Because he is older than i. And he says it is true. My grandfather had 500 invested in the stock market. And of course he lost it. This is when people were jumping out the window and so forth. And my grandparents were teachers. I think he taught languages and music. I dont know what my grandmother taught. But they moved from virginia to philadelphia. And that started the family, split the family, because my grandparents could get a job. They said they didnt hire black teachers in philly. They had black children going to integrated schools, but no black teachers. So, my grandmother took in washing an washing, and my grandfather refused to do that type work. And the family actually split. They were together physically but not together. The older kids went to college in the family, and they were teachers. The two oldest ones. The youngest kid was sent to school by the middle children who are did not go to children. They had to work to help pay. So, here we go about the color line thing. I was born in d. C. My mother was born in virginia. My dad was born in maryland. And when i was three oh, my parents divorced when i was a baby. And my dad took the boy. My mother took the girl. And remarried, moved to San Francisco. So, from the age of three on, i grew up in San Francisco. Then she remarried again and moved to san diego. And i ended up at Virginia Union, which one of my great great grandparents was on the board at virginia seminary. And it was great to know that my great great grandparent had helped to start the school. Right, right. So, if we talk a little bit more about your childhood growing up on the west coast before you went to experience virginia, what were the sort of racial dynamics of life in both southern and also Northern California . Okay. Growing up in San Francisco, i lived in what is now called the west end. It was called fillmore back in those days. You know, and i tried to think. Was it full of black people . I think as a child, you probably dont even know. And i guess thats where the black people lived. Then we moved to the presidio. And school was all white. I was the only black child. Every day i would pray i hope a nun doesnt slap me this morning. She would walk down and slap me. I would pray to god, god, ive done something wrong, please help me. I didnt know what i had done wrong. Never did. And i used to get fs. All my papers were fs. And i was in the second grade or third grade. And my mother said, you need to bring your papers home. And i started crying. She said, whats wrong . I said, mom, im dumb. I get all fs. Shes said, thats okay, bring them home anyway. She collected these many papers, about an inch, said why are these marked wrong . I didnt know i was bright. And the nun started crying. And mom said, go outside and play. I said, mom, im not allowed to play. I have to go to church during recess and lunch. And my mother says, i think you better go outside. I dont know what she said to the nun, but after that, the smartest guy a smartest girl and class and i were vying for grades. And she stopped slapping me. So, i went to a Public School first called presidio. A little boy said he couldnt hold my hand. I knew it was something bad because he couldnt hold my hand. That was probably the first time you had heard that term. Yeah, yeah. That was my experience there. I had heard of other experiences. I remember we owned the mom and pops grocery store, which is typical in San Francisco. You know, they have safeway. But generally you have little stores. And a man came in, and my parents never talked in front of me, but i heard them whispering that hes a teacher but he can only subcistitute because he haa dishonorable discharge because he jumped off a ship refusing to fight saying why should he fight for america freeing other countries when hes not free here. I remember them saying that. And then i remember my mother trying to get a job. And they told her you join the union first, and you can get the job. The union says get the job first and vice versa. This went on. And i remember my mother crying. But not in front of us. But i do remember. So, little things, subtle things, you know. Right. You know, santa monica had a big rope across their beach. Yeah. Yeah. Unofficially. Right. But its there. Right. Yeah. Teaching jobs. Only teach in the black area. You know, i mean, it was there. Its still there. So, when had your parents at all prepared you for what it would be like as you got ready to go across the country . Heck no. Nobody could prepare you. Do you know the first thing i did when i got in town . I sat down at the soda fountain. I said, gee, i want a banana split. Ill never forget this. One strawberry and one vanilla. If you dont have black walnut, please put another strawberry, no chocolate, and strawberry syrup on top and whip cream. The lady came back and said, we cant serve you. I said, oh, are you out . She says, no. I said, oh i remember saying, oh oh. I said, oh, three times. It shocked me. I couldnt get a banana split because im black sitting at the counter. I wasnt thinking. I knew you couldnt, but i wasnt thinking. I just sat down. Had you had experiences like that in california . They are overt, not covert. Well, i had been asked, when i went to high school, my cousin was filipino. She says please come with me to the picnic. I said im not filipino. You are. She says come with me, so i went, and i took my date. When we got to the place outside of San Francisco, the guy sat on the gate. I have to let you are. Are you sure you want to come . So, i have that type thing or places in you people can come in, do you think youre going to be happy . Interesting. Kind of coded. Yeah. Or presented in a different way. Right, right. May i ask why you decided to go to a black traditionally black yeah, my mother thought it would be good for me, yeah. But, you know, i think a black i think i should have gone to howard dont get me wrong. Virginia union was great. But i should have been in the city because it was too much learning at one time being in the south and the mentality. So, what was that like . You talked about the ice cream parlor, but what was the indoctrination like . Well, i didnt like anybody, the black people and the white people. It was first of all, i was young, and i thought i knew everything and i didnt. I didnt know anything. This is what year . In the 50s. 59, around then. But as a young person, youre very ignorant, but you dont know it. And i i thought i knew everything. And when i went there, i couldnt understand why the white people treated the blacks the way they were treated and why the blacks allowed it. I even got angry with some of the black people for not sitting in, the kids. And i didnt understand. I do now. If they had sat in, they wouldnt have had dinner on the table that night because their parents would have been fired. I had no idea, you know . So, what was Virginia Union like in terms of a consciousness, a black consciousness . Or even were the teachers that were talking about these issues . Yeah, i you know, i believe people it was a way of life, and they knew how to live within the system. Im not saying it was comfortable for them, but i think they had a black society, which was a way of living, you know . I remember dr. Johnson, who was my favorite instructor there, bob johnson. He had two phds, i think. I think he got his first when he was 18. Im not sure. Very bright man. He used to play in a quartet. I dont know what he played, violin or something. He said, one night he was driving home he used to tell jokes in class. He had this white woman in the car, and then he thought, oh, my god, im going to be killed. He was always saying things like that. I dont know. I dont remember. Im so old i dont remember. So, im going to be asking questions about this. Sort of curious what prefigured those, what kind of conversations you may have been having among yourselves as students. We were having meetings. As you know tony whats his name . Tony pinkett, i think were the leaders, and we were always having meetings. Can you remember what some of those meetings were like . No, i cant, no. Im telling you, being old is a son of a gun. I thought the world was going to change though. I was so naive. Gosh. The policemen was very nice to me. I remember when we were arrested, he held my hand and helped me up into the paddy gough won. My aunt called me, she said, i seen you on the news. You were being helped into the paddy wagon. You mentioned there were sol students who didnt participate, you were angry. I was angry with them. I felt they lived in virginia, they should. I met a woman at the 50 year reyr reunion well, they were at the sitin, so, i knew her. They needed pictures. I havent seen these people in 50 years. We were sitting at the table and tears were coming down her eyes. I felt like crying too, but i dont cry in front of people. She said her father was fired, she had to move out of state, she had to had to drop out of college. Thats how naive i was. I wanted all of them to be there. But i didnt live in virginia. My parents were in california. So, you talk about thinking youre going to change the world. What did you want to change . Well, i thought i know that were not all going to be hunkydory, but i thought its going to be integration now. Its not going to the first thing i remember when we got arrested, we went to a courthouse. I mean im sorry, went to jail. They put us in this cell, all of us. And it was smelly. I thought not even a clean cell can you go in. And then in the court, the court was segregated. I felt like, am i in hell . What has happened . Even the courts are segregated . And then i remember a black man came in, and he was a drunkard, and you could smell him. And i thought, why do the drudges have to come in . Im thinking, just, its going downhill fast. And i thought am i losing my mind . Horrible. Yeah. But i just thought, okay, now that weve sat in, were going to have these attorneys and were going to go to court and everything is going to be right and its not going to be any longer. But you can change laws, but you cant change people wh. It comes about through your doing individually. And thats what kind of process is that do you think . What do you think . You know, i think the young kids today, many of them didnt grow up during that era, thank god. And many of them, if you get angry with anyone, its angry not because of of a persons color. Its for some other reason. And i think thats great. Many of the kids are that way today, yeah. I mean, you still have youre going to always have an upper dog and a lower dog. How long were you in college before it started . I dont remember. Youre asking me difficult questions. This is just the preexam. Im sorry. Really i dont remember. In fact, i was surprised that it was so important. Well, this would have been so the Virginia Union students was about three weeks after the one in greensboro, north carolina, nebraska 1st. So, it would have been one of the early ones. Do you know if you were aware of other sitins . Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why did this come up as a strategy . I dont honest to pete, i really dont remember. Yeah. But you were aware. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely. How about the notion of nonviolence and how you were going to comport yourselves in what could potentially be dangerous . Yeah, i was going to be a nonviolent person. Im not a violent person anyway, just my mouth unfortunately. Yeah. I thought its not fair to have people hit you and you cant really protect yourself. Its really not fair. I think had i been a man, i probably would have been angry and retaliated. I dont know that. But maybe. Yeah. And were there no, no, no, no, no. Did you run into trouble at sitins . The dogs and things acti, bu was fine. It was fine. When i say it was fine, our sitins were calm compared to other sitins in other states. What actually happened . We went downtown for several days. We went to tall himers Department Store and sat down i didnt sit down. I was standing. Being so tall, they pointed me out, really and truly because i stand out. And i had on high heel shoes too, so that made me over 6 feet tall. And they just wouldnt serve us. I mean, it was relatively calm compared to what ive seen on the news and talked with other people. How many students were involved . 34. And you were you arrested right away or did it take we walked. The first time we werent. The second time we were. We talked from school to downtown. It was i hate to say this a jovial mood. A lot of kids walking together. I guess were all going to change the world. I dont know how they felt. But thats the attitude that i had and the feeling that i got. Right, right. Were there songs being sung or anything like that . Yeah, yeah. Dont ask me the names though. Not only that, i had to learn black culture. Not that i you know, hi i hao learn the black songs. Growing up a catholic which im no longer. Growing up a catholic, you dont know those songs. I had never heard the black National Anthem in my life. A lot of things i had to learn. Adam powell was a big man. He and my uncle worked together too. And he came to town to talk. And i went to one of his meetings, civil rights meetings. And in the church, the people clapped and they banged their feet like this and it scared me because i had i dont want this on the thing. I had never been in a whole group of black people. And can you imagine im black and im scared . I mean, that doesnt make good sense, you know this. But you had never experienced this before. No, no. So, you said earlier that when you first got to virginia and theres a sort of not the black people not liking the white people. Did this change for you as it went on . Yeah, i got a better understanding of what was happening, you know . The black people had to live there and the white people were only going along with the status quo. And i yeah, i knew i was getting the hell out of there. As soon as you could. Yeah, as soon as i could. Yeah. Why was that . Because i didnt like virginia. And i shouldnt say that on camera because virginia has many fine qualities. I have to put that in there. I was too immature to really appreciate what was happening. I was too immature, yeah. Did you ever experience other parts of the south and the deep south . No, no. That was enough. That was . Yeah, yeah. Im jumping around a little bit, but i want to follow this question. When you finished virginia, you graduated. And then where did you go from there . Schoolwise or citiwise . You just said you wanted to get the hell out. I went to d. C. My dad lived in d. C. I had a little boyfriend well, young man, boyfriend. My mom kept saying come back to california. I said when i go back, im not going back to san diego. Its too country. San diego was flat. I said im going home to San Francisco. She says, claudette, please come back. She says, ill tell you what, ill pay your way back and if you dont like it, you can go back to d. C. Or San Francisco. Well, i came back and started partying. Im a kid. Im partying. Then i got a job, so i was stuck there for two years, another city i didnt like. Then i moved to. Wi l. A. Because im partying in l. A. I had friends there. This is summertime. I love dancing. I thought ill dance all summer, go to all these parties, then go up to San Francisco and get a job. I never did because i waited too late. Go i got stuck in l. A. And thats where you stayed. Yep. What did you end up doing for work . My last job was assembly build 922 which is an expulsion counselor for the School District. Did you work for the schools most of your career . Yeah, well, i taught people working for masters. You know i have a doctorate in human behavior. So, i taught graduate students career psychology at cal lutheran and st. Marys. That was nighttime at ucaa and san diego. Back to california. Yeah, my master at usc. Im a california person. Yeah. Yeah. So, what i do want to ask more details about the sitins, but lets stay in california. Okay. What did that experience that you went through there both as a student and just experiencing that side of jim crow that was kind of different from maybe you were raised . And then going through the sitins there and off that and coming back, what did you take away from that . What did you bring back to california from that experience . That the wheels of justice turn slowly, really and truly, its slowly. You know, and i often thought would i do it again . Yeah, i would do it again. I would do it again, yeah. It did hurt me, jobwise. I went for a job in d. C. , and the guy said, i have to hire you, but because you made a high score on the exam, but i dont think you would be happy here. He says, i see youve been involved in civil rights because i always put down that i have an arrest record. And then for lausd, i took the written exam. I took the exam ten times, never flunked the written. They flunked me on the training experience. So, i was working for the County School district before i came to lausd. I asked him, he liked me a person, i said, can you find out why they wont hire me in l. A. He did, he said you have an arrest record for sitins and they think youre going to be a problem. I finally got in because some mistakenly sent me a contract. I think it was a guardian angle. I really do. I think it was someone saw what was happening. Im just guessing, maybe a black secretary and sent the paper out. So, its there. You want to talk more about the sitins and i guess i dont talk a lot about it because i think in my i think ive suppressed that. It was uncomfortable. Very unkmcomfortable. And it hurts to this day. What is about it . Because it it hurts because many peoples attitude have not changed, you know, on both sides. And also, when i see these black kids not going to school, it hurts me to my heart. Not voting. Dont they realize they need an education. They have to vote. And many of them are not doing it, and i want to cry. I really want to cry. And you told me before we started that thinking back to these times made you feel very emotional. I was wondering what exactly you were thinking about. Yeah, the whole thing in life, the way the situation is today. And also with obama being president , many feelings have come to surface. Many of what other people have come to surface in a negative fashion, and i dont like that. You know, the screaming out during sessions, calling him names, comparing him thoo hitle and so forth. And i do know you always need a top dog. I understand that. And it will be. If we get rid of race, itll be size, height. Itll be something, color of eyes. When my brother came back from switzerland he was the man behind kissinger and the geneva conference. He came back, and he says, claudette, you know, he says, this stuff is b. S. I said what . He says, the racial stuff. He says, we have World Problems. He was real