Tribune, tom brokaw of nbc, and brit hume of abc news. The importance of tonights debate is underscored by two facts. Both george bush and Michael Dukakis said their selections of a running mate would reveal a lot about themselves. And based on the history since world war ii, there is almost a 5050 chance that one of the two men here tonight will become president of the United States. The candidates are senator dan quayle, the republican nominee, and senator Lloyd Bentsen, the democratic nominee. [applause] Judy Woodruff for the next 90 minutes, we will be questioning the candidates following a format designed and agreed to by representatives of the two campaigns. However, there are no restrictions on the questions that my colleagues and i may ask this evening. By prior agreement between the two candidates, the first question goes to senator quayle, and you have two minutes to respond. Senator, you have been criticized, as we all know, for your decision to stay out of the vietnam war, for your poor academic record, but more troubling to some are some of the comments that have been made by people in your own party. Just last week, former secretary of state haig said that your pick was the dumbest call george bush could have made. [laughter] [applause] your leader in the senate, bob dole, said that a Better Qualified person could have been chosen. Other republicans have been far more critical in private. Why do you think that you have not made a more substantial impression on some of these people who have been able to observe you up close . Senator quayle the question goes to whether i am qualified to be Vice President , and in the case of a tragedy, whether im qualified to be president. Qualifications for the office of Vice President or president are not age alone. You must look at accomplishments, and you must look at experience. I have more experience than others that have sought the office of Vice President. Now lets look at qualifications, and lets look at the three biggest issues that are going to be confronting america in the next presidency. Those three issues are National Security and arms control, jobs and education, and the federal budget deficit. On each one of those issues, i have more experience than does the governor of massachusetts. In National Security and arms control, you have to understand the relationship between a ballistic missile, a warhead, what throwweight, what megatonnage is. You better understand about telemetry and encryption. And you better understand that you have to negotiate from a position of strength. These are important issues, because we want to have more arms control and arms reductions. In the area of jobs and education, i wrote the Job Training Partnership act, a bipartisan bill, a bill that has trained and employed over three million economically disadvantaged youth and adults in this country. On the area of the federal budget deficit, i have worked eight years on the Senate Budget committee. And i wish that the congress would give us the line item veto to help deal with that. And if qualifications alone are going to be the issue in this campaign, george bush has more qualifications than Michael Dukakis and Lloyd Bentsen combined. [applause] Judy Woodruff senator bentsen, im going to interrupt at this point and ask once again that the audience please keep your responses as quiet as possible. We know that many of you here are for one candidate or another. But you are simply taking time away from your candidate, and more likely than not, youll be causing the partisans for the other candidate to react again when their candidate speaks. So, please. Senator bentsen, you have one minute to respond. Senator bentsen this debate tonight is not about the qualifications for the vice presidency. The debate is whether or not dan quayle and Lloyd Bentsen are qualified to be president of the United States. Because, judy just as you have , said, that has happened too often in the past. And if that tragedy should occur, we have to step in there without any margin for error, without time for preparation, to that take over the responsibility for the biggest job in the world, that of running this great country of ours, to take over the awesome responsibility for commanding the Nuclear Weaponry that this country has. No, the debate tonight is a debate about the presidency itself, and a president ial decision that has to be made by you. The stakes cannot be higher. Could not be higher. Judy woodruff senator bentsen, a question for you, and you also have two minutes to respond. What bothers people is not so much your qualifications but youre split on policy with governor dukakis. He has said that he does not want a clone of himself, but you disagree with him on some major issues aid to the nicaraguan contras, the Death Penalty, gun control, among others. If you had to step into the presidency, whose agenda would you pursue, yours or his . Senator bentsen well, i am delighted to respond to that question, because we agree on so many things and the vast majority of the issues. We agree on the fact that we have to cut this deficit. And governor dukakis has been able to cut that deficit ten budgets in a row in the state of massachusetts, while he lowered the tax burden on their people from one of the highest to one of the lower in the United States. That is a major sense of achievement. And i admire that. And im just delighted to be on the ticket with him. Governor dukakis and i agreed that we ought to have a trade policy for this country, that weve seen this administration more than double the national debt, that theyve moved this country from the number one lender nation in the world to the number one debtor nation in the world under their administration, that they have not had a trade policy, that they have let trade be a handmaiden for their Foreign Policy objectives of the country, that this country has exported too many jobs and not enough products. And, as i worked to pass a trade bill through the United States senate, they threw roadblocks in the way every step of the way. But we passed a trade bill that has this premise that any country that has full access to our markets, were entitled to full access to their markets. Now, that means that were going to stand tough for america, and were going to protect those jobs, and were going to push american products, and were going to open up markets around the world. Well show leadership in that respect and turn this deficit and trade around. Around. It in trade thats the sort of thing that Michael Dukakis and i will do to bring about a better america for all of our people. Judy woodruff senator quayle, a minute to respond. Senator quayle as you notice, senator bentsen didnt tell you very much about what governor dukakis would do. Governor dukakis, one of the most liberal governors in the United States of america. The one thing he tried to point out about governor dukakis is that hes cut taxes. The fact of the matter is, senator bentsen, hes raised taxes five times. He just raised taxes this past last year. And thats why a lot of people refer to him as taxhike mike. Thats why they refer to the state of massachusetts as taxachusetts. Because every time theres a problem, the liberal governor from massachusetts raises taxes. I dont blame senator bentsen for not talking about governor Michael Dukakis. Hes talking more about his record. If i had to defend the liberal policies of governor Michael Dukakis, i wouldnt talk about it either. Judy woodruff john margolis, a question for senator bentsen. Jon margolis senator bentsen, you have claimed that Vice President bush and the republicans will raid the Social Security trust fund, and you have vowed to protect it. But as chairman of the Senate Finance committee, you must know that there is something to the argument of your fellow democrat bob strauss that some restraint on Social Security growth may be needed, or at least some decision to tax most Social Security benefits as regular income. In fact, you once voted for and spoke for a sixmonth delay on cost of living adjustment increases for Social Security. Senator, arent you and governor dukakis using this issue politically, rather than dealing with it responsibly . Senator bentsen well, i must say i hate to disappoint my good friend bob strauss, but we have a contract with the American People on Social Security. And Social Security is an issue where senator quayle voted eight times to cut the benefits on Social Security, where this administration came in and tried to cut the benefits, the minimum benefits, 122 a month for widows, for retirees, tried to cut the benefits for 62yearold retirees by 40 , tried to do an end run on Social Security when they first came in after promising not to cut it, to cut it by some 20 billion, and while we were working together to reform the Social Security system and to be certain that that money was going to be there for people and they retired at , that point, they tried a 40billion end run to cut Social Security. Now, the record is clear. And we saw Vice President bush fly back from the west coast to break a tie in the United States senate. He doesnt get to vote very often in the senate, but he made a special trip to come back and vote against a costofliving increase. Now, when you talk about Social Security, the people that are going to protect it are the democrats that brought forth that program. And i think its very important that we not see these kinds of end runs by this administration. When they talk about the fact that they are going to continue to cut this budget, i know too well what their track record is. And we should could and we should be concerned about that kind of an effort once again after the election is over. Judy woodruff senator quayle, your response . Senator quayle senator bentsen, you know that i did not vote to cut Social Security benefits eight times. What i have voted for and what senator bentsen has voted for is to delay the costofliving adjustments. Senator bentsen two times in the United States senate voted to delay the costofliving adjustment. The governor of massachusetts at a governors conference supported a resolution to delay the costofliving adjustment. And, john, you are right they use this for political advantage. What they try to do time and time again is to scare the old people of this country. Thats the politics of the past. In 1983, republicans and democrats dropped their political swords and in a bipartisan effort saved the Social Security system. Republicans and democrats banded together because we know that this program is not a republican program, its not a democrat program, its a program for older americans. And that program is actuarially sound to the turn of this century. Judy woodruff jon, a question for senator quayle. Jon margolis senator, since coming to the senate you have voted against Environmental Protection legislation about twothirds of the time. This includes votes against pesticide controls, the toxic waste superfund, and health and safety protection from nuclear wastes. Senator, do you consider yourself an environmentalist, and, if you do, how do you reconcile that with your voting record . Senator quayle i have a very strong record on the environment in the United States senate. [laughter] i have a record where i voted for the superfund legislation. I have a record where i voted against my president on the override of the clean water act. I have voted for the major pieces of environmental legislation that have come down and been voted on in the United States senate. This administration and i support this administration in its environmental efforts has moved in the area for the first time to deal with the ozone problem. We now have an international treaty, the treaty that is commonly referred to as the montreal treaty. For the first time, we are talking about the impact of co2 to the ozone layer. Thats progress with the environment. We are committed to the environment. I take my children hiking and fishing, walking in the woods, in the wilderness. Believe me, we have a commitment to preserving the environment. You bring up the environment, you cant help but think about the environmental policy of the governor of massachusetts. He talks about being an environmentalist. Let me tell you about his environmental policy. The Boston Harbor. The Boston Harbor, which is the dirtiest waterway in america, tons of raw sewage go in there each and every day. What has the governor of massachusetts done about that . Virtually nothing. And then he has the audacity to go down to new jersey and tell the people of new jersey that hes against ocean dumping. This is the same governor that applied for a license to dump massachusetts sewage waste off the coast of new jersey. Who has the environmental record . Who has the environmental interest . George bush and i do. Judy woodruff senator bentsen. Senator bentsen this late conversion is interesting to me. [laughter] i must say. [applause] when they talk about Boston Harbor and he says he hasnt done anything, the facts are he has a 6 billion Program Underway on waste treatment. And it was this administration, their administration, that cut out the money early on to be able to clean up water, and made it impossible to move ahead at that time on Boston Harbor. We are the authors, the democratic party, of clean air, of clean water, of the superfund. I am one who played a very major role in passing the superfund legislation. Every Environmental Organization that i know, every major one, has now endorsed the dukakisbentsen ticket. And i am one who has just received the environmental award in texas for the work ive done to clean up the bays, to clean up the water, off the coast of texas. No, i think we know well whos going to help clean up this environment. The record is there, the history is there. And dukakis and bentsen will be committed to that. Judy woodruff tom brokaw, a question for senator quayle. Tom brokaw thank you, judy. Senator quayle, theres been a lot of talk during the course of this campaign about family. It was a principal theme, as i recall, in your acceptance speech in new orleans. Tonight id like to ask you about the 65 million American Children who live with their families in poverty. Id like for you to describe to the audience the last time that you may have visited with one of those families personally and how you explain to that family your votes against the School Breakfast program, the school lunch program, and the expansion of the child immunization program. [applause] senator quayle i have met with those people, and i met with them in fort wayne, indiana, at a food bank. You may be surprised, tom, they didnt ask me those questions on those votes, because they were glad that i took time out of my schedule to go down and to talk about how we are going to get a food bank going and making sure that a food bank goes in fort wayne, indiana. And i have a very good record and a commitment to the poor, to those that dont have a family, that want to have a family. This administration, and a George Bush Administration, will be committed to eradicating poverty. Poverty hasnt gone up in this administration. It hasnt gone down much either, and that means we have a challenge ahead of us. But let me tell you something, what we have done for the poor. What we have done for the poor is that we in fact, the homeless bill, the mckinney act, which is the major piece of legislation that deals with homeless, the congress has cut the funding that the administration has recommended. The poor and the poverty, the biggest thing that we have done for poverty in america is the tax simplification act of 1986. Six million working poor families got off the payroll. Six Million People are off the taxpaying payrolls because of that tax reform, and they are keeping the tax money there. To help the poor, well have a commitment to the programs and those programs will go on. And we are spending more in Poverty Programs today than we were in 1981. That is a fact. The Poverty Program we are going to concentrate on is creating jobs and opportunities, so that everyone will have the opportunities that they want. Judy woodruff senator bentsen, your response. Senator bentsen i find that very interesting, because he has been of no help at all when it comes to passing the most major welfare reform bill in the history of our country, one where we are working very hard to see that people can get off welfare,