Been a little change since could derbies day. Number one spokesman malcolm x said the only important changes have been brought about not by whites and not by integration, but by elijah muhammad. The question is, i was mohammed colbert helping the gross. The girls dont know the truth. If i dont eagle getting drunk, he doesnt know the truth. It is no the true, fun in your lying and cheating he doesnt know the truth. Hes usually imitating the white man, the girls get drunk because i see white men getting. John they Smoke Cigarettes because i see white men spoken cigarettes. When they turn on the television all the seas a white man with fornication and adultery. So they want to be the like the white man. Mohammed teaches black people the glory blocks. Instead of he tries to display high moral equality rather than low moral quality. Steer by some whites that the blocks advocate violence. Thats not exactly the case. They say they dont believe in starting a fight but of white men mistreating they wont turn the other cheek. A brand of militancy has forced other niagara leaders to become more aggressive. Seen plights red of increasing muslim power that makes some whites moderate with. So theyre making a drive for. Hogg is six mark the 75th anniversary of the bombing atomic bombing of near hiroshima in japan. United states dropped a third atomic bomb on nagasaki three days. Later the emperor marked the Unconditional Surrender on august 15th, 1945 with the formal surrender ceremony taking place on september seconds on the uss missouri and world war ii. See spans washington journal were live the strategic situation, president Harry Trumans decision to use the new mission and a legacy of those atomic attacks. Next, you will hear from in toll, author of twilight of the gods, more in the western pacific, 1944, 1945. He has followed in about an hour by president trumans grandson, Clifton Truman daniels. A short time ago, an american airplane dropped one bomb on hiroshima and destroyed its usefulness to the area. That bomb has more power than 20,000 tons of tnt. The japanese began the war at pearl harbor. They have been repaid many fold. And the end is not yet. With this bomb, we have now added a new and revolutionary inquiries and destruction to supplement the growing power of our armed forces. In their present form, these balms are now in production and even more powerful bombs are in development. It is an atomic bomb. It is a harnessing of the basic power of the universe. The force from which the sun draws its power has been left lose by those who brought war to the far east. We are now preparing to destroy more rapidly and completely every preventative enterprise the japanese have in any city. We shall destroy their guns, their factories and their communications. Let there be no mistake, we shall completely destroy japans power to make war. It will spare the japanese people from utter destruction that the ultimatum of july the 26th was issued. Their leaders promptly rejected that ultimatum. If they do not now accept our terms, they may expect a reign of glory from the air, the like of which has never been seen on this earth. Behind this arrow tank will follow sea and land forces in such numbers at a power as they have not yet seen, and with the fighting skill of which where they are already aware. Ian toll is an author an independent scholar of pacific war historian, and is set to release his latest publication, book, twilight of the gods, war in the western pacific, 1944 to 1944. Ian toll welcome to washington journal on this 75th anniversary. Thank you, glad to be here. We heard from the president harry truman after the hiroshima bombing. From your research and study of the war and the bombings in particular, why did harry truman do it . Well, i think decision to use the bomb was really implicit in the Manhattan Project. So, it was really assumed from the time before the time that truman came to office in april, after the death of fdr, that this weapon, if it worked, that it would be used. So it may be more accurate to say that there was a nondecision, essentially. German did not decide to intervene to stop a project that was very much in train when he came into office. The assumption had been made that if we build the bomb, we have the bomb, we would used to bomb in order to bring the war to an end. And i think the perspective we have now that the atomic bomb is different, essentially different from conventional weapons, that is something we have with hindsight. For truman and his advisers in the summer of 1945, i dont think that was clear to them that the atomic bomb was fundamentally different from conventional bombings. And we had already, essentially, wiped out an enormous percentage of japans urban areas with conventional bombing and incendiary rates. So using the atomic bomb, in their view at that time, did not seem like a break or departure from what they were already doing. Its really with hindsight that we understand that weapon to be something basically different . Is it true that when harry truman assumed the presidency on april 12th of 1945, harry truman did not know anything about the Manhattan Project and, to, how did he learn about it in the space of less than four short months . How did he become confident is in his decision to use this weapon . Yes, it is true that he was not briefed on the Manhattan Project. He had been vaguely aware that there was a very large, very secret, very expensive project underway. In the senate before he was put on the ticket as fdrs Vice President ial candidate in 1944, the most important thing he had done in the senate, the thing that really made his name was that he chaired a committee that investigated corruption and waste in the munitions industry. This is called the truman committee, in his capacity as chairman of that investigative senate committee, he had learned about these enormous plants that were being built in tennessee and in washington state. And he had inquired and begun to use his investigative resources to try and determine what was happening there. And secretary stimson, Harry Simpson was a secretary of war, he went to german and said were doing something very important and it is very secret and were going to ask you not to inquire any further. And truman agreed. We when he was elevated to the president , he was briefed and truman appointed secretary of state we, by the state of the Manhattan Project. Were talking about it with the end, tall whose brand new book is coming out and september, twilight of the got, war in the western pacific, 1944 to 1945. The lines, as they were last hour, for the eastern and central time zones 2027488000. Mountain pacific, 2027488001. For those who are bets or family, 2027488002. And for japanese americans, 2027488003. One of the questions that came up was a demonstration of the bomb to show the power instead of using it on a city . Thats a hard question. In my view is should we have not we have used the bomb, given the circumstances in the summer of 1945, the urgent need, but in those circumstances, the bomb was defensible. Dropping it on a city is a different question. I think i am in a minority among military historians in this feeling, a preference i have, that i wouldve liked to see a use against a military target. The question of a demonstration has been raised. Theres arguments against a demonstration. Number one, and might have backfired. If you had announced that were going to demonstrate the bomb and it had not worked, which was a possibility, that would double japanese determination to resist. I do think there would be a way to demonstrate the bomb without running into that problem, dropping it very high in the atmosphere, off the coast of tokyo, off the tokyo bay for. That wouldve made enormous flash, it wouldve sent a message to the japanese. I dont think that wouldve prompted a rapid surrender. So, the reason that you might have done that is abstract, its an abstract reason. You do that because, in the long run, it may enhance the countrys moral standing. I do think that is important, but you have some callers who are fathers and grandfathers who are in the war, for american veterans, and those who wouldve participated and the innovation of japan, the atomic bomb has never been an abstraction to them, its something real, and something they believe saved their lives. That belief is something that i think we need to acknowledge and respect, so that is where i come out. Looking, back i would like to see the bomb used differently. And particular, not dropped on a city. The first one drop in a military target. I think that it would have been more defensible. Was there any military or military related targets and either of those cities . Yes. Hiroshima had a very important Regional Military headquarters. The second army was headquartered in hiroshima. Hiroshima had been an army town, really going back to the preinvasion days of the samurai. So there was an important military target and the city was not chosen for that reason. However, none of the four cities, thats hiroshima, nagasaki, on the sea of japan and on the very northern tip. The cities had not been chosen because of their military character, and the military installations that were in those cities were not specified as the aiming points for the bombs. The cities were chosen because they had been relatively unscathed and conventional bombing raids, and the idea was that you wanted to drop the bomb on a city that had the topography and the conditions that would provide the greatest demonstration to the bombs power. It is true that there was an important army base in hiroshima. The clip that you played by president truman, upon announcing the first atomic bomb, he said we had an important army base. Well, hiroshima was a large city, it was a seventh largest city in japan with a base in it. So, i think from the point of view of looking back, with 75 years of perspective, in that situation, you would prefer the president look into the i have the camera and tell the world exactly what we have done without mincing words, without using that kind of circumlocution. Before we get to calls, was there a third bomb ready to be dropped in case the japanese did not surrender . The third bomb wouldve become available by the end of august. On august 6th, we hit nagasaki we, did not have a third bomb at that point. It wouldve been another two or three weeks. In tall is our guest. Your calls are next. First up is charles in richmond, virginia. Good morning. Its very interesting when you hear of those defections. Im wondering about why they drop the bomb because america was so passionate against japan. Japan had pulled a sneak attack on pearl harbor, we didnt even know that the war was going to start, and japan did not do that. What happened when the bomb became available, all you knew was that you had just become president , they did not really like him. They put it to him and said, look, you had this bomb. To me, it was already you cant drop an atomic bomb and say, well, lets drop it tomorrow. Lets drop it next week. They had already planned, and everything was planned. It really did not make too much difference with truman, because the United States is going to drop that bomb. Charles, ian told, you think the president had a . Say absolutely. The constitution confers armies powers, and virtually Unlimited Power as commander and chief at wartime. So truman had the power to simply tell his cabinet and his military leaders to not use the bomb in the following way we. I do think its true that the motive of revenge was in the mix there. I would not say that is the reason we use the weapon the way we did, but it certainly did set the context, the sneak attack on pearl harbor, japanese atrocities against civilians, the treatment of prisoners of war. These were all factors that played into the decision to use the atomic bomb and also to burned down japanese cities with incendiary bombing raids. Truman certainly did have decided, he wouldnt have asked to ask for permission or his cabinet take a vote on the question. He couldve said we need to hit a city, or we are going to explicitly warned the japanese that we have this 11. In the private diary on july 25th, its a very strange injury where he says, actually, ive instructed secretary simpson to use this weapon against military targets and not against women and children. And i have also instructed him to, that will make an explicit warning to the japanese telling them to surrender. Thats on, because he did not give that order. In his irony, he seems to have believed it or, perhaps he wanted to have future historians believe that the whole decision had been made differently. Certainly, he had the power. One of the fascinating questions as if fdr had lived, how would have fdr decided to use the bomb . He wouldnt have been at all he wouldnt have hesitated at all to make his own decisions. He was accustomed to doing. That lets hear from anthony and north creek, new york. On our line for world war ii veterans and families. Good morning. Im calling for my family and its two brothers. My father went in the army in february of 41. He fought in the philippines, he fought a niijima and it was also in okinawa. He was also in the occupation in japan. He came time in 1946, and we never found out he never talked about the war until he got older and it was against them dropping the bomb. If we were to have a fight, i probably wouldve never come home. It was a flip of the coin, and in my opinion, i would say yes, one was in normandy, a paratrooper, and my other uncle was a medic. So those people from that generation, they fought hard for our country. When i talk about my father and his brothers, im very proud of them because thats something we would not be able to do. The map on your book, or the operation olympic, part of the planned evasion of japan, is that figure anticipated 1 million u. S. Casualties fairly accurate in terms of across the board . From your research as well . Well, no. The question is, at the time that we were planning operation downfall, operation Olympic Games the first stage. That was the invasion of the Southern Island of japan. At the time that our leaders were planning that operation, there was never a point in which they were projecting casualties on the order of 1 million. There have been quite of work doing on this, by historians and researchers because of how often you hear that kind of figure, we might have lost 1 million or half 1 million. The answer seems to be that the casualty projections were significantly lower than that. And that is a disputed point, and different casualty figures, different ways of thinking about it but at no point did our military leaders, at no point they expect something on the order of 1 million casualties. The projections were much lower, maybe as many as 200 total casualties. That doesnt really tell us much about the atomic bomb decision. You cant say, well, casualties wouldve been lower so we shouldve invaded. I think invading wouldve been a disaster, regardless of what kind of casualties we wouldve taken. So avoiding a bloody invasion of japan was essential. And that is why using the atomic bomb was inevitable. As i say, using it against a city is a different question. I dont think we should have used it. Thats just my belief. But as the caller mentioned, there are so many people in this country that have fathers, grandfathers, great grandfathers, and uncles who were veterans of that war and who believed that their lives are on the line. And that is something that i respect very deeply. Its interesting that the caller said that, i think it was his father, he said had been in japan with the occupation after the war and that his personal belief was that we should not have dropped the bomb. One of the interesting phenomenon when you look at veterans in the war is that those who were in japan after the war with the occupying forces, they tended to have a much more nuanced view of the japanese. In fact, many came to like the japanese as a people. They were more ready to make the distinction between the way Japanese Fighting forces had behaved during the war, and the way the japanese people are in general. They were more willing to make that distinction because of the personal exposure they had had to japan and the japanese in the nation of japan after the war. Airline for japanese americans is 2027488003. On that line, scott. Good morning. I am half japanese. My father was drafted in world war ii. My grandfather was drafted by the Japanese Army and fought and manchuria. I keep seeing every year, you talk about pearl harbor that america was attacked unprovoked, which is not true. Like truman said, on that clip that was shown and like charles said in the call that japan bombed pearl harbor unprovoked, thats not true. The flying tigers were flying under the secret order of the president , and until 1996, when i think it was reagan or clinton acknowledged that the flying tigers were part of the military to get the va benefit, then it showed that they were under military payment for the company. So i keep hearing of this japanese unprovoked attack when that is not true. Im not saying that the war was not a bad thing, because it was a terrible thing of what japan did to china, parts of russia, the philippines, to the americans and people who actually ended up fighting with them. There were terrible things that happened. Okay, scott will get a response. Yes. I think the count for the japanese with how they began the war, not so much that it was unprovoked attack, yes it was said it was unprovoked, but that there was no formal declaration of war prior to the attack. So it was the idea of a sneak attack, a surprise attack that really infuriated americans. You know, the attack had been planned. We were engaged in negotiations with the japanese government to try to adjust the differences that we had, and that attack suddenly descended on pearl harbor without a declaration of war. So that played into the particular brutality of the pacific war. Scott did not say what his father did when he was drafted, but one of the, i think, the most interesting stories about the pacific war and little heard is the role of japanese americans who worked as interpreters, who worked as language officers, who helped deliver propaganda messages to the japanese. And it was an essential role in places like okinawa. The heroism of the japanese american soldiers who down to the caves and negotiated directly with japanese forces, trying to encourage them to surrender at enormous personal risk. That is one of the Great Stories about the pacific war that is not as familiar to people. To jean in buoy, maryland. On our line for vets and families. Good morning. I was 12 years only we declared war on the japanese. I was the