Transcripts For CSPAN3 History Bookshelf Richard Rothstein T

CSPAN3 History Bookshelf Richard Rothstein The Color Of Law July 12, 2024

Can to reverse in this country for a long time we saw ourselves as a country with a racial problem underneath that that there are pure races that exist in this country a white race from europe for a black race from africa and an asian race from asia and the latino race. I dont know where or even that the actual name comes after the attempt to take somebody something from somebody happens so define problem but really it is the things about we continue to do to this very day. But the way that racism is a figure into the idea of race we will talk about a particular power it was created through the housing policies sold talkedabout the place and also in our daily lives. Guest. Let me say the fact that we live separately every metropolitan area has a nervous implications for so maybe you can start there and talk about housing in and how it affects us in our daily lives. Let me say the fact that we live separately every metropolitan area has a nervous implications for those that we face i spent a a good part of the achievement gap of ice wrote about, an African American children. When you concentrate children, with serious social and economic disadvantage isnt in single schools. They cant possibly achieve at the levels that they would achieve, even in those same disadvantages, if these were in schools that those problems werent predominant. So you have African American children, they have generally poor health than white children. So they are upset more often so a teacher can accommodate to that, and they can pay special attention to children who need special help. What if every child in the classes in poor health, than a typical middle class children, there is no way to give every child a special hell or special attention, and the curriculum as a whole has to become remedial. In a few children in the class are stressed because of economic insecurity, because the parents are unemployed and they are acting out of, you can deal with that. If every child in the classes having stress, and attention and much more issues and deal feel it has to be dealt with behavioural issues. So the fact that the children are concentrated with these disadvantages, affects the major education problem we face. We spent a long time in the last few years actually, that we focused on confrontation between police and young African American man that strictly is a function of residential segregation. So we did not have segregation, police would behave to serve and protect their communities. And young men, would not be helpless because they were living in communities, where there were no jobs no access to jobs, in a transportation. And they would be attending schools where teachers have, difficulty accommodating the overwhelming problems that they face. So that problem, stems from residential segregation. We are concerned about growing inequality in this country. Growing inequality and economic and inequality. Its driven in part by residential segregation. We know from research for example, that low income children, who grow up in a middle class neighborhood, are much more likely to be middle class as adults, as children who grow up in the segregated neighborhood. So so many problems we face is a society, stem from segregation, and thats why i thought it was six important to explore how it happens and what we can do about. It so i have a question why is it that segregation, negress necessarily, has to lead to certain outcomes for African Americans, and is it the mere fact of. As i said it is primarily because, lower income children who are concentrated in single classrooms, reinforce each others problems. And prevent teachers from being able to, address those individual problems without disrupting the entire class. If every child in the class, houses problems. Key then it is becoming more difficult to deal. Which i guess you could say that if you could integrate, low income African American children, throughout middle class African American neighborhoods. You would not have those problems. And that is true. But as we all know, Income Distribution in the African American community, is lower than the Income Distribution in the white community. Partly because of the history of residential segregation. That is not a realistic policy alternative at this point. So i would never suggest, and i dont suggest that black children would have to sit next to white children to learn, but low income children, tend to be disproportionately African American in this country. And a half to sit next to middle class children, in order to have a productive learning environment. And it is not related these you know one of the points i think you make is that they come from wealthy households to. Yes they do come from wealthy wealthier health households, and thats the legacy of residential segregation. So please do. I think its really really important its not just living apart. Well the wealth difference is essential, because it will be a long answer. Fasten your seatbelt. Were here to listen to you and its important question. Well thought most people, think of residential segregation today, as something the Supreme Court, coined the term, they call it de facto segregation. It means something that happened, by accident. It happened because of private prejudice, it happened because of Real Estate Agents who steered people to different places, it happened because of People Choose to live with one another of the same race. And under the constitutional theory, that the Supreme Court has adopted, and most of us believe, and i except for the purposes of this argument. Even though may not be a good constitutional theory. You can only have one sided time. So i accept this decision, and under our current constitutional theory, if something happens through private action, there is no constitutional remedy. And if it happens, by state action federal state and local action, not only is their constitutional remedy, but a constitutional obligation for remedy. So and so this wealth gap that you are talking about, as many of the problems ive alluded to already, a it rose because of state sponsored segregation. And that is this you know my book says its the forgotten history. Its not a hidden history, its a forgotten history. So there are two main aspects of it, and like i say i have to describe both of them and how they interact with each other to answer your question. The first is Public Housing, most of us think of Public Housing, as a place where lowing come, and mostly minority families live, and sometimes highrises. Sometimes vertical slums, low income, unemployed, single parents, thats our image of Public Housing. In fact that is not how Public Housing began in this country. Its a recent development Public Housing began, in the new deal, under the Roosevelt Administration during the depression. For white middle class, lower middle class families, primarily who are homeless during the depression. And who had lost their homes during the depression. Some homes, some projects were for African Americans, a few thats what made the Roosevelt Administration progressive. Other administrations, might have billed only for whites. And not a few projects for African American. So in cities across the country, the segregated projects were built. Skipping ahead a bit, it started the new deal Public Housing program, often segregated neighborhoods, that were never segregated before. And in the earliest early 20th century, there were many integrated neighborhoods. And many metropolitan areas of this countrys both in the north and south workers of all races and ethnicities had to live close enough to each other so they could walk to work. They didnt have automobiles, they didnt have one distance transportation. You had neighborhoods that were integrated at the time. We dont have those anymore today. I talk in the book about like student uses autobiography. You can write a biography to. You have. But about his biography, in which he describes how he grew up in an integrated neighborhood. His best friend was polish he dated a jewish girl in high school, first integrated neighborhood in cleveland. The federal government came and demolish that neighborhood and built segregated Public Housing. Segregated the cleveland neighborhood that never knew segregation before, a separate project for blacks, a separate project for whites. This is getting closer to the answer to your question. This went on after world war ii, the defense house and for workers who migrated to the centers for production, where it was built by the federal government. Many of the cities had no African American populations. They were preserving segregation. In california very few African Americans were living their. The big center of shipbuilding for example, the government segregated those sittings. They were completely segregated in popular areas. In 1949, getting closer, there, president truman was proposing a mass expansion of Public Housing programs. Because there is a massive shortage even then. After world war ii, no materials were permitted to be used during the posing construction, all these houses and veterans returning to the country needing housing. So president truman propose this huge program primarily for white families. I just want to emphasize this point, in the early years of Public Housing, cities had social workers visit the homes of africans, and white families to make sure that their children were well behaved and that they had goodenough furniture to put into the Public Housing. They had to show a marriage certificate to prove that they were not, you know what. Thats what Public Housing was. President trump hinged her proposed this bill, and people that wanted to defeat the Public Housing bill, this was for whites primarily. They wanted to defeat the Public Housing bill because they were opposed any public involvement in the housing market. They thought the private sector should take care of it. Even though they werent. So they want to defeat this, and one way was with a poison pill the poison pill amendment, is put on the bill in hopes that the amendment will pass and then it will make the entire thing palpable. You put it amendment onto trumans housing bill and from now on Public Housing had to be integrated. There is no secret about the fact that Public Housing before that was segregated across the country. But they put on an amendment that it had to be integrated. The idea being that liberal support the integration amendment and conservatives were opposed to Public Housing also supported it. The passed in an entire bill knit integration, then the republicans would abandon the bill the bill would fail. Liberals in congress fought against this, led by hubert humphrey. And a great liberal, they fought against the integration amendment. It was for the 19 49th housing act was passed to continue the policy of segregation that the federal government had followed. That is how we got these giant towers, the Robert Taylor holmes, perhaps the most wellknown, see i am getting closer. This was segregated. It when you think of these towers, theyre for low income black people but there for African Americans, the other tower was for whites. Not de facto. Not because African Americans happen to apply to this one. They were segregated. They were filled this way. After a few years, the white tower, it was vacant. Largely vacant. And the other tower had long waiting lists. Getting closer. So, why is it that after all of these years the white Public Housing had vacancies and black Public Housing had long waiting lists . There is another federal program led by the Housing Administration that subsidize the movement of white families out of central cities into a Single Family homes in the suburbs, that were exclusively white. The federal government guaranteed loans to mass production workers. The most favorites is love it. They couldve never symbol the capital to build 17,000 homes were which they had no buyers. He got loans guaranteed by the federal government on explicit condition, explicit condition, that no homes be sold African Americans. And that every home in the development had to have a clause in the deed that you cannot result African Americans. Now i can get to your question. The entire country was suburban ice in this way. The whites moved out of the cities, the African Americans had to remain in cities and became poor. As well as the same time the whites where there. The country bucking suburban iced. In 1947, when that developments was built. Those homes built for seven or 8000 dollars apiece. Todays money that would be about 100,000 dollars. African americans who are equally capable of paying that money for a house, especially if they had him a mortgage, or a va, no down payment policy. In fact, they paid less in their monthly carrying charges for the houses and they were for their rent in Public Housing. Less to own their home. Today, those homes sold for 300 or 400,000 dollars. Heres your question. The African American families who are prohibited from moving into those homes and rented apartments in the city, did not gain two or 300,000 dollars in equity over the last two generations. Wait families games that equity and today those homes are unaffordable to working class people. 100,000 dollars in 1940, in our terms, was twice the National Median income. Working class family could not for those homes. Today those homes sell for seven times the National Median income. Working class families cant even afford to work to suburbs. So today, nationwide, we have a ratio of income. African American Income is about 60 of white income. Well for African Americans is about 7 less than white what health. Most people gain their wealth through housing. This is an enormous difference between 60 income ratio and 5 wealth ratio. That is almost entirely attributed to unconstitutional federal housing policy that was practice in the 19 thirties forties and fifties. The wealth gap was attributable to segregation. Interesting. It is wonderful how you synthesize this history, where you have African Americans confined to one track of housing and white americans are gifted a another track. Its a way to build well for one group. States states subsidize this opportunity. Not private, this was a state subsidized opportunity. I wonder which African Americans were excluded from, i agree with you in terms of consequences being profound, but it begs the question why . Why was this done . That is a difficult question to answer, thats not what researchers, thats not the papers or the archives. I can speculate. That is something for journalists to speculate. I think there were several reasons, we have to remember that the Roosevelt Administration progressive though was on economic issues, was a still expression of the white anglosaxon ruling class. You are familiar with their example of not able to admit nazi germany immigrants. They think that whites are superior race and it is not surprising. There has been a lot written about how, in many cases, the Roosevelt Administration on willingly or until may compromises with democrats, to excuse African Americans from benefits. Americans were secure that does not apply to housing. Southern democrats were perfectly content to have integrated housing in the north, social securities a national program. So we can exclude African Americans nationwide, some democrats were perfectly willing to have integration in the north as long as they could pervert preserve segregation in the south. There is never a dispute of slavery being prohibited in the north. Basically the north was free to integrate so long as the south could preserve segregation. That doesnt explain this housing issue. The other reason i think is that, maybe thats not a reason to answer, maybe its the problem is different. We have segregated formally every other american way of life. We desegregated buses. The next day they could sit on the bus. We desegregated lunch counters, the next day African Americans could sit down at a lunch counter. We desegregated schools. We disaggregate neighborhoods, what happens . How are we gonna put our heads around what were gonna do. But we have passed a law and ban on segregation. It is very difficult to think about this problem. I think as a result, weve avoided it and come up with this mid to protect us for thinking about it. The myth is that it happened by private action. We call it de facto. Therefore, if it happened by accident, and done by accident, we dont have to worry a

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