She died in 18 talks about the struggles she faced and running for president and she discusses the 1982 president ial election. How do you explain this incredible president ial year . I think i can explain it in terms of the fact that weve sort of gotten to a point in American History now where the American People feel a kind of alienation and cynicism from traditional politics as we have known it, when we are addressing the selection of a person as head of state for years also known as president , the democrats feel that the democrats and republicans are all part of the same traditional package, that there needs to be change in america and that if the change doesnt emanate from the programs and the agenda or the plants of either one of the two parties americans have gotten to the point where they are willing to make that change outside of the regular two party structure. But how do you think we got to that point . I ask you because youve been involved in politics for a long time in clean your own run for president that will talk about later. So what is it that got us to this point . How did the parties get disconnected from the people . I think theres a combination of factors. First of all, the parties havent been able was to be patronage dispensers, particularly on the state and local levels, particularly on those levels. The offices pertaining to the partisan offices are no longer across the nation. It seems to me that people became very disinterested as result of the series of punitive expenses in this country, that turned them off. Kareen gate, as tech, watergate and the fantastic national scandals that came, about the snl situation and the situation pertaining the iran people are really frustrated and weve got to the point where theyre really not holding on to holding two persons this is fairly in either of the two parties. Theyre saying enough is enough. We at this point in the year 1982, were going to do something to really brink about chase cars were fed up. I traveled around, the rural communities, we find people saying the same think over and over again, a different terms. Were fed up, dont ask me about issues. We want someone to bring about change, thats the most important word that you hear now constantly. Everybody is talking about change. Do you think that thats your explanation for the its part of it, they see him as a man who isnt doing any error and who has kept very close to his overall agenda but all the know is that from the little bit that they have heard, is that he has been a man of action. He doesnt talk a whole lot, he gets things done, hes an activist. And the American People are becoming sick and tired of the same political rhetoric every four years from both parties, that nothing really changes. So they are our going to follow him if they have to because they know that their quality of life has deteriorated so badly that it couldnt possibly be any worse in responding to his their needs than any of the two parties. Its a strange phenomena. You grew up in the Democratic Party, do you think that it will survive the cycle . Oh the democratic sir party will survive, im quite sure it will survive. I also sense a growing, growing disenchantment if the party is to the extent of establishment of a third party not based on race however but based on class. And you go to farm communities its amazing to hear the farmers tell you its time for a third party, you know the farmers they have been loyal to the Republican Party, or to the Democratic Party. These are not the people who usually go off in other directions and say try that, try this you can think of firm country to be of a radical nature if thats the term that you just use. But people are being fed up and thats all over the country so we have a third party involved i think in the next six to eight years just a little bit surprised. Are americans ideological do you think . Or do you think they want things to get done . I dont think that americans are basically ideological, i really believe that they want to get things done. They have seen their tax paying dollars being utilized for all kinds of foreign aid programs, and all that. They have been waiting on the peace dividend because its been promised to them that when the war in the gulf is over that we would use the money now to rebuild our towns and cities and villages, and the test been nothing but rhetoric. So now they are willing to say we would like to get a change. Can you mention people get into a point where they dont know what the candidate stands for. Whats his agenda . And every educator ive met, black or white, theyve said to me straight i dont care what mr. Says im not interested, hes a man of action. I thought thats very dangerous if people in this country get to the point that theyre not really interested in what the gentleman or the candidates agenda is because theyre fed up. Lets go back. Here we are the 20th and adversary of your own race for president in 1972. See what thinking did you had when you announced for president . And how was it received . Well in the first place, might now segment for president was made on the basis of two states in the union. The people told me, mrs. Shirley chisolm we have to have some change in government. The time has come, we need to move in the direction of hoping that some day, some way, somehow, a black man or a woman can be president. A black person rather, a woman can be president. Mrs. Chisolm you have a knowledge of the issues, you are bilingual, you articulate well, you become a catalyst. So thats how the states of minnesota and florida, thats two states. At that time, 1972 florida had less than a population. And minnesota had less than 3 population. Why those two states . I had been doing some public speaking and when i emerson this country everybody wanted to know, who Shirley Chisolm was. Whos this black women who is going to be the pursed person of her sex and raced enter the United States as a representative so i did a lot of speaking and they found out that i was very intelligent, fearless, had a knowledge of issues, not afraid, and they said we desire that you can bring about some change. Oh i was afraid because i remember saying to them we dont run for the presidency of this country on the basis of a model feeling or commitment you need money. I didnt ask for many, but amazingly with the three months time the state of florida and the state of missouri give 3000 dollars each. I got frightened when they called and said we raised money. I want to back out. I became afraid, because i never believe this would have happened. And it happened and i had to make my mind up. And once i said no you cant go back. You threw out a kind of in direct challenge to them and you cant do this with people so i made my mind up and i was good to make a big, and all hell broke loose when i announced who did you announce and to whom . In brooklyn new york. I stand before today as a candidate for the democratic nomination for the presidency of the United States of america. In the michael district, the 12th Congressional District i announced to the people in the community, and a number of friends that are aware of my announcement came in from cities particularly along the eastern seaboard, the church was jammed and the excitement that was there. And all of the enthusiasm that was there, that a black woman for the first time, in the United States of america c[ccnhd the atrocity and nerve to say that she wanted to become the president. I can see the picture now it was so exciting. But also beneath that excitement, the idea that a person other than a white male could and should be president , was part of the entire drum of why is it that in the United States of america only white males could be president . So here i was, a twofer. Not only a woman but a black person. So i was representing in a sense a black person, and a female person. So i campaigned in the beginning, was swamped with a lot of blacks and women around me and thats how it got off the ground but believe you me, it wasnt easy. After i made that announcement and i began going around the country it was a real league of nations held broke loose. The reason help broke loose is because how dare you . Have you forgotten that you are a woman, have you forgotten that you are black and you are the repress or . Whos telling you these things . A lot of the black males at the time had negative feelings about my announcement, and a lot of the white males. It was the males. It was the meals that gave me the fifth, i can remember so distinctly, so many incidents in which they felt i was going the wrong direction. Can you mention one incident and the one name . Its 20 years you know. I know its 20 years, but i know in terms of the black males, sir i dont want to call a name because there were so many of them had the feeling because they felt that if you want to have a black person enter the presidency it should be a black woman, it should be a blackmail. So that gets in the way and not only that the black mills were really enjoyed with me because theyre having this big conference here in indiana, this black conference where was the mayor and they were coming together to fight a black person to run for president. Shirley chisolm had jumped the gun and they felt that the shouldnt get our approval. The fact of the matter is i was very cognizant of the fact that i would never get their approval because they would feel that i was crazy, that i needed to be placed on each street jacket. So i to be cognizant of the fact that there were sentence citizens of the country that raise money to make the bid because they thought that i possess leadership qualities, i had a clear understanding of the issue. I was a fear in this woman and i was intelligent. That was all. But a lot of folks, thought i was black and i was a woman. How did the womens groups that existed at the time respond to your candidacy . It was half and half, some responded positively and have to not. But the amazing thing that shocked me was i think from about three years but the woman from the southern part of the country responded to my candidacy more sincerely, than the women in the north. I can tell you stories about what women in the south women in mississippi lost their jobs because the white male power structure cutter reminding them that Shirley Chisolm is a black woman. The men would respond she is a black woman but she has what it takes to bring about change. White women lost their jobs and parts of mississippi because they wouldnt pull back from my candidacy. In florida, when i landed in tallahassee, the airport was gm with white and black women. In the north i found in many instances that while that northern white women were seeing Shirley Chisolm from florida, a feminist leader. While they were giving me my beautiful rhetoric they were destroy me behind the scenes, so even today many of the white women in the north of my generation, nut the younger people they dont really know me. Theyre granddaughters people ask me, you were the first woman who happened to be block to make a serious bid for the presidency in terms of going about the country and participating, not the first woman to run for president but the first woman who traditionally did what you must do, not talking about some of the other woman who had run for president. They didnt do what i did they just it was just us and i said yes but i must always remind you that it was primarily the woman in the south that put me across and gosh, some of the people in new york got really angry but the truth is the truth. I was surprised, i was very very surprised by what happened to me in new york but its very true that i didnt make the bid for the presidency on the basis of new york, i made it on the basis of minnesotas who say good. How did your Campaign Play out . I know you campaigned in the primaries and you did go to the convention, take us through that process briefly. While i was campaigning, i campaigned in three states i think, while i campaigned there were three things that i met constantly. I met constantly the fact that black men and white men were very very low in attendance at the rallies, and the meetings were i was making appearances. That was very obvious to me. Second, i ran into divisions within the particular cities where i ran because i the black people in the white people particularly the feminists were actually having disagreements, because im a woman, they felt shes our, candidate we sponsored. Her the black candidates that oh shes black so shes one of. Us but in many cases didnt pay to bring the in so they were trying to jump on the bandwagon and the white women were like we brought her in so we can schedule. Her i just had to hide until the two got together and settled their disagreements. I will tell you very funny story. I remember when i went to tallahassee, all these cars in the airport to meet me, they must have been, maybe about 50 cars. White women, black women, a few black men, and it was exciting time, pedal their lack carson, everything and then the plane landed, and i got off the plant in with my two aides, the black community and the White Community rushed to to take me off to the rally and while they were taking me, while they were taking me to their car. Shes one of us, she is a sister, i found this tiny white man, i dont think he was even five foot tall and he was screaming and laughing and he had on this hat. Chisolm for president. It felt like he was in the world on his own and i went over to him and i said thank you so much. Can i get into your car and you take me to the and they will stop fighting at fussing and they will follow. And he said i dont have a number one car. I said does it move . He said yes. He was so excited. He got me into the car and off we went, the myth i got into his car all of the rockies, the outburst stop and they all jumped into the car, trying now to follow that car. I will never forget that as long as i live. How many delegate votes did you get in the convention . I got 158 confederate votes at the convention. It was amazing that mississippi, if i can remember, if its not exactly there its near there. I got exactly 12 votes from mississippi, i got 27 of the louisiana votes, ive got a large number ive got more votes from the south, and many of the persons that indicated to me said Shirley Chisolm go ahead make the run, youve got to have some change in america. If facts for change youre not shrinking, you certainly are not. But youve got to remember to go to the south. If i didnt go to the south i would have fallen completely flat on my face. Did you get primetime podium time at the convention . Oh yes, and the ones that jumped up and scoop the loudest because the delegation was sitting at the front. The alabamians delegation, and it was a strange thing because georges campaign through robert the year, 13 of us were running, governor lindsey in a whole bunch of. Us remember even florida, George Wallace would tell the folks if you cant vote for me in the primary, dont vote vote for those pointy headed liberals vote for Shirley Chisolm. People felt that i had entered the pack with George Wallace. Because of that i lost on florida and votes. I was beating john lindsey in the primary. John lindsey had a private meeting with me when in new york, he was mayor at the time. He said surely, were getting out the vote. He did everything to try to get me off of the i said john my time has come have to do this. I will never forget that as long as i lived. Of course into it wasnt as great as it used to be, after i refused to pull out of that race in florida. But i must tell the world that it was the south that really took me across, and many of my friends and people in new york are angry because they want the world to feel that because im a new yorker and i did come from new york, that they were the ones that pushed me out. Theyre the ones wanting nothing could be further from the truth. Whats your messed for the convention . My message for the convention was basically that the time has come. Being in america can no longer be the complicit, passive recipients of whatever our nation may decree for us. At the time its come that we must look at other americans who have the attributes of, leadership who have knowledge of the issues, to make a bid in a unequivocal manner for the presidency of the United States of america decided to accept this challenge and here i am today to his you. Will did you ever think you are on a short list to become the Vice President ial nominee . No i never fooled myself, people most of that oh she thinks shes going to be president. Look im fairly intelligent and i was smart enough to know i can be president. Somebody has to be a catalyst for change when you are attempting to bring out change in america and i always thought of myself as a catalyst for change. Were approaching 20 years anniversary for watergate and im wondering if during that year you followed the news reports, as 80 inside politician of sorts, did you see or detect or wonder about what leader came to be known as dirty tricks . Oh yes because i was the victim of donald out in california. In fact, the people of california called me. Donald he had circulated some information donald is who . Donald is one of the tricks trust in the nixon campaign, his job was to derail the candidacies of the candidates who were running, he said some awful things about humphrey and husky but look at what was said about Shirley Chisolm. Shirley chisolm had been released from a Mental Institution a few years ago and it is known that she rubs feces on the walls of the rooms in her home and the paper at home is yellow and crumpled. What device did he used to get that information out . Leaflets. How do you know that it was Donald Segretti . Because my friend in california sent me all the leaflets that were centered at that time Donald Segretti said he didnt do it but at the time it came out that he did it. There were other negligent and untruthful things that were said about me. There was that about others. The most slimy sleazy types of remarks, and my folks later he apologized to all of us. Personally . Not personally, but by the media. Newspapers. Do you think the tricks had any effect on your campaign . No, not really. Some other people what was Jesse Jackson doing at t