Us from history books as the great compromiser. During his 49year political career, clay served as secretary of state, speaker of the house, and as a u. S. Senator. And he was a contender, making sure president ial bids including the election of 1824. 1832 against Andrew Jackson, and 1844, when he ran against james k. Polk. Tonight we are on location at ashland. Henry clays home in lexington, kentucky. For the next 90 minutes, we will explore the life and legacy of this man. Unsuccessful in his long quest for the white house, yet having an outsized influence on American History. We are in henry clays parlor. Let me introduce you to jim klotter, 25 years now as kentucky state historian. Jim thanks for being with us. Glad to be here. Why henry clay . Why is he relevant to americans living in our time . Think a couple of counts. First of all, his famous counts, i would rather be right than be president , still speaks to us. Its a clarion call to people across whatever were during. Whether were in politics or Something Else, is to do the right things. He also said, you know, that in a sense that the politicians need to remember the country and sacrifice for the country. I think that is still something we need to remember, as well. The man known as the great compromiser. A man that forged compromises that not only kept the nation together but were constructive. Those kind of things i think are the things we need to remember about henry clay, as well as all the things that he did in his life. Again, a clarion call over and over to us, to say to us again and again that we can do a lot of things if we just do and try, as a selfmade man did, henry clay. Were going to try to fits 49 years of rich political history during a very complex and interesting time of American History into our program tonight. Lets start with basics of his biography, where and when was he born, and how did he get to kentucky . He was born in 1777, seventh child. His father died very young. Clays mother remarried to a younger man. Clay liked to think of himself as a selfmade man, a mill man, carrying corn to the mill, working to the bone. Came from poor ranks. But he came from a welltodo family. They had slaves. They werent that bad off. It was part of the persona that clay personified himself. From there, his family basically came to kentucky, leaving him in virginia when he was 14 years old to be on his own. From there, he was back in kentucky when he was 20 years old as a young lawyer, married well. The easiest way to get rich is to marry well, and he did that. This is state they were in today is an example of what he did with his start and with his promise. And he made himself into somebody that all americans knew. Whom did he marry . Lecretia clay, lecretia hartclay. The creature was from the heart family which was an early family in kentucky. She was a family in kentucky, also gave him entry into the political circles that would have been defied him. He also she brought with that marriage some money and they basically had the connections because her family knew a lot of people and he used those connections to move forward but once he got his foot in the door that he could open the door himself through his own skills and abilities. If henry clay were through time travel standing here today, what will we see . What did he look like . What did he sound like . Clay would have i dont think anybody would sit down with henry clay and not leave without liking henry clay. He was a man not a handsome man, everybody says he was ugly. They always commented about his large mouth. They said his mouth was so large he couldnt spit properly. He was a man who liked the ladies, as they said and somebody at the time said he could kiss them out of one side of his mouth while he was resting out of the other side of his mouth. But as soon as he opened the mouth a great oratory came out. He could charm you. He had that charisma that if there was a person of the opposite party that one time came to henry clays home and to a party that clay was doing and it was a room filled with people, a room bigger than this and the man said to this man from the other party, he said wouldnt you like to meet the famous mr. Clay . And this democrat said about the whig clay no, sir, no, sir, i do not choose to subject myself to the spell of his fascination. Because he knew that henry clay would suck him into his orbit if he just met henry clay because he had that personality, that charisma, that charm that anybody who met him would like him one on one. Was this a genetic gift or did he school himself to be an orator . Did he have a mentor . Where did he get this from . He worked at it he heard Patrick Henry speak in virginia and he was just amazed by the force of henrys oratory and he wanted to be like that. He worked at it. He talks about giving speeches to the cows in the field as practice and he came to kentucky as a lawyer, you almost had to convince your juries through the force of your words not necessarily the law itself so he developed it. But he was almost a selfmade orator, too, because over time he could turn on a minute and speak on the issue. It was impossible to challenge clay in a debate because he would get out on the spur of the moment and come up with the facts and figures and win the argument. John c. Calhoun once prepared a talk for two weeks and clay got up and demolished it instantly. Thats the kind of man clay was and had he been able to appear on television he could have really been a very effective politician. Of course at that time you didnt campaign for president , there was no radio so you had to that force of the oratory was lessened and only in congress would he have the full force of that. When weve been talking with historians and people here at ashland about him they keep telling us he was the equivalent of a rock star in his time. Everybody in the country knew him. Now, in a country without mass communication, how was it possible for everybody to know who henry clay was . Everyone politics was the sports of that time. It was the game that everybody followed. There were no organized sports as we know it, things like that. There wasnt any musical things except in the church so the politics and oratory, everybody wanted to follow that as closely as they could and the speeches of a clay or webster, young boys in school and girls would righties down and would practice them over and over again. They wanted to be like a henry clay. But he was like a rock star. He would be followed by adoring people. He would go into towns and theres an example of 100,000 people turning out to hear him speak in dayton, ohio, he had children named for him, steamboats named for him, everything named for him. He was a man people wanted to see to savor the excellence of henry clay. Politicians still talk about henry clay today. Lets listen into kentuckys senior senator Mitch Mcconnell referencing henry clay. Henry clay was the greatest statesman that my home state ever produced. He served the people as speaker other Kentucky House of representatives. Speaker of the United States house of representatives and of course was one of the greatest senators to walk through the capitol. He was also honored to receive the partys nomination for president three times, in 1824, 1832 and 1844. The essence of legislating in the senate as 100 view points are brought together to create one law is compromise, henry clay became known as the great compromiser by forging the compromise that would keep his Precious Union together clay did not compromise in the sense of forsaking his principles, rather his skill was to bring together disparate ideas and forge consensus among his colleagues. Thats a skill we could certainly use more of now. During the great debates we just went through this summer over the debt ceiling and the budget there was so much talk about compromise in washington, whether or not its a lost art. Talk to us in that context about henry clay as the great compromiser and what sort of skills he brought to bear there. Clay, if he wanted something to happen, would work very hard to make it happen. He would sit down with people, he would find out what they wanted, he would go to the other side, see what they would want and try to find some Common Ground somewhere in the middle. Theres a it cost him, though, because as they say about compromisers, theres a sign in the Attorney Generals Office in the 1960s that said blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall catch hell from both sides. And in a sense clay caught that problem from both sides and it hurt him politically, at the same time he felt he had to do this because the nation required it. The nation had been founded on compromise. The constitution is a compromise and the nation did not compromise on these issues it would tear itself apart and so clay had an urgency behind everything he did. He compromised some of his principles for the sake of the union in the 1833 compromise. He gave up his beloved tariff issues for the sake of keeping the union together and not having secessionists break off and fight a war against Andrew Jackson. But at the same time, the greater thing he would not compromise on was the union. He said at one time if anybody wants to know the key to my heart, the union is the key to my heart. That was the thing he would never compromise on. When were talking about echoes of today, the american system, which is something he promoted, had major component which is include tariffs, you just referenced, spending the money from the tariffs on building american infrastructure and then also the big debate over a National Bank. Were still discussing how effective these things are in todays economy. What was the country like then and what was the level of debate over issues such as the tariff and the National Bank . Very philosophical issues that were issues from the very start of the nation. They were still issues when henry clay came around, theyre still issues today. Do we have a strong Central Government or a strong State Government . These are the issues that clay spoke on, he thought a National Government should do things for the nation, the states could not accomplish these and he spoke out about that and people spoke against him for that and it hurt him in a lot of ways politically as well. But he felt like these roads, these canals, these internal improvements were necessary to tie the country together otherwise it would fragment into east, west, north, south. His comment was i know no north, no south, no east, no west. To him it was one country indivisible and these would be ways to keep it together. A tariff would protect american industry, he thought and allowed to grow. He didnt say a tariff had to be there all the time but a tariff would be there all the time but it would help american industry be strong so it could compete against britain. Then a bank of the United States, at a time the United States was being formed, hard money was the only legal currency. The government didnt print paper money, banks did but they could be weak banks and the money would go away so clay wanted to make central bank that would really we wouldnt have until the Federal Reserve system was set up in the 20th century and that bank of the United States became very controversial as well and hurt him politically when he supported that. He thought all of this was necessary for the good of the nation. Henry clay sounds like a pretty good guy. He was said to have a lot of enemies. And he had vices. What were his vices . You talk about the age we were in, those vices became more prominent as he aged. In his youth he was known as a person who liked to gamble. He said it was a good political tool. He could sit down when he was making a peace treaty with the british in the war of 1812 and sit across from the british and play poker with them and see how much they would like to bluff or how much they would call his bluff so he saw it as a tool in some ways. He loved to gamble as a lot of people did. He would lose huge amounts of money one night, win them back the next night. His wife lucretia, when somebody chided her about her husband being a man who liked to gamble so much she said oh, i dont know, he usually wins. So he did win a lot. But he liked the spirit of the gamble but as he got older he didnt do that as much. He liked to drink as most americans did at that time at a time when water was not safe to drink. He preferred wine but never got drunk. He enjoyed it. All those things were used against him by the moral side of america that thought that clay was a womanizer, a blasphemer, a duellist, and a drinker. So those would be used against him at different times in his life. It was much exaggerated. It became part of the stereotype of henry clay. Clay died in 1852 so the 50year career were talking about spans the first half of the 19th century in america, a great year many years full of formation of the nation and also sectionalism and the fights over slavery. We have so much to talk about and during this program we will be opening up our phone lines for your participation. Ill give you the phone numbers now if you want to get in the queue. It will be a little bit of time before we get to calls but if youre interested and anxious to do so you can get in line. If you live in mountain or pacific time zones, 2027370002. We welcome your questions, your comment, it makes the discussion richer. We want to also listen to the views of kentuckys junior senator rand paul about henry clay. Henry clays life is at best a mixed message. His comprimise was over slavery. One could argue he rose above all strife to keep the union together, to preserve the union, but one could argue he was morally wrong and that his decisions on slavery, to extend slavery, were decisions that may have even ultimately invited the war that came, that his compromises meant that during the 50 years of his legislative career he not only accepted slavery, but he accepted the slave trade. In the name of compromise henry clay was by most accounts not a cruel master but he was a master nonetheless of 48 slaves most of which he did not free during his lifetime and some of which he only freed belatedly 28 years after his death. He supported the fugitive slave law throughout his career. He compromised on the extension of slavery. When he was the speaker of the house, there was a vote on extending slavery into arkansas and the vote was 8888. He came down extraordinarily from the speakers chair to vote in favor of extending slavery into arkansas. Before we eulogize henry clay, we should acknowledge and appreciate the contrast with contemporaries who refused to compromise. William lloyd garrison toiled at a small abolitionist press for 30 years, refusing to compromise with clay, with clays desire to send the slaves back to africa. Garrison was beaten, chased by mobs and imprisoned for his principled stand. Frederick douglass travelled the country at the time. He was a free black man but he traveled at great personal risk throughout the countryside and he proved ultimately that he was the living, breathing example that intellect and leadership could come from a recently freed slave. And we are back and we are with another guest. Id like to introduce a history professor from the university of louisville and welcome to our discussion of henry clay. Before we get into the area which you have spent a lot of your scholarship which is slavery at that time period and henry clay, talk about the general sense of your impression. What are your views of this man . I think the image of him as a rock star and popular candidate, political figure, is very impressive. He is a lightning rod. He seems to get people up for or against him. He has the ability to inspire, and even on the abolitionist issues he takes more heat than people, senator who were actually more a john c. Calhoun, for instance. Clay is probably a lot more talked about, written about, focused upon than some of the more prominent political figures. Weve spent talking about his basics and havent devilled into his position about slavery. Explain what his philosophical positions were about slavery. Philosophically he was against the idea of slavery. For his time period he would have been considered extremely liberal and for a long time he was touted as an abolitionist, emancipationist. He did not believe in slavery but he also didnt think africanamericans could survive in america as citizens so the whole idea of the american Colonization Society, freedom outside the United States sort of became his platform that he stuck to throughout his presidency although he never im sorry, im making him president , throughout his political career. He never did deny the fact that africanamericans felt they shou have their freedom. He was just not willing to risk he knew the political damage antislavery could do to his politic career and to the country. He was a slaveholder, correct . He was a slaveholder and an antislavery man and that caused him great grief all his life because in the north he would be criticized as a slaveholder, in the south he was criticized for his antislavery views and had he taken one side or the other he might have been much better off as a politician. As Abraham Lincoln in the north did, got elected president with the northern votes but no southern votes and had clay done that, had he freed his slaves it may have helped him as a politician. And the fact that he wasnt willing to do it and the fact he was stuck to his emancipation ideas despite the criticism. So that says a lot. What do we know about the number of slaves he held here at ashland and how he treated them . He reported at the height of having 35. I think when he dies he still is holding slaves. He emancipates some, those that he most famous case is charlotte who is his servant in washington who doesnt want to return to kentucky when he wants to come back, and who stays. She takes him to court and loses. He also gets credit for freeing charles and the other slaves on the estate but in the long run hes a he buys slaves, too. He spends time at the market here in lexington purchasing slaves and is known for the quality of slaves that he purchases so, again, hes one of those people thats dual nature. Its one of those things that people used to talk about slavery in kentucky being the mildest but it didnt matter. It was still slavery and abolitionists came to kentucky and said people say slavery here is the mildest, theres still enough h