand the situation. So for instance, i may have been tested positive. I have this app. I go to a store, wearing my mask in doing everything, so if someone else gets near me, my phone through the app captures their number . And then i choose whether to upload that . Is that the scenario . Or does it automatically notify the person that you just got in contact in close proximity of someone who has it. The general system is after you have tested positive, you are staying at home, lets hope. The goal though is that prior to you testing for two weeks of testing, prior to you testing positive, your phone has been broadcasting these random numbers and has been collecting the data on your own phone of walls youve seen. And on the day that you test positive, the Contact Tracing team pot calls you up on the phone to talk about your positive test because they were notified and this is all part of the standard process. They ask you to upload your data and give you a unique onetime password to upload that data into the cloud. The data that is uploaded is random numbers, no identifying information at all. At that time, all the other phones download the data and see, if the last two weeks, they were near you. If they are, they get an exposure notification but its only that they were exposed and they have to call the manual Contact Tracing team to learn more. So is the only numbers that are uploaded our numbers of people that are using the app or all numbers . The only numbers that are uploaded are of the infected person if they were using the app during the last two weeks. The numbers of other people around, they dont have to be using the app. So does that create a problem where the person with the app is than determining if the information of lets say, if i was around someone who had been infected and got tested, then that person is determining if my phone number is going to be uploaded or not. No. The data that you are applauding is no one else is data. The infected person is applauding the random numbers they were sending out, not receiving. So its literally only your information. Everybody else compares whether they ever saw your number in the phone. So again, its only if each of the parties is participating in the app. If someones app if someones phone does not have the app installed, then they are not part of the situation at all. They will not get notified. And if they are infected, theres nothing for them to upload. All right thank you. Happy to give you dispensed in for really interesting questions to let them being answered. And so thank you for that mr. Ranking member. I would now like to recognize the gentleman from california, the full Committee Representative waters. You are muted maxing. Im unmuted now. Yes thank you very much. I want to turn to mr. Perry. Speaking to the use of technology and responding to the coronavirus, including digital Contact Tracing and as we deal with various social distancing protocols, you reminded us through your research that black and brown people have already been socially distanced through segregating housing policies. Limited inadequate hospital facilities. Smaller and often unsafe living areas, more polluted neighborhoods we and fewer opportunities. In addition to strengthening our response to the pandemic, policy makers must make sure that our response does not perpetuate these structural inequities. Mr. Perry, what consideration should a digital Contact Tracing program take to ensure that minority communities are served well by these App Based Solutions . Do you have other suggestions on how technology can be utilized in the Coronavirus Crisis response to ensure communities of color are not further disadvantaged, including with respect to their ability to access credit. I have a few responses to that. One, whenever we have crises they present an opportunity to build capacity in areas that we currently do not have. One of the weaknesses of many ai enable technologies is that they have not been tested, vetted or created by founders of color. Leading to all kinds of gaps and lapses. But its clear that we do need, in black communities, levels of technology because we are disproportionately impacted. The problem is that black people in particular, and brown people, are caught between a rock and a hard place when they do find out that they may have been exposed. Wherein disproportionately, concerning jobs, that we are unable to take two weeks off. We are nay unable to socially distance for periods of time. As i indicated in my written testimony, we see how intergenerational housing concentrations in cities like new orleans, detroit, birmingham, all these places where black people are concentrated. We know there will be exposure because of the underlying conditions. The underlying conditions that lead to the rapid spread of the virus. And so for me, i am looking at this from a structural perspective. Yes we need to maximize manual tracing and use a technological tools to help them along. But contact racing provides Job Opportunities, it improves the quality of tracing mechanism, theres a lot to be gained from still leaning on the manual tracing. I have to emphasize this. We are ultimately investing in tech companies, firms, innovations, that we need to use this as an opportunity to build wealth, build capacity, build opportunity in black communities because that is the reason why, or lack thereof of those things, are the reason why we see rapid spread in black communities. So for, me its not to say that its too late to Deploy Technology in a way that makes sense for black communities. But it is to say that if we do not advance manual tracing and if we do not build capacity, the next inevitable crisis will be right back in the same situation we are in today. Where technology will probably not one we cant responded to technology in a way that alerts wants us to. And to, we will not build capacity in areas that we need it built. Thank you very much. I yield back. Thank you. The representative from North Carolina mr. Budd is recognized for five minutes of questions. Thank you chairman. Thank you all members of the panel for being here. It is a fascinating and very timely conversation. Weve now seen several countries using Contact Tracing as a means to combat the spread of covid19. Is there any credible evidence that show that these methods have had a Practical Impact on mitigating the spread of disease . Yes. Weve already said that were still inventing this whole field of digital Contact Tracing. We know that manual Contact Tracing works for small outbreaks. A Digital Solutions have some hope. I think in some countries, we are seeing an adoption of ten to 15 in just a matter of weeks which is good news. As mr. Mcclendon explained beautifully, if these technologies are truly deployed by tech players, they could be out there in many ways. My assumption is that if we use a bottom up as well as topdown solution. A top gun solution would be like we respond to hurricanes. But this problem is really about people interacting with people so we need a bottom up solution as well where the participants in this case, people who are innocent but could be spreading diseases to others, are participating in the system. The infected and exposed individuals are willingly participate in the system, then we can combine this top down and bottom up approach. If we can do that in a privacy preserving way, i really do not see any reason why we cannot do that. Right now in the u. S. , we have 70 smartphone penetration in the age group of 18 to 64. What according to some estimates, 70 of the Contact Tracing done manually could be done by smartphones. Contact tracing poses an interesting dilemma. Digital Contact Tracing involves a level of surveillance they can make a lot of people uncomfortable. Especially given the involvement of Large Technology companies with spotty records on privacy. What steps are developers taking to ensure that these privacy concerns are being addressed . Some of you mentioned the low energy bluetooth, the apple protocols and standards. I wanted to see what is being done to address these privacy concerns. Very good question. I think there are two ways to think about it. I think the bluetooth is a fantastic development. As great is the google protocol is, if another Technology Company tries to provide a solution which is already for profit, even if exposure notification is not profit, simply the ip address of the same user can be used by the private company in multiple ways. So that comes into conflict with the original intention of apple, google and pat Check Foundation have. We believe to make it trustworthy and inclusive, it should definitely be open sourced and available for everyone to scrutinize and collaborate. Ideally, it should be built by companies that are nonprofit and not related to profit businesses. I think if we do that and create a National Grid of this app. And my foundation, we believe we can all Work Together and create additional grid and that will also be part of this National Pandemic response system. Thank you. Just following up, ive been supportive of a robust federal data system to root place replace the confusing patchwork of state laws. I think that is necessary. To be sure, we have to go well beyond gdpr or cpa which are more about confidentiality and anonymity. We need to go one level above that for privacy which means even the app company does not even know anything about the user. Very good. I have a few seconds left but i will yield back to the chair. Thank you. Thank you. The chair will now recognize the representative from illinois mr. Casten for five minutes. Thank you chairman, thank you so much for all our guests. Really building on mr. Buds comments, i would love to hear from doctor kuppali. We have, globally, such a high range of how Contact Tracing is being done. Is it being done by cities, by counties, by states, by countries . People of course move across borders but there is a logistical challenge with scaling this up at the highest level. If youve got to be king or queen, if you prefer, tomorrow doctor kuppali, clearly from an epidemiological perspective, where do you think is the ideal level of government to coordinate and effective Contact Tracing strategy . Thats a wonderful question. Thanks very much. As i said in both my written testimony and in my oral testimony, i really think that we need a National Plan to help coordinate this entire response. The crux of that is Contact Tracing. I think, when it comes to Contact Tracing, the important thing would be to be having some sort of federal plan for that that is then given down to the state and local governments. As we all talked about, and especially during an epidemic like this where the virulence of the disease is so high, every infected person has ten to 25 contacts to trace. Thats not someone a manual Contact Trace or can do. It is important for us to rely on our technologies to augment what manual Contact Tracers are doing. And i think it is important that it is a coordinated effort between our local and state and federal government. Also while leveraging our technology. Thank you. So shifting to mr. Mcclendon, if im following right all of the apps we are talking about developing our essentially backward looking. We are going to know who you were in contact with, we find you have a positive test, we will go back and look through the historical record. But in the context of Artificial Intelligence, so many of the really cool things we do with ai right now are predictive. Whether its ways predicting where the traffic is going to be at 4 00 today as i tried to get to Downtown Chicago or the stuff that we spend a lot of time with on this committee with Algorithmic Trading and finding out whats top is going to be surging or where theres going to be a short stop next week. Is anyone thinking about what could be done on a predictive level if you had these Contact Tracing tools . Could you start predicting that these are the kinds of places that these are high risk to go . Where we should be going . Is anybody thinking that or are these purely backwards looking apps at this point in the scope of peoples ambition . I think the challenge right now is to understand the passed pretty well. So manual Contact Tracing interviews where the Contact Tracing Team Interviews the infected or exposed person, where that person has been, what they have done, that is the kind of data that would be great to send in to a Machine Learning algorithm to then predict where hotspots might be in the future. But right now that data is obviously siloed due to privacy issues and county tools and state tools that are not compatible with each other. Its also not normalized. So to doctor kuppali comment, i think there does need to be a federal guidance on how we should do things. I dont think the federal government should own this problem but i think there should be clear leadership about, here are the tools and processes that we recommend that states do and that counties do and that Contact Tracing teams do, to collect data effectively. Then using Data Analysis that retains privacy and differential privacy, we can start to generate these predictive models. Largescale Data Collection is being used for predictive things if you look at the ihra university of washington models, they are using a large collection of data including things like mobility reports, and when different states and counties have implemented mass rules or lockdown or some of the other aspects. They are able to see the effect of different policies and then are now predicting that if a state implements a mass requirement today, they can say this many lives. We would for example in kansas if we all follow mask mandate will say to hundred 50 lights by november 1st. Thats the projection. That projection is made using data that has been collected over the last several months. Thank you. Ive so many more questions but were out of time. Thank you so much for your time. We will now recognize the gentleman from indiana. Good afternoon everyone. Im really excited about the discussion we already have on this panel. My questions are for you doctor. Im on a biological and epidemiological level, heres what i want to know. Given where we are today. What is a realistic achievable success looking like in the United States prevaccine and what it looks like pro post vaccine. What is achievable, given the numbers of infections we have today . Great question. Thank you for that. Given where we are right now, we are now in a were not in a great place. We had 60,000 new infections in the United States. I think one of the things that has been challenging at this particular infection in the United States is that we have what we like to call every local at municipalities doing something. That is been making things very challenging in terms of containing this outbreak. We are still having challenges with things that we were having challenges with five months ago. Testing is still a problem. Tracing is still a public. Isolation in quarantine is still a problem. If we dont get those things fixed we wont get the outbreak under control. We need to fix those things. In terms of where we are today in where were going, we need to work on advocating for interventions that weve been advocating for. To be more specific, sorry, are we to the point, given the number of infections that weve had where we are basically managing down the number of infections at the rate of infections and Hospital Capacity systems until we get to the point a vaccine, or is there realistic hope given where we are that we can bring infections to a blinding slow, small number . Thats what im trying to understand. Every epidemiological study says given we are today, the best we can hope for is managing infections down, managing Hospital Capacity to we get to vaccine, not trying to stop an outbreak, all in and of itself. Sure. I think again its going to depend on how we uptick these Public Health interventions. We know the public intervention, we know they work. It depends on how well we can get community to buy into that in terms of how well even going forward, once we have a vaccine, its going to not just depend on the efficacy of the vaccine, it will depend on how well we can get people to uptake the vaccine. Studies that have been involved show there is a lot of work to be done and trying to convince people to take up the vaccine we cannot say we will have a vaccine and this will be over. I think its all right. I think an indiana, mature fits happening elsewhere, but peoples desire to take significant steps based on covid19 is declining, not increasing. Given the fear that they felt in march, at least we have not seen a significant research. I want to get two other questions. One, there is an obsession with kind of the total number of infections since january two millions. That to me seems strange because what we care about right now is our current, symptomatic or communicable infections at the present point, where what matters is how many people have this today, either symptomatic or asymptomatic, but can transmit the disease to others not those that got it on jenner 20th and recovered and can no longer chance in the disease. Are we tracking should we be thinking more about like you articulated, the number of infections per day and the number of recoveries per day to better understand the evolution . I think all those numbers are important. I think we need to understand told a number of infections that weve seen in our society, but we definitely need to understand what is going on on a daytoday basis. Not particularly were not just seeing the numbers go up but were seeing the positivity and the number of cases going up. Thats important because also looking at what is going on in the hospitals and can you clearly tell me, what is the clinical already definition of recovery in this infection with covid19s. The lack of communicable lady, not showing symptoms. What does recovered mean, explicitly . Pardon the current guidelines means that you no longer have symptoms. We cannot test to make sure you dont have a cover anymore. Thank you so much. Thank you. Already thank you eu. Thank you mister chair. Thank you to our Witnesses Today already. According to a 2019 research study, anyone already percentage of americans can own a smartphone, the same study found that while whites, blacks and hispanics own smartphones that at roughly the same rate overall. Small smartphone ownership with significantly lower for older and low income americans. These communities of color. It is also been this proportion in those impacted by the pandemic. They are at greater risk of contracting covid19. They have a much higher likelihood of being unable to recover. Mr. Mcclendon, what is the benefit of a voluntary at base digital Contact Tracing system, when the most vulnerable are also the least likely to be able to engage with the technology . All right it is a very fair question. Some of the questions you have on tech participation capability. But this specific contacted section is where you are getting it preferably from smartphones. You only argument that could be made is that if we deploy these widely, the infection overall will go down, and there will be much less opportunity for anyone to get infected. To your question about being in the second wave right now. Contact tracing will be very hard to solve the problem but if we can get the disease down to a slow enough level, we can actually drive it down. There is little to no exposure for everyone, and these Contact Tracings can really help with that. Its important to understand that to the part of the question of wearing a mask, will greatly reduce the transmission and by itself, that single act will reduce the factor to below one, and eventually negate the disease. Everybody can participate in mosques. Im a strong believer that we should be promoting masks. With the amount of data being collected and potentially being analyzed by a i, what type of privacy and contact notification is there . In the case of the specific google apple it is extremely private. There is no information exposed at all unless you are infected and unless you choose them to provide data to a service even then, that is not part of the analysis. The only in Interesting Data is Contact Tracers, with that interview reveals as far as the contacts have been made. What kind of symptoms are they showing. And monitoring those people. They have a lot of work to do. Ill just reiterate what everybody else is saying. We need better staffing. We need people in the local community to work, because in the state, empathetic communicative experience already for that we need people of the community. Thank you. All right do you foresee already for the collection on data of people of color in the future, and how important is it for us to limit Data Collection, if you think that . We should be prepared for a racial bias that will negatively impact people of color. Weve seen bias algorithms in health care. Algorithms steered by patients getting away from Higher Quality care. Criminal justice software used forecast the risk of reoffending incorrect lee mark at twice the rate of a white defendant. Again, what i said earlier in my verbal testimony was that this the ai for Contact Tracing runs the same risk if we do not thoroughly that these products that are going out. We do not know necessarily, but the way i hedge by not knowing, its through inclusion. Already weve got to bring in one Contact Tracers that was mentioned from the community, because if you dont establish trust, these products will not work well. More importantly, we have got to invest in black and brown firms. They are more sensitive to the algorithms and function that often lead to a bad outcome. Does meeting the mitigation rate versus the suppression will rate for testing in terms of states and municipalities and localities what does meeting those rates in mean in terms of opening . Meeting the medication please go quickly. Quickly, please. Basically, there are different rates that we look at for when we are in different phases of the epidemic. We need to scale up testing quite a bit to meet those rights. Thats the quick answer. Thank you. The representative from the lone star state, mr. Taylor is recognized for five minutes. Thank you mister chairman. I appreciate being here with all of you. This is an important conversation. I think this epidemic has certainly brought up to me the importance of having consistency and our Vital Statistics counting. We have had seen some heads nodding in the state legislature in congress and we came into problems around counting data we had different different rates and we get sort of duck down and and realize well when he was doing it oneway any other another way. So we started working on working with state standards. If you can believe it, in 2020, there is not a federal National Standard for collecting Vital Statistics. That in turn, is leading to desperate answers in terms of the way localities and four states are reporting. We has federal policy makers are trying to figure out, how do i deploy assets . Because the data is being collected differently, he might not realize youve got a problem even though we do have a problem. You might think you have a problem when in fact you dont have a problem. Im working on a bipartisan basis with my colleague from florida to work on the beginnings of a study in the appropriations bill. Hopefully we will see it later this month. To come up with starting to study a National Standard for vial statistics collection. To cullen county where i live, we were not counting, we were actually ritually counting people who were sir logically positive as a covid case, and then we were told, dont count that as a covid case. I see you nodding and smiling. Maybe have a reaction to what im talking about or maybe youve seen this. Ill just say, a person working in a think tank. We need consistent, reliable data. There is a lack of standards. I would fully support any kind of legislation that leads to standardizing these vital records because without it we really dont have the information to really address the problem well. I cant really add much more but we need consistent reporting on these issues. Data is so important. At the same time, data is valuable only if it can be triangulated from multiple sources. If you just to Data Collection in a counties are participating. Communities are participating in some other ways, then the data becomes more valuable and more accurate. Another example, at home, we originally, if we had a husband and wife. The husband tested positive in the white had symptoms, we would assume they were covid positive but we would not report them as covid positive because we did not use want to use a test on them unless they needed hospitalizations. We were dental by the states, start counting that person as a covid positive. Reported as a covid positive case. My county showed a spike in cases because they were previously not reported as positive but they were. This is a decision, a county decision that has been written over by his state decision. What i would like to see is a consistency and the reporting of data. Im glad to see so many people nodding. It is the secretary of health and services immediately understood. We need consistent Vital Statistics. So that my county is not guessing on what to do. Every county knows what to do and that it is a standard. I like the point youre making about National Standard being useful. Not just for hindsight for what has happened in the past but for insightful is going on right now. About the prediction and for sites as well. For that, we need triangulation of data. If we do have an equivalent of a National Service here, if you just not look at what is going on today, but start predicting them going forward. We heard that different mutations are variant and different ways. Responding to them in oldfashioned ways. The mechanisms we used a week ago or month ago are not as useful as what you will see them a month or even six months from now. Whether it applies to common cold, or under Public Health challenges are dealing with this pandemic, i totally agree that a National Standard of that kind would be good. When very brief this is an opportunity for us to really rally behind the data. If you really want to get people involved in a very mask way, you have them participate in the collection. This is another opportunity to really exercise that principle that we are all in this together. Thank you mister chairman. I yield back. Thank you. I will abuse my chairmans prerogative to point out that i am also in the upcoming appropriations will be to once again, have the hope to repeal the ban on a unique patient identifier. This is simply a database key that would allow you to uniquely identify medical records, which is a very important issue. Im proud we got a strong bipartisan vote to repeal that ban in the house and of course the senate and with the senate does, which is nothing. I just flag that. It is an important thing. Its the starting point and getting consistent, national records. Its to be able to identify who this person was. Now, the chair will recognize representative garcia. Also from the lone star state, mister chairman. I am sorry to have missed that. Pierre thank you for this very important hearing. Its such a critical time. Some people have noted that this is not just about what we need to do today, but in terms of standards, requirements and guidance to operate under. I thank you so much. I want to start with mr. Mcclendon. I want to make sure i understood when you were referring to the Ranking Member on his question about using the app and what the information inspect up. Everybody would have to be using the up for anything to talk to from your app, correct . Correct. Only data from participants who have installed the app will have their data recorded within the funds or in the case of an infected person. If they do not have the app, they are completely outside the system. For this to really work, everybody has to wear a mask, and everybody has to use the app. I would like for that to happen and will work very hard to market that message to convince the community. I just want to make sure that it was clear on that, because i want to switch to the good doctor. It has been so hard to get everybody to wear the mask. I have some of my colleagues who are not used to wearing masks. Its become politicized. Not only two of them are wearing them. How will we convince people to sign up to an app to be able to convince them, even if we cannot convince them to wear a mask. That is reality. Great question. I think that first of, we need to stop politicizing this pandemic and really need to let the science lead the way because we are talking about human lives. Secondly i think we need to be clear about the privacy safety that we are going to have when it comes to using these apps. I think its really important. As weve seen in other places that have been able to successfully contain covid, one of the things also is people having good trust with not just the people that are doing the work, but also in terms of the governments and people that are working on this work. I think it is all really important. One of the things it is extremely important and we need to continue to work on is engagement. Engagement is going to be important. Trust is going to be important. Making sure we protect peoples privacy is going to be important and getting people to uptake these kinds of things. I want to ask you a question related to that. I have been struck that you used the word several times, that it should be a nonprofit, and also it should be available inclusively to all communities. Tell me about that. Why would you suggest that it would be an up that would be distributed through nonprofit rather than for profit . I think we have great companies, great Technology Companies doing great work. I worked with facebook for two years. I was with apple privacy team last year. All these companies have great intentions but all of these Companies Use meta data and nefarious ways. You may not realize that every time you go to oh i realize that. I just wanted to hear you say it. To focus on this particular app. I think it is critical that it be done through distribution of sorts through a non profit . Yes, exactly. To make sure everybody can get it. It should be non profit. It should be an open source. It should be audit anytime. In a trustful manner. Make sure its inclusive. The challenge is that if it is not done by non profit and for profit, it can use the meta data, even if it is the apple notification up, they can use that method data for that app on the servers and use that they could be tempted to use that in other ways. If the same company has two apps, went up that is used for tracing, which is supposedly private, and another app is doing something else, those two apps collectively can create a more collective picture of the user. We want to commit to collaboration, commit to being on a terry. It should be done only once. Is that just people who are used to doing Community Health work neighborhood by neighborhood. Exactly. The important part about it as the development of the app, not just if the app works right now. It should also be driven by the mission, which is to get the notification is just the beginning. The Case Management, interviews, monitoring and support should be the foundation. We will use a hybrid approach where we can outflow Contact Tracing through the app the rest of the process requires Contact Tracing. Mister chairman, i front out of time. I did have a question, but thank you so much. I yield back. Thank you. The chair will now recognize mr. Gonzalez. Thank you mister chairman, and thank you for recognizing the great buckeye state. Thanks for this important hearing. Very interesting topic, and one that i think were all trying to wrestle with, frankly. I want to start my question with mr. Mcclendon. I agree that it is a marketing challenge. I would argue, it is an enormous marketing challenge, asking every day americans to trust to entities big tech and government, and naturally we dont trust and for good reason, unfortunately, and so my first question is, and you sort of alluded to it, but what is the minimum amount of adoption you could get and still have an impact . I dont believe he can get anywhere near perfect. People will just not going to opt in. But tell me a little bit about that. If it was perfect according to the statistic 90 penetration. Even if it were perfect, we would only discover 81 exposures, because both parties have to have it installed. The square problem is a big deal. 40 only gives you 16 of exposures. I am hoping for 50 to 60 where we discovered 25 to 36 of exposures, and those become those inbound phone calls. As far as how to do that, i think we really need to get communities to buy, whether its agencies that published the app. We need every town, university, church, synagogue to convince their members to participate in this process, because if you get densities of installations, ive installed bases, that works. If you could get 80 of the University Community to install this app, that works within the community, all of the exposures within the university will be discovered much more quickly. The ones that happen in the rest of the town, maybe not so much, but i think there is an opportunity for individual communities to bring their members and and convince them we really need this to be a community response. It will be community by community. I can tell you for a fact. My counties are not in. They will not do not for the app. I dont blame them, frankly. I think a different strategy would probably make sense for their. Mr. Perry, i want to shift you. You mentioned something that i think is really important. We talk about who is most vulnerable. My figure from the beginning with this virus is that it would accentuate our biggest city qualities and i think it has. It has shined a light on the fact that those who are most vulnerable are having the worst outcomes with the virus, i think. When i think of how we can get ahead of that as the outbreak continues, i think, how do we protect our low income wage workers, our minority populations, those who cannot socially distance either at work or in the home. I am a hispanic. My family was born and cuba. This beautiful lady over my shoulder was my grandmother who lived with us, basically until she passed away. Im a multi generational household that do not distance as well. Just by nature of the living condition. With that in mind when thing that ive started working on and i would drop here soon would be a program which would allow hotels on a voluntary basis to convert to can covid housing places. So that if you then get the virus and you cannot distance at home you have options of checking into a hotel which would be picked up by the government. So just as a general concept, i would love to just get your thoughts on that as a way to help our communities who cannot distance for a variety of reasons, giving them an option if they pick up the virus, to self quarantine in a way that is safe, and wont infect the whole family. As was mentioned. Contact tracing must be paired with other social supports. If they are not you really minimize the impact of them. So i agree. There are trouble areas that are critical. We need a housing response, and we need an Employer Response and if we are not talking about employment insurance and we are not talking about some type of workforce housing, housing for the sick. Housing for the vulnerable. Then the Contact Tracing mechanism really will be limited. In scope. Thank you, i yield back. I would like to thank all of our witnesses for their testimony today. Without objection, all members will have five legislative days to submit written questions for the witnesses and to the chair, which will be forwarded to the witnesses for their response. I ask our witnesses to please respond as promptly as you are able without objection, our members will have five legislative days in which to submit materials to the chair for inclusion in the record. I remind members to submit written questions and materials for the record to the email address that has been provided to your staff. This hearing is now adjourned. Treasury secretary Steve Mnuchin appears before the house Small Business community on oversight of the Small Business administration and department of treasury pandemic program. Live coverage begins friday at 10 30 am eastern on cspan. Later this month, u. S. Attorney general william barr appears before the House Judiciary Committee for general oversight hearing on the justice department. On tuesday, july 28th, watch live coverage of the mnuchin hearing friday. We watch anytime on cspan dot or listen on the go with the cspan radio app. Tonight on American History tv, our series landmark cases produced in cooperation with the National Constitution center, we explore the issues, people and places involved in some of the most Significant Supreme Court cases in our nations history. At eight eastern, we begin with shank the United States from 1919. Holding that men who distributed leaflets encouraging resistance to the draft can be convicted of a crime under the espionage act of 1917 and that the First Amendment is not absolute. Then at 9 30, from the 1944 case holding that japanese internment camps do not violate the constitution as they were justified by the Governments National security interest during world war ii. Watch landmark cases tonight on cspan three and any time
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