Service. They had been raised with the sense that they had a duty and a responsibility to serve the american people, and they both did, in very, very extraordinary ways. And you know, i think john f. Kennedy the inaugural address remains one of the drof greatess of alltime. I have to agree and say fdr in the events of his time as president shaped the nation, shaned that generation in profound ways. President kennedy, even nixon, is only three years older than kennedy and later president bush, Herbert Walker bush, is only six years older than kennedy and world war ii shapes them. So many other kennedy siblings serve in the war, either in the military or in civilian roles, and i think president kennedy would have encouraged us, were he alive today, to always value Public Service and consider Public Service in its many forms as a way to strengthen the nation and make the world better for the people around us. Alan, a great place to end todays conversation. Thank you for joining us. Doing a great job and have a great year. Always look forward to talking and hope to viscid hyde park soon. Thats it for today and hope to see you again in the future. Youre watching American History tv every weekend on cspan3 explore our nations past. Cspan3, created by americas Cable Television companies as a Public Service, and brought to you today by your television provider. Weeknights this month we feature American History tv programs as a preview of whats available every weekend on cspan3. Tonight, a look at programs from the kansas city public library. In kansas city, missouri. We begin with a talk about the life of hole w50d artist mill vent tat trick. Ofo sdutsing lady from the black lago lagoon, watch tonight. Beginning at 8 00 p. M. Eastern. Enjoy American History tv this week and every weekend on cspan3. The president s. Available in paperback, hard cover and ebook from Public Affairs presents biographies of every president inspired by conversations with noted historians about the leadership skills that make for a successful presidency. In this president ial election year, as americans decide who should lead our country, this collection offers perspectives into the lives and events that forged each president s leadership style. To learn more about all of our president s and the books featured historians visit cspan. Org slash thepresident s. Available isnt paperback, hard cover and ebook, wherever books are sold. Next on the presidency, a conversation about portraying Abraham Lincoln at the stage. Fords theater director paul tret trault talkoetreault. Joined by actors david selby and Craig Wallace who played lincoln respectively. Ford theater provided this video. Today we are happy to welcome playwright Richard Herson and david selby and Craig Wallace. All created work that appeared on the ford stage, too many times to count. So were thrilled to have them with us today. Im also, i would like to say weve been watching demonstrations unfold in our neighborhoods and across the nation as we plan for the future of fords theater, we know we have work to do. We commit to using our platforms that tell stories, that speak to the present moment with courage, inspiration, healing and, of course, Abraham Lincoln legacy. Today were talking with Richard Craig and david about a specific play they took part necessary sacrifice ford theater premiered in 2012. Ford commissioned richard to write the play to celebrate the opening of our center for education and leadership in 2011. This play explores the relationship between president Abraham Lincoln played by david selby and the abolitionist frederic doupg lis played by Craig Wallace. It seems particularly important this week to consider the leadership of these two great americans as they helped our country find its way through one of our greatest crises. So i want to start this morning, this afternoon, just by first of all welcoming you all. Thank you so much for being with us from across the country. California and d. C. We go coast to coast here. I want to start with richard. Tell us a bit more about the play, richard, how and why did you put the play together . Okay. Basically its the story of two meetings that happened at the white house during the civil war between Abraham Linken and Frederick Douglass one summer of 19 1 1863 and the next year 1864 gavgly went at it how to basically get the country through this crisis in a way that was best for everybody, and then secondly, when the crisis was over, try to envision what kind of country we wanted, when the war was over, because we couldnt wait until then to start shaping it. So first its about douglas trying to convince lincoln to make the war an abolition and then lincoln realizing they have to face implications of that. What its going to mean in the terms of black citizenship and equal rights. Kind of a push pull between the two of them. Douglas is an outsider, instigator, agitator. Agitating on what he believes needs to lincoln an insider saying harder than you think because of of politics involved and institutions involved. He said the play was commissioned the year that the new center for education and leadership was going to open across the street. Already had done a couple things for the theaters. A couple short things. One destiny. Some of you know. I got an email in fall of 2010 asking if id be interested in writing a play for 2012. The thing you need to realize is that commissions often come with parameters. And there are things the theater wants you to do, when you write the play. Almost like an assignment. So one destiny. Lincoln assassination two hours, two actors, go. I happened to find my assignment for this play in original emails. We would like it to be exploration of leadership, focus on lincoln, three to five characters with a simple set. Like one of the characters to be africanamerican if possible and go into rehearsal in one year. [ laughter ] okay . Specific, but not specific enough. No pressure. It is what it is. The funny thing was, the thing that jumped outs me in that was the fourth thing. Wed like one character to be africanamerican. I didnt want that character to be minor. I didnt want that character to be a servant. Didnt want that character to be one of those multiple roleplaying people playing three to five parts. I wanted that character to be a legitimate, dramatic character in the play. And funny. When i look back at emails, my first email response back was, Frederick Douglass . First one that came to mind. Kind of chewed on that. Kicked it around a while and then bless your heart, sarah, i remember sarah jennings, director of education mentioned a book calmed the radek many and the republican. The radical and the republican by james oaks. Okay . And the subtitle is Frederick DouglassAbraham Lincoln and the triumph of antislavery politics. I got to the part they met the first time and said, thats it. I have characters. I have situation. I have theme. Ip have setting. I thfocus. I have focus. So now its, go. And that well, let me richard, let me turn back a minute and before i do that i want to bring david and craig in to the conversation here. So, david, you have played lincoln in many, many venues all across the country. And you had played lincoln for fords theater previous to this production, and our production commemorated the bisen ten yams the heavens were hung in black another play we commissioned. You played lincoln in numerous places. What made you sort of what drew you to this play . What made you feel like this play was worth your bringing lincoln back to the stage . Well, i think because of the relationship between douglas and lincoln. And how important they were to each other. I just thought that, then when i read the play, and ive had this same reaction in this last, you know, days leading up to now. Going back, reading it again. I still had my script. In my in my folder right here. And i have my notes and my lining and my comments, and you know, everybodys notes or whatever that pertained to especially that pertained to lincoln, but i i just i dont know. It just spoke to me. Paul, it spoke to me in a way th that it just goes back to what richard said. I found that here were two equals. That had ironically, in a certain way, not the same upbringing, but very similar. They were both, you know, not particularly well educated, in a formal education sense. Do douglass with knew was a slave. Lincoln was you know, born and raised a little bit down in kentucky, and then they moved up to illinois, and his life, he was driven sump as douglass and was was driven to i dont know, to do something. They just had an energy and they werent people that, you know they would compromise. But they were, they remembered why they were doing what they were doing. To better make the place, make the world a little better. And if they could do that, thats, that was it, and i just, it just spoke to me in those ways. Terrific. All right. Now, craig, of course, you had a very different, ill say different, very unique journey coming to necessary sacrifices. And im not going to set it up anywhere, but why dont you just tell us a little about your journey and how you got here, and i know it was, it was short and rapid, but ill let you go and tell us. Well, i was in rehearsal for a production of to kill a mockingbird in our first week of rehearsal and i get a call from kristen fox. She says to me, would you be willing to leave that show and come to fords and play Frederick Douglass in our production of necessary sacrifices. Your current frederick douk liss douglass had taken ill and you were about to go to tech. Long store short, arrived thursday, and that next week had an audience. It was exciting and terrifying all at the same time. Yes. But thanks to everybody at fords and david in particular, and richards patience, i got to know the play, learn the play, and ultimately do it, and enjoy doing it. Yeah. Well, craig, i mean you were not only sort of its one thing just to step in and, well, im just going to plop in and fit in the here, but you not only came from afar and dropped in and what a lifesaver for us, but you actually, embodied the character and the role so brilliantly. I mean, you really, by the end of that were all thinking, oh, my god. I mean, could we have ever imagined anyone else doing this play . And watching you and david onstage was really just a treat and a dream, and just a great, a great place to go, and so, you know, whirlwind for you, but thank you. It was already strong going in. They had already built it. I just moved my stuff in. With a, if i remember right, correctly, with a script or a performance or two. James kronzer, i believe, our set designer. Uhhuh. He made me this book, and the script was written in this beautiful book with parchment paper. So it looked like Frederick Douglass was carrying around, you know, this period book when, in fact, it was my script [ laughter ] it all worked. It all worked and really was not only, you know, sort of a beautiful production and i think the audience felt that way, but one that was actually very popular with audiences and people, here we are, what . Eight years after we produced the show, and people still talk about necessary sacrifices. Ip think part of it is that, you know, we know that douglass and lincoln were contemporaries. We know that they were, you know, in the sort of, in washington at the same time, but we dont often think about, oh, they actually interacted. And i think thats one of the things that keeps this play so interesting and intriguing to audiences, but one of the questions i wanted to talk to you, richard, was, you know, one of the things that i think fords has always been so successful at is kind of this intersection of history and theater. And so you talk about the two meetings that Frederick Douglass had with lincoln at the white house. So that is fact that douglass, you know, went to the white house on two occasions,meetings with lincoln. What else do we know about those two meetings . Almost nothing. Which is why its great for a dramatist. Because its wide open at that point. You do have a responsibility to the time and to the people bep say that. All we know, actually, pretty much everything that we know about it, firsthand is from douglass. Because he wrote a couple of letters. He mentioned the first meeting in a speech. Very proud to go out and speak and tell about stories. He was a storyteller. Feeling lincoln and how he felt to go to the wuhite house. He wrote about it extensively in his third autobiography and by that time boosting up his image. Lincoln never wrote an autobiography or spoke about it. All we know what douglass said and contextual things we can find out about policy at the time. So i had just the barest bones that there were these two meetings. They did happen. I did Historical Research to find out about those meetings, but obviously no one was in the room. So you cant know what they said. It wasnt recorded. Thats why i say the intersection is drama. Has to be drama, but you do have a sense of history kind of hanging over back here. Right. Youre not outraging it too much. Its really an interesting box to be in. Right. Historically. Listen, we have a very special treat today that craig and david have agreed to read a scene from the play. And im going to let richard set up the scene and give us a little bit of synopsys. I want to sort of remind our audiences that this is a reading that we gave you know, the script to craig and david, or sort of gave them the excerpt just a couple days ago. And certainly theyre going to read it for us. Richard, will you set up the scene were going to see and then let these guys show us their amazing prowess of two great men. Okay. Setup. So its 1863, summer after the emancipation proclamation and one of the elements, black men accepted into the United States army for the first time and douglass became a passionate recruiter for that. His sons were the first two to sign up in the 54th massachusetts, because he felt this is our moment. Once we get that gold button on our jacket and get that muss t kitt in our hands, fight for the nation they will never be able to deny equality and even though getting half the pay of whites and never become officers, at least we have a chance and was a very successful recruiter and then they went off to fight. Soon as went off to fight and the in battles south issued orders any black troops captured either shot or sent into slavery. Absolutely brutal. Not to be treated like regular prisoners. The word from lincoln was silence. That did it for douglass. He was now, Everything Else is problematic. I am not signing up another man to go fight for this unless i get support, backup from the white house. He went to washington. And he got into see secretary stanton. Pumped it to him. Stanton, didnt exactly blow him off, offered commission in the army to go recruit, essentially saying, be quiet. Since he was right next door, he went to the white house, unannounced, to take it up with lincoln and sent up his card, lincoln brought him in and just before the scene in his motion folksy humorous of prairie politician way, lincoln is kind of, talked douglass down, so he thinks. About the pay promotions. Lincolns thinking, great. Go back and recruit black troops, all going to thanks for stopping by, and then this all right, gentlemen. Well i will be grateful to have you recruiting. Its good to talk with you, mr. Douglass. Theres something else. Go on. Suppose i put on that uniform with those eagles shining on every button. Go to the Mississippi Valley and suppose in the course of those efforts i should be captured by the rebels. You know what Jefferson Davis has decreed. Yeah. One moment. A negro captured while fighting for the union is a dead man. At the very least, sold into slavery, no matter his rank, whether a freed man or runaway. I know. What youre driving at. Douglass. And you wrong me. You pay them double, make every colored soldier a general, but if they have no protection protection . Youre talking about retaliation. Killing seven prisoners, answering murder with murder. Is the alternative is answering murder with silence. Oh not so fast. Pay and promotion is fine. I dont like it, but i understand. But those black men who joined your army are my responsibility. And when they fought like heroes at fort hudson, add militants bend tied up and shot or stabbed or beaten to death and nothing not a word came from the president of the United States you dont want protection. You want retaliation. You want revenge. I want justice its not justice to kill a man for something he didnt do. Only because the prisoners youd have to shoot might be rebels, but they are white. Isnt that it . Well, that is surely what the country will say. We knew lincoln would get to this. Now white men are to be killed. Are to be killed by niggers. Nevertheless, i have ordered it. Against every bit of black better judgment. When . Ten days ago. For every soldier the United States killed in violation of the laws of war, a rebel soldier should be exkated. And for every one enslaved by the enemy, a rebel soldier shall be placed in hard labor until the others shall be released. I didnt know. More killing will lead to less, i dont know. But the army seems to agree with you. Can you guarantee that this policy will be carried out . Why do you doubt it . Because excellency with all due respect you have a penchant for pra chiz. For compromise. Never mind. I know what you think of me. You serm filled your newspaper full of it for all to read. Most sad and disheartsing feature of our present military situation is not the varieties disasters experienced by our armies and navies but the tarny hesitating vacillating policy of the president of the United States that is not precisely what i meant. Oh yeah. Looks damn precise to me. And, here. An administration without a policy is an administration without brains. Since while a thing is to be done, it implies