Transcripts For CSPAN3 1960 Lunch Counter Sit-Ins 20240712 :

Just trying to get some fix on where we were and what we were about to do. I was trying to be slow and heavy so my anxiety would not get too high on me. I felt my temperature increase. I could feel my collar sweating, coming off the side of my face. I did not have to always ask joe what he was thinking. We looked at each other and both of us looked at the calendar at the same time. We just started to walk towards the counter, without a single word. That is how it happened. And we took our seats. University of massachusetts hammers professor, Tracey Parker, joins us now on cspan and cspan 3 for a discussion about the lunch counter citizens of 1960. Tracey parker, who were the greensboro for and why did they decide to sit down at that woolworths lunch counter on that february day in 1960 . Thank you for having me. Those greensboro four were four young men who were just College Freshman at North Carolina and tea state university. The three of them had met and high school, and so they already had a rapport. They met the fourth, Joseph Mcneill, as freshman in college. They had actually been thinking about racial injustices, how to integrate, how to push the movement along, for sometime now. But it wasnt until Joseph Mcneil is returning to school after christmas break in 1959, when he is refused a meal at a greyhound train terminal. He is just trying to buy a hotdog. And he gets back to campus, and he is emboldened. He says enough is enough, and so him and his four friends said they are going to target the wall worths and go stage a sit into desegregate eating facilities in greensboro, North Carolina. What i find interesting is y. A. Woolworths. Wool worths was a five in time that many people of a certain age probably still remember. It was a chain Discount Department store. And it was recognizable because it is a chain across the United States to people. There is a way in which you can recognize it and see yourself in, it and if you wanted to replicate a similar movement, you could. But also, will worth, slack Many Department stores of the time, operated a very contradictory policy when it came to African Americans. They were free to enter, brows, and purchase. However, they were not allowed to eat at lunch counters or other eating facilities. They couldnt use beauty shops. They couldnt try on or return clothing. They were denied credit. They could be provided uneven or Unequal Service at any moment at the whim of a sales worker. So woolworths becomes a place that is very visible for showcasing the Racial Discrimination and segregation of the time, of the country, and it also then for them could be one of the most ideal places to visibly dismantle the system of racial injustice. What was the state of segregation in 1960 . We are talking six years after brown v. Board of education. What was that like, especially in the retail and shopping realm . This is a huge moment, when the brown versus board of education decision comes down, outlying racial segregation in public schools. It overturns the 1896 plus versus ferguson decision that had stipulated that separate but equal was constitutional. After the brown versus board of education decision, the desegregation of schools a slow. It is extremely slow, very little done. Then in december of 55, rosa parks initiate this movement, which is the montgomery bus boycott movement, which last a year. But between the end of that movement in 1956 to 1960, very little had changed. And i think that there is, there was a generation of students, and these are generations of students who would have been the age of emmett till when emmett till was brutally lynched and murdered, who had been shaped by watching the death of emmett till, watching montgomery bus boycotts, understanding that when they go into a store, the rules for them are different. And when they went to go get something to eat, the lunch counter itself was a symbol of white supremacy. It was a symbol of how the country, how the marketplace, how these stores, try to keep them in second class citizenship. Tracey parker is our guest. This is a professor in the department of africanamerican studies at the university of massachusetts, amherst. We are talking about the 1960s lunch counter protests in this hour, and being joined by our friends on American History tv on cspan, inviting you to join the conversation. Phone lines are split up originally. There is a special line set aside for sitin participants and their family members. If you remember those days, those citizens, please call us. We would love to hear from you as we go about this hour of the washington journal. Professor parker, why did this movement become the one that gets pointed to, the greensboro protests in particular . Why is that the one that started this new round of sedans . This wasnt the first lunch counter protest. There had been other stool sedans that had happened, going back to the forties and fifties. Why is this the one that gets pointed to . Its a historical moment. There is an energy and a desire for immediacy among young people. We are in a moment after the second world war. The economy is prosperous. African americans have now relocated to urban centers. They are making more money. They are more educated. So the time is right. And then we have the emmett till, the montgomery bus boycott. They show us both the tragedies of the movement, the everyday realities for African Americans, but also the possibilities of movement. So i think for those Young Students they were tired. They were frustrated. I know that the greensboro for mention that they were not only motivated by the death of emmett till, by the montgomery bus boycott, but also, king had come to speak at their college in 1958. Listening to him speak about nonviolence and listening to him speak about the injustices of the world really motivated these young men. Well they are having this conversation at their university, women over at bennett college, which is a historically black Womens College, they are having similar conversations. So there is an energy. There is a conversation going on. And this seems to be the moment in which to do it. We are also at a moment where the federal government is arguably more supportive of civil rights than it had been probably since the reconstruction, those years between 1855 to 1877. How long did the greensboro said and last . How much attention did it get at the time . How did it start spreading to other cities . It lasted six months it ended july 25th. And it ends after will worth slant counter has lost approximately 200,000 dollars, which would be equivalent to roughly maybe 2 million today. They decide to finally integrate while the students are on summer break. When they left on summer break, it was black High School Students from the area who took over the reigns of this movement. The intensity continued. Finally, the manager of woolworths decides he will have three of his black workers dress and their sunday best, put on their street clothes, not their uniforms, and sit down at the lunch counter indeed. Ideally, by the time these College Students get back, business could return to normal. A minute, ago you mentioned the Womens College in greensboro and the participants there. Who is esther terry . Doctor esther terry was one of the participants of the greensboro sitin. She helped organize the sitin. She was a university student. She speaks quite openly about how she was influenced, not only by her colleagues, the other women, but also by her professor and by the president of the university. There is a true support system at bennett college, true encouragement that they had in this movement. So she participates and she is actually arrested at one point for her participation in the movement. But esther terry has gone on to be a leader of what historians call the second student movement, whereby students were not concerned necessarily about public accommodations, but this time they were concerned about integrating universities. There is more black faculty at these universities and not only that, but that the curriculum matches, reflects, the diverse population that they are hoping these universities will have. So she eventually moves to massachusetts after earning a masters of arts at the university of North Carolina chapel hill. And there she earns a ph. D. In american literature. She helped find and chair the deputy duboiss department of africanamerican studies, which i am a proud faculty member of. And she helps found one of the first black studies programs in the United States. One of the places where esther terry spoke about her experiences was in an oral history interview with the library of congress. Its Available Online in its entirety. We want to show viewers just a clip of that interview. And i think it is very important to note that woolworths became an ideal that you cannot sit down for a coke. You knew you could go into woolworths. Woolworths was not closed to black patrons at all. You could go into woolworths. You could buy anything you want to that they sold if you had money. He just couldnt sit down to get a sandwich at the lunch counter. It was the lunch counter. You can sit down there to beat. I think we might have been young, because honestly, i felt proud. I dont think my mother ever felt, maybe she felt proud, but i think that was not herman feeling. I think she was terrified. I know that now because i have a child. I think as a mother, i would be afraid. But im going to tell you. We were proud. I was proud to sit there. I was very, very proud. Ill tell you something else. I never, ever understood the hatred that came. It was absolutely surprising. I did not understand why people would glare at us with some hatred. That was a little unnerving, but i was basically very proud to have done that. Esther therrien that library of Congress Oral history. Tracey parker, she talked there about her mother being fearful of the danger that she was in. Can you talk a bit about the reaction to the lunch counter sit in . The reaction is mixed. Its interesting. When the first, when these young men first get to the lunch counter on the very first day, they encounter a white waitress who tells them that they dont serve African Americans here. That white waitress gets a little frazzled. She doesnt know what to do, so she calls over a black waitress. And the black waitress quickly tells them they are making trouble and instructs them to leave. You would assume by that statement that perhaps maybe she was anti protest. But i think in reality, what she is is she is scared. She is scared of what could possibly happen to these young men. She is scared of what could possibly happen to herself. Right . And so you see that type of sentiment going on, but increasingly, as the Movement Goes on, these four man this, movement itself, receives immense support from the surrounding community, from the black community. If they were not sitting in at the lunch counters, and i should say that this movement was not simply at the wolves department. It eventually spread to another five and dime. Increasingly, you have more students deciding to sit in. And for those who are not sitting in who may have been their parents, who may have been their pastors, their teachers, those folks participate by way of an economic boycott. So what they are doing is they are holding their dollars from these stores until these stores make substantial change. And together, it is the sit in. Its the notoriety of the sitin. Its being televised and reported in newspapers. And its the economic boycott that is damaging store profits and reputations that is central, integral to making change in these places. Professor Tracey Parker is our guest this morning with the university of massachusetts Amherst Department of African American studies. We should also note her book, the author of Department Stores and the black Freedom Movement. We are taking your questions and comments about the 1960 lunch counter citizens in this hour of the washington journal and on American History tv. We have that special line for sitin participants and family members. Bonnie is on that line out of miami. Good morning. Good morning. I wanted to share with you a very vivid memory from when i was 14 years old. I was living in new york city, and my friends and i had gone into town to see movies and shop and we came upon a large crowd outside our very popular woolworths. They were chanting, and immediately, i signed on, joined the chants, and i will share with you. One, two, three, four, dont go into woolworths store. Five, six, seven, eight, southern woolworths segregate. At that very young age, i immediately knew as a white girl this was wrong. There was something wrong with our country, which unfortunately, i would have to reiterate today. And these certain people who started the movement back then and succeeded, of course, with the integration of the lunch counters, we need them again today i am afraid. Thank you so much. Body, thanks. Tracey parker . I think thats a very typical story. This is why using a woolworths, a chain, is so important. You could have such a broad reach from not simply the one that woolworths you are protesting against, but also it cant connect to others. Now you have a movement in new york city. It is supportive, in alliance with those who are trying to integrate these public spaces in the south. What was core and how much involvement did National Civil Rights Groups have in these lunch counter sedans . The core was the congress of racial equality. It was founded in the 19 forties and one of their major tactics was the sitin. They have been employing the sitin in the 19 forties and fifties when the greensboro sitin began. Local naacp members actually call court with the understanding that they have a sense of how this should go. Right . How used train students to take the attacks, to stay nonviolent, to stay strong, and invited them in for support. But what they are also voting on, which is good, is a tradition of black protest in the community. They are drying on them but also the Labor Movement. The Labor Movement had been using sedans in the thirties, not only to rail against an equal, unfair employment treatment, but also to desegregate restaurants as well. Some of them were part of the congress of industrial organizations, the ceo. You talk about training. Can you talk more about how that worked and what people who are going to go and sit down at these lunch counters, how they tried to prepare for that experience . Sure. Nashville is one of the most, the students were the most trained there. They were quite meticulous in their preparation for the sitin. And what they would do is they would hold classes. When i teach these sit in movement in my civil rights class, i always use, there is a clip in the movie the butler, where the students i believe are in a basement. They are practicing. They are helping each other prepare. You have someone sitting in a chair and a friend of yours is going to act like they are counterprotesting and push the chair, spin on you, call you racial epithets, and it is to prepare one for what could happen. We know from various pictures, film, Television News reels, what these protesters went through was frankly horrific. We had students who had hot coffee thrown in their faces. They were spin on. Milkshakes were thrown on them. They were violently beaten. They were arrested. They were preparing these students for the fact that it might not simply be physical harm or arrest. But it could end in death. Was the whole idea to not react and to continue the tradition of nonviolent protest . Was the whole idea to hold that chair and to stay in that seat for as long as possible . Talk through the goals a little bit when it came to that training. The goal was really to stay nonviolent, to adhere to these nonviolent principles that gandhi and doctorate leave the king had been touting, because, and again, its important what moment we are. And we are in a moment where television is big. We are showing students dressed in their sunday vests. Theyre sitting with their schoolbooks simply trying to get school work done. They are staying polite, staying nonviolent, and just taking it and what then, what the whites look like, white segregation, they look barbaric. They look angry. They look as if something as simple as these young men and women wanting a coke or a sandwich results and brutal, this brutality. It becomes a very convincing argument that African Americans are in fact first class citizens. They are in fact respectable. They are dignified. They are humans. And that is the work of doing, of making this all very visible. February 1st, the day the greensboro lunch protests began. By april of 1960, some 70 southern cities had soft lunch counter sedans. Thats what we are talking about. Looking back 60 years to lunch counter protests in this hour of the washington journal and history tv. This is kathleen out of california. Good morning. You are next. Thank you. I am 58 years old. This is my history as well. I found the demonstrations so moving, so powerful, so effective, so glorious. For my 58yearold perspective, i dont see nearly as many peaceful protests any longer. Why this form of protest . Why does it affect you so much . Because it was so novel. Thats exactly what our society should look like. You should be free to go eat lunch, regardless of religion, color, anything. That was noble. Martin luther king was noble. When i went to public school, we were trained on his words and they were noble. I find so much nobility and i thought we were finding success. From todays perspective, i am very troubled. Professor parker . I think the sentiments you express are quite common. It is an interesting place that we a