Already well aware. Im ed langle, im senior director of programs at the National WorldWar Ii Museum in new orleans and im joined today by two gentleman, the first is paul sparrow, who is director of the Franklin D Roosevelt president ial museum and library in hyde park, new york, following a career as a documentary filmmakers and the seni Senior Executive and paul has been directing the Roosevelt Library and museum since 2015 and hell be talking obviously about fdr and the Manhattan Project. And our second guest is Clifton Truman daniel, who is the eldest grandson of president harry truman. He is also a truman scholar. Hes spent quite a bit of time studying the life and career of his grandfather and he currently serves as honorary chairman of the board of trustees at the harry truman president ial library and museum in independence, missouri. So today will give a great opportunity for question and answers. Please weigh in with lots of questions. Weve already been talking quite a bit off camera about our topic today and i guarantee there is going to be a lot of interesting ideas and discussions. So i will begin and introduce paul to begin us in our program. Thank you. Thank you, ed. And thank you clifton for being part of this today. Im very excited. This is one of the those topics that has generated enormous amount of debate throughout the years. The back ground for franklin roosevelt, of course, is that he was struggling in the late 1930s to convince americans who were very isolationist, that they have to take an interest in the problems going on in europe. And some of the things that he understood about the spread of fascist nazi germany and the threat from japan, Many Americans disagreed with and didnt want to see the American Public get involved. So one of fdrs big issues was rebuilding the military. Hundreds of new ships were constructed, there was a peace time draft instituted and so he was very focused on how america would respond to the threat from nazi germany. So im just going to share a powerpoint here that has a few images in it. That is the king and the queen and the president. And then this is on the left, Albert Einstein on the right. They started drafting this letter to the president to try to convince him in the United States needed to get involved. Now, although leos log was a forld famous physicist, he doesnt have the same status that Albert Einstein did. So the letter was drafted under einsteins name and here is a copy of the letter in which you could see was sent in august of 194 1939. So the war in europe has not started yet. Germany doesnt invade poland until september but this is the lead up to it. And here is an excerpt that may it become possible to set up a nuclear clain reaction in a large vast amount of power and new raidum like elements would be generated. New phenomenon would lead to the construction of bombs and it is conceivable that extremely powerful bombs of a new type may be constructed. A single bomb of this type carried by a boat and exploded in a port might destroy the whole port together with some of the surrounding territory. And then of course just a few weeks later, germany invades poland and we are in the start of world war ii. On october 19th, fdr responds back to professor einstein and he said i found that data of such import that we will thoroughly investigate the possibilities of your suggestion regarding the element ofure anum. Over the next several years, there is different committees that are formed but on june 28th, 1941, the office of scientistic research and development is created which oversees the whole project and a man named dan bush is put in charge and this is the point at which the whole project gained momentum. There is a sense now there is a cohesive coherent objective. They need to develop a bomb and beat the germans to it and then of course a few months later the japanese attack pearl harbor which gives even greater impetuous to the development of this bomb. So the two men who were sort of responsible for the development on the left there, you see Leslie Groves and in charge of the entire operation. And on the right you see the famous scientist robert oppenheimer. Now theyre in los alamos location, but there are 20 different facilities across the country. More than 100,000 people involved in this from extracting uranium and building munitions and recruiting scientists and all done under top secrecy. And meanwhile at the same time, the british had been developing a similar nuclear bomb development which they called the tube alloys and when the germans were bombing, they decides that the british and americans should Work Together and britain shared a lot of their data and their science with the americans and several british scientists came over. But by 1943 this photograph was taken at what is now camp david what fdr called shangrila and cut the british out of the development of the bomb and the Manhattan Project. And this was done for a variety of reasons. But churchill was very upset about this and wanted the british to get back involved in this partnership. And then a few months after this photo was taken in august of 1943, right before the quebec conference, there have been tremendous tensions between the americans and the british regarding the plans for dday. The americans wanted to go ahead and get a date and make dday happen and churchill and the British Military were reluctant, dragging their feet coming up with alternative strategies. So at this meeting in august of 1943 before the quebec conference, roosevelt and churchill are applying a quid pro quo here. Roosevelt saying to championsur well bring you back into the Nuclear Project and that is what happened. Both agreements were signed on the same day before the quebec conference the quebec conference started. In 1944, this was taken at the right after the democratic convention. Its one of the few times the radios very well got together with his at this point Vice President ial candidate. There was very little communication going on. At this point its really one of the fdrs i think failings as a leader, that he did not fully brief truman on the development of the nuclear bombs, his plans for the united nations, a whole range of topics, and this was a critical part. This photograph was taken on april 11th, just the night before fdr died. You can see he is a very sick man here when he died, there was a tremendous sense of loss, as people saw him as a champion and fighter for independence, and against fascist nazi germany. A few months later they had completed development of the first this is the scaffolding for the test of the finity test, in which they were going to test this bomb. Then you see here, this is the explosion in trinity. At this point truman president , and ill turn it over to cliff to talk about the process they were having internal to the truman administration, but there was never any question in the Roosevelt Administration if they were going to use. Bomb. They were going to drop that bomb as soon as it was ready. Thank you, paul. Im going to years ago when i met david roosevelt, fdrs grandson for the first time we were talking about our grandfathers relationship. Before we went upstairs, i said, david, your grandfather didnt tell my grandfather a damned thing, and next morning i said, how are you . And he said, im not going to tell you. My grandfather never spoke to me about the bomb. Thats my fault. I could have asked him, but i didnt. Had i asked him, he would not have told me anything that he had nonwritten or said publicly. He made the decision to use the atomic bomb to shorten the war and save lives, both american and japanese. He did not find out about the atomic bombs until secretary of war stinson told him right after his swearingin on april 12th, 1945, but he only told him the rudements, the bare minimum. We have a new, very powerful new weapon i need to brief you on it. It was almost two weeks later that they gave my grandfather a full briefing on the Manhattan Project. Not long after grandpa formed the interim committee, scientists, leaders in the field, including some of the scientists who had worked on the bomb, including dr. Open open haimer, and i never learned 1 2 this about this from grandpa. I learn about this from school just like everyone else. For me the dropping of the bomb has been much of more of a its what you do afterwards. Its how grandpa felt about it, how we deal with the legacy. As paul said, this continues to be debated people still write books about it, and it goes back and forth. My son wesley this is must have been in 2003 or 04 when my son wesley was 10 years old. He brought home a book from school, and sedako was a real little girl who survived hiroshima, but she was diagnosed with radiationinduced leukemia. She followed a tradition if you fold 1,000 japanese cranes you were granted a wish s she folded 1300 cranes, but sadly she died of leukemia at the age of 12r in 1955. Theres a monument to her and all the children who were killed or sickened or wounded by the beautiful. Bomb. That was the first human story i had ever seen. Everything up to that point had been in my stokesbooks or from my mother talking about my grandfathers decision. This was the first human story. The teacher didnt just give the kids the book, but taught them culture. They had a tea ceremony in class. They folded cranes. I found wesley in the living room room wearing a kimono. So i mention this about every five years japanese journalists on the anniversaries call the Truman Library and ask if they can speak to a family member. Its usually me. I mentioned to a japanese journalist that i had read the story with my son. I got a call from sedakos older brother, and he just said can we meet someday and do something together . I said yes. We net five years later 2010 at the 9 11 tribute center, and masah. Rhythm o was donated one of her cranes. He had a plastic box and removed a tiny crane, and said thats the last juan she folded before she died. At that point he and his father asked if i would go for the memorial ceremonies in hiroshima. I took as my lead for that, i took my grandfather. In 1947, he made a state visit to mexico, and during that visit he placed a wreath at the tomb of six mexican army cadets who had fought to the death against u. S. Forces in 1847. Of course, a reporter asked my grandfather afterwards why would you place a wreath to a monument to our enemies. My grandfather said, because they had courage. Courage does not belong to any one country. You recognize and honor courage wherever you find it. Likewise i thought that suffering in war universally does not belong to any one country. If you recognize it, you acknowledge it. So we went to japan in 2012, my wife polly and my sons wesley and gates and i attended both ceremonies, and in between we spoke to more than two dozen survivors, just to let them tell us their stories. If we have the powerpoint, that is me and masahiro in the peace park at the start, getting ready to go in for the memorial events on august 6th, 2012. The next one, please. Thats our interpreter. You can see behind her the dome, which was the Industrial Production hall in hiroshima, that was nearly directly below the blast and was spared because of its steel and stone construction. It withstood the bomb, and stands as a mem yayale. The first question i was asked in japan, are you here to apologize . My answer to that was, no, i am here to honor the dead and listen to the living, in the hopi hoping that nobody ever on this planet does this again. It came up again, and masahiro jumped ahead of the question, and say if we asked clifton for an apology, he can ask us forren a apology for pearl harbor, and where do we go from there . Then it becomes a blame game. Next slide, please. Im placing the wreaths at the back of an office building. The it used to be the site of the military Police Headquarters where 12 american prisoners of war of were being held. All 12 of them died. They were interned, buried with the japanese victims of hiroshima. A japanese gentleman spent 25, 30 years and a lot of his own money finding out, doing the research to find out exactly what happened to the 12 servicemen. Those families back here in the states did not know. The secrecy around the bombing and the war, destruction records were destroyed. He found out for families, and reported on the fate of every one of those men. Right after we went to japan in august, uji flew to hawaii, and donated that crane to the uss arizona memorial. Next, please. Those are seedlings at the gardens in kansas city. Those are seedlings from trees that survived the bombing, and some of them will be planted at the Truman Library when we reopen hopefully later this year. Next. Thats the japan society. She was one of the maidens, and she came here for reconstructive surgery. And next to her is the woman whose father worked on the shes been dealing with radiation sickness since she was a child. Shes in some respects, and next to her is also a survive of hiroshima. This is speaking to High School Students i did this on and off for four years, again in the interest of peace and disarmament. Thats orville. He was a military marine artillery captain. He brought that sword home. He didnt really want to take it ubs but the quartermaster was telling him to take the swords. Finally after 67 years, through the nagasaki st. Paul, minnesota, sister city, he found the son of the officers who had to surrender the sword. He gave it back to him in a ceremony in st. Paul in 2013 on the lefthand side of the photo is a ward and shrine to his family. It was a wonderful gesture, on both parts. So those are the kinds of things ive been interested in since the bombings. The a ive also held in my hand that also girls crane. The object for me is to honor both. Thank you, clifton. Very moving and powerful presentation. Theres so much to discuss with respect to two of the most important and towering personalities in relation to the Manhattan Project, and the dropping of the bombs and consequences of japan, the United States and the world. We have a number of questions. Im going to start off with a couple of my own. Paul, fdr stood in charge through the first several years of the Manhattan Project. It was his administration that brought it to fruition. One of the most important things that he accomplished was the funding correct me if im wrong, it cost 2 million to bring the project to completion. Thats 2 billion in 1945 money. You can imagine it was by astronomically more now. Can you Say Something about how fdr made that happen . This was something that was concealed from congress. Fdr was a master of the mechanics of government. As he famously said, if it doesnt work, try something else, just make it happen. During this period, prior to the start of the war, prior to pearl harbor, he had been consistently raising military budgets, building up a relationship with both democrats and republicans on capitol hill, both his secretary of navy and secretary of war were republicans that he appointed in 1940. So he had a pretty strong coalition. After pearl harbor, really it was unlimited checkbook. One of the things he was really very astute on was the ability to keep everything compartmentalized. As the Manhattan Project grew, it became this black box project that literally only a handful of people in the administration knew what it was about. I always felt one of the reasons that fdr brought truman on as hi Vice President at that point is truman headed the truman commission, which was investigating expenditures, military expenditures, looking for corruption and profittaking. When he discovered this massive outflow of cash to this Manhattan Project, and he asked about it. He was told to just leave it alone. He did. He didnt make it a focus of his investigation though it was close to 2 billion at the time, it might have been more or less, there were a lot of ancillary projects that fed into it, 50, 60 billion in todays dollars, and it was his effort, because he was so terrified that hitler was going to get the atomic bomb before we did. Actually, during the battle of the bulk, he asked, is the bomb ready . Can we use it in europe to stop this offensive . Theres no question that he was willing to use the bomb. Its an interesting contrast, too, you mentioned that hitler, the contrast between him and fdr, the nazis did pursued an atomic weapons program. Its arguable whether they had made the right decisions, they might have reached a point of achieving that power by the end of the war, but hitler scoffed at his scientists and scoffed at the whole concept. It was not something he was willing to take seriously. Of course, many of the greatest scientists that lived in germany were jewish. They had fled nazi persecution before the war, but hitler was very cynical toward the whole thing. You put by contrast, fdr, took the whole thing seriously from the have i beginning. It was something where his stewardship really did play just a massive role in making it happen, as well as winston churchill. He truly believed in the power of the bias. With hitler, he had his own he refused to fund the navy, but funded submarines. He would fund rockets, things like that, but he essential, you know, early in the war duty the finding for the nuclear program. He didnt like the fact so many jewish scientists were involved in the physics. That was one of his issues. You look at the resource in the death camps and concentration camps, he could have easily funded the weapons research. Of an observation which had been made in a Previous Program we did with saul david about okinawa and the atomic bombs some weeks ago. This is from rob eisenberg. He says, i mentioned this as a prior museum briefing. Im a Museum Docent at the smithsonian. We had a museum guest some years back who had been a japanese pilot during the war. When